Mini 2241: The Neighborhood -- ENDGAME

[MegAzumarill]

you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them

SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side

Aren't most sks bp though?

I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the last time I played with an SK he shot the most townread member of the mafia and it was glorious

[Kazyan]

the fact kaz did it apropos of nothing is probably a sign he's just giving unfiltered thoughts, [...]

I'm probably gonna put my filter back on for the next game I'm in, or later in this one, or now

I've been trying to correct my crappy Day 1 play (iI know you think I was fine in That Time I Shot You When I Was A Vigilante but it still feels like every second thing I said got a big "??????" response) and well-respected players suggested to unfilter myself in the Newbie queue, because I was getting read as scummy for being stiff and manufactured, but edited posts are how I roll

But now I post without a filter and people learn why the filter is there, and also I rage harder because guess what else happens when you edit a post

[the worst]

you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them

SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side

Aren't most sks bp though?

I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town

full bp is kinda wild, one-shot is probably more common

this is a weird tangent. pooky is also generally correct. groupscum is significantly more dangerous in earlygame.

[MegAzumarill]

you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them

SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side

Aren't most sks bp though?

I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town

full bp is kinda wild, one-shot is probably more common

this is a weird tangent. pooky is also generally correct. groupscum is significantly more dangerous in earlygame.

I'd think it'd be the opposite, but doesnt really matter either way.

[Gamma Emerald]

okay yeah I had some worries at one point but Kaz is hard town for me

[House]

UNVOTE: House

Dunno why I kept my vote on you.

this feels self-conscious

Reachy.

[Gamma Emerald]

calling it like I see it

[House]

Just got off work. Done a skim ketchup.

If I had to jump wagons right this instant, I'd probably land on Meg simply because I don't like the others, but I wouldn't be happy about landing there either because I just don't have any other reason to be on it, of the top of my head.

I'll cogitate on this a bit over the weekend when I have more free time.

[the worst]

you leave SK alive because the mafia have to kill the SK before the SK kills them

SK is just as dangerous as a vig to the mafia side

Aren't most sks bp though?

I agree that sks can be anti mafia, but they definitely arent pro town

full bp is kinda wild, one-shot is probably more common

this is a weird tangent. pooky is also generally correct. groupscum is significantly more dangerous in earlygame.

I'd think it'd be the opposite, but doesnt really matter either way.

little abstract, but i'd posit two points (super briefly, and then end the convo because you're right, it doesn't actually matter).
- town winrate tends to be significantly higher in semi-open setups when those setups include a serial killer. skilled scum will assert themselves into a position in the gamestate where they're hard to remove via elimination. in the absence of a vigilante, they won't be removed via night kill. removing those scum is anti-groupscum, pro-town, pro-sk.
- generally speaking, groupscum control 3/13 of the dialouge on d1. in the worst case scenario you can be looking at a situation where scum control 3/7 of the conversation by ELo on day four with one kill per night. serial killers are harder to discern from town in the abstract, but they have significantly less control over the day game.

anyway, this is probably most a philosophical conversation and we can agree to land on opposite sides if that's how it is. where are you at in this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

I asked about TM2020 because I thought the way you brought yourself into the game as town is different from what I'm seeing here, but I've also decided that Mafia has a dependent factor that can change based on mood. My own twiddling is representative of this, but I just find you coming in here with such PROVOCATIVE and CHOICE words like kazoo being town as a leading wagon to be odd. You didn't think Kaz was in any immediate danger, yeah? The game is still at a phase that you seem to recognize where people are fishing and making halfbaked plays.

i think you think that i think you think that i think about things more than i think you know i think about things, you know?

So in short, yes?

re meta/alignment/mood, that's cool, i'm glad you feel that way

I did choose to be provocative. what of it?
how do you think it relates to my tm2020 play and why is that an alignment factor?

I don't really think Kaz is in immediate peril no. yes this game is on the precipice of getting interesting but scared of making the plunge.

I commend you for being the

change

this game needs, but I don't know if it was needed. Kaz is being strange. A lot of people talked about it. My own take is that they're fidgety and their opinions are overwrought.

A bit of meta takes: Kaz is not the most orderly player. I've played about 2-3 games with them now and I never find much method to why they do things. Kaz's own response to this is that people think they're 'evil' early, but like. Nothing they've done I think is necessarily evil? I don't know why they chose that description because I would describe them as 'aloof' personally. Typically what people look for in townies are those who are willing to be unguarded and give out their opinions. They've doubled down on themselves and made a minor case on Pooky and called them an SK. I think this is all ridiculous, especially so because it came back-to-back-to-back. Kaz gave themselves no set period of time where they just let their opinions lie, and instead just kept moving along. I am not a fan of this because readlists to me are done because you want people to take them in and see how people react to them. If the readlist they gave was of import, why does it seem like it is not really determining anything at this rate. It came so early and without warning and now it seems like Kaz doesn't even care and is just on to the next thing.

this seems like decent thoughts for the most part, but reads list can be done for any number of reasons. My most common are to put my own thoughts in order, force myself into more concrete stances when I think it's called for, or to display current headspace. A notable time I dislike making read lists is when people say my reads are unclear; they're commonly not as unclear as people say, folks just can't bother to look for them.

also kinda liking tw as of this page

[Loftwing]

Hey Pooky, are you still scumreading The Worst? If so, why?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: dwlee

helllll yeeeeeeeeAaaaaa

pending response from dwlee to my questions I think this is a solid vote

Kidamn and Kazyan should be the two competing wagons cause one of those two is actually probably scum if my vibe check is right

I was gonna ask what this vibe check was but you answered on the same page

It's that I feel like Kazyan is town, and I have felt like the wagon on him was also mostly town. So then we should be looking at who is on the sidelines (like kidamn who still has done nothing).

