Nomic: Wiki Edition --- Finished (More or Less)

[lendunistus]

something that I think we should figure out - do we want a more game-y Nomic or some political/life simulation thing that never ends and just makes us angry and eventually kills the game

I was thinking of an RPG or something but that would be extremely difficult to figure out

[Deimos27]

It depends on your interpretation. That's not how I have typically done it in the past, but I do see that we don't have a rule that clarifies that scenario. The way I see it is that a proposal passes when it reaches a majority of votes needed; however, it fails as soon as it can no longer pass. You are free to re-propose the proposal as there is no such rule against such. This keeps proposals that are on the edge of getting the requisite votes but unable to from staying in limbo forever.

To be clear, abstentions are excluded from the calculation for simple majority, right? Otherwise they just become de facto nays. So if we have two abstentions and 7 players it would become 3 to pass. I do agree that proposals should fail when they can't pass, and that therefore includes situations where the vote is tied (or the best possible outcome remaining for the proposition is that the vote is tied).

[Deimos27]

something that I think we should figure out - do we want a more game-y Nomic or some political/life simulation thing that never ends and just makes us angry and eventually kills the game

I was thinking of an RPG or something but that would be extremely difficult to figure out

How about a political rpg lol

[lendunistus]

something that I think we should figure out - do we want a more game-y Nomic or some political/life simulation thing that never ends and just makes us angry and eventually kills the game

I was thinking of an RPG or something but that would be extremely difficult to figure out

How about a political rpg lol

Awful

I kind of like it

[Deimos27]

It depends on your interpretation. That's not how I have typically done it in the past, but I do see that we don't have a rule that clarifies that scenario. The way I see it is that a proposal passes when it reaches a majority of votes needed; however, it fails as soon as it can no longer pass. You are free to re-propose the proposal as there is no such rule against such. This keeps proposals that are on the edge of getting the requisite votes but unable to from staying in limbo forever.

To be clear, abstentions are excluded from the calculation for simple majority, right? Otherwise they just become de facto nays. So if we have two abstentions and 7 players it would become 3 to pass. I do agree that proposals should fail when they can't pass, and that therefore includes situations where the vote is tied (or the best possible outcome remaining for the proposition is that the vote is tied).

Actually it does appear as though this isn't currently the case and that makes no sense to me.

Proposal 314: Amend 206: Proposals require an absolute majority of active votes to pass, where active votes are defined as those held by active non-abstaining players. Proposals fail as soon as they can no longer pass.

For reference, current 206 reads only "New rules require an absolute majority of active votes to pass". This clears up the ambiguities mentioned above and changes out the words "new rules" for the word "proposals" to clarify that it applies also to e.g. proposals of amendments and repeals

[Deimos27]

something that I think we should figure out - do we want a more game-y Nomic or some political/life simulation thing that never ends and just makes us angry and eventually kills the game

I was thinking of an RPG or something but that would be extremely difficult to figure out

How about a political rpg lol

Awful

I kind of like it

Time to run a D&D campaign set in current-day USA.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Proposal 315: Amend Rule 208 to say the following:
There may be no more than X pending proposals at any given time, where X is the largest of either 5, or 5 + 1/2 * (# of active players - 5), rounded down if necessecary. The only exception is when an active player becoming inactive would cause X to be less than the current number of proposals.
A pending proposal is a proposal that has not yet been marked as having passed or failed.

[Jake The Wolfie]

This allows the game to kinda scale should we suddenly get a rush of players.

At any rate, we'd get a new pending proposal slot immediately.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 314

I'd like to think more about 315 when I don't have to get ready for work, but for now VOTE: Yea 315.

[StrangerCoug]

I think Deimos27's vote passes 312, by the way.

[Ircher]

To be clear, abstentions are excluded from the calculation for simple majority, right? Otherwise they just become de facto nays. So if we have two abstentions and 7 players it would become 3 to pass. I do agree that proposals should fail when they can't pass, and that therefore includes situations where the vote is tied (or the best possible outcome remaining for the proposition is that the vote is tied).

Yes, this is correct. (This one is in fact properly covered by the current ruleset in unambiguous terms---active votes are defined in 113.)

VOTE: Yea 314
---
My vision for the game is that it will just end when we tire of it, but it would also be unlikely anyone actually wins. We can go off in any direction we would like.

[Ircher]

I thought about it and I'm gonna VOTE: Nay 315. I think a better idea is that you have to spend some kind of currency if you want to go over a soft cap of 5 active proposals. For instance, it could be that you have to spend 5 points to make an additional proposal if 5 proposals are already active.

[Jake The Wolfie]

But that doesn't scale well, does it? If we got over 10 players here, then most players won't

have

points/currency to spend, or we'll have a flood of proposals.

