Micro 1044: A Normal Blitz V - Game Over

[shiki]

First

VOTE: shiki

Still haven't forgotten A Normal Blitz III.

wasn’t that a normal blitz ii? assuming you are referring to the one humaneatingmonkey and i were mafia together

iii was the one i played town as inutile and you weren’t in it unless you were playing on an alt

and the first normal blitz was town!shiki

and iv was again mafia!shiki

so by the mighty pattern, i am town here!

[shiki]

hi bugspray

[shiki]

hi shiki
this is like we are on on a train,
but
we are in a game of mafia
I hope this game will be okay

+)

[shiki]

Just kinda didn't agree with this here.

hm

which intro posts did you think were the scummiest then?

[shiki]

VOTE: Vanderscamp

just to move off e-1

or do you think vanderscamp's absence is ai?

[shiki]

And for the record, I have no particular reason to try to inspire movement in this game as mafia

? what

[shiki]

And for the record, I have no particular reason to try to inspire movement in this game as mafia

? what

like get townread > push wagon on non-partner > establish poe

is one of the strongest things to do as mafia in a blitz?

[shiki]

Basically just need one more townread for a winning POE.

like if you're town here

and your goal is to solo-solve the game by forming a coalition

could you at least do the thing?

like you've made no effort to sort me, you say your read of bugspray may be biased but don't seem to be taking steps to figure out if so or not, you're townreading looker for ??? reasons

and it's like, sure i'll accept your premise that apathy game can be good for scum if! the scum are being default townread, that is true,

but you saying looker is town and part of your game winning poe incentivizes looker not to post if anything, working against your stated goal here,

(which, uh, if you want to say that looker moving vote to get you off of e-1 is towny because you are town sure whatever you can have it,

but! to say poking at vanderscamp is towny for poking someone who has not posted without otherwise interacting with game when that is one of the easiest things to do as mafia is ??? at best)

[shiki]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

[shiki]

VOTE: shiki who do you think is scum and y didn't u vote like everyone else

currently i guess i think cape is the most likely

not confident in anyone being scum yet so i didn't vote

[shiki]

why do you think my not doing so is scum indicative?

[shiki]

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

where was i asking others to commit?

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

[shiki]

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

where was i asking others to commit?

if anything i think i was questioning the fact that jacket seemed to be committing to questionable townreads and poeing the rest????

[shiki]

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

[shiki]

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I wouldn't think so. Why is this a thought that popped in your head in regards to this game?

also could you answer this please?

[shiki]

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

also could you put more words as to

why you think it is suspicious for me to have not voted when you seem to think voting early would be what one does to fit in and not be suspicious,

like you say 'why didn't vote like everyone else' right? (which sure, you are not familiar with me and there is no expectation that you know how i play, et cetera, so it can be noteworthy to you that i did not vote and others did)

but i guess i am asking like, why do you think mafia would be more likely to not vote?

[shiki]

voting is noticeable and pokes the bear. not poking anyone seems like a good way to hide and make friends.

hm,

do you think 'hiding and making friends' was otherwise consistent with my posts towards jacket? (that you seemed to interpret as my asking for commitment ??)

do you think 'hiding and making friends' is otherwise consistent with my interaction with you so far?

[shiki]

in fairness, i think most of the arguments tend to be stupid if they're not based around a wagon or a flipped player, but it looks like that comes with the territory. that's not specific to this one game.

i mean, i disagree with this to a large extent, as day one wagons are often pushed through simply because the player was wagoned; people begin to say things like 'for information!' and like ............................... and there are generally better ways to sort players

but discussing approach to the game and so forth is very difficult to do during a game due to not being able to take anything anyone says at face value due to not knowing eachother's alignment

so!

[shiki]

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

? i said i suspected cape the most, and have also interacted with cape and will be looking to do so more certainly,

do you think my suspecting cape (who jacket has also added to coalition) means i should not also wonder about jacket's approach

like i do not really understand how your expectation of town!me here would be to what,

tunnel one player hope they are mafia?

[shiki]

Cape even more town for backing off on Jacket at a moment when it's a very defensible wagon to be on.

