Open 93 - Near Vanilla: Game Over, Mafia Win!

[Doktor Per]

Hascow's "I just replaced in" analysis(AKA, I'll read a few pages and then post my thoughts on certain things in those pages):

Pages 1-3

Post 7 - k7: Not random already? With a daystart and him not even posting yet?
Post 9 - Darox: I really dislike policy lynches.
Post 11 - Sineish: I don't see this as a valid reason
Post 15 - Darox: I still dislike policy lynches.
Post 20 - Darox: Lurking, while anti-town, doesn't mean someone is scum.
Post 27 - Sineish: I quite like this post. Per seemed a little too keen on a wagon that started with him making a "random vote"
Post 28 - SSK: Right, because the thread link was IN YOUR PM. Seriously now....
Post 35 - Darox: No, not necessarily scum. Town lurks too. Policy lynches are bad.
Post 39 - Darox: Get off it. Seriously. This is getting scummy.
Post 40 - zazier: This just seems a bit noncommital. You're responding to things, but not commenting on them. It looks like you're trying to moderate a debate.
Post 41 - Per: You've got to be kidding. You should really have better reasons at this point.
Post 42 - Gamma: Why the unvote?
Post 43 - gecko: Ah, so you're pretty much following the crowd. Why?
Post 44 - SSK: A good question, actually.
Post 47 - Per: Link?
Post 48 - Darox: GET OFF IT!
Post 50 - Per: Can't you at least let him do something scummy?
Post 53 - armlx: Is there a reason you're asking this?
Post 55 - retrowiz: You should really have a reason for getting someone to L-2 so early.
Post 58 - retro: Please don't fish like this
Post 59 - armlx: Good post.
Post 61 - armlx: Another good post
Post 62 - Per: Well, I'm not a huge fan of this post. It seems like a lot of joking around without really saying anything.
Post 67 - Apoth: Oh, hi. How are you? Anything else to say?
Post 68 - Per: Including yourself?
Post 69 - Per: What non-game related stuff? Why are you getting on them for voting SSK with about the same reasoning as you?
Post 70 - Darox: I'd love reasoning for the votes and FoSes. Plus, the last sentence is extremely scummy.
Post 72 - Darox: But maybe they weren't in some way random. Why are you assuming that?
Post 74 - zazier: good explanation, IMO. Excellent questioning of the wagon

Current thoughts of some players:
Darox - scummy for this tunnel visioned policy lynch. How does this help?
retro - scummy for almost everything up to this point
zazier - seeming town to me. Good explanations for things so far
Per - scummy. Staying on the SSK wagon for what seems to be no reason.
SSK - neutral. Still unhelpful, but not scummy.
armlx - neutral. Where are you? You seem quiet.
Sineish - seems town to me right now. Good insights on Per.

I will not be voting until I am fully caught up, but my current vote would be on Doktor Per or retrowiz.
Expect at least one more analysis post today. Hopefully more than one.

Thanks for the love, scum buddy!

[hasdgfas]

Pages 4-8:

