Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[Roden]

also i still think gamma is probably mafia and maybe not with NM

I'm too lazy to figure out who #3 is can we just kill t3

I'm also ok with killing NM now that I think about it some more.

there is some chance he is mafia and if he is town it is ok since he usually scumsides anyway so it's not really a loss if we flip town NM

You think Gamma is scum and NM is town, so you want to vote NM...?

[Aristeia]

I would say the probability of Gamma being scum is higher than the probability of NM being scum since I can see Scum!Gamma treating Town!Nm like this also.

however I am ok with killing NM because NM!town has tilted me in the last few games we've played together and he is closer to his scum meta than his town meta

[Roden]

I know what you mean about NM, unfortunately.

What's your scum case on Gamma? I'm not seeing much in your ISO besides a gut feeling and an interaction with NM.

[Mewtaph]

Please clarify what pressure you applied with your posting, and how this is different than pressure that I am referring to.

There's wagon pressure and there's vote pressure. My vote wasn't threatening a wagon, it was invoking a reaction. I got said reaction. That's all.

- Why wouldn't you address Margot's read on you in her read list when I asked you about her in 271?

Didn't think of much of it at the time or at least I have doubts that discussion between me and Margot would be productive seeing as she has me as her biggest scumread for "galaxy brain takes" but has Datisi as a strong town read under the same term. Just means that how I continue to post will continue to ping her as scummy.

If I didn't think that discussion would likely be productive towards me and another player, withholding that information and just observing so I can try to get a better read on Margot seems like a better line of play imo, but also slightly pointless now because they were busy and didn't post much so I ended up posting it anyway, mostly because I was pushed for reads by IC. If I had it my way I wouldn't even post reads at that particular point truthfully.

- How can you say here "I'm not exactly sure what's to dislike about my posts directed to Salsabil Faria specifically" when you said in 15/19 that you saw the possibility to receive votes for your post directed to Salsabil Faria?

What I'm referring to here are the posts that Margot refers to during her read on me in 199: where Margot refers to 39 and 48 for her read. What I said in 15 still stands and I'm not trying to deny it here.

- You criticize ssbm for using meta against you, but I also used meta against you in 271. Why push her and not me for it?

Yours made sense to me: you referring to building pressure and how I did that in a town game and how I'm not doing it here. ssbm's doesn't sit well with me for reasons I explained. That being said they explained it enough at this point where I have to accept that they're probably going to be stuck on me for the forseeable future.

[Mewtaph]

There are a few players being cautious around locking in as town too early, T3 and Datisi. I think both are townier than not right now but that also just gives me pause.

does this mean that you read us as town, but you're cautious about committing to the read? if so, what about us is giving you pause (and what do you find townie about t3?)? if that's not what you meant, can you rephrase?

First question - yes. What's giving me pause is scumranges. As much as I'd like to lock my townreads in confidently and move on I think I'll find it hard to do so this game specifically with your two slots. The reason I'm townreading T3 - a level of engagement or disengagement with the game that I think comes off as townie and is hard, but not impossible to replicate as scum. Datisi, your play similarly is also most likely within your scum range but I think it's hard to keep your level of gamesolving up as scum without pushing yourself into a corner eventually. I haven't played with T3 before but it seems that other players that have played with him before (Margot) are giving him credit for his scumgame so I'm doing the same.

Disengagement on day 1 is actually pretty strongly indicative for me because meta

Figured.

[Mewtaph]

So I explained why I voted Kyouko when I did but I'm not really feeling that scum!Kyouko pushes forth post 420. I don't think that wagon is going anywhere either, however I also don't particularly think that IV's entrance is scum indicative. Keeping my vote off the table for now.

UNVOTE:

[Mewtaph]

Please don't make me explain that. I feel like I'll have to at some point due to how many people are scumreading me so I'll explain both right now. It seems unlikely for scum!Kyouko to push a scum-tell on me knowing that I'm town. I hate explaining this because it's only really applicable from my perspective but I'm probably going to have to explain it at some point anyway. I don't think a weak entrance from IV is necessarily scum indicative either; if anything I'm slightly townleaning them for it.

There, I paid my dues.

