Datisi's Mini Normal Review, July 2021

[Datisi]

ego

will type up my thoughts and what i was going for in a little bit

[Datisi]

okay so. i was trying to think of a ~gimmick~ that i could use in my next normal, roaming around the wiki. despite the run of my last mini normal turning out to be an utter disaster, i kind of liked the idea of "all scum has the same non-goon role". then i realized that mafia babysitter is a normal role. *then* i thought how "disloyal vigilante" seems like a funny concept for a role, and how i would want to try to design a game that can't get onto evens. with those in mind:

novice 2-shot disloyal vig is obviously the main town power. any shot they take that doesn't fire is a clear (though i know they don't necessarily know that), and any shot that *does* fire results in dead scum and one dead extra townie - though the way i was looking at it is, it's a "timeskip to the next day", speeding through "cop gets a guilty, outs it, guiltied scum gets the yeet, the remaining scum make the nightkill". except more townsided that that scenario, since the cop doesn't out themselves while doing so, and scum has to pre-queue the extra nightkill.

since i was trying to keep within "no getting on evens", i was a bit limited in what roles i could add, but - the n1 psy n2 det is a weaker version of a gunsmith (i didn't want another investigative that can get clears), motion detector is there because i didn't want a tracker that can get clears by tracking scum somewhere, then realizing that the person is confirmed town because the scum are disloyal. that's also why i gave scum the informed, so that they know what their role is supposed to do, and that they don't holster because they fear a tracker.

scum are all disloyal because i didn't want a scenario where scum cross-protect each other directly, and end up getting a "false inno" from the disloyal vig. and since any shot that doesn't fire is a hardclear, my idea was that the only way to stop that is if scum fakeclaimed some sorta blocking role - which is also why i added a motion detector and a checker, as roles that they have to be careful about since they can disprove a bad fakeclaim. (i guess scum can also fakeclaim protective, but considering the vig will probably be shooting at the more scumread players...)

i don't see why the extra babysitter shot is a big deal, maybe because i'm looking at it as "damage control" rather than "extra killing power". again, i felt it was more townsided than the "traditional" cop gets guilty claims guilty sequence, since the "cop" doesn't get outed and scum has to pick the extra nightkill with less information that they would otherwise. so, uh. not sure what to do, i didn't expect that the first thing i was gonna hear in review would be "hey, the main gimmick of your setup is not supposed to be normal".

[Datisi]

damn, nrg got hands

okay uhh. not sure i feel like trying to rework this setup, considering it started from mafia babysitters. will think of something else then.

[Datisi]

i see, that makes sense. balancing that out would probably require more town power than i am confortable with, so... new idea:

1x town macho combined checker loyal mailman
1x town combined roleblocker rolestopper
1x town ascetic 1-shot bodyguard
1x town night 3 informed (each member of the mafia is ascetic)
6x vt

1x mafia informed ascetic (there is a town night 3 informed that will know that each member of the mafia is ascetic)
2x mafia ascetic

- daytalk enabled

keeping the idea of "all three scum are the same non-goon role". i'm not ~sure about this one (i like to sleep on a setup before presenting it, and i didn't get the chance to do that here), but i've been thinking of the role "combined checker -modifier- mailman" for a while now, and i wasn't able to fit it anywhere so far. i keep going back and forth on whether to make the 1-shot bodyguard just ascetic or keep as-is, but i might be widely off-balance regardless, so might as well hear the nrg first.

originally this setup was 3 mafia commuters, but as i was typing this, i decided to actually check the wiki, and it said that commuters cannot both carry out night actions and commute. considering there's no vigilantes (so it's functionally identical), i changed it into mafia ascetics instead.

also, am i correct in thinking that a combined rolestopper roleblocker that targets a macho role would successfully perform the roleblock and wouldn't rolestop them?

[Datisi]

oh, the roleblock would still happen? i originally had it as an alien, but decided against it, because i thought alien targeting a macho player fails completely, not that just the rolestopping action fails.

pedit: yes, it is. but i wanted the player to still be roleblockable and not rolestoppable.

[Datisi]

actually, if the alien targets a macho player, would the rolestop fail, or eould the macho player be untargetable by all non-killing actions?