Post 76 - retro: This looks like pure OMGUS to me.
Post 82 - Per: maybe technicall those are the odds, but seriously, there are much better ways than random. That's why we play the game.
Post 83 - Per: False. You can vote someone who has voted you, but you need reasons, and there weren't reasons that I saw behind retro's vote.
Post 86 - Per: What?
Post 91 - Darox: I don't like how Darox is following the crowd.
Post 92 - Per: You don't want to vote for gecko, but you will if he doesn't defend himself well? I don't understand what you're saying here. I don't like the feel of this post.
Post 94 - SSK: Very good question.
Post 98 - gecko: This feels off to me, for some reason.
Post 101 - Per: I don't understand the point of this post at all.
Post 103 - Darox: No, SSK is always anti-town. There is a huge difference.
Post 104 - Per: I really dislike this post. No, you aren't always suspicious if you post a lot. You just post scummy things in posting a lot.
Post 111 - zazier: again, I really like this post by zazier. Good questions for people.
Post 112 - Gamma: Why?
Posts 117-118 - Darox: Those are terrible reasons.
Post 128 - Per: So why did you do it, exactly? Why do something scummy on purpose?
Post 129 - k7: Oh hi, how are you? I forgot you're in this game.
Post 130 - Darox: no, you voted him for a STUPID POLICY LYNCH!
Post 131 - gecko: hand caught in the cookie jar? what does that mean, exactly?
Post 135 - zazier: Wow, very nice.
Post 147 - Korts: Requiring unvotes is scummy. (this is a joke)
Post 154 - Per: I find this to be a silly post. You'd rather we lynch a power role without a claim?
Post 162 - apoth: I don't consider this a post either.
Post 163 - armlx: Or if they're just an idiot.
Post 177 - gecko: You are going to be lynched if you don't claim. Not claiming is an even worse idea than claiming a power role.
Post 183 - SSK: Now I understand why everyone voted for you right away. Where's the PBPA playstyle I've heard about from you?
Post 190 - Per: I consider this to be votable. Never claim scum, even as a joke, because I usually find the people who joke about being scum are scum.
Post 194 - afat: L-2 in a 13 player game is usually last resort time period. No, dragging it out is not good. Short days hurt town, but so do really long days. Terrible vote on armlx here.
Post 198 - afat: Almost everyone is pushing it.

Thoughts on players now that I'm on page 8:
retro: still seems scummy for jumping on SSK(?) terribly and OMGUSing.
Per: I am willing to vote Per just based on post 190, and nothing else he has said has made me think he's town.
Darox: I find him quite scummy. The SSK thing, and what seems to be following the crowd when SSK-wagon stalled.
zazier: Definitely feel she's town at this point.
SSK: still neutral. a couple all right posts, then some bad ones.
armlx: There you are. Forget the 'where are you?' comment now.
gecko: I don't like gecko at this point

PREVIEW EDIT: I don't usually vote before I've caught up, but I feel like I can

unvote, vote Doktor Per

.

[armlx]

I have legitimate concerns that unless Doktor is scum, he is in violation of

# Play to win the game.

Thoughts? Not saying this is indicative of him being scum, but more an issue that should be dealt with on a higher level.

[Riceballtail]

I'm actually thinking he may be even if he is scum.

[Darox]

hascow, you realize the entire point of my SSK wagon push was to kickstart the game and give me some leads? Hence the analysis of who joined the wagon and who opposed it.

Sure, MafiaSSK is always lurkerscum, but policy lynching day one just for the sake of it is always a bad idea.

[hasdgfas]

hascow, you realize the entire point of my SSK wagon push was to kickstart the game and give me some leads? Hence the analysis of who joined the wagon and who opposed it.

Sure, MafiaSSK is always lurkerscum, but policy lynching day one just for the sake of it is always a bad idea.

I'm on page 8-9. My thoughts are subject to change, but it has seemed quite scummy to me so far.

[hasdgfas]