[datsi]

Spoiler: For Datisi

*gag*
While I don’t dislike all of Taylor Swift’s work on principle that particular song I cannot stand
Sorry to barge in on private ground but I always open those spoilers just out of morbid curiosity and I had a visceral reaction I have to make clear

[datsi]

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

[Salsabil Faria]

There are a few players being cautious around locking in as town too early, T3 and Datisi. I think both are townier than not right now but that also just gives me pause.

does this mean that you read us as town, but you're cautious about committing to the read? if so, what about us is giving you pause (and what do you find townie about t3?)? if that's not what you meant, can you rephrase?

First question - yes. What's giving me pause is scumranges. As much as I'd like to lock my townreads in confidently and move on I think I'll find it hard to do so this game specifically with your two slots. The reason I'm townreading T3 - a level of engagement or disengagement with the game that I think comes off as townie and is hard, but not impossible to replicate as scum. Datisi, your play similarly is also most likely within your scum range but I think it's hard to keep your level of gamesolving up as scum without pushing yourself into a corner eventually. I haven't played with T3 before but it seems that other players that have played with him before (Margot) are giving him credit for his scumgame so I'm doing the same.

So you trust

MR

's read/observation on

T3

? If so, can you tell me why? It’s confusing because I don’t think you have

MR

as a townread yet?

[Salsabil Faria]

1 like = 1 thank

My instinct upon seeing this is noting how there's no sense of urgency here to address my post. Seems like something town!Kyouko would be interested in addressing, while scum!Kyouko is more comfortable with leaving it in the air so their vote remains occupied on me (and not elsewhere in the gamestate).

Don't get it either

[Mewtaph]

There are a few players being cautious around locking in as town too early, T3 and Datisi. I think both are townier than not right now but that also just gives me pause.

does this mean that you read us as town, but you're cautious about committing to the read? if so, what about us is giving you pause (and what do you find townie about t3?)? if that's not what you meant, can you rephrase?

First question - yes. What's giving me pause is scumranges. As much as I'd like to lock my townreads in confidently and move on I think I'll find it hard to do so this game specifically with your two slots. The reason I'm townreading T3 - a level of engagement or disengagement with the game that I think comes off as townie and is hard, but not impossible to replicate as scum. Datisi, your play similarly is also most likely within your scum range but I think it's hard to keep your level of gamesolving up as scum without pushing yourself into a corner eventually. I haven't played with T3 before but it seems that other players that have played with him before (Margot) are giving him credit for his scumgame so I'm doing the same.

So you trust

MR

's read/observation on

T3

? If so, can you tell me why? It’s confusing because I don’t think you have

MR

as a townread yet?

I reached T3 being townie on my own terms. I am not townreading MR right now, no.

[Mewtaph]

1 like = 1 thank

My instinct upon seeing this is noting how there's no sense of urgency here to address my post. Seems like something town!Kyouko would be interested in addressing, while scum!Kyouko is more comfortable with leaving it in the air so their vote remains occupied on me (and not elsewhere in the gamestate).

Don't get it either

I'm speaking to urgency to address my post (332 at the time). Votes on me bad from my perspective as either alignment, but I'd rather avoid people tunneling me... also as both alignments. Under Kyouko's read on me having scumtold this game as correct, if my intention was to build town-cred through 10 and 12, I certainly did a pretty poor job at it.

[Salsabil Faria]

my solve is currently datsi/NM/T3

dont @me

@Aristeia - Could you go into some of these in some level of depth?

^This is how far I currently am in a reread. I have thoughts to add on datsi. I've come to expect him to not vibe with me regardless of both of our alignments, so nothing is off there. I do think I can read him well with time and am just going to postpone that.

Dwlee I still think could have been pocketing me before I realized Roden was IC but overall they seem like town!dwlee so far.

I tried to meta MargotRosa the other day just before Mewtaph, because the parroting pinged me, but the words she used are part of her normal vernacular and I couldn't find evidence of her parroting as a scumtell in other games.

