3d20 – The Great Board Game War [GAME OVER]

[Marashu]

VOTE: Dragon of the West - Seems the sort to take Pai Sho way too seriously

[Marashu]

So mad I didn't get what I rolled

I'm glad I didn't get what I rolled. I suspect it might have been one of the five.

[Marashu]

I rolled a town multitasking parity cop, so if a role cop checks someone with parity cop, the multitasking one is town, and the not multitasking one is scum (assuming Kyo is telling the truth and neither role got changed)

I wasn't going to out this, but ok. I also rolled a town parity cop. Mine was an even-night parity cop, so I wouldn't expect anything before D5. (Unless it is a pick-2 variant; I was assuming it was not.)

[Marashu]

At this rate, I'm going to guess 2 more players. :V

[Marashu]

I agree that rolled town roles shouldn't out (at least, not yet.) Saying you rolled a town role is fine, but I'd rather if scum didn't know what we have. Exception: If you rolled town and a miller-like modifier, I think we should out those(alignment and mod) but not the PR.

[Marashu]

I won't disclose my second role, but, I rolled a 6, ____, 7. So I'm useless on odd nights.

Did you get your own role/roll?

[Marashu]

Wouldn't everyone say they were town? Unless if it was a really weird Jester?

so whats the point of this ofc every one will clime town but smbs said they rolled scum . so shes at least honest . but there is ww and other people cults and people from outer space.[/quote]
I mean, only 6/13 have claimed alignment of what they rolled; so far it's 4:1:0:0:1:0. I don't know if it's more likely to have overlap in a single faction or to have all the factions represented.

[Marashu]

Sorry, messed up the quote

[Marashu]

Overtired and trying to follow along with the discussion around cyrus. I'm also suspecting that he's lying about the PGO part of his setup claim, but I'm trying to figure out if that's pro-town or not. Hopefully this'll make more sense in the morning.

[Marashu]

I am confused if we are made claiming rolls or not - some say yes some say claim nothing can someone clarify thanks

The argument for claiming is so that we all know the setup, making it harder for scum to fakeclaim. The argument against is that it gives scum a chance to know what Town can do, plus 5 roles were changed so they could try to fake-claim through that. Also, it's possible that scum got their own role card, or scum got their partner's rolecard and are able to lie about that.

Now that I'm thinking about it more clearly, it would actually be pretty bad if someone were NK'd without saying what they rolled, so I think I'm in favour of people claiming their rolls (not roles) after all.

[Marashu]

I don't. But if we see something that isn't claimed, we'll know someone's lying. And if there are people who haven't claimed who get NK'd, then that makes it easier to lie without getting caught.

[Marashu]

3 scum counting cult. If we don't find the leader fast that becomes a huge problem. And still 3 people who haven't claimed, so there might be more.

PEdit - is there a town reason to lie about rolls?

[Marashu]

Nah. Wanna help me find the leader?

[Marashu]

I don't. But if we see something that isn't claimed, we'll know someone's lying. And if there are people who haven't claimed who get NK'd, then that makes it easier to lie without getting caught.

5 roles were fudged t6o make it more balance so what could they be so far only two people claimed to have rolled scum . how could a two scum team be balance here?

Took me a minute to realize what you're saying here - yeah, it's possible that one of the fudged rolls could have been the alignment die.

[Marashu]

I've got James and redtea in my townpile for now. kyouko might be scum, but probably not cult. Dwlee's 23 and Thor Ragnarok's 219 have me worried that they might be cult leader, but I don't know if either would be that blatant.

[Marashu]

Marashu is playing similar to Donner Party so lean town for now.

... the one I modded?

[Marashu]

If I was cult leader I don't prompt finding out if there was a cult.

WIFOM - if you are leader, you know that town's aware of you anyway.

[Marashu]

UNVOTE:

Hunter is either town or unpartnered scum here - I don't think he asks that if he has a PT. Also, Hunter, if you look at your sent messages, it will show the results of your rolls. Use that with the chart in the setup post.

[Marashu]

@redtea how did you get a SL off Robert?

[Marashu]

After doing that and doing some pondering about mechanics, 3 things came to mind before anything else.
First of all, in 33 Dwlee tells us he rolled a Town Parity Cop with a Multitasking modification, as such, I put down the scores for such a role, in the list earlier.
The numbers he gave us were, [12, 8, 14] the 12 means Town, the 8 means Parity Cop, the 14 means Rampaging. Note, Rampaging, not Multitasking.

Secondly, in 14 we get told he rolled a Mason role, we don't have a Mason role revealed by anybody.

