Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[Snarky Fishes]

@ffery, so what does an Annie-unwnd team look like to you here?

I'm not sure they make sense as a team.

unwnd's emotional content, if it weren't laid on so thick, would probably have turned my read completely around. We've both wavered on him a few times since the start of this day.

Do you have a game(s) where he's been able to hit his town notes this well as scum?

WH13...maybe? He replaced into GreyICE's slot, which wasn't all that suspected while I was in the game on day 1.

The newbie game he referenced, with petapan as a partner, he was, if you'll pardon the term, robotic. He calls his play there phoning it in, and I guess either is a decent description.

I've thought back on the Thad game where morph replaced in as a neighborizing town stump with inventions to give our neighbors. He zoomed us both. That was a lot of years ago.

[Medea the Alien]

I don't have a game where he escaped his scum range because THIS is the game where he escaped his scum range for the first time.

You underestimate his willingness to avenge tenet.

[Medea the Alien]

You have no idea how close I was to just linking this thread in reply to the "do you have a game" line.

[ArcAngel9]

This game is haunted.
If anyone else thinks that I somehow have a pre-planned fake hammer post. Thanks for increasing my intelligence and decreasing yours!

Your parents have wasted money on your education!

Would you like to engage the matters at hand?

my heart says no!
but I will play by my win condition.

[unwnd]

I really don't want to make a mini case on Annie.

I can give you a complete dialogue of my thoughts and how they've accumulated. It will be messy but I will do my best to keep it coherent. How does that sound?

[Medea the Alien]

I really don't want to make a mini case on Annie.

I can give you a complete dialogue of my thoughts and how they've accumulated. It will be messy but I will do my best to keep it coherent. How does that sound?

Throw in a super sugary frappachino and we've got a date.

[Snarky Fishes]

You have no idea how close I was to just linking this thread in reply to the "do you have a game" line.

When I get back from the doctor I'm going to run a comb through both isos again.

The almost-hammer was disconcerting, but I think it shook loose some of my concepts about what's going on in the game.

We don't have a lot of time to do stuff before day end.

[Lukewarm]

So, it kinda feels weird that after seeing unwnd attack the wine club mentality this game, then when I looked back at an old game I saw him arguing that the wind club does not have any clique problems

Spoiler:

I think Tenet and this game are definitely a case of (perfect storm) and I don't feel it reflects on a cliquey mentality at all

There was just a lot of fucking tension overall

Don't throw away your work this game to spite the mod, there's other avenues postgame. We need you here.

I don't know what you would consider a clique if refusing to dialogue with anyone outside of it in good faith for literally a calendar month does not fit the bill, but given that you spent all of the end of day sucking up to notscience and Cabd I cannot say I am surprised that you disagree.

Yeah generally speaking I don't believe the behavior was fully intentional rather just circumstance and I feel your own grievances attest to that

I'm just offering you perspective

[Medea the Alien]

I really don't want to make a mini case on Annie.

I can give you a complete dialogue of my thoughts and how they've accumulated. It will be messy but I will do my best to keep it coherent. How does that sound?

Throw in a super sugary frappachino and we've got a date.

Toss in how it works with Lukewarm-scum (or explain your Lukewarm-scum read simultaneously) and I'm listening.

--PA

[Lukewarm]

I really don't want to make a mini case on Annie.

I can give you a complete dialogue of my thoughts and how they've accumulated. It will be messy but I will do my best to keep it coherent. How does that sound?

Throw in a super sugary frappachino and we've got a date.

Toss in how it works with Lukewarm-scum (or explain your Lukewarm-scum read simultaneously) and I'm listening.

--PA

I am pretty sure that he is town reading me?

[Medea the Alien]

So, it kinda feels weird that after seeing unwnd attack the wine club mentality this game, then when I looked back at an old game I saw him arguing that the wind club does not have any clique problems

Spoiler:

I think Tenet and this game are definitely a case of (perfect storm) and I don't feel it reflects on a cliquey mentality at all

There was just a lot of fucking tension overall

Don't throw away your work this game to spite the mod, there's other avenues postgame. We need you here.