Pages 9-16

Post 203 - afat: This is just silly. Why are you still on armlx when others want him to claim too?
Post 205 - afat: L-2 is a great place to claim. Plus, L-2 usually isn't 'very few people' finding him suspicious.
Post 208 - afat: In the old days, people had 9 pages total in a game and the town still won sometimes. It's plenty of information.
Post 211 - Darox: Hmm, not a terrible post. It's exactly what I was thinking. The no reason to extend the day thing, at least.
Post 217 - afat: It's a freaking claim! It's not a lynch yet! Plus, again with a sort-of-claim of scum. I don't like that at all.
Post 226 - afat: We can look at the other suspicious players later. Why should we look at everyone on day 1 instead of finding out the alignment of at least one of the other suspicious players first?
Post 236 - afat: *sigh* we're not rushing into the lynch. It's just a claim right now. We can decide after that whether or not to lynch him.
Post 246 - afat: Longer days are not necessarily better for the town. I can't explain it that well though.
Post 250 - armlx: Oh, there we go. That's why.
Post 253 - gecko: Reactions to claim are very, very important, gecko, whether or not you're a power role. Plus, even if you claim a power role, the scum might not kill you because of how suspicious you've been throughout the day, etc.
Post 258 - afat: Wow, this is ridiculous. So you vote him just to get a role claim even though you had just not wanted one because it was too early? S-C-U-M-M-Y!
Post 261 - afat: Oh, so you were giving a Chainsaw Defense, tarhalindur style. So much better
Post 270 - afat: If you say something that you claim is wifom, your point is null. Plus, now you're definitely defending him.
Post 286 - afat: yes, the scummiest player should be lynched. You had already voted him, which, IMO, should mean you wouldn't be sad with his lynch.
Post 287 - Per: ???
Post 292 - afat: What a wonderful misrepresentation of zazier.
Post 296 - afat: really? I don't think I've seen them.
Post 298 - afat: what?
Post 299 - afat: what?
Post 300 - afat: what?
Post 302 - armlx: Sure looks like it.
Post 303 - afat: These aren't cases, these are calling out lurkers.
Post 304 - afat: see 303
Post 308 - afat: Sure it is.
Post 309 - SSK: like now?........
Post 316 - apoth: I don't consider this a post either.
Post 329 - Darox: good question
Post 347 - SSK: So when, exactly, do you do PBPAs?
Post 350 - armlx: Why is it less indicative of him being scum if gecko turns up town?
Post 359 - afat: How is this playstyle not pro-town?
Post 383 - gecko: So you don't think afat is scum, but you're voting for him so that you don't get lynched? wonderful...


current scumminess thoughts
afatchic: Probably the scummiest person so far by a longshot. Misreps, blatant defense of gecko, etc.
gecko: Seems pretty scummy
Per: I haven't really seen anything good from him. His vote of gecko seems a bit off, and the scum claim still annoys me.
SSK: Whenever I see a post by SSK(or k7 for that matter) I start to cry inside, because of how useless they are.

[kuribo]

I'll post my post-by-post tomorrow. I wasn't going to do that because it's more of a pain to type them than it is to just read the posts, but I find it helps me organize my thoughts better. And it gives people a window into my mind. (eww)

[retrowiz]

Darox has never claimed it to be any of the above...quite the assumption!

Its pretty obvious it was....

yep you caught me, im scum. dang why would i make such a careless mistake. darn.

I can only imagine. It does happen a lot.

Obvious? the only thing obvious in the game is Scum. I have a question for you but first I still need a reply from Darox in regards to this.

[Korts]

Nth Vote Count

(6) thegeckoj -armlx, Darox, MafiaSSK, Doktor Per, Sineish, Riceballtail (Lynch -1)

(2) afatchic -ZazieR, thegeckoj
(1) Doktor Per -hascow
(1) ZazieR -afatchic

not voting:

killa seven, kuribo, retrowiz

Seven to lynch.

Post 147 - Korts: Requiring unvotes is scummy.

Oh yeah, how scummy is modkilling?

[retrowiz]

I should be on the "not voting" list

corrected

[retrowiz]

I have legitimate concerns that unless Doktor is scum, he is in violation of

# Play to win the game.

Thoughts? Not saying this is indicative of him being scum, but more an issue that should be dealt with on a higher level.

why is he not trying to win?

[Korts]

Doktor Per, this is your first and only warning, public or otherwise. Claiming others to be your scumbuddy won't be tolerated a third (?) time; nor will be another claim of any role not included on the first page role list. Please, either take the game more seriously, or request replacement.

Acting against my requests as of this post will get you modkilled.

EDIT: note the added rule.

[kuribo]

Yeah, I'm not doing a post-by-post after all.

On page 4, I don't like gecko's kinda freaking out about a vote or two on him.

I don't like k7 and SSK's lack of participation, but this is the norm for them.