Speaking of Mewtaph, specifically what I found in his meta is that as scum he has made a big deal of getting the game out of RVS. It was a newbie game from a long time ago but he hasn't played many games. I think he's still new to scum and that this is still a viable tell. *puts on a tinfoil hat* Now for the juicy bit. Datisi coming into the game swinging on Mewtaph's opener could be a partner interaction. My theory is that Mewtaph came into the PT and voiced that he is new and/or uncomfortable playing scum. Datisi strikes me as a good scum player (have not metad them yet, but I get the vibe from their posting that they would be good at it), and I think that they could have planned for Datisi to make the push early and veer off in order to discourage wagons later in D1 and build cred for Datisi at the same time. I feel like when someone was a wagon early and their wagon dissipates that town is often hesitant to revisit the first wagon unless they've exhausted other scumreads and realized "hey, my original read might have been right because all these other players I've tried to pressure today are towntelling."

All that said, Datisi could have just sniped Mewtaph's ass and I'm not

convinced

Datisi is scum with Mewtaph. Just wanted to share this.

Aristeia I feel has been lackluster and hasn't been touched yet despite being obviously LHF, so that could be an indication that either scum are content with the current state or she is scum.

Chaos I haven't had to read before as I was scum in Large 233, but cOOl vibrations™ from them so far.

I'm always down to policy N_M early just in case, because I'm likely to defend a policy elim on him later in the game, and if he's scum that could put me in a difficult spot again. Also he left that note on my car in Dead Silence III which he may have accidentally meant to leave on my car in this game where he is actually mafia???

Uhh Roden is IC, voiced opinions on T3... I actually think the "Salsa moonlogic is town" comes from town!T3 so I'm conflicted on his slot atm.

Salsa as well I think is town from the tone and the direction of her questioning. This is a meta read.

I think that's thoughts on everyone but IV who had a weak entrance, and I'm waiting on more from, and Roden who is confirmed.

If I were to make a list right now:

Salsa
ChaosOmega, Dwlee
MargotRosa, Datisi
N_M, datsi*, IV
Aristeia, T3
-
Mewtaph

Nulls: N_M I'm not bothering with yet. I'll try later if I have to. Datsi I think I will be able to read with enough time. innocentvillager needs more posts for me. Aristeia is not falling into null for the same reason as IV because Aristeia's lack of content is being ignored, but IV's is not.

UNVOTE: ssbm

Ok, the town!

ssbm

is here and the @ part was hilarious

Back to business:

Aris

's

don't @me

gives me a ping in a scummy way. I also asked them about the reads but not get any answer yet.

What do you think about

N_M

's millar claim btw as you want to policy eliminate them today?

[Salsabil Faria]

@Aristeia - Could you go into some of these in some level of depth?

if you pull up gamma emerald(datsi)'s iso, he doesn't talk very much about NM, just a throwaway comment about not remembering NM claiming miller before

he has NM as dead null in his list.

I think this means they are mafia together.

T3 feels kind of listless/boring, them losing interest in a game usually leans more scum indicative for me.

I'm not understanding this logic at all... I also didn’t talk about

N_M

than why I'm not the scum? Also, most of the pl didn’t talk about/with them????

Your

T3

read (assuming it’s coming from meta) is also not matching....

[Salsabil Faria]

But I’m town

Is your millar claim serious??

[Salsabil Faria]

They have history together.

It'd be like if I joined this game and didn't talk with you.

It would be very weird

Actually it's not weird with

N_M

which you know already ig thus the reads make no sense to me.

[Salsabil Faria]

is salsa always at the top of post count game? damn

Datisi looks like he’s doing his thing where he’s imposing himself on the game and that scummy jk it’s probably not

I asked you about your vote if it was serious or not. And you didn’t clear whom you voted either.

[Salsabil Faria]

mewtaph is faker 2.0 so prolly town

Nm is miller and therefore confirmed town very cool

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm VT please ignore me

Wtf! I had a bunch of questions

weird unnatural rxn

You're weird dude! Your catch up isn’t making sense to me also, bunch of fluffs!

[Salsabil Faria]

is this what it’s like to do an Ico style catchup? woww

anyways back to work I got through a very productive 5 pages

scum are Datisi salsa and margot
Town are dwlee mewtaph and gamma

Can you explain your reads please?