Shiki, explain why you think otherwise? Idgi.

i am having a very difficult time following their thought process as town

like it feels very a to f

like post is seemingly made for content production reasons, cape disagrees with it, which to cape means the forced content is more likely to be coming from mafia?

when asked about this though, cape says that all reads made on rvs posts are not good though,

and then after looker moves votes and it feels like waves are moving away from jacket,

it felt to me like cape was like, moving towards townreading jacket in what felt like a kinda forced progression to me, as the whole coalition approach that cape specifically cited as +town for jacket seemed pretty hmmmmm to me

[shiki]

no, i think u should be free to do what you want, but I'm also free enough to question the pattern. I don't think you'd be this defensive if i hadn't have voted u. edit: I'm not fast enough

okay do you think defensiveness to being voted is also scum indicative? or perhaps a player specific trait?

[shiki]

no, i think u should be free to do what you want, but I'm also free enough to question the pattern. I don't think you'd be this defensive if i hadn't have voted u. edit: I'm not fast enough

okay do you think defensiveness to being voted is also scum indicative? or perhaps a player specific trait?

(hint: i could show you many games that demonstrate that the originally cited non-usage of my vote is not scum!indicative, as well as my defensiveness towards being voted {as the one thing i know for sure right now, the one thing i am 100% certain of is that i am town} is also not scum!indicative if you really need me to)

but really i'm not trying to defend myself as much as trying to see if your view of me seems more likely to come from town or scum

and i only know that it comes off as defensiveness as i have been accused of being very defensive so many times previously

but also! importantly, i was available this morning and likely would have tried pretty hard to interact to anyone who posted after me, shrug

[shiki]

Cape even more town for backing off on Jacket at a moment when it's a very defensible wagon to be on.

Shiki, explain why you think otherwise? Idgi.

i am having a very difficult time following their thought process as town

like it feels very a to f

like post is seemingly made for content production reasons, cape disagrees with it, which to cape means the forced content is more likely to be coming from mafia?

when asked about this though, cape says that all reads made on rvs posts are not good though,

and then after looker moves votes and it feels like waves are moving away from jacket,

it felt to me like cape was like, moving towards townreading jacket in what felt like a kinda forced progression to me, as the whole coalition approach that cape specifically cited as +town for jacket seemed pretty hmmmmm to me

I really don't agree that "waves are moving away from jacket" is a good description of the game state when Cape changed votes. Looker moved vote away but as far as I can tell it was just because they weren't ready for E-1, not because they were particularly townreading Jacket. I don't entirely understand that argument that they're town but I don't need to understand it exactly to see the vote change as, like, the opposite of opportunistic.

still waiting on looker to expand on reasoning but that seems decent assumption to me as i talked about before

it feels that way to me as i don’t often see wagons like that immediately go back up (though are often revisited later) so seems like an opportunity for scum to make like ‘believable progression’ posts and the progression itself didn’t really make sense to me

sorry

[shiki]

It's a gut read. It's fine if you disagree. It will likely end up meaningless in the long term. But why should making a gut read you disagree with make me mafia?

You're saying 15 was an actual read and not just page 1 shitposting?

VOTE: Jacket

E-1. I like this wagon.

Yes, exactly that, I just like getting wagons going early.

This is a real vote though, I think you've read everything aimed in your direction as unduly serious in a way that suggests a scummy hypersensitivity.

This is my first normal blitz, but when you realized that jacket's push was serious and then you put him at E-1 shouldn't there have been a request for him to claim?

uh, no?

[shiki]

It's a gut read. It's fine if you disagree. It will likely end up meaningless in the long term. But why should making a gut read you disagree with make me mafia?

You're saying 15 was an actual read and not just page 1 shitposting?

VOTE: Jacket

E-1. I like this wagon.

Yes, exactly that, I just like getting wagons going early.

This is a real vote though, I think you've read everything aimed in your direction as unduly serious in a way that suggests a scummy hypersensitivity.

This is my first normal blitz, but when you realized that jacket's push was serious and then you put him at E-1 shouldn't there have been a request for him to claim?

uh, no?

Okay.

like purpose of claim at e-1 is to prevent a pr elimination like a fallback plan in case a pr is wagoned

but if the e-1 doesn’t come with real threat of elimination (as had someone yolo hammered that and jacket flipped town the hammerer pretty likely to have a lot of {probably futile} explaining to do) then claim has no benefit and only downside

so while should definitely make it clear it’s e-1 in that situation expectation of claim would be ?

