Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]

[Umlaut]

Pagetop!

[Umlaut]

the thing that really sucks is, i actually agree with andante on looker's replacement behaviour as maf (another 12 hours with no comment from him, yeah lol, it's not exactly looking better is it?). im really not happy about voting with her but.

I don't recall your having a problem voting with Andante. In fact weren't you already voting with her on Joq? Where is this coming from?

[mc esther]

im just lowkey mad at her take on me

[Dwlee99]

My mind has been entirely not on this game. I'm gonna be up late probably and will take some time then on my computer to do something. On mobile right now and won't be able to give proper consideration to walls

[Dwlee99]

My mind has been entirely not on this game. I'm gonna be up late probably and will take some time then on my computer to do something. On mobile right now and won't be able to give proper consideration to walls

My partner stayed later than I expected. Next time I'm at a laptop and it isn't 3:30am

[catboi]

Pagetop!

Vote Count 1.05

Dwlee99 (2):

Sleepless Assassin, Three

Andante (2):

Roadkill, joqiza

Looker (2):

Andante, mc esther

mc esther (1):

Dwlee99

Three (1):

Umlaut

Not Voting (1):

Looker

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

The post cap will reset in

(expired on 2022-01-22 22:00:00)

Deadline for Day 1 is January 25 at 9:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-01-25 22:00:00)

Reserve Posts Used:

joqiza (1)

Notes:

I am no longer tracking posts counts in the VCs as that has turned out to be largely unnecessary. I will note if and when a player has used any of their reserve posts.

Sleepless Assassin is V/LA until Saturday evening

[Andante]

3 days. can yall vote Looker now please?

[Andante]

the thing that really sucks is, i actually agree with andante on looker's replacement behaviour as maf (another 12 hours with no comment from him, yeah lol, it's not exactly looking better is it?). im really not happy about voting with her but.

I don't recall your having a problem voting with Andante. In fact weren't you already voting with her on Joq? Where is this coming from?

it's cause I'm calling her partners with Looker tbh. how about we just vote Looker first? not really that hard, plus maybe there's a cop/doc

[Looker]

Looker and mc are both literally maf.
Joqiza, idk what you're going on about, but I'm not reading any of it. You are just deadset on tunneling me for whatever reason, and it's actually just annoying. You are taking every little thing I say, and making a huge deal of it.
135 was a joke,

I tunneled Looker a game they replaced into scum, and tunneled upon the second they replaced in

. They were scared of me. thus it was a joke, but Looker is literally maf here. Town looker does stuff. maf looker goes "uhh I'll do stuff later" and freezes when caught. 2nd post was a genuine sr yes

> I feel like I'm trying to collect scraps of posts to build a sense of each slot
you sure that's how you feel? it sure seems like you're just deadset im maf, and refuse to actually look at anyone else. the team is mc and looker, why not go look there?

• First of all, I don't think Andante's meta arguments hold up
  
• I replaced into
  Open 836 and won. The reason I didn't say much was because it was already at the end of the game - this is the beginning of the game. Also, I get busy regardless of whatever slot I'm in.
  • Andante is actually the one who doesn't post much as scum. This is what she did in Micro 1039. Lurking as scum is not my meta, it's hers - I just get antsy and replace into games when I'm bored only to find better stuff to do momentarily (mafia starts to become like homework at that point).
  • I also literally just did the same thing (as town) in Mini 2256 - scum (Andante was scum this game) used my being busy against me and killed me within ~24 hours of me replacing in.
• I literally have no reason to fear Andante - I've beat her every time I've played her, and, if she's scum, I'm going to do it again. If anything, I see this as a potential scum attempt to get me out before I can even do anything. I
  will
  start doing more, though - I owe it to catboi and whoever else is on this player list.

Pairing me with anybody using 3 posts is odd to me.

two other people didnt get the joke ("joke"?); claiming it was so obvious that i could only take it seriously as maf is, no, fuck off lol (and you obviously dont even believe that, given that umlaut asked similar questions over it). i also dont get the "responding to a bad push" thing, when three literally isnt pushing looker, and i explicitly asked why he isn't pushing looker.

the thing that really sucks is, i actually agree with andante on looker's replacement behaviour as maf (another 12 hours with no comment from him, yeah lol, it's not exactly looking better is it?). im really not happy about voting with her but.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: looker

three isnt off the hook though, i want clarification on the joke thing and answers if it wasnt. also looking forward to his next vote.

the thing that really sucks is, i actually agree with andante on looker's replacement behaviour as maf (another 12 hours with no comment from him, yeah lol, it's not exactly looking better is it?). im really not happy about voting with her but.