[Salsabil Faria]

Mewtaph Scumgame Newbie 1764

Slight townread on nydus. His excited opening reminds me of how I felt when I first joined the site. I don't think that scum!nydus would start off their game with what I would describe as almost a surplus of analysis despite not much happening yet.

Howdy Mew! Let's hope this time you don't gloss over obvious scum!
@DBW: I only spoke first because no one else spoke before me.

Haha, I've got a lot more energy to devote to this game than I did in that game, so hopefully such things won't slip past my radar this time round.

You were enthusiastic in the genuine "let's get this show on the road" way, not the current "!!!" way. It's often easy to do the latter while trying to fake the former.

I actually like Gamma so far. I tried to look for what you're saying and I agree that 13 feels over the top but other than that I like the enthusiasm he's trying to bring to the game. It keeps the game moving.

@Van/

DBW

Colored DBW red because he is Mewtaph's partner

: What do you think about the game state thus far?

Mewtaph Towngame Micro 668

I think that analyzing posts during the RVS phase is just a long winded time sink, but since you seem to have to some extent and disagree with me keeping thoughts about some posts, I thought I'd entertain you.
I don't understand the basis of your Transcend vote.
Where I get confused is where your first handful of posts consisted of a video and a doge meme, and your voting someone for making an ego post. How does Transcend's post take it over the top in a sense that translates into scumminess? (to the point of trying to get others to vote him). Yeah, it doesn't contain an RVS vote, but neither does yours.

Notes

As scum, Mewtaph has indicated that getting out of RVS ("keeps the game moving") is towny. He also indicates that deep analysis early on is unlikely to come from scum. As town, he thinks analysus of RVS posts is long-winded and a time sink, which to me indicates he sees it negatively, or scummy, or as anti-town. So he has opposite opinions of early analysis as town and scum. Additionally, the "deep analysis" is often what leads to games coming out of RVS, because it gets people talking about the deep analysis.

I think that Mewtaph made 10/12 for towncred because in his scum mindset, he sees keeping the game moving as towny. I think it is suspicious that in this game, Mewtaph has a placid response to Datisi's over-analysis of Mewtaph's own 10/12, because townreading over-analysis is something he does as scum, but not as town.

Some quotes that support the Notes:

@ChaosOmega: I don't know about likely to get votes, but talking about pressure in the way that I did in my first post does create a potential scenario for votes to come in my direction. Said scenario happened, now the way that it happened being AI or not is up for debate (I'll hold off on commenting on that for now).

10 is a bit directed and selfish for my own read purposes, I'm not going to overjustify it this early on. It is a vote and it is perhaps an easy justification for a vote. When it comes to pretty much every game, I want the game to move away from RVS which is why I made that vote the way that I did.

@Datisi: 12 may seem forced. However, more posts as far as I'm concerned brings the game in a direction further away from RVS which is the spirit of what I created 12 in. I do anticipate how it can come off as forced solvy but prior to that point the thread was still in RVS. 12 wasn't on my mind when I made 10. Looking for spaces to squeeze potential areas to move away from RVS, however, it seeme a reasonable place to start ias any n addition to my first vote to try and get the game state moving.

snipped for brevity

I don't want to get stuck on something that happened on page 2-3. All I'll say is this: I think we're referring to different types of pressure here. I got what I wanted out of my vote, arguably more than I bargained for

since we seemed to have moved out of RVS almost immediately after that post

. If this causes others to scumread me then fine.

I like Margot's intention to do a dive and post a reads list. Do I actually like Margot as town is a different situation entirely and something I'm still going to have to decide on in the posts to come.

I also looked at other games but didn't find anything to contradict my theory, and the other scumgame(s) I found (I know I found at least one) he was a replace-in, so RVS was not discussed in his ISO.

Hmm... I want to see what

Mew

's response for this. Their play style is confusing to me. But I agree, I also felt that they wanted the towncred for moving the game forward from the RVS but at the same time, it attracts attention
where I can't wrapping my head around it. If they're gamble type scum players, then it makes sense ig.

[Salsabil Faria]

IV's posts are meh.

Kyo is looking a little townier.

IV/Mew/deep wolf scum team?

Oh no! No deep wolf please

[Salsabil Faria]

See, I knew it was good to eliminate myself, otherwise I would be on elo and town lost.

