Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Andante]

day 3? cause to them it's scummy their partner went "I TR gamma" then hammered gamma

[Andante]

Like, if you think about it, as soon as we went "scum enchant wouldn't hammer like that" enchant started coasting, and has been coasting since

[Andante]

Toog backed off on the push too likely for the same reason, like, town is destroying itself, F&G/VP/Dwlee are all locked against each other right now, maf has no incentive to jump in, Toog got forced to with the prod, and Enchant laughing at my read shows enchant is following along and just not talking (scum indicative)

[Enchant]

What coasting means

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: enchant

[Toogeloo]

Andante, you are laughably bad... Unless you're scum... But, that would probably still be laughably bad.

Guess I'm overestimating how close to confirmed town I actually was.

---

In any case, if you think I am scum with Enchant, you still flip Enchant here first. They have more associatives than I do. If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

However, if you flip me first, and I flip town, you look absolutely foolish in MeLo.

[Andante]

why would you be confirmed town?

[VP Baltar]

Toog, what's your solve?

[Bingle]

Bingle - can I get an updated reads list from you now that you are somewhat caught up?

In a little bit, sure.

If you want a team analysis, I'm gonna need a lot of yarn though.

[Enchant]

Actually if Toog is town somehow, we not winning this. If mafia we not winning this, because you marionettes and believe anything someone say, so you can as well can start post memes and forget about this game.

Mafia pushed gamma who protected me, and i performed lol moment personally.

I AM REGRETING. Like really do, there's no explaination expect for me being kinda moronic and having short temper.

[Enchant]

Lol really I don't care, i only care i killed gamma i sucj

[Enchant]

I claim Mafia Goon

[VP Baltar]

Bingle - can I get an updated reads list from you now that you are somewhat caught up?

In a little bit, sure.

If you want a team analysis, I'm gonna need a lot of yarn though.

I'll take a list of everyone and your read/short why. Something similar to my own post is totally fine.

[Bingle]

Bingle - can I get an updated reads list from you now that you are somewhat caught up?

In a little bit, sure.

If you want a team analysis, I'm gonna need a lot of yarn though.

I'll take a list of everyone and your read/short why. Something similar to my own post is totally fine.

Yeah, gotcha. I’m gonna wait until I’m not mobile because I don’t like formatting reads lists mobile, but I should be able to get it out in the next hour at most.

[Fun and Games]

If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

i mean if they flip town do u accept being the mylo flip tom?

~ skitter

[Andante]

I claim Mafia Goon

If you're town, how is this even trying?

[Enchant]

Why if you not even trying, mafia is teamgame.

Toog reasoning is basically "well Enchant didn't talk with Darby or did so like partner vote".
It's in game where mafia bus each other d1 and make over everything specifically these reads DOESN'T happen.

I am not talking i could just pretend being afk (like you can notice) and let him claim something cool to avoid chop.

[Enchant]

No, really, i unserstand probably scumreading me, or Toog, BUT BOTH IS SOMETHING OUTRAGEOUS.

It's so twisted, it's inpossible.

[Andante]

skitter, I think I'm lost,

I have a feeling I'm not right on enchant/toog, but both of them are literally playing against town right now
VP isn't really solving, just trying to fight everyone and "wants everyone's reads"
Dwlee... idk they're funny

I just hate how all game Toog has been all "I'm clear" and done nothing, Enchant just claimed goon???
VP/Toog/Enchant are actively playing against town. At least 1 in that would be town, idk I'm just so confused cause all signs point to a enchant/toog team, but why would both scum act like this??

[Andante]

No, really, i unserstand probably scumreading me, or Toog, BUT BOTH IS SOMETHING OUTRAGEOUS.

It's so twisted, it's inpossible.

I can't tell if I'm right and this is trying to mock me or what. I've had other team reads, you had no reaction to that, what makes me SRing Enchant and Toog so different?

[Enchant]

Because i know who i am.
Toog is badly pushing me.

Calling one of us mafia maybe reasonable, but calling team forces me in laughing hysteria

[Bingle]

If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

i mean if they flip town do u accept being the mylo flip tom?

~ skitter

I thought you were talking to ducky for a minute there and got real confused.

My gamestate read, at the moment, is that we’re in a 1 in 1 out scum in {VP/DW/Andante/FG} scenario. There was just too much resistance for too long to looking outside of it for me to think that there are two scum in there actively, unless the team is specifically Andante/Dwlee and their goal was to flip FG and VP sequentially. There are a couple little troubling things that won’t let me take that entirely off of the table, but given Andantes play overall and how everything seems to be shaking, I don’t put much credence into it.

[Andante]

If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

i mean if they flip town do u accept being the mylo flip tom?

~ skitter

I thought you were talking to ducky for a minute there and got real confused.