[shiki]

like you've made no effort to sort me, you say your read of bugspray may be biased but don't seem to be taking steps to figure out if so or not, you're townreading looker for ??? reasons

Prior to this you had 5 posts, all of which were incredibly underwhelming. I had you as highly likely to be scum, I was just holding off on saying it. The thing about trying to POE the game on day 1 is that I don't actually need to "sort" you, I just need to get the correct townreads. Same deal with bugspray. I felt they were being bizarrely overconfident in speaking for cape and jumping on me in a way that did't really make sense. If they're town being obnoxious, that's kind of whatever.


Looker come from a bit of experience in the game we were scum together. It's not a strong read still but felt like actually calling someone out for inactivity was proactive for him.

based on what exactly? the problem with poeing the game like this is it doesn’t actually incentivize the thing you are claiming it does not does it give any leeway for you being wrong

[shiki]

*nor

[shiki]

hi datisi,

i have been closing all of my brackets for you (hopefully)

[shiki]

Dorsey is probably town.

kinda feels like dorsey

wants

to scumread me and is now waiting to see if there's traction

but also not really sure the

wanting

to scumread me is a mafia only trait

[shiki]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

Alright so about your suspicion on me, let us start here, what are you not following here in terms of logic?

I will admit that maybe my read on 65 was a bit shallow, I don't think I really have seen mafia make a post about finding 1 more town for a winning POE. I feel like that would just close off options if the supposed winning POE is wrong. i guess in other words I tend to see mafia try to keep their options more open

it's like,

jacket says 'this the scummiest rvs!'

you disagree with this, but as you've clarified when questioned, this is because you think any reads based on rvs are questionable and that you thought jacket maybe was just trying to look busy, right

but if all reads based on rvs are questionable, and you didn't find any of the other posts scummier than the one pointed out just that you found it scummy for any of them to be pointed out, it's like ... but then why would this be more likely mafia trying to look busy than town moving the game? and what would have been a towny thing for anyone to be doing? continuing to rvs indefinitely?

but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger

as jacket was certainly doing things and saying 'i want to have conversations/produce content' but not really taking actions towards this goal but rather the building coalition goal

which was both not encouraging me/bugspray to have a conversation/produce content right, jacket was not really reaching out to us to get a read on us, and was also townreading players for very little without engaging them further just issuing a townread right

so it seems weird to me that you viewed this and thought, ah, that's towny now

and timing of it felt in line with potential mafia reasoning to me as i explained to umlaut

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

thoughts on datisi?

[shiki]

Only players I haven't seen really criticized are bugspray and Cape

wait has looker been criticized?

like you say you're biased towards their posting style and such sure

and! that everyone has to be pressured/we need to look under all of the rocks and so forth

but did this actually occur somewhere

[shiki]

Jacket...I like them but didn't want to broadcast it because they said they townread me.

I was trying to emulate their reaction testing with Shiki but I don't have as many posts.

hm

what made you assume that this is what jacket was doing?

[shiki]

Dorsey is probably town.

kinda feels like dorsey

wants

to scumread me and is now waiting to see if there's traction

but also not really sure the

wanting

to scumread me is a mafia only trait

I want to say shiki is town.

[shiki]

Particularly note their read on Vander: "I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me," followed by their read on Shiki: "I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying." This former read looks like it's arguing for a Shiki-Vander team but the latter looks like they don't even believe that?

eh, i don't really think the first is much of an argument for a scumteam; there are lots of non-partner reasons i can think of for one player protecting another

and! i do think it is somewhat noteworthy the way players pushed dorsey following our interaction,

[shiki]

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

wait what vote

[shiki]

there are lots of non-partner reasons i can think of for one player protecting another

(and i am kinda worried about vanderscamp along the same lines as jacket is worried about dorsey above)

[shiki]

On this topic, in regards to the whole Jacket coalition thing, just noticed 195 and it seems a bit unsure of itself if we are really going with the coalition thing

i mean,

this game isn't coalition so jacket was doing so without the actual result of 'we win the game if right' and was also doing so on their own more or less, so it was always to be an abandoned project at some point regardless of alignment,

[shiki]

i think as scum townreading someone for doing something that is towny on a shallow level is a good way to accumulate trust

[shiki]

I'm struggling to come up with content that is not borderline offensive. Somebody accuse me of something.

why do you think

you haven't been pressured?

in a game with players saying,

pressure players/make them produce content is the way to find the scums!

[shiki]

also can't you just express the borderline offensive content in a different way i don't really understand

[shiki]

unless it's not game related in which case ???

