Open 820: The Siege of Aurelia — Game Over!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

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[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: theatre

I have two scumreads now I think

I know I'm being vague but it will come to fruition, eventually

I have two scumreads now I think

I know I'm being vague but it will come to fruition, eventually

Now I'm 1 name away from having a day 1 hero solve

I have two scumreads now I think

I know I'm being vague but it will come to fruition, eventually

Now I'm 1 name away from having a day 1 hero solve

I'm afraid of saying mine honestly

I have two scumreads now I think

I know I'm being vague but it will come to fruition, eventually

Now I'm 1 name away from having a day 1 hero solve

I'm afraid of saying mine honestly

Understandable.

To be clear, I have 1 scumread and 3 names I feel unresolved on - one of those is obviously something_smart, who hasn't had enough input for me to have a read. If I can get one of those 3 unknown reads as town I'd feel comfy. Some of that probably gets resolved when my move to day 2, though.

HURT: unwnd to send them to Keep

[unwnd]

If Catboi/Skitter had any other two different players I would probably say it's not manufactured. I know them both to some extent however and I think they understand the necessity to interact with one another. Catboi's kneejerk Keep vote can only still be described as spiteful. It confuses me a bit as well. That spitefulness in itself seemed to come from a town insistence where he knows he can win out in the end. I don't feel like Catboi is someone who enjoys the notoriety to speak. I don't think it's outside his range to be daring but. Even if it happened some odd months ago I don't see the point in him trying the same strategy we did previously? He knows I'm in the game as well so I don't know if he disrespects me that much to believe I wouldn't raise my eyebrow to it.

When it comes to Skitter I don't think I have a sensitivity quite yet to her play even if I've been scum with her before. I think even in adversity Skitter is pretty good at bottling up her emotions, but maybe it's just the way she types. Reading back on each other Skitter says provokes but in my mind I'm just reading it like she's straight-faced and going through the motions. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe tone is a reasonable way of reading her and I don't think her reaction is as striking as catboi's.

So I'm going to flip this around and ask both of you something--

Catboi, what do you think of Skitter coming at you? I believe you know regardless of your alignment that what you did was anti-town. You justify this however and I don't need you to explain it to me. However, I think Skitter right now

knows

what you did was anti-town and is pushing you for it. Do you think she's just trying to build a narrative or is she just confused; You claim that you know you're town and can prove it.

Skitter, if what Catboi did was anti-town do you think he'd let himself do such? I mean this as scum. My own bias tells me right now no. Catboi to me is not someone who enjoys making anti-town plays, especially not this early as scum. He wants to build trust and make sure he has wriggle room. He's effectively put the spotlight on himself. I don't see the purpose of doing so early.

[catboi]

How do you lose in that instance

...because one of the townies just votes the other, in that instance? Like, this isn't at all hard to grasp and you seem committed to an almost willful misunderstanding of how the keep operates at this point. If I'm kept at the keep, I set a deadline for myself to vote, if I don't follow through then one of the other two should vote for the other. As scum, there is no plausible way for me to be victorious in this instance. I'm town though and so it'll fall on me to decide correctly.

If scum want to burn their swap to take me out of the keep, that seems like a foolish and unoptimal move, so I'm fine with that.

[catboi]

pedit: you don't lose until town identifies each other. What if one town decides the other is scum and votes you by POE, then scum!you wins

Do you actually think that is remotely likely based on your reading of the game?

[unwnd]

I don't know why you think I'm bussing catboi, I think the last time I implied I read I thought he was town?

256 looks like a partner interaction - to me it reads like you think he is posting in a spiteful way, which is more likely scum than town imo. Since it looks like a partner interaction and it looks like you imply he is scummy for being spiteful, I see it as "bussing", in quotations, because we aren't actually voting anyone out yet. I am wary that you are trying to make yourself appear to not be partnered with him because you 2 are my top 2 scumreads right now. Skitter seems to also SR catboi though, so if I want skitter in Gate I feel the need to balance it with you in Keep so that if both of you are distancing from catboi, scum don't end up with 1-1-1.

pedit: you don't lose until town identifies each other. What if one town decides the other is scum and votes you by POE, then scum!you wins

No, if you read my last post you can see I still think he's town and think his spitefulness comes from a good place.

