Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Kate Bishop]

Wheme did you get Luke's flavor with your cop?

[Lukewarm]

He said he did not get my character name

[Lukewarm]

You are the deadline guide.

When I die, core game mechanics break for some reason.

The game stops being a majority vote, and turns into a plurality vote system. Also, the length of the day phases changes from 2 weeks, to an unknown deadline that is randomly chosen, but is guaranteed to be more then 1 week long. Because the deadline is unknown, there is no longer a countdown timer given by the mod.

So this is the info he got

[Lukewarm]

The flavor explanation for the mod was the the chocobo apparently tells the characters when the train is leaving, and without him they would miss the train a lot (idk, never saw the anime)

So without me, you guys would forget when the deadline is and possibly miss it (hidden deadline that is semirandomly chosen)

But then I think that the change to a plurality system is to make it less punishing if you guys do miss the deadline.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: no elim

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Lukewarm

[Lukewarm]

LLD, do you scum read me, or is that a PoE vote?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, do you scum read me, or is that a PoE vote?

I don't town read you.

I town read Kate and Kyouko.

Wheme is off the table apparently.

Cabd, if scum, is too high likelyhood to have been spared.

Gamma, if scum, same deal. Like, if they aren't spared, they're town, same with Cabd.

Which means of 7 available players....

Not doing myself, of course

No LLD, Kate, Kyouko, Wheme, Cabd or Gamma

That's 6 names.

I'm unwilling to risk NL. Seems silly.

And you're in pairing groups as scum with almost everyone who could be scum for me.

And definitely no one chose to protect you. Like no way.

So that's why, I wanna do you.

[Lukewarm]

I'm unwilling to risk NL. Seems silly.

Seeing as how this is what I am leaning towards, can you explain why that is a bad choice?

I don't see us getting another kill off - from you or from kate- so if we kill now we are on evens. And will be in a position to need to no kill at melo.

No killing now seems better then no killing then, unless I am missing something

[Kate Bishop]

Why does gamma not make sense with Cabd?

The first thing he did yesterday was discredit us when we tried to push Cabd.

You said Gamma was Marci, right?

you think Cabd did this weird gimmick shit with Marci, had Gamma replace in, fail to claim, what was very easy to do just "I am one of the two" and flow from there?

I don't know if they pull that gambit and then retract it on the replace in

Thinking on this.

The problem I have is that they've both done independently scummy stuff, and Gamma's been a lot more hamhanded about stuff than Cabd has (as I'd kinda expect. Cabd's one devilish clever human being when it comes to scum roles).

Can you talk about specifically why you're scumreading Luke?

I mean.

Kyouko town.
You town.
Me town.

Leaves 4 left.

If Cabd+Gamma is off the list

and Wheme can only be with Cabd (removes Wheme Luke, Wheme Gamma)

Luke/Cabd
Luke/Gamma
Cabd/Wheme

Nothing else should remain.

If Luke Gamma, kill Luke.
If Luke Cabd, kill Luke.
If Cabd/Wheme, kill Wheme.

Since people won't kill Wheme and there's good reasons to believe maybe not to

Luke is the strongest PoE.

Like if you think Wheme is town, Kate.

That leaves only Cabd/Gamma/Luke

In which case, you always kill Luke. Always.

We're doing a lot of research on your theories in this post. we may wrap up in a few hours.

Have you looked at Dunn's posts with associatives in mind?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why does gamma not make sense with Cabd?

The first thing he did yesterday was discredit us when we tried to push Cabd.

You said Gamma was Marci, right?

you think Cabd did this weird gimmick shit with Marci, had Gamma replace in, fail to claim, what was very easy to do just "I am one of the two" and flow from there?

I don't know if they pull that gambit and then retract it on the replace in

Thinking on this.

The problem I have is that they've both done independently scummy stuff, and Gamma's been a lot more hamhanded about stuff than Cabd has (as I'd kinda expect. Cabd's one devilish clever human being when it comes to scum roles).

Can you talk about specifically why you're scumreading Luke?

I mean.

Kyouko town.
You town.
Me town.

Leaves 4 left.

If Cabd+Gamma is off the list

and Wheme can only be with Cabd (removes Wheme Luke, Wheme Gamma)

Luke/Cabd
Luke/Gamma
Cabd/Wheme

Nothing else should remain.

