Open 820: The Siege of Aurelia — Game Over!

[unwnd]

I think Kyouko either loses this game for town or I am fooled by her fake stubborness.

I think the former is, regrettably, far more likely.

You changed your mind with her recent posting? Last I remember you thought it was fake world scum

[skitter30]

That's not how i read that, but ok
I'm not entirely opposed to that

Pedit i agree that we should get stuff from ss but not sure he's poe scum

[unwnd]

Holding you to not hammer then, because I agree I want more people to chime in

VOTE: Gate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I legitimately cannot tell at this point if kyouko's warped view of the game is complete blinkered town obliviousness or scum that is simply not actually reading the game. I don't feel like skitter's defense of her was partnery but it's hard to wrap my head around.

This is what scum does to me btw, seen it often. They don't engage because it's hard to argue with me for a prolonged period, and eventually they resort to discrediting me or ignoring me. Guess here we're going with gaslighting

1. Don't use 'gaslighting' in a game, thanks.
2. It is an easily verifiable fact that T3 has the most posts in the game and is generally seen by most as townie. I can't engage with someone who tells me the sky is green, because on a basic level they are wrong. Your fretting over me being at the keep is nonsensical because it contravenes basic facts about this game. When those are in dispute, what am I to do? I don't expect any amount of reasoning to actually get through to you at this point even if you are town. Hopefully that isn't relevant, regardless.

1. If you are scum, what you are doing is, by definition, gaslighting. You are saying my view of the game is warped - and if you are scum, it is not warped, but by telling me it is warped, you sow doubt in my own mind about my view of the game. If you are scum, I am being gaslit, and I will use that term to describe it unless dannflor has a problem with it.
2. What does T3 have to do with the post you're replying to?

[skitter30]

Ugh i'm having paranoid thoughts of like unwnd/ssbm
I think we may have just lost the potential for 2/1 at the wall

[catboi]

I think Kyouko either loses this game for town or I am fooled by her fake stubborness.

I think the former is, regrettably, far more likely.

You changed your mind with her recent posting? Last I remember you thought it was fake world scum

I think it tipped me more to the town side but I was always there primarily because I think skitter is a much stronger scumread for me (and if we're going for hail mary scumreads, the skitter/implo interactions on page 4 have a decent chance of being scum/scum). I could say more about why I think it's town arrogance but they would not be very nice words.

[catboi]

I legitimately cannot tell at this point if kyouko's warped view of the game is complete blinkered town obliviousness or scum that is simply not actually reading the game. I don't feel like skitter's defense of her was partnery but it's hard to wrap my head around.

This is what scum does to me btw, seen it often. They don't engage because it's hard to argue with me for a prolonged period, and eventually they resort to discrediting me or ignoring me. Guess here we're going with gaslighting

1. Don't use 'gaslighting' in a game, thanks.
2. It is an easily verifiable fact that T3 has the most posts in the game and is generally seen by most as townie. I can't engage with someone who tells me the sky is green, because on a basic level they are wrong. Your fretting over me being at the keep is nonsensical because it contravenes basic facts about this game. When those are in dispute, what am I to do? I don't expect any amount of reasoning to actually get through to you at this point even if you are town. Hopefully that isn't relevant, regardless.

1. If you are scum, what you are doing is, by definition, gaslighting. You are saying my view of the game is warped - and if you are scum, it is not warped, but by telling me it is warped, you sow doubt in my own mind about my view of the game. If you are scum, I am being gaslit, and I will use that term to describe it unless dannflor has a problem with it.
2. What does T3 have to do with the post you're replying to?

Your view of the game is warped because you are unaware of basic facts like how T3 is active and generally townread. It has little to do with your read of me. It's problematic because I would expect, I would hope that a town player would actually be paying enough attention to know these things, and yet you persist in maintaining that view even when I tell you it is untrue.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We have lost the 2/1 at the wall with unwnd I think. We can still 2/1 at Gate/Keep though if we can get consensus town into Wall. I think at this point, the rest of the game should vote on who should hammer gate. Right now I would put skitter at gate with unwnd and I. In fact, skitter, if you are paranoid of me and unwnd, then from town!skitter POV, you coming to Gate achieves 2/1:

town!skitter
scum!unwnd
scum!kyouko

So my vote for who should be hammering Gate is skitter. But hammering Gate now should end the day because the rest are forced to Keep, so nobody should actually hammer yet, because S_S is gone.

pedit: I've been TRing T3 for a while now, just haven't said it yet, that's why my interactions with him slowed down. I also think you spewed he and Dunn are town so Keep is p much autowin regardless of the swap

[catboi]

The hesitance tells me the skitter/implo/s_s herosolve is probably off, but the balking assuredly feels tactical in some way.

