Open 820: The Siege of Aurelia — Game Over!

[catboi]

That wasn't implying a scumread on implosion, it was saying skitter is blatantly scum for how she reacted to my jump.

Ok and i think ur blatantly scum *for* the jump
What would u do if i went to the keep

I wouldn't be able to do much of anything, would I? Don't know why you'd ask. I definitely am not going to speculate on how I'd vote post-swap depending on what happened.

[skitter30]

I dont really get what you're saying/implying in that post

[catboi]

You still can't really formulate a coherent theory as to how I'd be advancing the scum win condition by doing this, but seem to want to cling to that read regardless. That's why I think you're scum - you're working from the endpoint of calling me scum and searching for ways to justify it rather than assessing why my play would be beneficial to scum in the slightest.

I think by contrast, Penguin's outright disdain for my play reads miles more authentic.

[catboi]

I dont really get what you're saying/implying in that post

I don't know, I'm not sure what you think I

could

do in response to you moving to the keep - I think that'd be a terrible play here for you as scum, so it'd be at least somewhat surprising, but I'm not really going to out a read that's contingent on you taking a particular action, that feels both silly and a bad idea.

[skitter30]

I dont know what the scum motivation is but, again, the fact that you keep relying on 'oh but why would scum do this' is scummy, as it feels like you're depending on the fact that scum wouldnt do this to be townread
It, again, sounds like you're scum who purposefully did this to play that card

Also i dont know why town would do that either

Like the whole thing doesnt make sense to me and i cabt really parse the motivation for it. But since you're acting like doing so should give you townpoints by virtue of the fact that scum wouldnt do it, it feels scummy and you did this on purpose to get townread as scum

Like you cant really explain why town-you wanted to do this, each time i ask you keep telling me that scum-you has no reason to do so, and this whole pov doesnt seem like its coming from a town motivation

[skitter30]

I dont really get what you're saying/implying in that post

I don't know, I'm not sure what you think I

could

do in response to you moving to the keep - I think that'd be a terrible play here for you as scum, so it'd be at least somewhat surprising, but I'm not really going to out a read that's contingent on you taking a particular action, that feels both silly and a bad idea.

I mean if you're town and planning on taking the vote there i'm p sure me going there would force you to vote t3 as u apparently think i'm scum
(Whicu for me would be a good outcome cuz i think t3 is town)

From your pov i'm not sure why the immediate reaction isnt just: i will vote t3

[catboi]

Okay, but I'm not getting voted, so, again, the idea that this is a scum gambit falls totally flat. I'm going to vote for who I think is town, hopefully I will be right, I will flip town and leave a legacy read that you should be voted no matter what.

My motivation here as town is pretty simple: I get to be the deciding vote at the keep, I get to control my own destiny, and I don't even have to convince anyone to crossvote for me, which is the most annoying part of being in 3p. If I sense that there's an active campaign to discredit me, why would I not want to be at the place where me being scumread is far less important than my ability to correctly identify who is town?

It doesn't particularly

matter

to me that I get townread here but you're so obviously trying to force-fit the read at this point, which is why I think you're scum.

[catboi]

I dont really get what you're saying/implying in that post

I don't know, I'm not sure what you think I

could

do in response to you moving to the keep - I think that'd be a terrible play here for you as scum, so it'd be at least somewhat surprising, but I'm not really going to out a read that's contingent on you taking a particular action, that feels both silly and a bad idea.

I mean if you're town and planning on taking the vote there i'm p sure me going there would force you to vote t3 as u apparently think i'm scum
(Whicu for me would be a good outcome cuz i think t3 is town)

From your pov i'm not sure why the immediate reaction isnt just: i will vote t3

Because there's still a swap in play? Obviously. I'm not going to lay out my exact thinking for the mafia to interfere with it. Last game Anastasia was very open that she'd vote for whoever of absinthe (town) and Briar (scum) was left at the keep, so it was easy for us to swap out absinthe with Infinity (a scumread of Anastasia). As such I have no desire to show my full hand to the scumteam this game.

[PenguinPower]

@mod: v/la through tomorrow

[skitter30]

I was p obviously talking abt a universe where you/me/t3 were still at the keep post-swap

[catboi]

I was p obviously talking abt a universe where you/me/t3 were still at the keep post-swap

I'm still not going to answer that.

[skitter30]

I feel like it should be a p obvious choice from ur pov but ok

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Keep

[skitter30]

Well i'm incredibly dubious the keep will have a good ending

[catboi]

Well i'm incredibly dubious the keep will have a good ending

based on...?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In theory having discussion and trying rto group townreads together at locations is a good way to play this, however, I can't help but worry the way it's going will lead people into confirmation bias and that sort of thing becomes very easy to exploit with the swap. I'm tempted to call kyouko's bluff about me and T3 right now, tbh.

This is exactly what scum would say if T3 is town btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and unwnd not going anywhere quickly in this game is probably just to not look the same way she did when she was scum last time, for anyone else who was in that game and saw her do it. From what I understand S_S wrote the setup so maybe he was mod in that game, and he is the connection to that game. If he is the only connection to that game, it is highly likely that scum!unwnd means town!S_S

See, you had me going with the unwnd scum theory because I thought it was plausible, and then you make this post where you make a hypothesis based on arbitrary assumptions that are untrue whilst not bothering to do the bare minimum of research to see that unwnd, S_S, Dunnstral, and me were all players in the previous run of this game, (and I have referred to seeing it from the other side), and so I think posts like this are just meant to look impressive in terms of looking solvey while actually being utterly hollow and worthless and showing a complete lack of thought.

or, or, or... you read my post, and see that I specify that I am uncertain - "if he is the only connection to that game." I have admittedly not looked at that game, because I said "if". You would know I have not looked at the game, because you were in the game and know that S_S is not the only connection