[Datisi]

every time i think that i finally understand all normal roles and interactions, something pops up that proves me wrong

[Datisi]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. It negates the effects of any roles that would prevent it from death

taken from the wiki. this wording makes me think that it negates all effects of a role that would prevent it from dying. however, i would agree that that interpretation night be a bit too nitpicky and i wouldn't be surprised if it's wrong.

how does the setup look otherwise?

[Datisi]

i don't have a problem with renaming the role into alien, in fact that's my preferred course of action. i just wanted the cop to be blockable. so if an alien targeting them still blocks them, fine by me.

maybe an issue with that would be that players *assume* that alien targeting a macho role doesn't block them, and then it *somehow* leads to a false guilty on someone, but... i dunno what to do about that, lol.

and uh, i'll actually sleep on it first. (and see what mastina thinks.)

[Datisi]

@implo

, what happens if an alien targets a macho role?

(1) is the macho role protected from kills?
(2) are they roleblocked?
(3) are they rolestopped (wrt non-killing actions)?

[Datisi]

if you did want to boost town power, though, making the n3 informed also into a checker might be a slight EV boost. there's a lot that can disrupt the checker and give false positives for when that player eventually does get informed, but even still it'd probably overall help town.

okay, so yesterday i knew there was a reason i was against this, but it was very late and i couldn't remember why. i remember now - i'm vary of including another role that gets results because any result that they do get back will (if/when town figures out scum are all ascetic) turn into a clear. i know there's two roles that can potentially screw with them, but it still feels like it could enter an uncomfortable amount of clears.

also, i am very close to wanting to include something like town disloyal fruit vendor. is that mean? am i a mean moderator?

[Datisi]

they’re blocked and rolestopped for everything but kills but not protected.

i will go by this, then. i figured the wiki's phrasing was potentially off, so i wanted to check.

[Datisi]

1x town macho combined checker loyal mailman
1x town alien
1x town 1-shot bodyguard
1x town night 3 informed (each member of the mafia is ascetic)
1x town ascetic 2-shot disloyal fruit vendor
5x vt

1x mafia informed ascetic (there is a town night 3 informed that will know that each member of the mafia is ascetic)
2x mafia ascetic

is this being an asshole? the town ascetic 2-shot disloyal fruit vendor (that is a role name) is obviously meant to be a cursed version of a miller / suspicious claim, to the point i'm not sure.

[Datisi]

"here is your role pm. you will think that your role is useful in finding scum and can get a guilty. however, not only is your role completely useless, you cannot be cleared by the real cop, you *also* appear suspicious as fuck for your claim after the setup gets revealed, and the cop will then see you as a miller. ...have fun?"

[Datisi]

wouldn't it be really funny if mastina, northsidegal, and implosion had this big discussion on the interaction of an alien and a macho role, only for me to then realize that i don't like the proposed setup that sparked that discussion, and would rather try to review an almost completely different setup that's a rework of the original one i proposed, and that has neither an alien nor a macho role in it?

1x town 2-shot joat (neapolitan, rolecop, gunsmith)
1x town combined bodyguard tracker
1x town n3 informed (each member of the mafia is bulletproof)
1x town disloyal vigilante
6x vt

1x mafia bulletproof informed (there is a town n3 informed that will know that each member of the mafia is bulletproof)
2x mafia bulletproof

(i'm assuming that if a bodyguard guards a bulletproof player who gets shot, the bodyguard dies anyway)

my worry about this one is whether the majority of town roles are confirmable purely by claiming. since i feel like there's obviously going to be some synergy between an investigative who is supposed to be targetting scummy players but will die if their target gets shot, a vigilante whose shot can only go through on scum, and an informed townie who will be aware that all scum is bulletproof, i did think about possibly informing scum about the whole setup outright - but hey, that's why we're here, so.

[Datisi]

This, explicitly, depends on the wording used in the bodyguard's role.

huh, i thought normal roles and interactions should always be the same and shouldn't depend on the wording. or rather, the wording should be made according to how the role is supposed to work, not the other way around.