[shiki]

(also i think the jacket wagon didn't go through because you unvoted and then i didn't push for jacket elimination/vote when i came to the thread

which makes me wonder why you are asking jacket why the jacket wagon didn't go through after you unvoted the wagon at e-1

like 'do you think you were not eliminated largely because of me?' seems kinda hm)

but also you're not really in the deep end of the suspect pool right now so

it's not really expected that your content would be

'see i'm town you're alive!'

[shiki]

but also i guess maybe i shouldn't be answering that because it could have had some great hidden purpose

and because jacket was earlier upset with bugspray replying to a question directed towards cape

[shiki]

which also if you really think about umlaut's e-1 is probably more +partner than -partner as it rushes the process of finding new wagon and such

as i don't think (?) there was anyone not on the wagon who would be expected to hammer that wagon as town

so kinda free distancing perhaps

(but could have also been attempt to get a mafia to reveal themselves by hammering, which, hm)

[shiki]

I finally have free time and feel like...talking?

do you think it is noteworthy that dorsey assumed jacket was mainly reaction testing?/did you make a similar assumption?

[shiki]

Because nobody wants to play with me because they've played with me before and know I'm not interesting.

this is an interesting line of thought to me

but! i am unfamiliar with you (as with much of the game)

so more so in the applying it to myself and seeing if that lends anything rather than applying it to you sense;

[shiki]

kinda feel like any extra time granted in a blitz is somewhat unfair

but also yeah i chose not to comment on 125 and will continue to do so but yeah

[shiki]

Is this just to get him to talk or are you going to eliminate him?

them

pedited same post

[shiki]

also i'm putting bugs on y-1 if they have not produced quality content by the time i'm done with studying the current lesson

bugspray leaning into the outrage as a way to avoid actually playing the game takes my "meh" compromise vote to an actually serious one I feel strongly about.

could either/both of you explain to me what you think town!bugspray's reaction to your posts here would be

[shiki]

They're not reacting to me, so this is a nonsense question.

no i mean the post you just made

like you say bugspray feeling this way makes your vote a serious one without any attempt to interact with bugspray otherwise and so forth,

so i am asking how you would expect town!bugspray to react to that?

[shiki]

you can even answer for eachother,

jacket, do you think town!datisi would think town!bugspray is going to "produce quality content" because threat of e-1 here?

[shiki]

They're not reacting to me, so this is a nonsense question.

no i mean the post you just made

like you say bugspray feeling this way makes your vote a serious one without any attempt to interact with bugspray otherwise and so forth,

so i am asking how you would expect town!bugspray to react to that?

I literally don't care.

okay so it has what goal other than to try to eliminate bugspray regardless of alignment?

[shiki]

Is emotional manipulation a part of the game? I thought it was clearly a joke.

anything that makes the game feel like not a game makes the game very very difficult for me to play

[shiki]

Here's a question for you: what the fuck are you trying to accomplish in this game?

trying to find the scums, shrug,

[shiki]

jacket, do you think town!datisi would think town!bugspray is going to "produce quality content" because threat of e-1 here?

i know this isn't technically a question for me, but

town!bugs would've started screaming how i'm scum pushing a easy misyeet there

town!bugs was never afraid of confronting me, while scum!bugs pretty much always is

also, judging by those queue posts, incoming a replacement

i'm wondering if we should just hammer the slot and save micc the trouble

eh

i think bugspray was upset for not really game related reasons regardless of alignment

and that saying 'produce quality content! or i'll e-1' at that time

without even engaging bugspray in conversation about anything about the game

would be pretty unlikely to lead to town!bugspray pausing to give opinions on the game and such

[shiki]

would be pretty unlikely to lead to town!bugspray pausing to give opinions on the game and such

i don't think scum!bugspray would have either

but i guess i don't see how either of you at the time of posting could have been thinking, this course of action will lead to their alignment being revealed

[shiki]

the point wasn't to get bugs to give game-related thoughts, the point was to see if bugs was gonna call me scum for it

hm, fair enough, like i do not know enough about your specific interactions and so forth to have thoughts about that,