Man, you guys really like when your bandwagons pick up steam really fast. By page 5, SSK, retro, and gecko have all come close to the gallows. I don't like gecko's reactions.

Dok Per doesn't want a claim. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. And I once saw a move called "Ankle Biters," which was about vampire midgets. Armlx states that in a far nicer way.

K7 says that he should claim so we can focus on lynching scum. What gives you the idea that gecko is pro-town?

gecko refuses to claim. How nice of you to hinder the town like that. Completely gives up, further hindering the town. (I did this too the first time I was scum) Fatchic votes Armlx. (wait, what?) doesn't think opportunism is scummy. (it is, town don't have to worry about opportunism) wants to keep the day going for more information.

Darox and armlx don't think the day needs to be much longer. (True, I hate excessively long days because they hurt the town) fatchic wants to hear from the people that haven't posted much. (If they haven't been posting, they're not likely to post more) fatchic says he's not trying to stall the wagon, even though he wants the day extended longer. How do you extend a day without stalling the wagon?

fatchic asks why Darox is voting gecko. Try reading the thread? fatchic is afraid of a quicklynch, but doesn't like gecko's responses. Where is gecko in all of this, kuribo wonders? Doktor pops in and fatty wants his opinion. Sine points out why it's good for people to claim at L-2. (I agree)

fatchic completely flip-flops now and votes gecko. I don't understand this any more than I understand quantum physics. And believe me, I don't know jackcrap about quantum physics. How the hell does voting him up to L-1 achieve fatchic's goal of extending the day?

gecko predictably claims vanilla. fatchic predictably unvotes. Armlx and Darox find this scummy, Zazier points out why. (And she's right) Zazier votes fatchic for good reason. fatchic claims to be posting cases. (He's not, he's just defending gecko) Also wants the lurkers lynched. (A little late for that) Talk about K7's avatar. (What was your avatar?)

fatchic votes Zazier for meta reasons. Sine is in on this too, with a very good catch regarding what looks like fat chic coaching gecko.

fatchic gets called out on blatant misrepresentation. gecko jumps on the fatchic wagon (way to repay your scumbuddy for taking it for the team) dok hops onto the gecko wagon. says gecko, fatty, and mafia are still under pressure. (i don't think there's any pressure on SSK right now) Geez, fatchic and gecko are just begging to be lynched, but which first? gecko says he's 100% town. (good to know!) asks to be hammered. (oh grow up) fatchic wants confirmation on that. (are you sad that your scumbuddy gave up?)

RBT's first read is pretty close to my first read, though I disagree about retro: he's always like this.

RBT attempts to hammer gecko and fails.

kuribo replaces in. I can't stand this retard.

fatchic and gecko my two biggest suspects. everyone else seems mostly solid but my opinion is subject to change.

[kuribo]

later tonight / early tomorrow i'll look over hasd's analysis to pick that apart too, but for now, hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work i go

[Doktor Per]

I apologize for my behavior. Expect my play style to change, effective immediately.

Hascow, despite my playful offhanded comment at you, I enjoy your posts, you seem like smart town, at the moment but I am always skeptical. I can't really fault you for finding my play style scummy, as we all have our own little interpret things in our own way and I do hope that your belief is sincere, because otherwise I'll feel very offended when the curtains fall. Most of my posts so far have been poking at other people's logic, this is not a case of unable to see the splinter in my eye because of the stake in yours.

I refuse to defend my style, though I see that the bullshit claiming may have been inappropriate.

[afatchic]

Kuribo your right im beggin to be lynched. i was just trying to defend my scum buddy on a wagon that is quite obviously gonna end in his lynch just so i would get caught too. dang you are smart. i would actually like to be lynched right now just so i can laugh at everyone of you when you find out im a vanilla townie when you are just so sure im scum right now. so go ahead... lynch me first.