Thirdly, we are informed by redtea that there is a Mafia Fruit Vendor, I'm not going to say I don't believe this but for now I'll say I'm neutral on this claim. My reasoning for this is as follows, if we assume redtea initially rolled Town Fruit Vendor, and was then giving a non-Town role, him revealing the Fruit Vendor as Mafia, means the Fruit Vendor can no longer use their abilities, as they'd be seen as scum for doing so (correct me if I'm incorrect). So if there is a Town Fruit Vendor hiding out there somewhere, can you reveal yourself if so? If not I believe it is safe to assume redtea is telling the truth at least in terms of alignment.

It is possible that I might be able to give fruit. My role was not in the list. I suspect I might have cyrus' roll.

[Marashu]

UNVOTE:

Hunter is either town or unpartnered scum here - I don't think he asks that if he has a PT. Also, Hunter, if you look at your sent messages, it will show the results of your rolls. Use that with the chart in the setup post.

I don't really understand the unvote unless you are prioritizing team scum over other scum factions and intentional dumb tells do exist. Whats his scum game like? I think Hunter's play is scummy so....I'm voting there for now.

My vote was still the RVS vote on Dragon. As for Hunter, well, he's a naturally scummy player even as town, but as scum I think he does rely on the PT.

Then again, that was before whatever that gambit was. That was... weird. VOTE: Robert M Hunter

I am prioritizing finding Cult Leader over finding a scum team. I'm not ignoring team scum, but I'd rather focus on stopping the cult before it gets too big to manage. I've never played in a cult game before, but I'd imagine that in a game like this, they would want to fish for roles that are beneficial to them, while hunting for scum because they can't cult them if they have a PT.

[Marashu]

flavor

"Boo! Survivor!" one particularly adventurous scummer yells. No clear consensus can be had on a game.

Now that we've all claimed what our rolls were, I was wondering if anyone had rolled a 20 for alignment because of this. I don't know if there would be hints in the flavour, though.

[Marashu]

Entirely honest:

It is possible that I might be able to give fruit.

I don't understand. You're claiming a non-Mafia aligned Fruit Vendor, of which was the role that cyrus62 lied about?

I am not claiming Fruit Vendor. I am claiming that, as town, I may or may not be able to give fruit. The way cyrus claimed it is what made me think he might be lying, since I do not see my role in the list. Read into the rest of it as you will.

while hunting for scum because they can't cult them if they have a PT.

Where was this mentioned? I can't find a comment on it on the Wiki.

See:

• Town and 3p members are always able to be culted. Groupscum are able to be culted if there are no other members of their team left alive. Atheists (Mason-type who know they aren't Cult) cannot be culted.

[Marashu]

Entirely honest:

It is possible that I might be able to give fruit.

I don't understand. You're claiming a non-Mafia aligned Fruit Vendor, of which was the role that cyrus62 lied about?

I am not claiming Fruit Vendor. I am claiming that, as town, I may or may not be able to give fruit. The way cyrus claimed it is what made me think he might be lying, since I do not see my role in the list. Read into the rest of it as you will.

while hunting for scum because they can't cult them if they have a PT.

Where was this mentioned? I can't find a comment on it on the Wiki.

See:

• Town and 3p members are always able to be culted. Groupscum are able to be culted if there are no other members of their team left alive. Atheists (Mason-type who know they aren't Cult) cannot be culted.

I said 7 7 1 pgo no mod wth saying I said fruit vendor I haven't lied and I get very very upset being acused of such even if it's a game . I'll go ape over it very quickly I don't lie.

*shrugs* then it must have been someone else who lied.

[Marashu]

On the subject of that list, it should probably be updated for dwlee's mistake of rampaging and not multitasking.

Thor, let's assume you don't get culted and that you want to win as town. How would you plan on doing so?

kyouko, throw me a bone here - where's your head at?

[Marashu]

Just realized rampaging parity cop might double as a watcher. Would it compare everyone that night, or would it need to wait for the following night, and get a list where everyone is compared against the 2nd target? Unless it doesn't give names, and just a list of trues and falses.

[Marashu]

Now that I'm thinking about it, 5 and 14 aren't exactly that close on the list...

[Marashu]

@james

i was seconding the "why"- bc i dont know whats suspicious about the "because".

redtea town

so whats the deal with rmh exactly?

Not loving me some tea and I'm from the south

this close to omgusing you swear

He's blatant town for the gambit and is by far my strongest townread.

I disagree. Why would town!Robert feel the need to make plays for an ego boost after losing as mafia? I could see him feeling the need to redeem himself as scum!Robert, but if I were in his shoes, I don't think I would feel like I need to pull off big plays as town because I lost as scum, because the approach as town and the approach as scum are different.