[skitter30]

Well its a paranoid thought but i dont think *too* likely
I'll hold off but yeah i would want gate and i'm incredibly suspicious of both unwnd and catboi

[catboi]

pedit: I've been TRing T3 for a while now, just haven't said it yet, that's why my interactions with him slowed down. I also think you spewed he and Dunn are town so Keep is p much autowin regardless of the swap

So if that's the case, why the panicked concern trolling over my move?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: concern trolling

I think the person eho is most town (not you) should get to vote, and if ur scum you wont at all

Why would the person who is most town not simply want themself to get voted? This doesn't make a lick of sense. Of course, if I am scum there is no reason for me to vote,

but you already have my word that I will vote

, and if I go back on it I obviously won't get voted myself, which would guarantee a town win in the event I am scum.


So, again, I very much fail to see what your problem is supposed to be.

This is worthless, because at the time you vote, the Keep game ends. As scum, you can just say you're not sure yet, and the burden still falls on the other town to identify one another. Or, as scum, you can be swapped out so you don't have to follow through. As town, you can be swapped out to make it appear that you're scum that is trying to not follow through on your word here. So we can't put any stock in this.

Lol. Okay. If I'm at the keep and withhold my vote as scum, I still lose though, so why the concern trolling?

pedit: I've been TRing T3 for a while now, just haven't said it yet, that's why my interactions with him slowed down. I also think you spewed he and Dunn are town so Keep is p much autowin regardless of the swap

So if that's the case, why the panicked concern trolling over my move?

First of all, my post that you say is concern trolling is not panicked - I would be interested in hearing why you think it was panicked.

I again do not understand how this ties to my read on T3. If you did want to make a connection, the implication, if there were no swap at keep, would be that I TR T3 based on my post that you identified as "concern trolling." Because in that post, I am saying your word means nothing because you can just wait to vote until town identifies each other, or thinks the other one is scum. In a later post, I clarified that if that happens, you would win, because you responded to my post saying that as scum, you would just lose there.

[catboi]

First of all, my post that you say is concern trolling is not panicked - I would be interested in hearing why you think it was panicked.

I again do not understand how this ties to my read on T3. If you did want to make a connection, the implication, if there were no swap at keep, would be that I TR T3 based on my post that you identified as "concern trolling." Because in that post, I am saying your word means nothing because you can just wait to vote until town identifies each other, or thinks the other one is scum. In a later post, I clarified that if that happens, you would win, because you responded to my post saying that as scum, you would just lose there.

that post + this one below have you fretting over some far-out scenarios where this is a manipulation by scum-me to try to win the keep, all of which are fairly unlikely and betray a lack of gamestate awareness.

oh damn keep is hammered... but now that it's hammered with 2 low activity players, if they're both town (T3 and Dunnstral), it will be easy for scum to swap scum!catboi out for a deepwolf if they can get 1-1-1, and get that deepwolf to be TRed. I think now what we want is the consensus scumreads in Wall so that if we get 2/3 there, scum!catboi is forced to stay in keep, and scum has to swap a Wall-Scum for a Gate-Town.

I just don't see why you bother imagining this nonsense when I've already pledged to be the first vote at the keep, and were I to go back on that, I lose. It's incredibly simple to grasp yet you insist on fearmongering.

Truthfully, I think further arguing between us is going to be supremely unproductive. I'm town and will flip as such soon enough, I can only hope it breaks you out of the world you've put yourself in.

[T3]

Okay, but I'm not getting voted, so, again, the idea that this is a scum gambit falls totally flat. I'm going to vote for who I think is town, hopefully I will be right, I will flip town and leave a legacy read that you should be voted no matter what.

My motivation here as town is pretty simple: I get to be the deciding vote at the keep, I get to control my own destiny, and I don't even have to convince anyone to crossvote for me, which is the most annoying part of being in 3p. If I sense that there's an active campaign to discredit me, why would I not want to be at the place where me being scumread is far less important than my ability to correctly identify who is town?

It doesn't particularly

matter

to me that I get townread here but you're so obviously trying to force-fit the read at this point, which is why I think you're scum.

oh damn keep is hammered... but now that it's hammered with 2 low activity players, if they're both town (T3 and Dunnstral), it will be easy for scum to swap scum!catboi out for a deepwolf if they can get 1-1-1, and get that deepwolf to be TRed. I think now what we want is the consensus scumreads in Wall so that if we get 2/3 there, scum!catboi is forced to stay in keep, and scum has to swap a Wall-Scum for a Gate-Town.