[StrangerCoug]

The currency proposal that I have drafted gives everyone a starting amount. I may make it into a formal proposal after work if there's an open proposal slot then.

[Ircher]

But that doesn't scale well, does it? If we got over 10 players here, then most players won't

have

points/currency to spend, or we'll have a flood of proposals.

I don't think it's a bad thing if spending currency, points, etc. to get more proposals is rare. I see it more as 1) providing a use for a currency/points (besides winning) and 2) allowing people to have the flexibility to propose things that they think are particularly important and cannot wait. A limit of five proposals is a good number and worked pretty well last time we played this. If we really do get a flood of ins and need a higher proposal limit, I'd rather make the change across the board for everyone's sake. (The current proposal cap becomes just one more thing that everyone has to keep track of, and it can become tricky when you take into account people going to inactive status.)

[StrangerCoug]

I count four active proposals, so:

Proposal 316: There is hereby created a currency called Nomic dollars, whose symbol shall be N$. Upon passage of this proposal, every current player, regardless of activity, shall earn N$1,000. Every new player who joins after the passage of this proposal shall thereby earn N$1,000. Every day at 00:00 UTC, every active player shall earn N$100. How many Nomic dollars each player has shall be noted in the Player Statuses section of the wiki.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Yea 316

This will very likely be a thing I'll forget to update though. If it passes, others should probably make sure I remember to do this.

[Jake The Wolfie]

VOTE: Nay 316

This seems very easy to accrue thousands of N$ for later use to essentially buy out whatever the hell you want

[Ircher]

Everything can just be priced accordingly. I don't think that will be that hard to balance.

[Jake The Wolfie]

If someone who has a lot of N$ exists, then everything that is actually good will cost way too much, because otherwise they could buy in bulk and sweep the game.

[StrangerCoug]

I mean, I'm open to playing around with the numbers a bit. I didn't want the math involved to be too difficult for us who will have to keep track of it.

[lendunistus]

how about letting people make their own currencies and creating a Reserve Bank of Nomic to oversee them

we could also just make several currencies with their own exchange rate and once again, have the Reserve Bank oversee them

we could also give every player control over their own currency and let everyone fight over economic control over Nomic for an eventual win

[Ircher]

Ooh that sounds fun! So maybe something like this (these would probably each be their own proposal):

I.

The Establishment of the Nomic Reserve Bank:

An entity known as the Nomic Reserve Bank is hereby established upon the passage of this proposal.

II.

The Election of the Nomic Reserve Bank Board of Directors:

The Nomic Reserve Bank is managed by three elected officials known as the Reserve Bank of Nomic Board of Directors (or board of directors for short when the relevant context is the Reserve Bank of Nomic.) Every two weeks, a 2-day long election is held to determine who is on the board. Elections officially begin at 12:01 AM UTC on the day of the election and end the day after at 11:59 PM UTC. Votes are cast by secret ballot (i.e.: pm) to the current head director of the board and must list the player's three preferences for the board of directors in the order of preference. Players may not vote for themselves in any way, and any ballots received before the election starts or after the election ends will be considered invalid. The winner of the election is decided by employing a modified form of the Borda Count where a 1st preference counts as 5 votes, a 2nd preference counts as 3 votes, and a 3rd preference counts as 1 vote. All unlisted players receive 0 votes. Furthermore, the player amongst the three elected officials who is the Condorcet winner (i.e.: wins the most head-to-head matches against the other two elected officials) shall become the new head director of the board of directors. If there is a tie, the vote totals from the Borda Count should be used. If there is still a tie, the current head director of the board of directors may choose the new head director of the board of directors with the restriction that they cannot choose themselves. The election results shall be posted by the current head director of the board of directors within 24 hours of the election ending. At this point, power transfers from the prior board of directors to the newly elected board of directors. For the first election, the moderator shall preside as the current head director of the board of directors, and the first election shall begin at 12:01 AM UTC on the day following the passage of this proposal. All election data should be archived in some format following the example of the archiving of the first election.

III:

The Empowerment of Players to Create Currencies:

At any time, a player who has not yet made a currency may create a new currency by posting in bold, "I hereby establish the currency [Currency Name]. Its symbol is [Currency Symbol]." The player who creates the currency may make as little or as much of it as they like and may hand it out to whomever they choose in whatever nonnegative quantity they choose except when dictated otherwise by the current Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank. All new currencies hold no value when first created. A player may not establish more than one currency at once; the old currency must exit circulation first and then be officially dissolved as described in later rules.

IV:

Decision Making in the Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank:

All decisions made by the board of directors shall be done in a way agreed upon by the current board of directors. This decision in turn shall be decided by simple majority vote with the head director breaking any ties if need be. All decisions made by the board of directors should be archived, and for decisions requiring a vote, the archive shall indicate the position taken by each director on the decision.