I don't know what you would consider a clique if refusing to dialogue with anyone outside of it in good faith for literally a calendar month does not fit the bill, but given that you spent all of the end of day sucking up to notscience and Cabd I cannot say I am surprised that you disagree.

Yeah generally speaking I don't believe the behavior was fully intentional rather just circumstance and I feel your own grievances attest to that

I'm just offering you perspective

I mean don't worry the irony of playing on an alt and talking about how they were NOT a part of the "Wine club" then being unwnd all along was not lost on me.

[Lukewarm]

So, it kinda feels weird that after seeing unwnd attack the wine club mentality this game, then when I looked back at an old game I saw him arguing that the wind club does not have any clique problems

Spoiler:

I think Tenet and this game are definitely a case of (perfect storm) and I don't feel it reflects on a cliquey mentality at all

There was just a lot of fucking tension overall

Don't throw away your work this game to spite the mod, there's other avenues postgame. We need you here.

I don't know what you would consider a clique if refusing to dialogue with anyone outside of it in good faith for literally a calendar month does not fit the bill, but given that you spent all of the end of day sucking up to notscience and Cabd I cannot say I am surprised that you disagree.

Yeah generally speaking I don't believe the behavior was fully intentional rather just circumstance and I feel your own grievances attest to that

I'm just offering you perspective

I mean don't worry the irony of playing on an alt and talking about how they were NOT a part of the "Wine club" then being unwnd all along was not lost on me.

He continued that line after he swapped back to his main tho

[Medea the Alien]

Annie+unwnd has been my best guess for the solve for a while

What sticks in my mind for this day phase is your work to get the 'activate possible backup desharder' plan into play. When asked you then say it's likely Annie-unwnd. What I'm asking is either a separate discussion of why you think they make sense as scum or a link to where you did that already because I'm old and forgetful and bad at reading ISOs sometimes. Pretend there's no backup desharder. What's your goal/reads then?

--PA

[Lukewarm]

Annie+unwnd has been my best guess for the solve for a while

What sticks in my mind for this day phase is your work to get the 'activate possible backup desharder' plan into play. When asked you then say it's likely Annie-unwnd. What I'm asking is either a separate discussion of why you think they make sense as scum or a link to where you did that already because I'm old and forgetful and bad at reading ISOs sometimes. Pretend there's no backup desharder. What's your goal/reads then?

--PA

I have scum cased annie a bunch of times this day phase. Unwnd maybe less so. I'll grab links to my annie posts

[unwnd]

PoE is a short term I've been using to describe my turn on Annie. I think that remains apt. I think however it's not the full description and I've chosen to omit details because of the problem I just hinted. My brain feels a bit clogged because right now I find myself simply repeating internally. I think Annie is scum because PoE and that is derived from gut feeling. Repeat that as I see the thread veer onto me or other subjects and I can only scream. I didn't want to come to this because I think socially speaking Annie is hitting all the right notes. It's much more difficult to break down someone who has thread interest on their side. The whole assassin bit. Claiming one-shot cop and inno'ing Spiffeh whom was a prime target of offense. Seemingly doing a lot of headwork and then posting his "notes" coming into this day. Does it not bother anyone that Annie has an answer for everything.

OK, pause to make sure you're listening. Why do you think everyone is sitting here and freaking out. It's because town doesn't have the fucking answers and can't come to conclusions so quickly. Annie however has played this day has an assurance that doesn't match everyone else. What I mean by assurance is that there seems to be nothing lost from this day and his behavior shows it. I'm fucking reeling because we're close to a loss yet Annie sits on his laurels and sometimes totes an AA9 scumread that apparently COBRA FUCKING KAI can't get launched. You've seen me use this word before but it describes most situations well: There is no conviction. There is no progress in reads others and I'd expect (and Cabd has picked up on this too) that he would have the Fear of God instilled upon him when it comes to Cabd yet not once has he looked back. There's a lack of unjust paranoia or even bad play. I'm probably covered in mud at this rate and made a complete joke out of myself. Whatever. Can you say the same about Annie? His play is developed and processed in such a way that it is

intentionally

not trying to leave traces. There is some other instances I picked up on when it comes to Pooky interaction and such but I didn't want to get into it.