[Datisi]

wait, you're trying to tell me that implo doesn't have all of possibly-millions of interactions between normal roles worked out in his head and ready for applying at any moment that it's needed? damn.

looking back to my previous normal games with a bodyguard, i worded the role as "if your target were to die", but in those games, they were the only protective so it didn't matter. if this interaction isn't precisely defined yet, i want to go with the bodyguard dying if they're protecting a bulletproof getting shot at. and i think it also makes sense flavour-wise - if the bodyguard is meant to be "taking the bullet for their target", that should "trigger" before the bulletproof, no?

[Datisi]

so, at what point should i start getting worried about northsidegal?

[Datisi]

hm. considering that i don't think i'd want my game to be described as "a lot of extreme swing", the queue itself is moving pretty slowly, and we're stuck in review limbo anyway... i might try to rework it again? or scrap it completely? i'll see during today if i come up with anything.

[Datisi]

it's alright, not anyone's fault. <3

i'm currently a bit out of it, but i do have another idea for a setup if this one turns out to be way too swingy.

[Datisi]

suggestions: making the vigilante just a regular vigilante somewhat surprisingly i think actually does push the needle somewhat measurably closer towards balanced. it turns the process of getting information from the disloyal vig into one that only requires like one or two interactions (vig shoots someone, they don't die -> informed claims -> major suspicion on shot target). from there, i think i might also find a way to add some kind of complex role or vanilla cop into the setup – maybe a complex fruit vendor? just a regular VC might be stronger for town, but whatever. that would probably give town more of a fighting chance when it comes to massclaim. i might stick that role onto the n3 informed, but it's up to you.

i don't think i'm down for this. i feel like an ungated vigilante is likely to get the town an extra yeet there, considering he can get rid of yeetbaity townies. and a vanilla cop, coupled with the informed of all mafia being bulletproof, essentially turns into a neapolitan? so that feels like potential for way too much town power. i'll go back to the drawing board.

[Datisi]

i have a question that i don't think is answered properly on the wiki - is a backup of a role bound by the modifiers of the role that dies and that they inherited? for example, if a 1-shot cop dies and there's a backup cop in the game, will the backup cop only be able to use his ability once or will he be a full cop?

i just got a setup idea, but the whole thing depends on the answer to this, and i can't find it.

[Datisi]

so if i had three mafia backup ascetics, and one of them died, the other two would become full ascetics, right?

(this is one of those posts of mine where i imagine nrg rolling their eyes when they read it)

[Datisi]

four prefixes on every role and only three vanilla townies, you say? i can do that.

anyway, hm. i see, i thought it was needed that just any ascetic died. back back again to the drawing board, unless implo swoops in.

[Datisi]

Backups of a role, by default, become the base version of the role once any version of that role dies, even if that version of the role had modifiers the backup did not have. The backup does not inherit the modifiers of the role it is backing up. (A backup cop becomes a full cop if a 1x cop dies.)

---

Backups do not become the role they are a backup of if another backup dies. (A backup cop does not become a cop if a backup cop dies.)

the latter seems like an almost arbitrary exception of the former, since "backup" in itself is a modifier, no?

[Datisi]

because i got really attached to the idea of 3 mafia backup ascetics in the last 24 hours before the nrg crushed my hopes and dreams:

1x town n1 n2 friendly neighbour
1x town weak visitor
1x town roleblocker
1x town informed ascetic (all members of the mafia are backup ascetics; there is an informed mafia member who is aware of the existence of a town informed ascetic.)
6x vanilla townie

1x mafia informed backup ascetic (there is a town informed ascetic who is aware of the fact that all mafia members are backup ascetic, and who is aware of the existence of a mafia informed who is aware of the existence of a town informed ascetic.)
2x mafia backup ascetic

public info: all mafia members have two same modifiers in their role. they may or may not have different roles.

i'm stealing the gimmick of "a role that is informed of being important but can't say so because scum are looking for them" from a normal i played half a year ago. the friendly neighbour is the only role that i'm hm about here. it feels wrong to punish scum for sniping the ascetic super early (by introducing a role that is Basically A Cop then), but this setup otherwise feels too weak for town and i have no idea what to do with it otherwise. maybe a fruit vendor or something? i'm not sure.