I don't recall your having a problem voting with Andante. In fact weren't you already voting with her on Joq? Where is this coming from?

im just lowkey mad at her take on me

This sequence makes me think it's mc esther and Andante, especially if there are only two scum. They realized I wasn't posting and generated an ad hoc justification for a wagon vs a replacement. mc esther and I were just scum together in Open 837 where the strategy was to draw the elimination, so saying my behavior here is scummy based on meta is suspicious to me - why would the behavior I exhibited in a scum game with her where I was trying to be killed be the same in a game where my hypothetical objective would be to survive? It doesn't make sense that she would logically think this as town - it comes off as opportunistic.

[Looker]

Sorry. Still haven't given much thought to this, but I

am

present lol

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm pretty suspicious of this read on Dwlee because I don't think Dwlee has been particularly towny. I think he has been more null and I'm not sure I believe how Andante is taking his posts here and reaching the conclusion that he's one of the towniest, unless she's just particularly partial to his defense of her. I think this could be a pocket attempt.

I really thought you were about to say Andante/Dwelee could be a possible team. What made you think pocketing if you don't think Dwelee is likely enough to be town to have earned a spot in the middle of a reads list? What reason would Andante as scum have to pocket a town Dwelee?

Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at all

Do you have experience with Andante as scum? If so, is there something you've seen in her scum play to make you think she doesn't try as scum?

One thing that was felt weird to me at the time was the fact that after our discussion about town not really lolhammering, he went ahead and scumread Roadkill for the E-1 thing without really seeming to directly reference the conversation we just had.

Your conversation didn't really do anything for me from a theory perspective. I've played enough mafia. The risk of a random hammer is usually overstated, but still very real. The important thing is town is usually more legitimately concerned about it happening where scum just wants to come off that way. If someone had sounded really fake around the wagon, it would have raised red flags. Maybe its worth going back to look, but I didn't have that impression. For what it's worth, Roadkill hasn't looked scummy since that vote so I'm not currently scumreading the slot.

From looker, stuff like "Sorry, still reading but I couldn't resist" there's only 100 posts to read. Looker's initial reaction to repping in was "ah crap. scum. ok I'll do something later" like, that's exactly how I interpretted "O hi, hello. I guess I'm here now lol.

Give me some hours; I'll be back later on."

So I'm definitely sold on Looker maf.

Everyone else seems to think Looker prefers playing as scum so why would Looker have this reaction to a scum PM?

[Looker]

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Also

Dear Three,

It's not personal. You're really smart but you're also really town, so I have to disagree with/undermine/gaslight/ignore you to get you to cease existing in this inconsequential game. I'm sure we'd be real good friends IRL...at least until you got to know me

I've killed Three twice as scum - in Open 383 (which is what the above is referring to), and Mini 2246 - for context. I feel this is why he said what he said.

That was Jacket that antagonized you, though, not me, so let's just be friends

[Roadkill]

hi, sorry, my irl has been... pretty bad, lately, so my attention waned.

VOTE: mc esther

i questioned mc in 132 but didn't receive a reply, and mulling over it i feel like... mc esther was content to follow behind a very loud, obnoxious (sorry.) voice in andante until andante decided to turn her wrath onto mc. and that's why no stance about joqiza came until after the vote, despite it making the vote not make sense in retrospect. i think that if mc flips scum, andante is town. it's too ballsy to hold hands with your scum partner and follow a push they make happily like that.

[joqiza]

This sequence makes me think it's mc esther and Andante, especially if there are only two scum.

@Looker did you not look at the setup before you repped in? And have you read the whole game?

I think that at least one of mc esther/Andante are town for the reason Roadkill posited in 162. Assuming you're not fully caught up yet, I'd be interested in hearing your take on Andante when you have the chance to do so. I've been struggling with my read there a bit and if you've seen her as both town and scum, your full download on the situation would be... enlightening, I think.

~

I really thought you were about to say Andante/Dwelee could be a possible team. What made you think pocketing if you don't think Dwelee is likely enough to be town to have earned a spot in the middle of a reads list? What reason would Andante as scum have to pocket a town Dwelee?