I also think regardless of Kazyan's alignment that scum are inactive right now.

kidamn had literally flaked at this point, do you still stand by this "standing on the sidelines" accusation?
and like, you framed your vote as poe initially when the actual logic had no poe involved at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Just realize Dann flattered me by going ' a player like unwnd'

Golly gee have I hit the big leagues? The upper pantheon?

until demonstrated otherwise you're just a beeboy clone for me

I probably agree, with the caveat that threatening scum are present but not active in advancing the game. Dannflor is also the deepwolf but that's not super relevant right now.

dann's play feels a bit like the newbie me and ythan we're scum in so far, especially with calling me and navi teamed

Spoiler: super secret, town only

honestly I'm not even sure I've totally convinced myself Kazyapple is town exactly?? I just trust the pressure on them less than I trust their posting and I'm kinda worried there's no cw and they're getting pressure from unwnd who isn't voting them

Spoiler: Even more secret, for unwnd only

Dwlee is exhibiting close to the same behavior Kaz is, albeit with a different goal in mind

Spoiler: TOP SECRET, for unwnd/ducky

You two can just talk in the scum PT instead of doing this scum theatre, it will look bad later on

Spoiler: for pooky's eyes only

i have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not allowed to open unwnd's spoiler.

Spoiler: for kidamn's eyes only

y'all know I open these things on principle right?

Why would you not vote for the person who you think is Mafia

Like I think Pooky would do this even as town (I still think he's SK/delighting in being the villain; nice crumb), but Dann?

do you legit think dann is evil, if so why

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd buy the story about god-scumhunter Pooky killing all the scum for us and then dying, but he's tunneled on me so that's clearly not what's happening here

lolno
why would anyone kill the person they're tunneling?

I don't buy this.

It's day 1. How do you differentiate group!scum from solo!scum?

Planting shade so indiscriminately on everyone and anyone, basically, which means he doesn't care who dies, just

someone

. I guess he could be a Survivor?

Distancing is a thing.

Not all shade is created equal.

100% this

Low on time today but dislike the dwlee wagon here.

VOTE: kidann

>_<
bad juju from this, big time

I'm sorry that I haven't been very serious in this game, I've been devoting most of my energy in another game. I'd be willing to answer any questions you might have to ask me now, and I'll try to answer them satisfactory.

you again seem to be worrying about things nobody is pressuring you for!

[MegAzumarill]

Where are you at in this game?

I like Dannfloor and Dwlee for town. Maybe a side of Unwd.

Dannfloor is very succinct, not very driving, but reading his ISO it seems pretty obvious they are critically reading the game.
Unwd is townread for similar reasons, they seem to be actively scumhunting but from the main fray rather than the sidelines. Ill throw them a TL for now.
Dwlee seems to have the same impressions as me for a lot of the game so far.

I can see Loftwing as scum with either gamma or pooky off of associatives (mounting a defensish manuever for both out of purely mechanical reasons rather than off of reads).

Rest is very meh. I'll let you know if I forgot something.


Rest is meh.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: megazumarill
I'm still reading but I think I have enough of a scumpool that I want to actually break my habits and vote pre-being fully caught up

[Gamma Emerald]

I can see Loftwing as scum with either gamma or pooky off of associatives (mounting a defensish manuever for both out of purely mechanical reasons rather than off of reads).

el em ay oh

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: megazumarill
I'm still reading but I think I have enough of a scumpool that I want to actually break my habits and vote pre-being fully caught up

:C

[Gamma Emerald]

and why aren't you voting loftwing if that's your core suspicion out of (loftwing/gamma/pooky)?

[MegAzumarill]

and why aren't you voting loftwing if that's your core suspicion out of (loftwing/gamma/pooky)?

I think the associative is there if loftwing is scum.

It doesn't mean that I think he is more likely to be scum.

[the worst]

probably agree that unwnd's position in the game is not intuitive for scum. i don't, like..scumread loftwing at all though

[MegAzumarill]

probably agree that unwnd's position in the game is not intuitive for scum. i don't, like..scumread loftwing at all though

Disagree with the first sentence, agree with the second.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Dwlee

Seems legit.

putting a pin in this

kaz is probably an end of day kinda wagon and people want to do the whole think we can sort the entire playerlist D1, get to page 100 and hate ourselves thing.
which like yeah fair, been there and done that for seven years of mafia.

I'm not gonna be the elimination. A whole bunch of people flashwagoned me, threw everything they had into nitpicking every single post, suddenly realized that no one else was buying it, and then everyone gave awkward excuses for switching to [spins bottle] Dwlee. You can't do a blatantly scum-driven wagon like that twice in one day phase but that's none of my business

what are the common votes between kaz and dwlee?

UNVOTE: House

Dunno why I kept my vote on you.

What was your read on Kaz here?

Based on how quickly the wagon formed on me and the deal with Gork and Dann, there's maybe one scum on my wagon? VOTE: House?

What do you mean re Gork and Dann and why do you conclude House is the scum?

these feel like loaded questions

murdercat when r u going to live up to your paragon title and catch me some bad guys

i need you to carry me just once bro

the one time mcat got close to solving the game day 1 you (and I) miseliminated him

[Gamma Emerald]

and why aren't you voting loftwing if that's your core suspicion out of (loftwing/gamma/pooky)?

I think the associative is there if loftwing is scum.

It doesn't mean that I think he is more likely to be scum.

yeah this is transparently trying to dodge putting actual pressure on loftwing
meg/dwlee/loftwing is the scumteam