[Datisi]

(at least, if we go with the "backups activate other backups" interpretation)

er, i thought we were not going with that, considering literal implosion told us to not go with that. like, that's the whole point with the town having an ascetic who's also informed that they REALLY shouldn't claim being ascetic. it was kind of a fix added on after i was told backups don't activate backups.

[Datisi]

the reason for the information. originally the public information was just "all mafia members have the same role", as a means of letting the town know that once one of them died, the other two became ascetic. but since that's apparently Not How That Works, i added a town ascetic and thought to balance around that. but then i realized there's a possibility that the town ascetic just plain claims day 1 a la miller, so i tried to fix *that* my adding the two informed roles to the game... and then the "all mafia members habe the same role" claim was false because one of them got an informed modifier slapped on top of their role.

also, typing that out, i just realized a potential issue. if going by the letter of normal games, "backup is treated as a modifier to a

role

, causing the role to be unusable and do nothing until another player with the same role (regardless of alignment) has died". and i just realized that "ascetic" is classified as a modifier, not as a role.

intuitively, "backup ascetic" makes sense. but going by the exact wording, i'm not sure if that's a legal combination... i'm gonna be Not Happy if that also gets vetoed now ;_;

[Datisi]

...bump?

i mean, "backup" is technically classified as a modifier, though i understand the idea that it's not a "classic" modifier.

is "backup ascetic" then a legal role combination? that is, a person who becomes an ascetic after one ascetic has died?

[Datisi]

okay uh. thinking more, i don't actually like the backup ascetics anymore, since my idea before relied on them activating as soon as one scum died, and introducing a town ascetic complicates things more than i am happy with

1x n1 n2 friendly neighbour
1x town lazy alien
1x town 3-shot disloyal detective
1x town universal backup
6x vt

3x mafia lazy ascetic

public info: all mafia members are the same role.

how is something like this looking idea/balance-wise?

[Datisi]

the mafia aren't just ascetics, they're lazy ascetics. the disloyal detective becomes an alignment cop once only one scum is left alive. that was my idea behind the role - at 3 scum alive, they think they're a good role but in fact they're useless. at 2 scum alive, they realize that they're useless RIGHT NOW but will gain power once another scum dies. which also ties in with punishing early scumflips, since if a scum flips on day one, the disloyal detective will immediately know not to waste their shots yet.

and the friendly neighbour confirms pretty much anyone who backs them up, no? as soon as one scum flips, the town will know the mafia were ascetic, therefore whoever confirmed the friendly neighbour was town.

granted, i am kinda worried if this setup has too much opportunity to snowball in either direction (complete scum sweep *or* one scum falling early and the rest right after), so i'm interested if there's any simple fixs for that. maybe the universal backup can be something else? that's the last one i added when i wasn't sure what else to add.

[Datisi]

so... is this review still happening, or...?

[Datisi]

i'll ping him and ask.

i do have ideas for the setup change, but that's probably better left for when the reviewer situation gets sorted out.

[Datisi]

1x town simple neapolitan
1x town informed disloyal cop (all members of the mafia have the ascetic modifier; you know that there are no aliens, commuters, jailkeepers, roleblockers, or rolestoppers in game, as well as no joats with any of those abilities)
1x town ascetic enabler
7x vt

1x mafia informed ascetic (xxx is a town ascetic enabler; there is a town informed disloyal cop in the game; they are informed of there being no aliens, commuters, jailkeepers, roleblockers, or rolestoppers in game, as well as no joats with any of those abilities)
2x mafia ascetic

okay, so keeping with the theme of "all mafia members have similar roles" i got going on. i also wanted to incorporate the idea of a town investigative who is useless unless a certain condition is met (in this case, the ascetic enabler dying) + mafia being informed of that being the case and having to work to make sure that condition is not met. i've had a few ideas on how to work that in (ninjas/watchers, doctors/gunsmith) but ultimately this seemed the most elegant, plus a lot of this review has been focused on ascetics so let's keep it going.

now, my reservations about the actual execution of the setup:

(1) i'm not sure if the town power is enough? like, with 7 vts, i know the neapolitan is strong, but considering the possibility of it being the only functional tpr for the whole game, is it *enough*?