[T3]

VOTE: Keep

WHY.
Why .-.
So I don't think Dunn is scum with catboi because then one of Dunn/catboi would have to swap.

[catboi]

Catboi, what do you think of Skitter coming at you? I believe you know regardless of your alignment that what you did was anti-town. You justify this however and I don't need you to explain it to me. However, I think Skitter right now knows what you did was anti-town and is pushing you for it. Do you think she's just trying to build a narrative or is she just confused; You claim that you know you're town and can prove it.

I think the

way

she came after me after I made my move was incredibly scummy and shifted my view of the game dramatically, yes. I don't inherently have a problem with someone expressing dislike for what I did but the way she's gone about it feels more like someone who

wants

to scumread me and trying to find reasons to do so, but she went through attacks that were illogical/easily refuted. In my view, if someone were to

truly

believe I am scum, than my jump to the keep is nothing short of a concession. But instead she keeps trying to stoke paranoia around me, to no productive end. I don't believe it's a real thought process. I could break down her immediate posts in reaction to my move last night if you want, I guess.

[skitter30]

Lol. Okay. If I'm at the keep and withhold my vote as scum, I still lose though, so why the concern trolling?

You can be all indecisive and refuse to commit
I dint think that alone will immediately cause town to vote town

Idk how you get from 'not immediately voting' to 'scum-me loses' at this stage

We can always quasi-leash you and say something like if you dont vote within a day or something one of the other 2 should vote the third

But without that being set up (and to my knowledge it hadnt been) you could hem and haw for quite a long time without losing

[unwnd]

I don't need that but can see where you're coming from. You already know right now in your h2h I'm more favorable of you lol

I just don't know If I'm..quite sold on Skitter being scum.

[T3]

Okay, but I'm not getting voted, so, again, the idea that this is a scum gambit falls totally flat. I'm going to vote for who I think is town, hopefully I will be right, I will flip town and leave a legacy read that you should be voted no matter what.

My motivation here as town is pretty simple: I get to be the deciding vote at the keep, I get to control my own destiny, and I don't even have to convince anyone to crossvote for me, which is the most annoying part of being in 3p. If I sense that there's an active campaign to discredit me, why would I not want to be at the place where me being scumread is far less important than my ability to correctly identify who is town?

It doesn't particularly

matter

to me that I get townread here but you're so obviously trying to force-fit the read at this point, which is why I think you're scum.

This makes sense tbh

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay, but I'm not getting voted, so, again, the idea that this is a scum gambit falls totally flat. I'm going to vote for who I think is town, hopefully I will be right, I will flip town and leave a legacy read that you should be voted no matter what.

My motivation here as town is pretty simple: I get to be the deciding vote at the keep, I get to control my own destiny, and I don't even have to convince anyone to crossvote for me, which is the most annoying part of being in 3p. If I sense that there's an active campaign to discredit me, why would I not want to be at the place where me being scumread is far less important than my ability to correctly identify who is town?

It doesn't particularly

matter

to me that I get townread here but you're so obviously trying to force-fit the read at this point, which is why I think you're scum.

oh damn keep is hammered... but now that it's hammered with 2 low activity players, if they're both town (T3 and Dunnstral), it will be easy for scum to swap scum!catboi out for a deepwolf if they can get 1-1-1, and get that deepwolf to be TRed. I think now what we want is the consensus scumreads in Wall so that if we get 2/3 there, scum!catboi is forced to stay in keep, and scum has to swap a Wall-Scum for a Gate-Town.

Off the top of my head, Peng and Skitter in Gate, Implosion, unwnd, and S_S in Wall. Does that sound like a good formation? @Implosion, if you're town, are you comfortable with me-Peng-skitter?