[Marashu]

As for my pool of 6: Cyrus, Nero, Thor, Cakez, Dragon, and RMH:

That is the order they claimed in. Cyrus claimed first, and is not likely to lie, so I'm striking him right away. Cakez's roll, if true, will most likely be able to differentiated from the others because of the 2 modifiers, and would then only possibly conflict with Nero's roll if Cakez's 2d20 ended up with 1 modifier.

For this my pool narrows to Nero, Thor, Dragon, and RMH. The later the claim, the more likely it was claimed specifically to be obfuscated by the previous claims. So RMH is first in line for me. Also I think his "gambit" might have just been him overreacting to possibly having scumslipped 2 games in a row (this being the second game)

Thanks. Your reads are all very mechanics-heavy and not so much based on play so far. I don't really like it, but I also don't hate it. It's just making it really tough to read you when you don't give opinions on plays. I do think that what you're saying is useful, probably helpful, and hopefully not framing a narrative. For now I think it's likely pro-town.

[Marashu]

As for my pool of 6: Cyrus, Nero, Thor, Cakez, Dragon, and RMH:

That is the order they claimed in. Cyrus claimed first, and is not likely to lie, so I'm striking him right away. Cakez's roll, if true, will most likely be able to differentiated from the others because of the 2 modifiers, and would then only possibly conflict with Nero's roll if Cakez's 2d20 ended up with 1 modifier.

For this my pool narrows to Nero, Thor, Dragon, and RMH. The later the claim, the more likely it was claimed specifically to be obfuscated by the previous claims. So RMH is first in line for me. Also I think his "gambit" might have just been him overreacting to possibly having scumslipped 2 games in a row (this being the second game)

Thanks. Your reads are all very mechanics-heavy and not so much based on play so far. I don't really like it, but I also don't hate it. It's just making it really tough to read you when you don't give opinions on plays. I do think that what you're saying is useful, probably helpful, and hopefully not framing a narrative. For now I think it's likely pro-town.

@mara . Out of t3 rmh or Thor do you think one of these three could be the cult leader.

Out of those three? Robert. I've already said he doesn't feel like scum with a PT, and this doesn't feel town-y. I honestly have no clue what to make of Thor; right now he just kinda feels like unhelpful town, and I'm not sure Cult Leader would be so blatant. As for T3, does cult leader ever open with this?

never under any circumstances claim what you rolled unless someone has claimed it

@Robert, if you are town, I don't want to see plays, I want to see reads. That's what would be most helpful right now.

PEdit - that's the slot we're trying to find, or at least that I'm trying to find. Meg claims to have rolled it, not to have received it, and I'm not sure that a cult leader would out that they rolled that if they received their own role. Might be scum (haven't seen anything from that slot), but almost certainly not cult.

[Marashu]

Oh, in the PEdit I thought it was cyrus who asked that because you often have multiple posts quickly. Didn't realize it was Robert. But my point stands.

[Marashu]

You're really confusing me right now.

If a roleblocker blocks Meg, it stops whatever her role would try to do. It's a 1/13 that she got what she rolled, and 12/13 that she did not get what she rolled. I'm of the opinion that it is very unlikely not just because of math but because she outed it, that she is not Cult Leader.

[Marashu]

Hold up.

I am assuming that cults are bad

even though some posts give me the impression that they are are good.

What posts?

[Marashu]

I have another question for you but I want to hear a reply first.

[Marashu]

Ok. I think I could see how you would be confused by that.

My follow-up: Did you really believe, during game, that people's rolls are the same as the roles they received?

[Marashu]

I'm going to bed but I really want to get my point across or else it'll keep me up. I really want to understand your train of thought here, Robert.

If you did believe it, then you should have had 3 claimed scum: Meg, Kyouko, and Redtea. Why did you not vote for any of them?

If you didn't believe it, why are you trying to act like Meg is claimed Cult Leader because of the roll claim?

[Marashu]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not above policy limming Thor. Cyrus is anti town every game in the way that his play doesn't make any sense, but I at least believe when he rolls town he is

trying

to play in a pro-town way. Thor just doesn't gaf here and I don't like that. He deserves to be limmed for playing purposefully anti-town regardless of alignment

I mean, since Thor has pretty much said he's only going to use his vote to help if we get a guilty, I'm not against this.

[Marashu]

UNVOTE:
I'm not sure how likely this is, but I think it's POSSIBLE that Robert did get confused mid-game. So I'm taking a chance here that the blatant AtE isn't scum-motivated.

James, who do you think is likely cult?