[unwnd]

There is also other Pooky things that made me believe it wasn't AA9, but hey.

Another thing I didn't want to get into. I don't really like leaving tiny scraps around and then making others piece it together. I usually want a full cohesion that everyone can read along to. There are tiny things I've looked back on that have weighed on me and why I feel the way about certain things. I also think the dichotomy about me complaining about wine club is less about wine club this game and more about not accepting that AA9/Manatee/Lukewarm was the team causing people like wine club to go fucking nuclear. That has been my point since D1. I won't talk further about this.

[unwnd]

The way the scum team did it, resulted in 2 new demons night two and 1 new demon night three.

If they did not want to turn annie (which they shouldn't based on annie's day 1), then they would have made 1 new demon night two and 1 new demon night three.

Both paths result in the exact same number of demons, and the exact same number of people 1 shard away from being demons at the start of this day phase.

The scum team did not need to demonize Annie. So, either annie is scum (and they wanted their ability) OR the scum team blatantly misplayed.

I endorse this product and or service.

This is also a really good post as to why Annie is scum mechanically. It's stayed in my head for a long time.

[unwnd]

Oh and if Annie is scum then I've officially bussed both my partners. I'm not petapan, I usually only bus out of necessity. I don't like being a solo scum.

[Lukewarm]

@Penguin

Spoiler:

I think I might want manatee to deshard Annie tho x.x

DEMON

1. Pooky (Start) (Dead)
2. Medea (Start)
3. ArcAngel9 (N1)
4. ManateeLass (N2)
5. Annie Edison (N2)
6. Spiffeh (N3)

Medea is mech locked out of being scum (despite me scum reading them for most of the game)

I don't think that aa9 is scum. All of the meta stuff + her day play being very non-strategic, when the scum teams day play has felt very purposeful since it feels like we are borderline losing atm

My plan revolves around manatee being town, so not in the Poe for the plan lol

That just leaves spiffeh and Annie. Spiffeh can never be scum unless with Annie. So, Annie would always have to flip before we would ever even consider looking at spiffeh.

----

I also had some paranoia on Annie from before this day phase started, and originally planned on bringing up after the mass claim. But currently more interested in the desharding plan, so did not start doing that yet.

I already mentioned that Annie was my top choice for manatee to deshard over night, but figured it was Step 1 -> convince people on the plan. Step 2 -> convince people on the target.

I would like to hear what the paranoia was about, because as is it looks like you’re calling it a paranoia read when it’s a PoE read and that feels weird :/

The paranoia was keeping you out of being tabled as a town read. The Poe pushed you to my top choice out of the demons.

Mostly buldge tbh. And the fact that he is basically not here, at all...

Over night I decided to talk to ffery today about how normal that is (and to also make sure that I am not just terrible at telling y'all's posts apart).

And also, when he was here, the vast majority of his posts seemed to be about either me or manatee. Both the 2 newest players on the player list and the two most concensisly scum read players day 1.

Because it’s not me disagreeing with the mech. It’s principle for me.

This "principle" sure does line up with scum deciding it is better to die directly, then to die AND lose the fishes demonization

I feel so sure Annie's town. And they're demonized, so their death doesn't help the alternate wincon.

Why are you pushing notsci to suicide on me again?

For me, it is more shock and confusion that he would rather be voted out directly then to take advantage of your role

Also, Luke, you said something about having planned to ask me about Bulge.

IME he's usually a very low activity player and I've seen him miselimmed in part due to that lack of activity in more than one game.

