Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow we get to kill scum AND I get to be lazy and outsource the fire and brimstone to somebody channeling the pure righteous anger of a favorite character done dirty.

Niceu.

Maybe if I'm good enough at town this game scum will be forced to use my brainwashed effect to kill myself, and we can have everything fit together.

Wondering what if scum didnt know who you were and the only way to break the brainwash is if they try to target you with the brainwashed kill :/

Is this a scumslip

[Kate Bishop]

Hi, just wondering where your heads at LLD?

my head is at: sobbing miserably because i am flying back home tomorrow and will miss girlfriend and hate my job and just am not really into this whole deal

we're kind of blending, so apologies if you're not getting 100% Rhi rn

I’m sorry to hear that :/

Ninja
Again with the SSBM Shit? Jesus fucking Christ how can you look at Dunn’s play and not see he’s in anti-spew mode

[Gamma Emerald]

You might have a point but that doesn’t preclude kyouko from being scum

[Dunnstral]

I'm not in anti-spew, I've given my opinions, I have my poe, it's just been summarily ignored.

[Lukewarm]

Sorry I have been a bit mia. Spent all day moving into my new apartment yesterday.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think S_S would be able to use their own role in death I think there would be special dead powers

So not doctor

I think my role indicates they should be the same in death, otherwise my watcher is unlikely to be useable in a game with this much kill power.

Which is also why I was thinking due to the length it took for that to come online, it might indicate that death was where the real game took place, but seems that's not the case since we got flips.

Kate's role too, my guess is they can still vig someone in their hood from the grave

Doesn't this lend credence to my role? Otherwise it can only be used on s_s when they are alive?

That's the point I think. Being an undead magnet is negative utility for town, and positive for scum imo. Anything anyone tries to do would be redirected. If I tried to track a scumread from the grave, I would see what S_S did and be none the wiser until after he died most likely, unless he decided to claim.

If you hadn't claimed anything here as scum, my track from the grave could falsely guilty someone else if you killed and my tracker got magnetized on to you.

Another active role we know town has is doctor - as a magnet, scum would be immune from vigilante kills no matter who S_S tried to doctor. As the doctor, S_S would never benefit from this.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I kinda feel it's just Dunn gamma cabd based on the shade coming my way from Gamma/Cabd because I have not just tunneled on Dunn today. But it would be easy for scum to bus today with a soft guilty on Dunn, so I'm not 100% sold on that team. Also feel like they've both mentioned their reads dont make a lot of sense, which is something I find myself thinking when I'm scum and have TRed too many town players. At some point the numbers dont add up, it gets hard for scum to have 3 reasonable.scumreads at this point because so many players are town telling or are pseudo-cleared by claims, that you have to start scumreading your buddies or your reads just dont make sense. That's kinda what happened to me.in large 233. The game was so close to POEd by clears I was forced to scumread and eliminate Titus, or my reads would just not have made any sense.

[Kate Bishop]

GuyInFreezer

Giffy had a fine entrance to the game, and there was a decent chunk of solving. Combining this with his claim, a role that removes him from elimination contention, I find it hard to believe he is scum. There are some issues in his ISO, (read:EOD1 hammer) but I still think odds are he’s more town than not. I think that hammer is a ballsy move for Giffy to make as scum.

When discussing with fairylit, she notes his confidence as one of the big points in his favor here- particularly in his final statements about us letting wheme slip through the cracks. She also compared to Illicit, where he played a much goofier game compared to his srsbsns play here.

Lukewarm

I’ll start with the elephant in the room- my biggest issue with Luke’s play so far was his reaction to the fakehammer. Gamma and I have already discussed this earlier on today, but I felt like it was not a genuine response.

That being said, there are redeeming parts of his play in this game (it’s why he's in the top tier of our reads!). I really liked him digging into Cabd’s claim, particularly the flavor parts. As those of us that were present during Bloodstained remember, he was very big into analyzing the flavor to try and sort out what is going on.

Second, his paranoia today has screamed town to the high heavens. It has thawed even my icy heart. 3601 reminds me of the Bloodstained Titus case. 3626 is just frankly, too batshit to be scum. My biggest issue with his recent readslist is I don’t think Gamma/Wheme make sense together, but I understand I am not everybody.