[Marashu]

Also, Robert, any reads yet?

[Marashu]

I know javascript and could double-check the work if it's allowed by the rules, but not before this evening.

[Marashu]

Lunchbreak posting

This reminds me of WYLTBMH. Thor

was

town who deliberately locktowned scum and then tried to get limmed so he would join the scum.

Hopefully not this game; that would go against rule 4 and might end up with a ban. But I'll wait until postgame to worry about that.

[Marashu]

I see something that may be nothing, but I want it out sooner rather than later. Looking at claims, who appears to have whose roles, and I noticed this about the roles:

James claims to have rolled town even night tracker. He also says scum has no incentive to lie because it can get caught in the poe. This tells me that as scum, he might have told the truth about his role.

Suppose scum!James knows about a Tracker - he knows that a tracker can soft guilty his team if the Tracker targets the killer. But what if the killer is a Multitasking Voyeur? Or a multitasking anything, for that matter? The tracker will see they went 2 places.

However, a Doubled role can also go 2 places in one night. I wonder if T3 and Dragon, or James and Dragon, or all 3 of them, are staging this kind of cover by claiming they rolled roles that can feasibly be mistaken for actual roles that they rolled for the town.

James ties into this because he's POEd himself into claiming Doubled Neighborizer by claiming what he

is not

, unless he received his own roll or he is lying about his role (as scum).

I think one of the rolecops should check James tonight because it will mechanically prove he's lied about his role or roll if he is not a Neighborizer or Tracker. It's possible one of he rolecop roll-claims is fake so unless you as a rolecop have a strong feeling someone else may be the cult leader and you want to check them for a bus driver role, you should check James. It may be ideal for both to check James, in case only 1 exists, or in case the one that checks him is roleblocked or killed (or culted, though James is unlikely to be the cult leader)

In fact because he can be mechanically caught tomorrow and he is unlikely to be cult I'm going to UNVOTE:

Bolded part relies on James telling the truth about believing that scum not having incentive to lie about rolls.

[Marashu]

I'm not feeling anything from Nero, but Dwlee's kinda been nagging at me all game.

VOTE: Dwlee

[Marashu]

I have a kinda dumb q. Only a cult bus driver has been claimed. No way the mod keeps a stand alone cult in the game right? So does make someone's role a cr or is it like rmh said that the cult bd is also a cr?

19

- Cult

Granted Cult Leader abilities as well. Re-roll this as Third Party if a Cult Leader already exists.

There's only one for now; if there were more rolled one would be rerolled. 1 cult with no cult limit in a 13p game is still a threat.

[Marashu]

Mechanics are the most interesting parts of mafia

This is the post I am referring to, where James is digging his heels in about loving mechanics. Now, hear me out, I have almost no experience playing town, so take it with a grain of salt, but his mechanics Ted Talks seems very earnest and useful. They don't appear to be thrown around as a distraction. They follow a stepwise, natural course of inquiry. Can someone explain to me why this is scummy?

Because it's easy for scum to avoid faking reads by talking about mechanics instead. Appear to be helping while not really contributing, all while pushing a narrative explaining why mechanics back up a (false) solve.

[Marashu]

Sorry, gonna be lurking for the next day or so - house guest over for the first time in over a year.

[Marashu]

okay
I guess my main question is "why the focus on the cult?" Based on the setup details I guess the cult could end up being quite powerful if allowed any traction but idk what exactly dictated the stuff that happened with the role rand

I mean, no cult limit, possible double or multitasking (or both!) cult leader, and only 13 players with mafia also around to cut down numbers? Getting cult early seems like a good idea to me. If we can't get CL, I will gladly go for partnered scum, but I know where my priority lies.

[Marashu]

okay
I guess my main question is "why the focus on the cult?" Based on the setup details I guess the cult could end up being quite powerful if allowed any traction but idk what exactly dictated the stuff that happened with the role rand

I mean, no cult limit, possible double or multitasking (or both!) cult leader, and only 13 players with mafia also around to cut down numbers? Getting cult early seems like a good idea to me. If we can't get CL, I will gladly go for partnered scum, but I know where my priority lies.

yeah this makes sense
do we have any leads to who it is or anything?

Nothing strong - I've ruled out RMH from my POE, and I really don't think it's kyouko or T3. James might be scum but is probably not cult.

I won't have time to check until tomorrow, but I think I remember someone saying they were on the list? I suspect Mafia might be hunting people off the list, so they might have claimed that so they don't get hit by a stray bullet N1. Don't really remember who it is, though.

[Marashu]

Oh, I also don't think Meg as cult would out that she received her own cult roll/role, so you're also probably not cult.