His activity level in the Annie hydra here looks about the same as in the Annie hydra's activity level in Tenet.

I feel like focusing on a read of him in the Annie hydra is kinda similar to focusing on a read of me in this hydra.

Outside of Annie, I have played 1 game with Notty and 2 games with the bulge. All 3 game, they were town and I was also town.

In this game looking at bulge's post, I had him leaning scum when I had him as town reads in both of the others games. So, on a Bulge stand point that is concerning to me.

In this game looking at just notty's post, I had him leaning town (all the way up to the recent couple pages about using your ability, which is not a good look imo), but definitely not as strongly as the other game that I played with him in even before that.

With that in mind, it still seems crazy to me that if the thread did decide to kill annie today, that a Town!annie would rather get voted out directly, and instantly lose the game for the town, then to vote you

I would like to just draw attention to Annie's stances on AA9, in the context of Spiff's case on AA9 and also when me and manatee discovered proper evidence that she was a deshard back up

----

Annie was hard lock town for AA9 since Medea pointed out their old game.

Spiffeh made his case on AA9 being the corrupter in post 4199

Here is every post Annie made about AA9 prior to the flavor claim with manatee
[spoile/r=]

Hi spiffy, long time listener first time caller

Why does scum-AA9 claim receiving the shards in the first place

I’m chewing on it. I know I saw those parallels to the game Medea shared in her ISO, snd the only way I think scum her would know how to perfectly mirror 7 year old meta is if she somehow remembered it or was catering to it. I suppose there’s the old “well y’all just butt heads” argument, but it’s so similar it’s weird to think about.

I’d been mulling it through since I saw people claiming corrupted too.

Your theory does make sense, I’m just trying to reconcile it with my read.

AA9. (But manatee because I have way more tinfoil thoughts there)

I have a clear on Spiffeh and Medea doesn’t make sense as scum with Pooky.

[/sp/oiler]

To be clear, in post 4591, like 400 posts after the spiffeh case, Annie explicitly says that they think that MANATEE is more likely to be scum then AA9

-----

And then they do not mention AA9 for another like 200 posts.

Manatee and I discover the flavor evidence around post 4783

Annie, nearly immediately after this has an appifany that it is just AA9

[spo/iler=]

He said it’s POE.

I’m leaning towards AA9. I got hit with insomnia and spun out and reread some stuff. I think I want to trust the mouse. I think the novice discussion is a roundabout way to avoid the truth that she was demonized N1, she didn’t claim until after Rhea was outed. I’m going to think some more as the day goes on, but that’s where I’m at. We need to hit the corrupter. She makes the most sense.

It’s bordering the lines of what I can believe to think that she simultaneously knows nothing about the setup but had the awareness to claim receiving shards after Rhea did.

@medea you’re going to need to give me the hard sell. The only other elim I’d be okay with is unwnd.

Help me kill AA9, unwnd.

I’m not doing the desharder plan. We kill the corrupter. It’s our only way forward.

We kill AA9.

I want to kill the corrupter who I think is either aa9 or unwnd while heavily leaning the former.

Ffery what are your thoughts on spiffys Aa9 wall

Aa9 or bust.

[/spoi/ler]

The timing of that turn around from "I am just not sure that it can be AA9" to ready to bet the entire game on "AA9 or bust" is suspicious to me.


------

Just, side note, Annie was on and around when me and manatee went on our flavor journey.

Annie makes 4761 just before the discovery, weighing in on my covo with Unwnd. Annie also makes 4788 just after the discovery. And there is radio silence on the luke/manatee convo. He then comes back the next morning, with his reversal on AA9 (moving the conversation past the manatee flavor stuff)

genuinely gobsmacked annie thinks lukewarms plan is an attempt at distraction the more i think about it

Yeah, I have steadily become more convinced that annie is just scum, but did not want to say it and make bell mad at me again

That plan works for me.

I would like to just say that I fucking hate this post.