If Luke Gamma, kill Luke.
If Luke Cabd, kill Luke.
If Cabd/Wheme, kill Wheme.

Since people won't kill Wheme and there's good reasons to believe maybe not to

Luke is the strongest PoE.

Like if you think Wheme is town, Kate.

That leaves only Cabd/Gamma/Luke

In which case, you always kill Luke. Always.

We're doing a lot of research on your theories in this post. we may wrap up in a few hours.

Have you looked at Dunn's posts with associatives in mind?

I have not, and Niamh is currently chiding me for not having done this, but I fear I may not be able to see what we want here, given how many people townread Dunn.

You could draw associatives from Dunn to yourself, or us, just as easily as Cabd.

So I'll look at it in a bit

[Kate Bishop]

Our focus has been mostly on potential Dunn associatives with wheme and Luke.

I feel like you've haven't really dug into our case for Gamma-scum.

If anything our rereading/isoing has made us more sure he's scum. We'll probably post the additional stuff we've found in a few hours. I wish you'd take a look at him, maybe without considering him as an "and Cabd" no-go, and see what you think.

[Lukewarm]

I don't really think that dunn and I would both immediately doubt the other persons claim if we were scum partners.

Me on Dunn (not gonna lie, when I started typing this post, I thought I pressed him more then I did on the extra elim / dgb thing. I guess I thought it more then I typed it)

Spoiler:

Oh, and this may be due to me inheriting a part of dgb's role unless somebody else wants to claim it. I am not certain on that.

You were able to submit an action from DGB's ability?

Oh, and this may be due to me inheriting a part of dgb's role unless somebody else wants to claim it. I am not certain on that.

You were able to submit an action from DGB's ability?

Dunn, I would like clarification on this, and what lead you to think you could be responsible for the double vote

Mainly just Dunn no longer being in a "no-touch" zone.

There has just been a lot of confusion about his role, in ways that makes me feel like he could be making it up. Even before kyouko claimed tracker on him, he claimed that he inherited a part of DGB's role, but since it is dreaming god he did not know what it did, so he could be the second vote. Which does not jive with the timeline of when he would have received dgb's power. That was "oh, I misunderstood that it was an active power"

Spoiler:

Hi, I am a chobi the chocobo.

I have a somewhat dumb role, that is FF flavored, and triggers on my death. (the three things my original soft were supposed to include)

When I die, core game mechanics break for some reason.

The game stops being a majority vote, and turns into a plurality vote system. Also, the length of the day phases changes from 2 weeks, to an unknown deadline that is randomly chosen, but is guaranteed to be more then 1 week long. Because the deadline is unknown, there is no longer a countdown timer given by the mod.