My gamestate read, at the moment, is that we’re in a 1 in 1 out scum in {VP/DW/Andante/FG} scenario. There was just too much resistance for too long to looking outside of it for me to think that there are two scum in there actively, unless the team is specifically Andante/Dwlee and their goal was to flip FG and VP sequentially. There are a couple little troubling things that won’t let me take that entirely off of the table, but given Andantes play overall and how everything seems to be shaking, I don’t put much credence into it.

If you're gonna keep calling me maf, I'm just gonna vote you lol

[Bingle]

Fun and Games - Town. I've been telegraphing this read for a while now, but I don't think anyone left in the lobby is familiar enough with how I play to get it. Skitter is pretty clearly trying to figure things out and solve, and all of her main pushes have been reactionary to what she perceives as bad pushes against her, particularly from VP/Dwlee, which tells me that despite having the spare towncred to burn and the ability to push through basically any elim she wanted (there's no way skitter didn't pick up my willingness to throw my weight behind whatever she felt strongly on) with minimal blowback she doesn't have a clear direction she wants the thread to move in. Skitter scum knows her path to victory, and she's not dedicating herself to it. The strongest argument I've seen for this slot as scum is literally: "They're playing antagonistically" to which I have an absolute 4 word meta defense, just to piss of Dwlee.

This is a parachute.

Andante - Playing super erratically, but not in a way that looks like she's trying to force through any particular mis elim or avoid any particular partner with the exceptions of skitter/Dwlee. I don't think Skitter/Andante plays the tunnel on VP for so long when there's absent targets that are much easier, and the Dwlee tinfoil deserves to be talked about separately. Even still, I think this is probably just a townslot and I have no interest in pushing it through today.

Sleepless Assassin - Probably town? This townread presumes that the analysis made by SA is good faith and contextually accurate, which is a large portion of my frustration with the lack of links (yes, I see that you've started using them again. Thanks!) Until/unless I find that he's actively misleading the thread, though, the depth of analysis suggests a level of engagement and desire to understand motivations that just doesn't seem viable for scum to fake long term. He's had some significant down time between posting, but all of it seems organic and none of the timing for popins has struck me as odd/opportunistic. It really just does look like he only has a limited amount of time to devote to the game and when he's here the level of content is exemplary.

Toogeloo - Null. It's been a while since I've played with Toog, and I don't think I've ever played with scumToog (insert running gag about it being impossible for toog to roll scum) but I don't have any major pings here. Toog/Dunn didn't have anything D1 I saw as particularly clearing, but Toog/Dunn were also just not here D1. Similarly, I'm not convinced that Toog/Dunn were towncleared by Ico/Darby pushing there, because one lurkscum pushing another lurkscum to try to stay afloat seems entirely reasonable to me. Neither is a particularly large loss to the team. Neither is particularly likely to convince a ton of people to sheep them. And if either of them generates towncred by doing so, well bully for them.

Dwlee99 - Every once in a while, Dwlee has something that just feels town. Their frustration over Pooky, the freakout about how erratic Andante was, the frankly ridiculous "Pooky is pissing me off" tell. All of these have had grains of Dwlee town in them. But mostly, he's just not here as much as I expect he would be as town. I don't know that this is a fair read, but I think town Dwlee would be more invested in solving the game.

Enchant - Honestly though, that hammer. The sum total of Enchant's play from my perspective is beetlejuicing, ATE, and pushing any ship in a storm any time their name comes up.

VP Baltar - It breaks my heart to do this, but I think VP is just hard scum here, and it's for the reasons skitter brought up, not the ones Pooky did. The interaction with A50 jumping off of the wagon just screams scum motivation in hindsight, and the fact that he wasn't actively driving the Gamma wagon while doing it just makes it even worse. His sentiments not long before don't seem to indicate a strong preference for a gamma elim, but A50 switching to Darby was just unacceptable.

Let's yeet Gamma now so we can keep D1 under 100 pages.

Combined with this, VP has pretty consistently been hiding from this salient point with the not-inaccurate but largely irrelevant fight with Pooky. Yes, pooky has been abrasive and stirring the shit up, but also this is pooky we're talking about. Anyone who has been in a room adjacent to a room pooky is in knows he loves to stir shit.

[Bingle]

If you're gonna keep calling me maf, I'm just gonna vote you lol

So. Andante Dwlee.

Andante has reevaluated ad nauseam all day and has had solves involving every slot, to the best of my knowledge. However, the only times she's pushed Dwlee seem to match up to when I start considering them as possibly aligned, and even then she drops the read pretty quickly. From a gamestate standpoint, fighting a proxy war with your scumbuddy through two townies is a pretty healthy position to be in as scum this close to MYLO, (for proof of concept, check out the Mini theme from Team mafia this year where shea/FL did basically exactly that FL hiding behind Pine(my team) and Ramcius and Shea hiding behind TSQ.)

But, if we're going here, we're limming Dwlee, not Andante.

Andante could be scum with Dwlee. Dwlee could be scum period.

The latter is always the right choice, just like Shea was always the right choice over Norwee.