[kuribo]

Kuribo your right im beggin to be lynched. i was just trying to defend my scum buddy on a wagon that is quite obviously gonna end in his lynch just so i would get caught too. dang you are smart. i would actually like to be lynched right now just so i can laugh at everyone of you when you find out im a vanilla townie when you are just so sure im scum right now. so go ahead... lynch me first.

oh calm down with the appeal to emotion, you're a better player than this

[afatchic]

im not trying to "appeal to emotion", i honestly would like to get lynched at this point. i play this game to have fun and to have fun only. when i get attacked for everything i say, no matter what i say, its no longer fun. i defended someone who i didn't think deserved to be lynched yet and i have gotten attacked for it. so yeah right now it doesn't bother me a bit if everyone would like to lynch me before gecko

[Korts]

Kuribo your right im beggin to be lynched. i was just trying to defend my scum buddy on a wagon that is quite obviously gonna end in his lynch just so i would get caught too. dang you are smart. i would actually like to be lynched right now just so i can laugh at everyone of you when you find out im a vanilla townie when you are just so sure im scum right now. so go ahead... lynch me first.

This post is in borderline violation of the added (+1) rule. Since it hasn't been 24 hours since the rule was added, you will only recieve a warning, but be told, there is no more leniency after this.

[afatchic]

the part of claiming him as my scum buddy was sarcasm, sorry. i didn't notice the new rule.

[Sineish]

i would actually like to be lynched right now just so i can laugh at everyone of you when you find out im a vanilla townie when you are just so sure im scum right now. so go ahead... lynch me first.

Whether this is an appeal to emotion or not, which I find debatable, it is certainly a claim. Since you're some way off a lynch today, this doesn't help the town at all.

I'm still happy with my vote for thegeckoj though.

[retrowiz]

the part of claiming him as my scum buddy was sarcasm, sorry. i didn't notice the new rule.

for me it was also the "lynch me first" Junk.

[hasdgfas]

Pages 17-present

Post 402 - gecko: Why do you feel the need to point out the vote totals?
Post 410 - afat: back up? When was he ever truly up there?
Post 419 - gecko: If you don't think he's scum, don't vote for him. Wow. Yes, it's a long day, but defend yourself better or make a good case.
Post 434 - Per: Why are you telling the scum whom to kill? And why would they listen?
Post 444 - gecko: What? Where did this come from?
Post 460 - afat: I don't like this post for some reason.
Post 472 - RBT: Why FoSes on those in particular?
Post 474 - RBT: CO=me right now, so why was his lurking worse than some other players, such as SSK?
Post 484 - gecko: Wow, I'm convinced
Post 486 - Per: Um, what?
Post 487 - Darox: Not gecko himself, the wagon. This seems to be a blatant misrep to me.
Post 492 - SSK: Why should he be? He's done more than you have.
Post 503 - retro: mishammer? what now?
Post 509 - retro: Oh, ok then. That makes slightly more sense.
Post 510 - Per: Buddy, what now?
Post 515 - armlx: How sure are you that it's a misreading? He hasn't commented on it yet.
Post 516 - afat: You didn't think he was a townie, though.
Post 518 - afat: I think this kind of thing has happened already, but I am always willing to lynch people for claiming scum, even when they're being sarcastic about it.
Post 533 - retro: Wait, how are the scum obvious?

Anyways, here are my current 'who is scummy?' thoughts:
gecko: I haven't liked his defenses since he's been under pressure. I could live with a gecko lynch.
Per: He seems to be joking around a little too much. Then there's the scumbuddy claim(s?). I'm always willing to lynch that.
darox: I still don't like the early SSK wagon and Darox's actions while on it. He's also been really quiet since then, which I find strange. Not my top suspect, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on him.
SSK: Needs to talk or be replaced.
afatchic: Definitely the best lynch right now, even over gecko. There is nothing at all that makes me want to let him survive to day 2.

unvote, vote afatchic

[Darox]

Just for the record, I thought it was obvious the gecko wagon thing was a misread on my part.