Like, he did not even once stop to think about the ramifications of this plan. Just instantly on board for it.

And the plan he jumped for has a decent chance of making us lose the game faster...

I figured it would be evident but it was “any plan that lets me kill scum and not send townies off the slaughter mill, works for me”

And that was enough for you to rubber stamp a plan to purposefully give out shards when we know the scum team is trying to win via shards?

No pause to consider if that was actively helping the scum team?

imo, Bulge was super scummy when he was here, and then disappeared

Asking for a shard day 1, and then the scum team sharding them when they could have sharded any one else.

His complete turn around on AA9 coming the moment me and manatee found the flavor stuff to back up my plan.

Making the blatantly anti-win con statement that he would rather us vote him out directly, then to hammer the fishes. Which, from a town!annie perspective is the equivalent of saying "would rather lose right now, then to give the town an extra shot if they are wrong about me" which is pretty :/

And also, I was scum reading bulge day 1, but leaning town on notty day 1, so that was fun

Spoiler:

I actually think that your slot has shaded me for 3 of the 4 above digs. So you guys are both attacking me for digging in, but also saying that I am not doing it at all. It feels like you are selectively reading my posts, and I think I would snap vote you right now if you were not sharing a slot with Notty

Even with that, you are making me doubt your slot. I would ask anyone to sift through annie's iso, and look for what bulge specifically has commented on. The only things I have seen him talk about were me and manatee. And there has been a lot more going on this game...

[/quote]

[Medea the Alien]

The way the scum team did it, resulted in 2 new demons night two and 1 new demon night three.

If they did not want to turn annie (which they shouldn't based on annie's day 1), then they would have made 1 new demon night two and 1 new demon night three.

Both paths result in the exact same number of demons, and the exact same number of people 1 shard away from being demons at the start of this day phase.

The scum team did not need to demonize Annie. So, either annie is scum (and they wanted their ability) OR the scum team blatantly misplayed.

I endorse this product and or service.

This is also a really good post as to why Annie is scum mechanically. It's stayed in my head for a long time.

Oh hey, a Lukewarm post! So since from your POV Lukewarm has to be scum as well, a) why does he make the point you quote and b) what's your scum case on him?

--PA

[unwnd]

...How does he have to be scum as well from my pov?

[Medea the Alien]

...How does he have to be scum as well from my pov?

ou get a quick PA appearance because Cabd is swamped and I'm looking for something I can actually try to fix. Here we go.

Okay folks, congrats, we pretty much have AA9 as town. In fact, here's the list of people who are town unless they've leveled up 5000% or there's major game design shenanigans afoot or there's A SUPER-NICHE PAIRING CASE:
(in no particular order)

ArcAngel9
Snarky Fishes
Medea the Alien
Dunnstral
Rhea
HereThereBeDragons
ManateeGal
Spiffeh
TITUS (GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN HI TITUS IN THE DEAD THREAD!)

Here are the leftovers:
Annie Edison
unwnd
Lukewarm

Anything going forward about the first list being scum, you either present an airtight case that doesn't rely on whinging or you get ignored. Deal with it.

[unwnd]

Sounds like your PoV? I don't think Annie/Lukewarm would be a team here. Lukewarm doesn't have the stones to bus Annie, especially not with his claim in mind. Annie's partner (if he's scum) is one of his supporters.

[Lukewarm]

Sounds like your PoV? I don't think Annie/Lukewarm would be a team here. Lukewarm doesn't have the stones to bus Annie, especially not with his claim in mind. Annie's partner (if he's scum) is one of his supporters.

YOU DON'T KNOW IF I KNOW HOW TO DRIVE A BUS OR NOT! lol

Spoiler:

It feels like every time unwnd gives me a town read, it feels like an insult. And not just this game. This is like the 3rd game in a row

[Medea the Alien]

Anything going forward about the first list being scum, you either present an airtight case that doesn't rely on whinging or you get ignored. Deal with it.

^^^^^^^^