(2) i'm also not sure if the "hey scum, this person is the ascetic enabler, and you really should keep them alive" is that exciting. mainly, unless the role lands on a player who either happens to be the ultimate yeetbait or a paragon-level scumhunter, simply *not* killing the person until they figure out who's the disloyal cop might not be that much of a challenge?

now, i was gonna go off thinking aloud on how to give scum more incentive to hunt for the cop (by, for example, making the ascetic enabler an ic as well), now i'm wondering if a game like this is inherently unfun for scum? where they have to find and kill a certain player in order to "proceed"? i guess it's not *that* widely different than "traditional" power role hunting, but i still want to hear a second opinion there.

oh, and slightly off-topic question: there is nothing in the normal rules that says that the town roles have to be coloured green and scum roles have to be coloured red, right? like, is there anything stopping me from making role pm's with town role names in red and scum role names in green, and flipping them accordingly in game? not saying i would do this, because i'm not (yet) that much of an asshole mod, but i am wondering.

[Datisi]

i know fun isn't a necessity in a review, but players having fun is the whole point of moderation for me, and it seems like scum players as a whole are having a hard time on site now, i don't want to make it worse by restrictive game design. i'll try to think of a way to do what you suggested.

[Datisi]

okay, i cannot figure out a way to do that, other than throwing in both trps that scum wants and those that scum doesn't want to be ascetic against, and making them guess whether they have to activate or not based on no info seems... like a not fun game design. so maybe something like this?

1x town ascetic activated innocent child
1x town 2-shot macho simple neapolitan
1x town babysitter
1x town lazy roleblocker
6x vt

1x mafia informed backup ascetic (there is a town ascetic activated innocent child in the game)
1x mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic
1x mafia backup ascetic

public info: all members of the mafia are backup ascetics. they may or may not have additional roles and/or modifiers.

i feel like scum would want to hunt the ic here in order to be ascetic, but it's not outright game-losing if they don't find it immediately. and they have a 1-shot rolestopper to help them out a bit there.

and mechanics wise, i'm not sure how the interactions between a babysitter and a macho role work. mainly, babysitter is a protect when it targets the nightkill (so i assume that would fail), but it's a kill when it gets killed (so i assume that would go through)?

[Datisi]

alright. i'll make the role pm's in a little bit, though i just had an idea: would it swing too much in scum's favour of the mafia backup ascetic also became a 1-shot checker? i feel like that would lower the swing and give scum a bit more nightplay freedom (not having to use each nightkill on an ic guess), but it obviously scumsides the game a bit.

[Datisi]

okay so

ruleset:

Spoiler:

rules

shamelessly stolen

inspired by plotinus' and schadd_'s rulesets.

the tl;dr:

~ day 1: 10 days. days 2+: 8 days. nights: 2 days.
~ majority yeets.
~ 36 hour before prod, 24 hours before replacement.
~ if you want to replace out, pm me.
~ flavour has no bearing on player alignments.
~ don't be a dick.

the basics:

~ follow all site rules.
~ my mod colour is

teal

. you can use it if you want, just don't attempt to impersonate me.
~ you may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads i have created for this purpose. you may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
~

if you wish to replace out, pm me, do not request replacement in thread.

do not discuss your reasons for replacing out publically. do not threaten to replace out or tell other players to replace out. if you have any concerns that a player should be replaced, pm me.
~ do not quote pm's from the mod at all, either real or fabricated. do not quote posts from private threads. this includes specific timestamps. paraphrasing is acceptable.
~

don’t be a dick.

this is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. attack the play not the player. if your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. if you do not stop, i will tell you to stop. if you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced.
~

flavour is just flavour, and has no bearing on player alignments.

don't use it to make arguments.
~ play to win. seriously claiming scum with another player is against the rules. i will judge what counts as serious - don't toe the line.
~ if you have any questions about the rules, feel free to pm me.

days and voting:

~ day 1 lasts up to 10 real-life days. days 2+ last up to 8 real-life days.
~ extensions may or may not be granted if there are replacements, or if the circumstances call for it (for example, if the site was experiencing issues).
~ votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: datisi or

vote: datisi

. Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. unvotes are nice but not required. type [

v]datisi[

/v] to vote and [

uv]datisi[

/uv] to unvote.
~ you can use nicknames when voting, as long as it is clear who you're referring to.
~ if i think it’s a vote, it’s a vote.
~ days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to yeet somebody.
~ if a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no yeet, the day will end without a yeet. at evens, 50% is sufficient for no yeet.
~ twilight begins when a majority is reached and lasts until i lock the thread. you're still alive until i flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
~ it takes (100% of living players + 1) votes to yeet the moderator.