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was more curious about ssbm and dunn in that trio

Kinda wanto keep unwnd/catboi out of the keep

VOTE: keep

yeah you're just scum here

[catboi]

and unwnd not going anywhere quickly in this game is probably just to not look the same way she did when she was scum last time, for anyone else who was in that game and saw her do it. From what I understand S_S wrote the setup so maybe he was mod in that game, and he is the connection to that game. If he is the only connection to that game, it is highly likely that scum!unwnd means town!S_S

See, you had me going with the unwnd scum theory because I thought it was plausible, and then you make this post where you make a hypothesis based on arbitrary assumptions that are untrue whilst not bothering to do the bare minimum of research to see that unwnd, S_S, Dunnstral, and me were all players in the previous run of this game, (and I have referred to seeing it from the other side), and so I think posts like this are just meant to look impressive in terms of looking solvey while actually being utterly hollow and worthless and showing a complete lack of thought.

or, or, or... you read my post, and see that I specify that I am uncertain - "if he is the only connection to that game." I have admittedly not looked at that game, because I said "if". You would know I have not looked at the game, because you were in the game and know that S_S is not the only connection

I struggle to see the town motivation in making arbitrary theories based on easily disprovable assumptions. However, I think there's actually a fairly decent chance you might be town here regardless.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't know if Catboi does the same strategy twice. It could be a WIFOM play int that sense but for now

That felt oddly spiteful?

In a sense, yeah, it was a knee-jerk reactionary move but it is worth remembering that putting myself at the keep would be enitrely unoptimal and nonsensical as scum. I don't expect to be voted at the keep

and I absolutely do not care about that

.

I dont know but nothing ur saying feels townie, dislike that you're discrediting ssbm, and i've no idea what the town motivation for that was either

Shrug, I think her posts are remarkably hollow. I think it's easy to make a bunch of strategic posturing but none of it feels like an authentic attempt to gamesolve and people are crediting her for volume more than anything substantial. "Nothing feels townie" is vague, I have admittedly been closed off with my reads to this point but I haven't particularly had any desire to impress with my play so far.

When you say it's a knee-jerk reactionary move, it's really LAMIST - and then to say it's nonsensical to put yourself at keep is just bad. Keep is the easiest place for scum I think because

everyone

at Keep is kingmaker, because everyone votes themselves at keep until a town player is convinced that someone else is town. as scum at Keep, all you have to do is look town. You don't have to convince town that town is scum, like you have to at Gate and Wall. Imo it's easier to make yourself look town than it is to mislim town, so Keep is the ideal place for scum.

Also the fact that your immediate reaction is: oh this would have been so silly to do as scum (twice now)

Makes me feel like you're scum just playing that card

Also, i really, really dont think ssbm's posts are fake, and they feel like legitimate attenpts to gamesolve to me
It feels like she's thought quite a lot abt the optimal placements/strategy for town and is working to realize that vision

It also looks to me like catboi is just going with LAMIST and WIFOM yeah (inb4 ooh, buzzwords, so scary)

I think I want skitter in Gate with me at end of page 11, but in case skitter and unwnd are "bussing" catboi right now, I want unwnd in Keep with catboi so that they are forced to swap catboi or unwnd out if they are partnered. Still considering Peng for Gate too, need to find a good pairing though.

[unwnd]

I don't know why you think I'm bussing catboi, I think the last time I implied I read I thought he was town?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the person eho is most town (not you) should get to vote, and if ur scum you wont at all

Why would the person who is most town not simply want themself to get voted? This doesn't make a lick of sense. Of course, if I am scum there is no reason for me to vote,

but you already have my word that I will vote

, and if I go back on it I obviously won't get voted myself, which would guarantee a town win in the event I am scum.


So, again, I very much fail to see what your problem is supposed to be.

This is worthless, because at the time you vote, the Keep game ends. As scum, you can just say you're not sure yet, and the burden still falls on the other town to identify one another. Or, as scum, you can be swapped out so you don't have to follow through. As town, you can be swapped out to make it appear that you're scum that is trying to not follow through on your word here. So we can't put any stock in this.

[catboi]

I think the person eho is most town (not you) should get to vote, and if ur scum you wont at all

Why would the person who is most town not simply want themself to get voted? This doesn't make a lick of sense. Of course, if I am scum there is no reason for me to vote,

but you already have my word that I will vote

, and if I go back on it I obviously won't get voted myself, which would guarantee a town win in the event I am scum.


So, again, I very much fail to see what your problem is supposed to be.

This is worthless, because at the time you vote, the Keep game ends. As scum, you can just say you're not sure yet, and the burden still falls on the other town to identify one another. Or, as scum, you can be swapped out so you don't have to follow through. As town, you can be swapped out to make it appear that you're scum that is trying to not follow through on your word here. So we can't put any stock in this.

Lol. Okay. If I'm at the keep and withhold my vote as scum, I still lose though, so why the concern trolling?

[skitter30]

How do you lose in that instance

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't know why you think I'm bussing catboi, I think the last time I implied I read I thought he was town?

256 looks like a partner interaction - to me it reads like you think he is posting in a spiteful way, which is more likely scum than town imo. Since it looks like a partner interaction and it looks like you imply he is scummy for being spiteful, I see it as "bussing", in quotations, because we aren't actually voting anyone out yet. I am wary that you are trying to make yourself appear to not be partnered with him because you 2 are my top 2 scumreads right now. Skitter seems to also SR catboi though, so if I want skitter in Gate I feel the need to balance it with you in Keep so that if both of you are distancing from catboi, scum don't end up with 1-1-1.

pedit: you don't lose until town identifies each other. What if one town decides the other is scum and votes you by POE, then scum!you wins