@SA

My intuition is that Dwlee doesn't make 74 in a world where he and Andante are partnered. At that point in the game, Dwlee has the spotlight on him, and I'm crowing about Andante a decent amount. I just think it feels too

bold

for Dwlee to defend his one-post partner so randomly and so blatantly, in that situation. The second part of your question I'm not sure how to answer, I would say that town!Dwlee seems like a valuable game piece to scum!Andante since in this world he's basically just a potato who sits there and townreads her.

~

My mind has been entirely not on this game. I'm gonna be up late probably and will take some time then on my computer to do something. On mobile right now and won't be able to give proper consideration to walls

We still have a couple days left. So, take your time, but. You know, don't take too much time. To give you a view of where my head's at right now, I'm trying to figure out if you're one of those players who struggles to post as wolf. Baring your thoughts for us a little bit would help me eliminate that possibility.

[Sleepless Assassin]

My intuition is that Dwlee doesn't make 74 in a world where he and Andante are partnered. At that point in the game, Dwlee has the spotlight on him, and I'm crowing about Andante a decent amount. I just think it feels too bold for Dwlee to defend his one-post partner so randomly and so blatantly, in that situation

I don't agree. Andante was getting wagoned and scum get self conscious about ignoring wagons on their buddy. He had to take a stance but he's not gonna bus in the first few pages of the game. And a strong town read raises red flags. So his options are wave it off as nothing because it's so early or give a weak town read. "Sorta townie" sounds like a weak town read. I don't at all see this move as bold if they are scum together. I will say I'm not scumreading Andante independently though. I'm not really sure how to read her. She plays this game so differently than I do. I've seen her town game but not her scum game and I just have no clue what she'd do differently. The ISO thing you were pushing stood out to me too because it looks like busywork, but I'm not sure Andante would have any need to produce busywork as scum. I feel like she would be able to give plenty of content without it. And lacking context feels like a disadvantage for town so first instinct is she might be scum because she's not worried about that, but it was like five pages and she could easily catch up reading through as either alignment.

The second part of your question I'm not sure how to answer, I would say that town!Dwlee seems like a valuable game piece to scum!Andante since in this world he's basically just a potato who sits there and townreads her.

Ok, that's fair. I can still see it either way but I get your logic there. I usually think of pocketing as being something scum would do to a powerful voice and Dwelee so far doesn't fit that role, but I can see the value in having any player never vote you in such a small game, especially if she can keep him alive long term.

[mc esther]

yes looker, we were maf in cop killer. but you didnt have to lurk there, and i warned in pt that there were potential downsides to lurking so hard (and, im not criticizing you in raising this; i was incorrect to worry that lurking would make you too obviously icemaf, you read the gamestate better than i did and it paid off at a tactical level, i was somewhat impressed).

i think that's what's happening here too. i dont think you always lurk replacing in as maf (i havent seen you replace in often enough to know this). i do think, coming into a relatively townread slot, a little close to deadline, in a very slow game, you lurk here as maf and not as town.

i also dont believe looker when he says he has nothing to fear from andante. in coalition (the game he references as evidence that lurking is andante's scum meta), he said that he said of andante that he was "terrified from your accuracy".

mc esther was content to follow behind a very loud, obnoxious (sorry.) voice in andante until andante decided to turn her wrath onto mc

im still following behind her lmao, so, no? but sure, i never answered the question about why i voted wh4t, it somehow slipped my mind (and also just, didnt seem worth answering? like, you can read the post where i do it, i state my desire to sheep umlaut and quote his limpool, i thought it was pretty self-explanatory!)

[mc esther]

i think that first paragraph of mine is super fucking garbled, but the point is that "yes i think you have a tendency towards tactical lurking as scum even when it's not the literal only option available, where ive not seen you lurk as town (but, to be fair, have also not seen you replace in as town)"

[mc esther]

joqiza, and im not accusing you of anything because ik ive fucked this up in other gamethreads, but: "them" for dwlee, not "him".

this is perhaps a strategically unwise use for my postcount lmao but it's not like ive been posting a ton anyway. im really just waiting for umlaut to get in so we can maybe get some consensus and avoid a compromise deadline elim, and for three to get in so i can actually sort him beyond "idk lol vaguely weird". im not expecting andante to come back i have a hunch her inactivity's going to continue all the way to replacement (and i dont think that's ever alignment-indicative).