[Marashu]

James said he was on the list I think

James and Thor.

[Marashu]

Marashu #974
what makes you think kyouko isn't deepwolfing as cult?

The fact that it's hard to think of them as a deepwolf is what makes them a deepwolf, though. Sure, the mechanical play at first could have been buying time to see who was townread and who wasn't, but the thought process in 499 through to 534 felt town to me. I think the biggest point I disagree on with kyouko is that she wants mafia to try to shoot cult; I don't think mafia will be that helpful to town since they are safe from culting.

[Marashu]

@mod

I'd also like a vote count please - with a bit over a day left, I'd like to know who's at what so we can coordinate.

If we don't get one in like an hour, I can try to make an unofficial one just to be able to work with.

[Marashu]

VOTE: Dwlee

Who are you town reads, ssbm?

RMH, Marashu, Thor, and if they aren't cult, Dwlee and Cyrus.

Just saw this. Including people you think may be scum in your town reads seems strange. I'm assuming that since you're voting for Dwlee, you think Dwlee!cult > Dwlee!town, so why in your town reads?

[Marashu]

I'm starting to feel cold about Dwlee tbh. Two things kinda jumped out at me with his recent play that I've been thinking about

in circles

. First, he was ready to claim with 2, maybe 3 votes. Either that's scum buckling under pressure or impatient town. Second, when I said I was looking for people on the list, his reaction was to point me to James. That is NAI, but I feel like scum!Dwlee would quote the post to try to get me to vote there.

I'm not against voting Thor and might consolidate there. I hadn't really considered redtea very deeply beyond getting townish vibes. I can review that. I'm against cyrus, and I think I'm against James right now but am willing to revisit that D2. As for Cakez... because cakez keeps getting brought up, I keep looking, but I'm really having a hard time seeing scum!cakez, let alone cult!cakez.

[Marashu]

Interesting that redtea asked me about whether I thought kyouko could be deepwolf, without also raising the possibility that I could be deepwolf. A lot of comments about others who are culthunting could really apply to myself as well. So I'm not entirely sure what redtea was trying to accomplish besides maybe shake up towncore.

[Marashu]

3) We don't know if there's a mafia or werewolf recruiter as well as a cult one, what is he talking about?

What makes you think there is?

[Marashu]

VOTE: Thor

[Marashu]

UNVOTE:

Ok. I get the logic, but I agree with DotW and Nero in that it wasn't handled the best. With no CC's, I think this is one of the better roles for you because it doesn't keep us guessing through the rest of the game. And in a power madness game like this, scum will more likely be looking for strong players over strong roles.

[Marashu]

(PS - mafia should test if that's his role with their fruit vendor. Follow me for more pro strats)

[Marashu]

Hey Gamma, why is Cakez scum?

[Marashu]

@mod

I didn't see it in the rules, if we hit deadline, is there no elimination, or does the person with the most votes get eliminated?

[Marashu]

Well we have to consolidate somewhere and I guess it's not gonna be James at this point?

I'm actually considering it right now. I was just reviewing the ISO

[Marashu]

Like, there's one claim I would believe from James, and I'd say he's town for sure. Anything else... *shrugs*

[Marashu]

Well, maybe not for sure.

[Marashu]

James is the one who said that scum had no reason to lie about rolls, right? I mean, the obvious counter to that is so that they can make fake claims for each other. And if he's CL, well, he did claim on the list...

PEdit - Yeah, cult is scary, so I guess they might hunt for cult. But a soft cop means that it's still just 1 cult leader and no cultists, so they can't act on it right away.

[Marashu]

Cakes screams of cult gamma is rght

Hold my hand and walk me through it

[Marashu]

cyrus: cakez is screaming cultist
also cyrus: here's reasons why 3 other people, not cakez, are cultist.

I'm getting mixed messages here...

[Marashu]

I'm not about to believe cult isn't real. That's not on the table for me.

[Marashu]

Ok. Don't mind me, then. Carry on.

[Marashu]

the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

I mean Jesus fuck, you were cult hunting all day and someone rolled cult. Am I really the only one that thinks this is B.S?

Not gonna lie, it made me super nervous when I read it.

[Marashu]

Like, I need to know your thought process kyouko.

[Marashu]

What if it was 5 town rolls that got fudged to make diffent fictions ?

If there's more than one NK that'll become obvious pretty quickly.

[Marashu]

could we stop using the words "if cult doesn't exist"? Especially this close to deadline.

[Marashu]

Thanks.