Lady Lambadelta

LLD’s claim is the very first thing that makes me think town, but I need to consider loltowndesharder. When I look at her play under the microscope, her notable things from day one were pushing to eliminate people who proceeded to both flip town. And I understand I am in a glass house here and not trying to dispute it, but it is something that factors into my read. We are both a little curious as to her vote on us over the no discussion vote. We wish she was doing more things today and I do hope she reads this and engages more! Particularly on the Cabd section, as I value her opinion on the topics I’m going to discuss in it.

Overall she is in my POE but I am leaning her town and Dunn scum.

[Kate Bishop]

I am dropping them a few at a time, Gamma and Cabd will each have their own post. This is the transcription I made mid-late last week.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Your post links are broken, they probably are pointing to your hydra pt.

[Kate Bishop]

God fucking dammit

[Gamma Emerald]

Talk about an agenda

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunn, who’s scum to you, and why?

[Kate Bishop]

I have very clearly said I think you/Cabd/Dunn is the scumteam multiple times.

Your entire day 2 ISO is discrediting us into discrediting SSBM, with some "LOOK GUYS MY ROLE FITS IN WITH THESE ROLES" for good measure.

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe it’s because you haven’t done a damn thing to merit my trust and neither has kyouko, but you rush to each other’s defense the minute someone calls you out

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: kate bishop
Its transparent to me atp that they are trying to close out their scum win and thus basically maintaining an angle on practically every slot to push from except for kyouko
Kyouko is also technically acceptable but I think I’d rather get rid of Kate because while I don’t buy the claim as stated I think they’ve got something up their sleeve n3

[Kate Bishop]

Your trust?

Do not want.

[Kate Bishop]

GuyInFreezer

Giffy had a fine entrance to the game, and there was a decent chunk of solving. Combining this with his claim, a role that removes him from elimination contention, I find it hard to believe he is scum. There are some issues in his ISO, (read:EOD1 hammer) but I still think odds are he’s more town than not. I think that hammer is a ballsy move for Giffy to make as scum.

When discussing with fairylit, she notes his confidence as one of the big points in his favor here- particularly in his final statements about us letting wheme slip through the cracks. She also compared to Illicit, where he played a much goofier game compared to his srsbsns play here.

Lukewarm

I’ll start with the elephant in the room- my biggest issue with Luke’s play so far was his reaction to the fakehammer. Gamma and I have already discussed this earlier on today, but I felt like it was not a genuine response.

That being said, there are redeeming parts of his play in this game (it’s why he's in the top tier of our reads!). I really liked him digging into Cabd’s claim, particularly the flavor parts. As those of us that were present during Bloodstained remember, he was very big into analyzing the flavor to try and sort out what is going on.

Second, his paranoia today has screamed town to the high heavens. It has thawed even my icy heart. 3601 reminds me of the Bloodstained Titus case. 3626 is just frankly, too batshit to be scum. My biggest issue with his recent readslist is I don’t think Gamma/Wheme make sense together, but I understand I am not everybody.

Lady Lambadelta

LLD’s claim is the very first thing that makes me think town, but I need to consider loltowndesharder. When I look at her play under the microscope, her notable things from day one were pushing to eliminate people who proceeded to both flip town. And I understand I am in a glass house here and not trying to dispute it, but it is something that factors into my read. We are both a little curious as to her vote on us over the no discussion vote. We wish she was doing more things today and I do hope she reads this and engages more! Particularly on the Cabd section, as I value her opinion on the topics I’m going to discuss in it.

Overall she is in my POE but I am leaning her town and Dunn scum.

Gamma Emerald

Gamma is an interesting case. First off, let’s discuss their claim. 3768 gamma claims the characters looked alike, but when I compared Rem to Shiro I find it hard to believe this? I could be wrong but wanted to bring this to the general attention. The reason this bothers me ties in with the claim, as Cabd and Gamma have BOTH pointed out out, this is very similar to a certain Beloved Princess claim in a recently completed game. But therein lies the problem- I have NEVER played with a Beloved Princess. And now, all of a sudden, there’s two consecutive? This stretches what I am willing to believe. I suppose the point I’m positing here is if it’s possible that Gamma is lying but claimed a flavor that would fit a beloved princess. This can be taken as its entire own point, and is unique from the others as this is purely speculation on what is going on here.