activity and v/la:

~ you must post at least once every 36 hours or i will prod you. you then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or i will replace you. if you come back before i find a replacement, you can stay.
~ if i have to prod you for the fourth time, i will automatically start searching for a replacement.
~ if you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start pm or you will be replaced during the night.
~ players can request me to prod somebody early. this will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod.
~ if you need to be absent for longer than 36 hours, you should declare

v/la

in bold in the thread like this: [

b]

@mod: I will be v/la until thursday

[

/b]. while you are v/la, you will be nudged once every 60 hours. two nudges equals one prod. if you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of v/la status, you will be replaced.
~ a naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. to avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; datisi is still scum."

nights and night actions:

~ nights last 48 hours.
~ the night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
~ you may submit actions via pm. if you have a scum pt, a mason pt, or a notes pt, you may also submit your actions there. if the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. you can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
~ if i don't hear from you about your night actions, i'll pm you 24 hours before the deadline. this doesn't count as a prod. if i still don't hear from you, you will take no action.

miscellaneous:

~ let me know if you want a private thread to store your thoughts and feedback for the other players. you may draft posts in your notes pt if the posts are clearly meant to be posted in the main thread. you may talk about your notes pt. you may not directly quote from your notes pt, and you may not use it to demonstrate that you've had a town mindset in private all along; just put your town mindset in public to begin with and keep your notes to yourself.
~ provable randomness is against the rules. saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org screenshots is not.
~ no hard to read / extremely small text. cryptography is forbidden. breadcrumbing is okay.
~ using scripts to alter or hide another player's posts is not allowed.
~ the only allowed media is embedded content, or links to uneditable content. for example, you are not allowed to link vocaroos and pastebins in the thread.
~ very big images and big chunks of non-game-related text are allowed, as long as they are spoiled. if you post them without a spoiler, i will edit a spoiler in.
~ excessive spamming is not allowed.
~ the mod may make mistakes. minor errors (such as a mistake in the vote count) can be pointed out in-thread. for bigger errors, please pm me.
~ i reserve the right to alter/remove/add any rules as i see fit. you will be notified if this happens.

setup information:

~ this is a normal game.
~ any and all private topics will be open at all times.
~ all members of the

mafia

are

backup ascetics

. they may or may not have additional roles and/or modifiers.
~ sample vanilla townie role pm:

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

vanilla townie

.

role abilities:

~ you have no special abilities.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to town and at least one town player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

role pm's for the currently agreed setup:

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

vanilla townie

.

role abilities:

~ you have no special abilities.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to town and at least one town player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

town ascetic activated innocent child

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

town ascetic activated innocent child

.

role abilities:

~ actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.
~ at any time, you may pm the moderator to publicly confirm you to be aligned with the town.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to town and at least one town player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

town macho 2-shot simple neapolitan

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

town macho 2-shot simple neapolitan

.

role abilities:

~ protective roles cannot save you from a nightkill.
~ twice in the game, during the night, you may target a player. assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is a

vanilla townie

. this action will fail, as if roleblocked, when used on a player who is not vanilla. both vanilla townies and mafia goons are considered vanilla.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to town and at least one town player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

town babysitter

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

town babysitter

.

role abilities:

~ each night, you may target a player. assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from one direct kill, but will die if you are killed.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to town and at least one town player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

town lazy roleblocker

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

town lazy roleblocker

.

role abilities:

~ each night, if at least two anti-town players were alive at the start of the night, you may target a player. assuming no interference with your action, that player's active abilities will be blocked that night.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to town and at least one town player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

mafia informed backup ascetic

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

mafia informed backup ascetic

.

factional abilities:

~ you are a member of the mafia, along with

playername

, who is a

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

, and

playername

, who is a

mafia backup ascetic

.
~ once every night, a living member of the mafia may submit a factional kill action.
~ you may talk with your living teammates in the mafia private topic, located here. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

role abilities:

~ you have your voice and your vote.
~ once an ascetic player has died, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.
~ you know that there is a

town ascetic activated innocent child

in the game.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to the mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occurring) and at least one mafia player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name or by posting in the mafia pt.