[skitter30]

When it comes to Skitter I don't think I have a sensitivity quite yet to her play even if I've been scum with her before. I think even in adversity Skitter is pretty good at bottling up her emotions, but maybe it's just the way she types. Reading back on each other Skitter says provokes but in my mind I'm just reading it like she's straight-faced and going through the motions. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe tone is a reasonable way of reading her and I don't think her reaction is as striking as catboi's.

So I'm going to flip this around and ask both of you something--

Catboi, what do you think of Skitter coming at you? I believe you know regardless of your alignment that what you did was anti-town. You justify this however and I don't need you to explain it to me. However, I think Skitter right now knows what you did was anti-town and is pushing you for it. Do you think she's just trying to build a narrative or is she just confused; You claim that you know you're town and can prove it.

Skitter, if what Catboi did was anti-town do you think he'd let himself do such? I mean this as scum. My own bias tells me right now no. Catboi to me is not someone who enjoys making anti-town plays, especially not this early as scum. He wants to build trust and make sure he has wriggle room. He's effectively put the spotlight on himself. I don't see the purpose of doing so early.

- when were we scum together >.>
- it apparently worked last time, idk why he wouldnt try that again
- i'm baffled why he would do this as town either
- he's kinda losing trust by taking this tactic, idk how this is gonna help him build trust
- your interactions with him are very suspect and ngl on some level this reads like you defending a partner

[unwnd]

To add onto my own #359

I genuinely see it as either both of you distancing as scum or neither of you being scum. I don't think Skitter makes sense in my worldview but hey

[catboi]

VOTE: Keep

WHY.
Why .-.
So I don't think Dunn is scum with catboi because then one of Dunn/catboi would have to swap.

Dunn made a surprise move like that last game as town, so it's not entirely out of his town range. I wouldn't say his involvement this game has been necessarily as protown as the last, but as I was on the other team that time, my view of the game is somewhat colored by that. If I had to guess, though, I would say that play is more likely to come from him as town because I don't see what he gains from it as scum.

[catboi]

Okay, but I'm not getting voted, so, again, the idea that this is a scum gambit falls totally flat. I'm going to vote for who I think is town, hopefully I will be right, I will flip town and leave a legacy read that you should be voted no matter what.

My motivation here as town is pretty simple: I get to be the deciding vote at the keep, I get to control my own destiny, and I don't even have to convince anyone to crossvote for me, which is the most annoying part of being in 3p. If I sense that there's an active campaign to discredit me, why would I not want to be at the place where me being scumread is far less important than my ability to correctly identify who is town?

It doesn't particularly

matter

to me that I get townread here but you're so obviously trying to force-fit the read at this point, which is why I think you're scum.

oh damn keep is hammered... but now that it's hammered with 2 low activity players, if they're both town (T3 and Dunnstral), it will be easy for scum to swap scum!catboi out for a deepwolf if they can get 1-1-1, and get that deepwolf to be TRed. I think now what we want is the consensus scumreads in Wall so that if we get 2/3 there, scum!catboi is forced to stay in keep, and scum has to swap a Wall-Scum for a Gate-Town.

Off the top of my head, Peng and Skitter in Gate, Implosion, unwnd, and S_S in Wall. Does that sound like a good formation? @Implosion, if you're town, are you comfortable with me-Peng-skitter?

T3 has the most posts in the game. What the

fuck

are you talking about?

[unwnd]

When it comes to Skitter I don't think I have a sensitivity quite yet to her play even if I've been scum with her before. I think even in adversity Skitter is pretty good at bottling up her emotions, but maybe it's just the way she types. Reading back on each other Skitter says provokes but in my mind I'm just reading it like she's straight-faced and going through the motions. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe tone is a reasonable way of reading her and I don't think her reaction is as striking as catboi's.

So I'm going to flip this around and ask both of you something--

Catboi, what do you think of Skitter coming at you? I believe you know regardless of your alignment that what you did was anti-town. You justify this however and I don't need you to explain it to me. However, I think Skitter right now knows what you did was anti-town and is pushing you for it. Do you think she's just trying to build a narrative or is she just confused; You claim that you know you're town and can prove it.