[Umlaut]

I'm around, just haven't had anything stick out to me since my last post (and it's also been hard to get to a real keyboard today and I hate posting on mobile). I'm not exactly townreading Looker so I could settle for yeeting there, but I think my reasons for voting Three are good and I'm kind of disappointed no one has followed me. Would like to know people's reads on that slot.

[Three]

I haven't had much to say because the majority of the conversation has revolved around Andante vs Joqiza, and I just don't have much to say about it. I was watching mainly to look for alignment indicative stuff, but honestly I think it's just devolved into a long-winded slap fight. Just walls upon walls of essays thrown at each other to the point my eyes glaze over trying to read it. I think it would be better for the game state and everyone's WIM if both of them let it go for now and interact with other people more for a bit.

So talk about something other than "the majority of the conversation"? If you don't like what people are talking about, talk about something else. This is not a good excuse.

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Assuming this is true, it would mean Looker was able to determine that Wh4t is scum based on their two (2) posts. So unless you think Looker is a god-tier reader who can correctly determine alignment in ways other players cannot hope to fathom, you should be able to point out what is scummy about those posts themselves. Otherwise this basis for a policy lim is complete nonsense.

I'd really like Andante to try and explain for herself what makes her say Looker's slot is scum.

No idea why you're getting bent out of shape over stopping a 1v1 that several people admitted they were not even reading. So little was going on outside of it that half the player list was basically not playing. And I did get everyone to start talking about other things, so that complaint was really shortsighted.

Looker doesn't need to be a god tier reader...? I said "tries", not "always". And I said Looker is a decent fallback choice to lim if we can't decide on anyone else, not that he's a 100% lockscum slot that needs to be booted ASAP. You didn't really need to take what I said to such a wild extreme, it's just unnecessary shade.

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus.

i dont get the policy elimination angle. assuming he scumread the slot before replacing in: why would we at deadline go "okay better sheep pre-replacement looker's hypothetical scumread" over sheeping any other player's actual stated in-thread read? and if you do believe there's a compelling reason to take his hypothetical pre-replacement read seriously over everyone else, why would you wait until end-of-day to act on that belief?

p-edit: i dont think this is the same question that looker asked, but yeah we're approaching this from a similar angle and i intuitively like that even if i shouldnt.

Not really sure what you're asking here. If you're saying "why would we settle for a policy lim instead of our scum reads," the answer is that we shouldn't. I'm saying if we're near EoD and we can't agree on a vote, Looker is a good choice since I'm pretty sure the slot isn't being town read.

To respond to 136, I would say, yeah, some of me vs. Andante could be characterized as a slapfight, but not all of it? Andante extended me a bit of an olive branch with 121, and I responded with 124, which is my theorizing on other slots keeping in mind the possibility of a TvT... so to say I need to focus on other slots is sort of... well, it just doesn't seem quite right to me. I'm sorry if you think I'm long-winded but, on the other hand, it's a 6 page game. I really don't think it's that bad... (I've played in a 17,000 post game before, so.)

However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Are you able to explain what makes you so confident on this? In my view, he's sort of the conundrum of, lowposting wolf vs. LHF bait.

Not sure if the discussion about a Looker policy lim is serious or a joke but would add that I am down for said policy lim for the sole reason that his avatar is HORRIFYING.

I wouldn't characterize it all as a slap fight, I think some of it gave us some alignment-indicative content to analyze, but after a certain point your argument stopped being productive. Like I said earlier, several people just stopped paying attention, and the closer we get to EoD the less helpful it is to keep a 1v1 going that not everyone is invested in. I don't want to vote either of you today and I don't want scum to have cover that let's them coast by.

I'm confident on Dwlee because they aren't a LHF player and their current posting is out of character for their town game. They aren't scum hunting, they don't seem to have any strong opinions, reads are minimal with little explanation, and there's just this general feeling of trepidation and caution that they've had in their posts. I'm not saying that there is a burden of proficiency here, I'm not expecting Dwlee to solve the game and claiming that I'll scum read them if they don't, but their play here doesn't really match with what I've seen in the past.

I have more to say, but I'm at work and my posts are going to be spread out until I get home and unwind.