I'm willing to consolidate onto James or Cakez, since either is better than no elim. VOTE: SirCakez

[Marashu]

PS Kyouko please come back I want to hear from you before the day ends

[Marashu]

Robert, while you're here, I recommend moving your vote. Thor isn't happening today. Probably not tomorrow either.

[Marashu]

kyouko isn't happening.

right now it's looking like cakez/cyrus/gamma are the main options, with interest in james as well. I strongly do not think gamma should be the choice for today, for the record.

[Marashu]

Unofficial VC to help us keep track

SirCakez (3):

T3, Gamma Emerald, Marashu

cyrus62 (2):

JamesTheNames, Dragon of the West

Gamma Emerald (2):

ssbm_Kyouko, redtea

ssbm_Kyouko (2):

Nero Cain, cyrus62

Thor Ragnarok (1):

Robert M Hunter

JamesTheNames (1):

Dwlee99

Gamma Emerald (1):

SirCakez

Robert M Hunter (1):

Thor Ragnarok

[Marashu]

Oh I was trying to update the votecount myself. I noticed something peculiar. After this version of my votecount where Marashu put Thor at (4), Nero unvoted to cause Thor to lose the lead position and become head to head with SirCakez with (3) each.

I strongly recommend reading the posts between my vote and Nero's unvote.

[Marashu]

If you trust anything I say this game, trust that there is a cult.

That said, assuming cult does exist, does your vote stay on Gamma?

[Marashu]

I'm going to bed and will be back in like 7 hours - I would be willing to switch to a james wagon. I am not willing to switch to a gamma or cyrus wagon.

[Marashu]

Around-ish but working - I'll be able to switch my vote if it becomes necessary.

[Marashu]

Is there time to go for James?

VOTE: James

[Marashu]

i'm Town Odd Parity Cop, I assume I was modified cuz nobody claimed they rolled this specific combo

daycult thor

I'd like Cakez to get a night action off that he can give us or get nightkilled

what night action he hasn't claimed shit.

[Marashu]

Wait did I just accidentally catch Cyrus lol

I think so?

[Marashu]

I was on cakez not cyrus, but I think that's still E-1 anyway

[Marashu]

Just... ok.

Assuming we're in a world where Dwlee's roll mistake and a multitasking PC exist in the same game, AND where multitasking lets you use the Doubled modifier's power... The more I say this, the more improbable it sounds, so I'm just going to stop myself there before I ask my question.

[Marashu]

That's a variation...I guess it's possible that's being used here but normal parity cop just selects 1

Parity Cop's unmodified ability is "At night you may send me the name of a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn if your target's alignment matches your previous target's."

[Marashu]

The biggest downside is that I like to ISO people after they flip. I'm not looking forward to cyrus' ISO.

[Marashu]

I was going to fill that gap if you didn't - I can hammer.

[Marashu]

Oh, I thought gamma was on cyrus already

[Marashu]

Since we have a guaranteed hour of twilight, possibly more - cyrus, who's cult?

[Marashu]

(assuming it isn't you)

[Marashu]

VOTE: cyrus

[Marashu]

I'm kinda tempted to ask cakez to target Thor. But then mafia could interfere with it. So I leave that to your discretion, cakez.

[Marashu]

(of course assuming cyrus is scum)

[Marashu]

Still like 20 minutes of twilight.

If we could coordinate it, instead of cakez checking Thor, our voyeur could; if they turn up dead on top of the night kill we'd know they checked thor. Since scum doesn't know who that is and it's a fairly weak role, it might be worth considering.

[Marashu]

I hink voyeur should watch whoever they think is likely to get culted, that's probably ideal

Agreed. So nevermind my plan, go with this one.

[Marashu]

If it is 10:2:1 and cyrus was mafia, then suddenly mafia is at risk of being culted.

[Marashu]

Might be why cyrus kept trying to say there might be another faction, but I'm leery about believing him. I think Thor might have also said that?

But yeah, we're probably in like a 9:3:1 or 9:2:1:1 or something.

[Marashu]

a bit over an hour, but cook's probably cooking up some flavour, so I'm ok with it.

[Marashu]

The wildest part about all this is that cyrus was telling the truth about his role AND the CC would have caught Cakez' lie. I'm trying to figure out why mafia would know that Cakez' claim is a fake considering 3 people rolled Parity Cop.

[Marashu]

Scary thought, though. Cakez culted someone else, then voyeured the PGO.

[Marashu]

Yeah, I don't know. Just trying to think of worst-case scenarios.

[Marashu]

1-shot double vig?

1) that would require a 20 for the 3rd roll
2) that would require you getting your own roll (1/13)
3) If you thought cakez, why T3?