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

.

factional abilities:

~ you are a member of the mafia, along with

playername

, who is a

mafia informed backup ascetic

, and

playername

, who is a

mafia backup ascetic

.
~ once every night, a living member of the mafia may submit a factional kill action.
~ you may talk with your living teammates in the mafia private topic, located here. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

role abilities:

~ you have your voice and your vote.
~ once an ascetic player has died, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.
~ once in the game, during the night, you may target a player. assuming no interference with your action, all other actions targeting that player will fail, as if roleblocker.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to the mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occurring) and at least one mafia player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name or by posting in the mafia pt.

mafia backup ascetic

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

mafia backup ascetic

.

factional abilities:

~ you are a member of the mafia, along with

playername

, who is a

mafia informed backup ascetic

, and

playername

, who is a

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

.
~ once every night, a living member of the mafia may submit a factional kill action.
~ you may talk with your living teammates in the mafia private topic, located here. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

role abilities:

~ you have your voice and your vote.
~ once an ascetic player has died, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to the mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occurring) and at least one mafia player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name or by posting in the mafia pt.

role pm's for if you agree on changing the mafia backup ascetic into a mafia 1-shot checker backup ascetic:

Spoiler:

mafia informed backup ascetic

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

mafia informed backup ascetic

.

factional abilities:

~ you are a member of the mafia, along with

playername

, who is a

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

, and

playername

, who is a

mafia 1-shot checker backup ascetic

.
~ once every night, a living member of the mafia may submit a factional kill action.
~ you may talk with your living teammates in the mafia private topic, located here. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

role abilities:

~ you have your voice and your vote.
~ once an ascetic player has died, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.
~ you know that there is a

town ascetic activated innocent child

in the game.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to the mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occurring) and at least one mafia player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name or by posting in the mafia pt.

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

.

factional abilities:

~ you are a member of the mafia, along with

playername

, who is a

mafia informed backup ascetic

, and

playername

, who is a

mafia 1-shot checker backup ascetic

.
~ once every night, a living member of the mafia may submit a factional kill action.
~ you may talk with your living teammates in the mafia private topic, located here. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

role abilities:

~ you have your voice and your vote.
~ once an ascetic player has died, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.
~ once in the game, during the night, you may target a player. assuming no interference with your action, all other actions targeting that player will fail, as if roleblocker.

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to the mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occurring) and at least one mafia player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name or by posting in the mafia pt.

mafia 1-shot checker backup ascetic

welcome,

playername

, to mini normal XXXX: placeholder! you are a

mafia 1-shot checker backup ascetic

.

factional abilities:

~ you are a member of the mafia, along with

playername

, who is a

mafia informed backup ascetic

, and

playername

, who is a

mafia 1-shot rolestopper backup ascetic

.
~ once every night, a living member of the mafia may submit a factional kill action.
~ you may talk with your living teammates in the mafia private topic, located here. you may talk there at any time as long as you are alive.

role abilities:

~ you have your voice and your vote.
~ once an ascetic player has died, actions that target you, other than kills, will fail as if roleblocked.
~ once in the game, during the night, you may target a player. you will be informed whether or not your action succeeded (but your action has no other effect).

win condition:

~ you win when there are no longer any threats to the mafia (or nothing can prevent this from occurring) and at least one mafia player is alive.

please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name or by posting in the mafia pt.

results:

Spoiler:

neapolitan:
~ "

playername

is a

vanilla townie

."
~ "

playername

is

not

a

vanilla townie

." (impossible to get, but still)
~ "your action failed, and you did not receive a result."

checker:
~ "your action succeeded, and you checked

playername

."
~ "your action failed, and you did not receive a result.

[Datisi]

are there any simple changes to the setup you recommend that would make it so the checker fits? if not, i'll probably go v with the setup as-is.

[Datisi]

no worries, we're yeeting the checker out the window then. thanks for all the help! i know this review was a bit all over the place :/