Now, let’s look at marci’s play- hardcore lurking. As we all know, Scum-marci went down in three hours in Tarot. She has done absolutely nothing of consequence here, besides make one quote wall and make a post about why she was not doing things, but the slot coasted entirely through day one off of Cabd’s (incorrect) say. Had this not occurred, the slot would have most likely faced increased scrutiny. There’s also the notes from Luke about how marci is not likely to be playing the crumbing game like that, at all.

Coming into today, as I’ve already reiterated multiple times, Gamma seems of a one-track mind to discredit us. He admits to this in 3791, that a good chunk of his play today has been a pursuit of revenge for the S_S elim. This parallel’s a comment he has made in Haunted Village regarding MurderCat, one of the main pushers to follow a crumbed guilty on his scum partner. Note how he attempts to use shade over an incorrect read in an early stage of the game to try and pull favor. The strange part of this is his fixation on us. Yes, we did derail the Whemestar wagon (who Gamma now believes is town and has ignored this), onto S_S. But there were other votes on the wagon too. Particularly, Cabd. My issue with Gamma’s play today is that despite a devolving read on Cabd that Gamma speaks to in 3816, there is a dramatic difference in his approaches to us and Cabd despite both of us being on the day one elimination.

Assuming his claim is truthful, there is the core point that Gamma helped vote out the very role that he admits could help handle his role. And while we are on the subject of this vote, let’s take a look at the reasons Gamma gives for his vote, shall we? 3373 He notes it was a snap decision, but tried to change it in the notes PT to wheme. This is my first eyebrow raise, as it is hard to understand submitting an action one way then expecting a submission in another way to count? It seems like a copout. This then kinda gets retconned in 3937, which focuses more on the not digesting the Titus flip enough and ignores the supposed missed vote altogether.

A final note that bugs me is that his scumteam (from the time this was originally written) is similar to the same list WE posted, just with us over him. I find it hard to believe people think we make sense as scum with Cabd, but I understand I might be too close to the issue to see the big picture. Others can feel free to weigh in on this and tell me if they do see it, however. His scumread on Cabd changes as of 4125, around the same time he starts his "do a no elim" for Dunn!

Let’s discuss Gamma’s reaction to the guilty, shall we? He is staunchly in the camp to leave Dunn alive, going so far as to repeatedly attempt to discredit ssbm(4093, 4094, 4193, 4289). This is interesting to me, as when I review Haunted Village, I have Gamma insisting to leave his buddy alive based solely off a fakeclaim, attempting to ignore a crumbed guilty. We also have him saying not to trust us similar to how he tried to make people not trust MurderCat. A similar stance about not trusting someone regarding a townie trying to defend MurderCat. This is an example of Gamma stalling and asking for another day off the guilty, comparable to this, and this. Gamma's recent scumteam is both the person with the guilty and the person trying to see the guilty through! Who's the third? Dunno, you'll have to ask him!

In non-guilty meta data, Gamma pretending to be lost despite a guilty compared to a similar tact pulled here, despite a more drawn out day.

Cabd

This is the part everyone has been waiting for.

Let’s start with the claim. I’ve already said I find it incredibly hard to believe it is a happy accident Cabd posted my exact crumbed word four posts later, so I don’t believe his “I wouldn’t let a masonizer fferysci live” on that principle.

Second, even if I DO believe that, let’s look at his intro to today. It almost feels like he’s worried we had a guilty on him with it. But that’s how I feel about his interpretation to our crumbs. I just find it weird we are on such opposite sides of the spectrum with this given combined history.

I’m going to not go into Gamma associatives at this point, but I think there is a plethora of suspicious interactions there.