[Marashu]

@Dragon I did, kind of. I made some stream of consciousness notes as I was going through that I want to review.

[Marashu]

1-shot double vig?

1) that would require a 20 for the 3rd roll
2) that would require you getting your own roll (1/13)
3) If you thought cakez, why T3?

i think you misunderstand
he's revealing his actual roll, and his role. His roll was town roleblocker 1d4-shot, his role is one-shot double vig.

to me that instantly makes sense. In my mind at least, they were definitely a "one or the other is probably scum" pair.

Ok, yeah, that makes way more sense than what I was seeing.

[Marashu]

Survivor wins in endgame whether or not town wins.

[Marashu]

Just did a little list. FMPOV game feels POEd. I think Dragon/Nero/Gamma should end it. Would like full claims from all 3, will start with

VOTE: Dragon

Because killing James confirms your roll was true and is motivation for scum!you to kill him

My PoE right now is basically Nero/Gamma/{Thor/Dragon} in about that order.

Because either the 2 kills came from town!RMH or rampaging factional kill made 3 kills

Or 2 scum factions doubled up on a kill. For the record, I'm inclined to believe that there's only mafia remaining.

[Marashu]

Is Thor really the PGO

Cyrus62

- [7, 7, 1] Town Paranoid Gun Owner with no modification - 72

This role was rolled by scum, so it goes without saying that it's very likely that cyrus would lie about the dice roll so that his scummy friend Thor could claim PGO and be immune from being targeted.

I had a big old scum read yesterday on Thor, so it makes sense to me that they are scum together.

I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, the way that cyrus outed his roll - he was being vague about his roll because at the start of the day he wanted rolls to be hidden. He only came out with his roll after James caught the crumb, at which point he talked about the crumb quite a bit. But my thought at the time was that he only went along with it because James provided it to him. He was suddenly keen on outing it because of what the wiki said on recommended play, but if he had rolled it I think he would have known ahead of time. In 439 he was getting weirdly defensive about how he wasn't lying, and whenever anyone brought it up, he would shoot the thought down right away.

Meanwhile, Thor's entrance was just that he was confused - no context. He didn't really start posting until after cyrus claimed his roll, and by that point he already had a potential fake claim ready. Their biggest interaction was that story reading interaction, though I did flag 295 as standing out as strange. That whole exchange was strange, though, in that it didn't really go anywhere. And if he was confused scum, that gave plenty of time for coaching.

So yeah, I really don't want to clear Thor yet. He's still lingering in my PoE because of this.

[Marashu]

Did that post make sense?

Yes

[Marashu]

Y AM I IN YOUR POE?

I'm pretty sure dwlee, redtea, and kyouko are town, Robert's game has been +town, especially D2. I had Dragon/Thor as my last PoE but with Thor's play today I think I prefer him over Dragon. Beyond that, it's PoE.

Isn't Thor near 100% scum at this point? What was the flaw in my reasoning and Marashu's?

viewtopic.php?p=12976965#p12976965

I regret not vigging Thor, I changed my choice from Thor to T3 in the middle of the night. Now I'm smacking my head over it.

I don’t think Marashu is even that confident about Thor being scum...?

Not super confident, but I think this is also a slot that can be resolved later. That said, Thor's play today has just been to turtle - rely on the PGO claim to challenge anyone to night action target him, while attacking people who question his towniness. I haven't seen any critical thinking here. I would absolutely believe 3PS here, but would also not risk letting him live if he changes his claim.

[Marashu]

I think if Nero is mafia, Thor is his partner and would want that slot flipped next.

[Marashu]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Marashu]

Why is it not credible? Someone rolled it. Why should we think that the mod got rid of it?

See:

cyrus62

was eliminated. He was a

Mafia Doubled Parity Cop

[Marashu]

I thought he was lying about his roll when he was town, to be fair. Him flipping scum didn't do much to improve that.

[Marashu]

EBWOP: *when I thought he was town

[Marashu]

Why is it not credible? Someone rolled it. Why should we think that the mod got rid of it?

(PS - I'll be out of town from mid-morning Saturday until Sunday afternoon)

[Marashu]

I'ma retract my Nero/Thor team statement. I was misremembering an order of events - I thought Nero had come up with a premature TR on Thor and then started distancing, but that is completely wrong, so disregard it.

[Marashu]

I'ma retract my Nero/Thor team statement. I was misremembering an order of events - I thought Nero had come up with a premature TR on Thor and then started distancing, but that is completely wrong, so disregard it.

translation: now that Thor is voting Nero I need to stop calling Thor scum so he can help me push this miselim through.