Skitter, if what Catboi did was anti-town do you think he'd let himself do such? I mean this as scum. My own bias tells me right now no. Catboi to me is not someone who enjoys making anti-town plays, especially not this early as scum. He wants to build trust and make sure he has wriggle room. He's effectively put the spotlight on himself. I don't see the purpose of doing so early.

- when were we scum together >.>
- it apparently worked last time, idk why he wouldnt try that again
- i'm baffled why he would do this as town either
- he's kinda losing trust by taking this tactic, idk how this is gonna help him build trust
- your interactions with him are very suspect and ngl on some level this reads like you defending a partner

- That one game where I was a hydra with pooks
- It barely worked. I'd even say it only worked due to the strength of the individuals. The only way I could see Catboi doing what he did (as scum) is if he had competent teammates who would support him even if it failed.
- I don't get it either? That's why I think it's a situation with Catboi doesn't GAF and is doing what he wants. Not very in line of what I typically see from Catboi as scum, which is far more methodical.
- I wouldn't be that brazen after literally being his partner in the last one.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

pedit: you don't lose until town identifies each other. What if one town decides the other is scum and votes you by POE, then scum!you wins

Do you actually think that is remotely likely based on your reading of the game?

if scum can achieve 1-1-1 it's possible for you to bring a sympathetic townie into keep, yes

[skitter30]

I think dunn's probably town (esp if catboi is scum)
But even so i dislike that he did that
I like ssbm's plan to herd scum to the wall

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't know why you think I'm bussing catboi, I think the last time I implied I read I thought he was town?

256 looks like a partner interaction - to me it reads like you think he is posting in a spiteful way, which is more likely scum than town imo. Since it looks like a partner interaction and it looks like you imply he is scummy for being spiteful, I see it as "bussing", in quotations, because we aren't actually voting anyone out yet. I am wary that you are trying to make yourself appear to not be partnered with him because you 2 are my top 2 scumreads right now. Skitter seems to also SR catboi though, so if I want skitter in Gate I feel the need to balance it with you in Keep so that if both of you are distancing from catboi, scum don't end up with 1-1-1.

pedit: you don't lose until town identifies each other. What if one town decides the other is scum and votes you by POE, then scum!you wins

No, if you read my last post you can see I still think he's town and think his spitefulness comes from a good place.

I see that now that I've read further, but I draw a different conclusion from your observation of the spitefulness than you did

[unwnd]

I want to do something daring myself but I don't know if it would actually feed into scum's plans lol

[unwnd]

I don't know why you think I'm bussing catboi, I think the last time I implied I read I thought he was town?

256 looks like a partner interaction - to me it reads like you think he is posting in a spiteful way, which is more likely scum than town imo. Since it looks like a partner interaction and it looks like you imply he is scummy for being spiteful, I see it as "bussing", in quotations, because we aren't actually voting anyone out yet. I am wary that you are trying to make yourself appear to not be partnered with him because you 2 are my top 2 scumreads right now. Skitter seems to also SR catboi though, so if I want skitter in Gate I feel the need to balance it with you in Keep so that if both of you are distancing from catboi, scum don't end up with 1-1-1.

pedit: you don't lose until town identifies each other. What if one town decides the other is scum and votes you by POE, then scum!you wins

No, if you read my last post you can see I still think he's town and think his spitefulness comes from a good place.

I see that now that I've read further, but I draw a different conclusion from your observation of the spitefulness than you did

What conclusion would that be?

[catboi]

I legitimately cannot tell at this point if kyouko's warped view of the game is complete blinkered town obliviousness or scum that is simply not actually reading the game. I don't feel like skitter's defense of her was partnery but it's hard to wrap my head around.

[skitter30]

@unwnd it was a spiteful and emotinal action
Honestly i'm not sure how much he thought abt it before doing it as either alignment, and i think the actual act itself is incomprehensible and i have a hard time reading into it

If he is willing to set a deadline by which he must vote or have the other players in the keep vote each other i am willing to call him town (albeit making rather anti-town choices)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe swap skitter for implosion...

skitter-unwnd-S_S at wall, implosion-Peng at Gate. I think Peng comes to gate for sure, but I'm not sure who should be with him.