I'm not sure about this claim

I was not sure about the role when I got my role pm, but that's it

It is a wild one to be fair

For other reasons which will become apparent

Wheme's claim now too, in fact

~~~~
And for wheme, I don't see scum!Dunn voting for wheme in the blind vote.

[Lukewarm]

4512 was supposed to have this quote at the top

Our focus has been mostly on potential Dunn associatives with wheme and Luke.

[WhemeStar]

Idk lukes role doesn’t seem to fit with Dunn’s

[Gamma Emerald]

In what sense? You apparently get full role card so like, you know what his role is like?

[WhemeStar]

I mean he didnt lie about his role at all
Does scum get something that protects them from shots and then something that wants to get shot

[Gamma Emerald]

With the amount of KP in this setup, sure
Both LLD and Manatee are roles that would have somewhat telegraphed kills, that’s why Dunn exists
Luke is more of just an anti-swing if he’s scum (tho Luke feels distinctly off my scumdar rn)

I think LLD has a point about cabd being the selection but I don’t really have a firm idea of who his partner is and probably wont until I can see his flip so I think I have to err on the side of caution here
UNVOTE: Cabd for now, will probably vote no elim in a few hours (aka after the wedding has finished)

[Kate Bishop]

@Cabd

You haven't really interacted with that list of reasons why we were scumreading you that we posted before Dunn was elimmed.

I'd really like it if you could go through that and show us why we're wrong/misinterpreting/whatever.

[Kate Bishop]

Gamma-

We are still fairly confident Gamma is scum, for his erratic play and various discrepancies we have already noted. In addition to the things we've already noted I also found an example of a faked read- in this case, Cabd. We already have pointed out the discrepancies in Gamma's behaviors to us versus Cabd, particularly when he made a turn of phrase specifically around Cabd's scumgame. You'd think someone truly paranoid of Cabd would leap to that first, when two players with tons of experience reading him started scumreading him.

But this is old ground. New ground!

Okay I think I can let Cabd out of the YTYD cage and into my actual TRs

This is the post during his catchup gamma changed to a strong townread on Cabd. I found this when I was digging into associatives. This is the post that prompted me to ask gamma about his strong townread in 3790. He dodges this until he finally answers this below-

Spoiler: Gamma Townread on Cabd

Speaking of Cabd, in 633 you reference your reaction to ManateeGal as being a reaction test, right? Were you expecting anyone in particular to react a certain way, or was it geared towards getting a reaction from anyone in particular?

yes and no!

Everything I do, I try to extract max value out of. I did try to shape my objections similar to what had hit the thread re: LLD's role but they were also genuinely my thoughts at the time, in that I struggle to see how this setup will be set up around what is effectively double day. Generally speaking, I try to ascribe to mods that they won't make a single player or role have so much agency that it denies others theirs completely, but that would be the case here if Manatee and LLD are both town.

okay this was like, THE post that made me townlock cabd. Something about the way the extracting value was discussed just rung out as town to me

It's definitely becoming a larger problem. I noticed is mostly with bell in the last game, but "You aren't allowed to scum read me lol and it's a pox on your house if you do" is completely against the idea of the game of mafia. People get to live inside their heads and know their role PMs but like, you can't expect everyone to have that luxury.

Being wrong is a thing that happens. By definition, a LOT in a game like this.

At the risk of making your hair stand on end for what is explicitly a blatant buddying attempt: Wanna just be in thread neighbors for a while? I for one am open to hearing about your take on fferysci. As the game that shall not be named showed, my reads aren't ALWAYS xenoblade tier perfect. Maybe I'm missing something major that you're seeing.

this one I think also helped

devil's bargain

In fairness, last time this happened was the Unwnd Large?

this wasn't really a conscious factor I think but I could definitely see me having registered on some level that this makes sense more from town pov than scum? Like it seems cabd interpreted what LLD was indicating as "I might be getting lured to my death again" vs. "I might be getting snowed by you for choosing to accept your olive branch"

these are all the posts I can identify within where I'm pretty sure I got that read thread-location wise

Now, take note of the very first post of this- they post he says lock towned Cabd. It is 648. However, if you pay attention to Gamma's catchup, the last post he responded to was 612 (responded to in post 3123), and the post he responds to next (sans replying to recent posts) was 618(replied to in post 3139). If you look between those two posts (612 to 618) there is not a single Cabd post in that timeframe. The post he references is on the bottom of the next page, which is weird continuing his catchup continues from 618 to 619 and 623 (in posts 3140 and 3141, respectively).

Wheme-
We still struggle to see Wheme as scum here, especially after viewing the events around the Shiro claim. If Wheme was scum with Cabd, I foresee him claiming Shiro way earlier than luke chasing him down for it. Cabd would tell him to in the PT. I don't need to say why he can't be scum with Luke other than "Because Cabd says so"

Luke-
One thing about Luke was he consistently pushing against Cabd's clear of marci on day one. There is one thing I noticed, and if a certain someone has an iota of effort to offer today I would like to put the ball in his court. However, I will direct him in the right direction- I am looking solely at RVS in past scumgames. (and if you look at the bastard one, VFP was his first buddy). Or you can not do this and I'll spell it out but I'd much rather you look >_>

[Cabd]

One work day and three after hours Comcast outages later I am sleeping. We can chat tomorrow.

[WhemeStar]

I fucking Hate this game

WHAT IS THIS RNG STUFF AHHHHH

[WhemeStar]

Okay sorry for this post but I really need to just write down my thoughts instead of in head
Cabd
Gamma
LLD
Lukewarm
SSBM
Kate
Whemey

7 players. 5 town 2 scum

We vote Gamma. Scum flip. 5 town 1 scum
We vote Gamma. Mafia gets to redirect. 4 town 2 scum. Night comes, 3 town 2 scum
We vote someone else and they flip town. 3 town 2 scum

Okay that makes me feel better I was under the impression that we lose the game if we get this shit wrong

[WhemeStar]

I’m treating this as gif is out of the fucking game and he’s the one doing this fucking shenanigans

[jjh927]