V:

The Powers Granted to the Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank:

The following powers are hereby granted to the board of directors: 1) the power to determine exchange rates between various currencies 2) the power to dissolve currencies 3) the power to sanction players by imposing various restrictions on their currencies. The latter two powers shall be further described in future rules; however, if rules pertaining to those powers are not passed, then those powers are not granted.

VI:

The Power to Dissolve Currencies:

As established in V, the Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank wield the power to dissolve the currencies. They may do so simply by declaring in bold, "Currency [Currency Name] is hereby declared void," with following restrictions: 1) the currency must be out of circulation; this means that only the original creator of the currency possesses any nonzero amount of the currency and 2) the original creator of the currency must approve of the dissolution of the currency.

VII:

The Power to Sanction Players:

The Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank may place economic sanctions on players for any reason provided the decision is documented as established in IV. These sanctions are limited to the following: (note that the target refers to the player being sanctioned) 1) preventing the target from creating more of their currency or limiting how much of the currency can be made, 2) preventing the target's currency from being traded or lent, 3) preventing the target from making currency exchanges of any kind, or 4) preventing the target's currency from being exchanged in any form. All sanctions are temporary and may last no longer than 168 hours (1 week). The board of directors shall choose both the length and the nature of the sanction as described above, and they are empowered to apply multiple sanctions to a single player as well to reapply a sanction immediately after a previous one expired.

VIII:

Limitations on the Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank:

The Board of Directors of the Nomic Reserve Bank do not transcend the rules of the game. They are subject to the same rules as everyone else (except as described above), and furthermore, any and all of their decisions may be subjected to an executive review. Note that in the latter case, only the head director of the board of directors may be the subject of the executive review; that is, the head director shall be considered the "executor" for the purposes of an executive review and may not participate in the ensuing vote.

[Ircher]

Also, here is the list of currently active proposals:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

===Active Proposals===
Use the following format (and please make sure to have the initial space on each line!):

 Proposal ### (Post #) by Username: Text body.
 Yea - User1 (#), User2 (#), ...
 Nay - User3 (#), User4 (#), ...
 Not Voting - User5

----

 Proposal 311 (Post 66) by Jake The Wolfie: Shiny Rocks are a type of Currency. Each player gains 10 Shiny Rocks for each point that they gain, including retroactively.
 Yea - Jake The Wolfie (66)
 Nay - StrangerCoug (73), lendunistus (81)
 Not Voting - Ircher, tris, Charles510, Deimos27

 Proposal 313 (Post 91) by StrangerCoug: A player may vote "[Yea/Nay] with reservations" on any proposal made after this rule, which shall henceforth be known as a vote with reservations. A player who does so should, but is not required to, explain the reservations the player holds that prevent an unqualified vote. A vote with reservations is indistinct from a normal vote for the purposes of calculating the number of votes needed to pass a proposal.
 Yea - StrangerCoug (91), Ircher (93), lendunistus (98)
 Nay - Jake the Wolfie (92), Deimos27 (99)
 Not Voting - tris, Charles510

 Proposal 314 (Post 104) by Deimos27: Amend 206: Proposals require an absolute majority of active votes to pass, where active votes are defined as those held by active non-abstaining players. Proposals fail as soon as they can no longer pass.
 Yea - Deimos27 (104), StrangerCoug (108), Ircher (110)
 Nay -
 Not Voting - tris, lendunistus, Jake The Wolfie, Charles510

 Proposal 315 (Post 106) by Jake The Wolfie: Amend Rule 208 to say the following: There may be no more than X pending proposals at any given time, where X is the largest of either 5, or 5 + 1/2 * (# of active players - 5), rounded down if necessecary. The only exception is when an active player becoming inactive would cause X to be less than the current number of proposals. A pending proposal is a proposal that has not yet been marked as having passed or failed.
 Yea - Jake The Wolfie (106), StrangerCoug (108)
 Nay - Ircher (111)
 Not Voting - tris, lendunistus, Charles510, Deimos27

 Proposal 316 (Post 115) by StrangerCoug: There is hereby created a currency called Nomic dollars, whose symbol shall be N$. Upon passage of this proposal, every current player, regardless of activity, shall earn N$1,000. Every new player who joins after the passage of this proposal shall thereby earn N$1,000. Every day at 00:00 UTC, every active player shall earn N$100. How many Nomic dollars each player has shall be noted in the Player Statuses section of the wiki.
 Yea - StrangerCoug (115), Ircher (116)
 Nay -
 Not Voting - tris, lendunistus, Jake the Wolfie, Charles510, Deimos27

I am thinking that if we go the reserve bank route, we should establish Nomic Dollars as the official currency for establishing exchange rates.

[lendunistus]

I guess I’ll clean up a proposal

VOTE: Yea 314