This was basically a prod dodge

Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty possible that either of you are scum. It's just that my reasoning for the two of you being partners was wrong.

[Marashu]

No one is concerned that someone lied about rolling my role? Is there a strategic reason for that, that I am not seeing?

I kind of expect scum to lie, and there's any number of reasons for them to do so. The trouble is, what do you do with the knowledge that someone lied about it? It might be useful when massclaim happens, but until then, there's not much we can do about that line of questioning.

[Marashu]

redtea, why is robert in your poe?

[Marashu]

If nero's not happening, I'm ok with gamma. VOTE: Gamma

[Marashu]

I actually think I prefer a Thor elim over a Gamma claim at this point. VOTE: Thor

[Marashu]

what error? If you mean the part about you claiming, that's not an error. More than forcing a claim from you today, I'd rather if we get rid of Thor and wait until the massclaim tomorrow to hear what you are.

[Marashu]

I guess it isn't, though I thought it was?

[Marashu]

If Thor's really off the table, then I propose this:

tonight I will target Thor

. I encourage at least one other person to do so as well. If I'm the only death and at least one other person did target him, then Thor was lying.

[Marashu]

Or we just lim Thor because I don't think he is doing anything anyway.

We'll call this Plan A. My idea can be Plan B.

[Marashu]

Your suggestion of this makes you less likely to be scum though.

you know he can just say he's going to target you and doesn't actually have to target you, right?

If he is mafia and lying, can he afford to take that chance?

[Marashu]

I'll claim first in massclaim tomorrow so I'll be locked in before any results on me

I thought tomorrow was only massclaim if we mislimmed/couldn't find cult? We've got 1 scum and the CL...I don't see a reason to massclaim D3

I think I missed that somehow. It makes sense.

[Marashu]

I actually think I prefer a Thor elim over a Gamma claim at this point. VOTE: Thor

Can we at least get a gamma claim first? We aren't getting much new info from a Thor lim right now if he flips green

Alright. I'm still decently sure Thor will flip red, though.

VOTE: Gamma

PEdit: heading out but I'll read Dragon's post in like 20 minutes

[Marashu]

Mara are you like voting Gamma to get him to claim or what?

.......

VOTE: Thor

[Marashu]

DotW you should check the n1 flips again

What do we think the starting setup was? As I understand it, RMH claimed one shot. If there end up being multiple NKs tonight then we can assess that tomorrow but I don't think we should be assuming mass claim tomorrow. Even if we assume two people rolled cult so one got rolled to 3rd party:

T/S/C/3P
D1: 9/2/1/1 or 8/3/1/1?
D2: 7/1/0/1 or 6/2/0/1?
D3 on mislim: 5/1/0/1 or 4/2/0/1

Am I off on this? Or do we think it's likely there's a second NK?

That sounds accurate - if there is another scum team on top of the 3P, it's probably a solo scumteam. But right now I don't believe that's likely.

[Marashu]

okay what about thor
is thor okay
we can agree on thor
thor's good? we can do that?
we have 15 hours i do not want to nolim

Deadline happens between two meetings for me, so I can check in and change votes if necessary to make something go through.

[Marashu]

Yeah idk the merits of more than one person targeting there? Like, that’s just more dead bodies if Thor is what he claims.

If someone got my even night parity cop (PS - if that one wasn't fudged, then I'm sorry you got that role in a game that potentially has a double vig), that might not be a bad person to target Thor. That said, the easiest way to find out is to flip him, and depending on who got it, scumhunting skills > role power.

[Marashu]

GG, and well played werewolf team!

I kinda said this in the dead thread, but a world didn't exist where I RB kyouko, who was a top townread of mine.

[Marashu]

Were you choosing to no-kill in order to hide your presence?

[Marashu]

Ah! Well, I'd say it worked to your advantage, anyway.

[Marashu]

I can't believe I rolled scum again! I have such bad luck. Thank you for giving me a chance to play a game to the end, that was very exciting first time.

Yeah, that's really unfortunate, but you pulled it off very well! After being NK'd I had a thought where if you were scum double vig then it was already GG - and even then I didn't think that you were werewolf!

[Marashu]

I am bad at mafia

I was ready to lead the entire town into targeting a PGO. You at least were an NK. No worries. PS - who did you try to recruit?

[Marashu]

So if even night parity cop wasn't one of the fudged rolls, who got it? I'm curious about what the 5 fudged rolls are, and night actions in general.

[Marashu]

I guess we're not getting the PTs?

Either way, thanks again for running this, Cook!

[Marashu]

Yay, my 1-shot protect actually protected!

Those were all good reads, especially the werewolf PT.