The manatee vote is absolutely awful. As much as Cabd’s tried to insist that it isn’t similar at all to Yggrasill, I disagree. He had a scumpool in 2512 that as the pre-day elim had multiple townflips in. One of which was Titus, who while not flipping at EOD1 did flip overnight and had multiple people with LESS setup background in the same pool of what happened. It’s really strange to me that Cabd would both not vote no-elim, and then be so singleminded and not consider all options before voting manatee. Manatee, who provides town a second elim and a second chance to hit scum. Who flipped town.

Now, let’s look at how Cabd has approached us today! The main focus of his posting has been us, which is standard. However, it is about our read, getting us to see his alignment. To use a bork turn of phrase, he’s trying to play around this tonally. There is so much focus on hitting the frustration that we can’t see his alignment (which is weird given last he spoke he was scumreading us, despite alluding to the read changing over the course of the day) but no focus on finding the scum if it is outside of him. It feels a lot like shutting down to avoid giving out any more information than anything else to me.

Even the morph interactions on 9/15 feel like Cabd is petitioning fairylit to change my read. There is a good amount of AtE, a lot of the same heartstrings I played myself on the backend of Bloodstained. But then consistently dodges opportunities to talk about the other members of the game- and I realize he is sick and am taking this with a grain of salt, but it’s still concerning. He likened my confidence to Yggdrasil morph, but with worse reads. Despite not commenting on any read but his own. This hyper-fixation on his own play instead of the world around him is concerning.

He even is trying to play a “Explain how scum me would play this role” despite knowing that a supposed scum-Cabd would know his buddies flavor, and could easily make a statement like that that would either A) be claimed with someone or b) be viewed as a red herring altogether. He explicitly said he wanted to play it how Bell should have played it, and I struggle to see why we should townread him for it? For playing the role to the letter how its supposed to be played with no variation, in a game where the entire context lies in variation?

I’ve sat back and let fairylit try to talk to him and get him reimmersed, and all he’s tried to do is “show her the light.” Cabd has shown he knows how to get on her good side, and he’s going all out to do that instead of trying to find the scum that we would supposedly be missing. That’s my problem with his play today, and this all is why I need a second opinion from LLD.

[Kate Bishop]

I have reposted the top three with fixed links, as well as provided easy access for those of you too lazy to do your meta homework.

[Lukewarm]

Dunn, who’s scum to you, and why?

VOTE: kate bishop
Its transparent to me atp that they are trying to close out their scum win and thus basically maintaining an angle on practically every slot to push from except for kyouko
Kyouko is also technically acceptable but I think I’d rather get rid of Kate because while I don’t buy the claim as stated I think they’ve got something up their sleeve n3

Gamma, these posts feel especially disingenuous when the cases Kate had dropped at this point were 5 town cases, 1 null case, and 1 scum case. From poe, you could work out who they were gonna have as scum (you), but "maintaining an angle on practically every slot to push from except Kyouko" is hard to buy when they just dropped 5 green (not even yellow) names

[Lukewarm]

You case on Kate seems to be "they town read kyouko, and therefore must be scum" which is pretty weak sauce

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Gamma

[Lukewarm]

I have a headache, so I am not gonna dig up posts. But I scum read Marci day 1, I scum read Gamma's catch up day 1. The only reason I did not push that slot to be the elim was because of Cabd's big "no touchie" sign that ended up being bunk anyways.

They keep accusing Kate of having an agenda, but scrolling through their iso, they have an agenda. Like, I invite people to open their iso and "ctrl+f" Kate and look at their posts for the day. They really do respond to everything Kate says by attacking it. It is especially clunky surrounding Cabd. First attacking Kate for scum reading cabd, then saying that they were scum reading kate and cabd both for a while.

I also really liked that quote from Marci that Wheme grabbed. I don't feel like it makes sense, because marci was looking for the "right way to use" her ability, and then gamma claimed a purely negative utility role. And gamma's response was that Marci must have misunderstood her role....

[Lukewarm]

Oh, and his claim took ages.

It felt like he was trying to make a claim that fit with Marci's worry about the ability, and also fit with the "cute flat lass, fluffy" line from Cabd that marci agreed with.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hmm