Off the top of my head, Peng and Skitter in Gate, Implosion, unwnd, and S_S in Wall. Does that sound like a good formation? @Implosion, if you're town, are you comfortable with me-Peng-skitter?

T3 has the most posts in the game. What the

fuck

are you talking about?

I think she has the perception that I hard lurk. I used to.

[T3]

SS is basically just PoE. I would probably try to force him into whatever room because on the off chance he's scum it should be apparently obvious when he returns. And I also think that we would take SS more into account when deciding on mech stuff than other players and if he's scum he could possibly force us into a subuptimal position.p

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SS is basically just PoE. I would probably try to force him into whatever room because on the off chance he's scum it should be apparently obvious when he returns. And I also think that we would take SS more into account when deciding on mech stuff than other players and if he's scum he could possibly force us into a subuptimal position.p

S_S is PoE scum for you? what's your PoE of scum rn?

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

[T3]

SS is basically just PoE. I would probably try to force him into whatever room because on the off chance he's scum it should be apparently obvious when he returns. And I also think that we would take SS more into account when deciding on mech stuff than other players and if he's scum he could possibly force us into a subuptimal position.p

S_S is PoE scum for you? what's your PoE of scum rn?

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

Not really PoE scum, he just hasn't done anything towny.

[catboi]

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

Because I'm not sure what his angle would be there. Does he expect to be the one who gets voted after lowposting and making an unexpected hammer on the keep? It seems doubtful, even in a world where I'm correctly townreading T3 and he gets taken out of the Keep. Of course, saying I can't see any scum motivation there is probably an overreach - there are scenarios where I can see a tactical benefit to scum wanting to have 1 member at the keep. But I'm sure he'll have an explanation that we won't hear until after the locations are finalized.

SS is basically just PoE. I would probably try to force him into whatever room because on the off chance he's scum it should be apparently obvious when he returns. And I also think that we would take SS more into account when deciding on mech stuff than other players and if he's scum he could possibly force us into a subuptimal position.p

S_S is PoE scum for you? what's your PoE of scum rn?

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

Not really PoE scum, he just hasn't done anything towny.

I mean, he hasn't done anything at all, he's been V/LA since the game started. I personally feel that enough people have been towny in some way that I feel there is a decent chance he is scum, though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SS is basically just PoE. I would probably try to force him into whatever room because on the off chance he's scum it should be apparently obvious when he returns. And I also think that we would take SS more into account when deciding on mech stuff than other players and if he's scum he could possibly force us into a subuptimal position.p

S_S is PoE scum for you? what's your PoE of scum rn?

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

Not really PoE scum, he just hasn't done anything towny.

Who else hasn't done anything towny?

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

Because I'm not sure what his angle would be there. Does he expect to be the one who gets voted after lowposting and making an unexpected hammer on the keep? It seems doubtful, even in a world where I'm correctly townreading T3 and he gets taken out of the Keep. Of course, saying I can't see any scum motivation there is probably an overreach - there are scenarios where I can see a tactical benefit to scum wanting to have 1 member at the keep. But I'm sure he'll have an explanation that we won't hear until after the locations are finalized.

SS is basically just PoE. I would probably try to force him into whatever room because on the off chance he's scum it should be apparently obvious when he returns. And I also think that we would take SS more into account when deciding on mech stuff than other players and if he's scum he could possibly force us into a subuptimal position.p

S_S is PoE scum for you? what's your PoE of scum rn?

@Catboi - Why did you say you can't see the motivation for scum!Dunn to hammer Keep?

Not really PoE scum, he just hasn't done anything towny.

I mean, he hasn't done anything at all, he's been V/LA since the game started. I personally feel that enough people have been towny in some way that I feel there is a decent chance he is scum, though.

I think I have an idea of why he hammered it but I also think he wont say until toMorrow and that's probably for the best if hes town. I do think that unwnd's jump to gate is scummy - it looks reactionary to Dunn hammering Keep. It's probably done as WIFOM on the current composition of Keep. If unwnd flips scum, I would be wondering if the Gate jump was scum afraid of getting 0-0-3 by an all town keep, or was it meant to make us think that?

[skitter30]

I think it was more to prevent scum being forced to the wall

[T3]

SS hasn't done anything -> I don't have a good read on him.

[T3]

My reads are:
kyo
Peng/skitter
SS
unwnd
implosion
Dunn/catboi

There are scumreads being thrown at skitter and I'm not sure why.

[skitter30]

Well if the people i'm scumreading are in fact scum it makes a lot of sense why

[T3]

Well if the people i'm scumreading are in fact scum it makes a lot of sense why

That too.

[Dannflor]

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