[mc esther]

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus.

i dont get the policy elimination angle. assuming he scumread the slot before replacing in: why would we at deadline go "okay better sheep pre-replacement looker's hypothetical scumread" over sheeping any other player's actual stated in-thread read? and if you do believe there's a compelling reason to take his hypothetical pre-replacement read seriously over everyone else, why would you wait until end-of-day to act on that belief?

Not really sure what you're asking here. If you're saying "why would we settle for a policy lim instead of our scum reads," the answer is that we shouldn't. I'm saying if we're near EoD and we can't agree on a vote, Looker is a good choice since I'm pretty sure the slot isn't being town read.

im very much struggling to get that latter statement out of what you initially said. i suppose the claim here is that "looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots" can hold true in this case because nobody townread wh4t (except me -- i earlier implied that other players shared my townread, this is actually incorrect, and weakens the case for lurking maf!looker), but that's just such an odd way of phrasing the sentiment imo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: three

[Three]

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Also

Dear Three,

It's not personal. You're really smart but you're also really town, so I have to disagree with/undermine/gaslight/ignore you to get you to cease existing in this inconsequential game. I'm sure we'd be real good friends IRL...at least until you got to know me

I've killed Three twice as scum - in Open 383 (which is what the above is referring to), and Mini 2246 - for context. I feel this is why he said what he said.

That was Jacket that antagonized you, though, not me, so let's just be friends

I have no personal problems with you, I think you're a good player and generally pleasant. But I have noticed a pattern that extends beyond just the games we've played together in, such as the Cop Killer game that was brought up.

joqiza, and im not accusing you of anything because ik ive fucked this up in other gamethreads, but: "them" for dwlee, not "him".

this is perhaps a strategically unwise use for my postcount lmao but it's not like ive been posting a ton anyway. im really just waiting for umlaut to get in so we can maybe get some consensus and avoid a compromise deadline elim, and for three to get in so i can actually sort him beyond "idk lol vaguely weird". im not expecting andante to come back i have a hunch her inactivity's going to continue all the way to replacement (and i dont think that's ever alignment-indicative).

If there's anything else you want to know from me to get a better read on me, just shoot me some questions. I'll reply when I have the time. Why is your current stance on me "idk lol vaguely weird"?

[Three]

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus.

i dont get the policy elimination angle. assuming he scumread the slot before replacing in: why would we at deadline go "okay better sheep pre-replacement looker's hypothetical scumread" over sheeping any other player's actual stated in-thread read? and if you do believe there's a compelling reason to take his hypothetical pre-replacement read seriously over everyone else, why would you wait until end-of-day to act on that belief?

Not really sure what you're asking here. If you're saying "why would we settle for a policy lim instead of our scum reads," the answer is that we shouldn't. I'm saying if we're near EoD and we can't agree on a vote, Looker is a good choice since I'm pretty sure the slot isn't being town read.

im very much struggling to get that latter statement out of what you initially said. i suppose the claim here is that "looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots" can hold true in this case because nobody townread wh4t (except me -- i earlier implied that other players shared my townread, this is actually incorrect, and weakens the case for lurking maf!looker), but that's just such an odd way of phrasing the sentiment imo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: three

What exactly makes that scummy? What's your thought process that takes you to a place where you ignore you prior scum reads to vote me over my explanation behind potentially voting Looker? How are you struggling to understand yet repeating what I said so succinctly? Do you really believe the phrasing itself is enough to earn a scum read?

[mc esther]

im having a hard time believing that's what you meant, it looks like a retrofitted meaning for statement you hadnt fully thought through because youre not town. it "works" if you squint, like, you can totally claim that "looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots" actually meant "nobody's townreading wh4t, which makes me believe looker's intentionally repped into a scumslot, which i also believe is something he attempts to do". but i think what you wouldve said if you meant that wouldve been more along the lines of "wh4t and now looker have been lurking hardcore, so im not against a policy lim here. strengthening this, i also think looker tries to replace into scum slots", like, i think that first sentence is how people usually call for policy eliminations on lurkers.

[mc esther]

dont worry, i wont use post limit as an excuse to stop contributing so close to end of day, i'll dip into reserve if need be. you werent talking about lurking, you were talking about a lack of townreads, my bad; but my overall point remains the same, that i think youd emphasize the thing that actually made you want the policy elim (the lack of townreads on that slot, not lurking, my bad, though the two are related), rather than speculation on looker's replacement habits.