Was this meant for the game that just ended?

Nope, this:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87211

[Salsabil Faria]

Evidently I think you're more likely to be town than not because I don't think mafia!you steps on my toes as boldly as you have but I've been wrong before.

in what way does salsa's posts towards you make you think it's unlikely to be scum stepping on toes, that doesn't make you feel so from me/omega?

also, can was there a reason you picked her - taking a cursory glance at your topics, i don't see you've played together before?

It felt unnecessarily stand-offish. Scum can accomplish the same outcome (ie. reaching the conclusion of voting me) without navigating it the way that they did.

I chose her because of all places I could place my vote at the time, 1) this applied genuine pressure at the time, 2 votes being the largest wagon possible. This limited my options to a few people already. From there, I guess you could say it's a guessing game. I could be wrong about my read, as I have gotten similar reactions from both town and mafia. It depends on how things develop from here.

Placing a 2nd vote on someone on page 1 with the reason "Applying additional pressure here. Results of said pressure to be determined" does not apply "genuine pressure". Your last game I see, you were town and entered the game with a naked vote on a building wagon. That can actually build pressure. What you've done this game looks fake.

On an unrelated note Mewtaph, what do you think of Margot?

----

ssbm, what is your read on Mewtaph, and what are your thoughts on the iv wagon forming?

I don't want to get stuck on something that happened on page 2-3. All I'll say is this: I think we're referring to different types of pressure here. I got what I wanted out of my vote, arguably more than I bargained for since we seemed to have moved out of RVS almost immediately after that post. If this causes others to scumread me then fine.

I like Margot's intention to do a dive and post a reads list. Do I actually like Margot as town is a different situation entirely and something I'm still going to have to decide on in the posts to come.

It's not ancient history, it was 10 pages ago. My problem with you is that I think you're lying and now waffling between pivoting to the utility of you making weird posts (it took us out of RVS, that's good, yay me) and still trying to justify your posting as good because it provided pressure and allowed your read on SF to be clearer. Please clarify what pressure you applied with your posting, and how this is different than pressure that I am referring to.

Oh, so it's a serious vote then. Alright.

There are a few players being cautious around locking in as town too early, T3 and Datisi. I think both are townier than not right now but that also just gives me pause.

I don't like ssbm_Kyouko's reasoning for their vote in their last post because trying to meta someone you haven't really played with doesn't really work. Or at least the meta read is going to be shallow as I know that it is wrong here. I know that you replaced into my scum slot but you haven't really engaged with me as players with me being scum and you being town so for you to call me on a scumtell is a little bit unsettling.

I don't understand Margot's scumread on me either. I wasn't exactly trying to do a galaxy brain play, just trying to move the game out of RVS. I'm not exactly sure what's to dislike about my posts directed to Salsabil Faria specifically. Is it because they come off as forced or something else entirely? I have no clue, just that they don't like my posts and that they don't like the AtE coming from my slot (which I don't really spot, but okay).

Of all the votes on me, ChaosOmega's vote makes the most sense to me and he has explained why he thinks my opening comes off poorly and I can see why. Overall though there's just not enough content in his ISO for me to feel comfortable giving him a solidified read. Similarly, Aristeia is in the same boat. Just not enough posts for me to feel comfortable giving a settled read on. Hopefully that changes by the end of the day.

Few things here:
- Why wouldn't you address Margot's read on you in her read list when I asked you about her in 271?
- How can you say here "I'm not exactly sure what's to dislike about my posts directed to Salsabil Faria specifically" when you said in 15/19 that you saw the possibility to receive votes for your post directed to Salsabil Faria?
- You criticize ssbm for using meta against you, but I also used meta against you in 271. Why push her and not me for it?

-----

I'm aware that I'm sort of tunneled here at this point, I don't have any other strong reads right now. I don't feel great about Dwlee, but it's more a vibe than anything, don't have a case to make (and also the last time I played with Dwlee they were town and I pushed them, so this might just be a bias I have against their posting style).

T3, has your read changed on Mewtaph since 118?

CO

, you sounds different which I can't talk about rn but if I'm right then you and

Mew

aren’t TvT, SvS also seems unlikely.