[shiki]

the point wasn't to get bugs to give game-related thoughts, the point was to see if bugs was gonna call me scum for it

hm, fair enough, like i do not know enough about your specific interactions and so forth to have thoughts about that,

just didn't seem like it was likely to yield anything to me

[shiki]

the point wasn't to get bugs to give game-related thoughts, the point was to see if bugs was gonna call me scum for it

hm, fair enough, like i do not know enough about your specific interactions and so forth to have thoughts about that,

just didn't seem like it was likely to yield anything to me

and felt kinda like you were both doing something designed to say "see! bugspray is scum!" even though it'd be suspected result for them as either alignment

[shiki]

suspected

*expected

[shiki]

here's the relevant posts from a recent mini normal where i caught scum!bugs on the same "avoiding seriously pushing me" tell

hm, can kinda see the line of thinking then,

though it seems quite unlikely we get anything further here yeah

[shiki]

VOTE: dorsey

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

[shiki]

VOTE: dorsey

why

was going to be only occasionally phone available for the next 4-5 hours and wanted to make my current preference known due to deadline but no longer necessary

[shiki]

i am slightly annoyed that there has been little to no reactions on my meta case but ok

i think your meta case is non-applicable to this situation

like bugspray was upset about looker post then was immediately misgendered by looker after saying so

so any expectation of ‘well town!bugspray would have called me scum at this moment due to my asking for content but scum!bugspray would not’

seems kinda n/a yeah due to the events

[shiki]

Also Datisi is mafia.

this is somewhat compelling more words please

[shiki]

Because nobody wants to play with me because they've played with me before and know I'm not interesting.

The reason I don't want to play with you is this: (the reason is contained within a spoiler).

And the sooner you kill someone, the less they get to play, so I can see why someone would get hyperdefensive and take it personally.

Spoiler:

Cape90, I hope you know that my vote on you means I personally dislike you and want you to die. You are horrible.

@Mod if a player gets force replaced can we get bonus time equal to the time between the offending posts which were the reason for the force replacement and the actual time of the force replacement?

bugspray's iso wasn't that expansive before post 125, though. i don't get it.

i… don’t really think we need to talk about that anymore -

could you respond to 230-231 please

[shiki]

Also Datisi is mafia.

this is somewhat compelling more words please

do you think i'm scum?

going to wait on enchant to add words

[shiki]

(assuming that is somewhat soonish, at the very least)

[shiki]

Jacket...I like them but didn't want to broadcast it because they said they townread me.

I was trying to emulate their reaction testing with Shiki but I don't have as many posts.

hm

what made you assume that this is what jacket was doing?

I don't know any other way to explain the random voting stage.

hm

this just feels like such a weird amount of confidence that jacket was town,

like you though jacket was posting in a way that he didn't really believe in (thus 'reaction testing')

but didn't think that lack of belief in his posting was possibly mafia indicative or something to be questioned (at a time when jacket was the leading wagon)

but rather, i will emulate this elsewhere!

while also not really noting something about those wagoning the player you assumed to be town

and it's like hmhmhm

[shiki]

i would bet that enchant's claim was not supposed to be serious, or at most based on "datisi vote me " but i will let them clarify

(i kinda assumed what you did but also wanted enchant to post more and also have at times felt like you were not so concerned with actually finding mafia)

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: cape


I'll move to compromise if necessary but think both current wagons are somewhat uninspired. I kind of like Enchant's entrance.

eh feels like you were working back towards this before enchant's entrance,

I am still explicitly not townreading cape

[shiki]

eh feels like you were working back towards this before enchant's entrance,

or rather before enchant really made any posts that i think (?) would possibly be town indicative to you?

but i guess you could have been referring to first couple enchant posts, in which case i guess i'd wonder

why

[shiki]

VOTE: dorsey

e-1 for claim

will be around in ~1ish hours

[shiki]

it's been a while since i've seen that much nonsense and nai things thrown at me in a supposed-to-be scumcase in a long while

[shiki]

as i said, has been a while

kinda made me feel like {cape, datisi} was more likely than previously

[shiki]

and looking back through doesn't completely not check out, so

but doesn't seem very most likely

[shiki]

Something in soul now whisper me it's wrong choice but late to back off?

hm, if your whisper is regarding me, just ignore it

[shiki]

if it's regarding datisi's sigh and intent, then i have whisper too but still want claim, so!

either way!!! stay the course i think

[shiki]

(though same whisper with regards to datisi's intent applies to your 'too late?')

[shiki]

VOTE: Dorsey

? because lack of claim?

[shiki]

hm

kinda think jacket is most likely partner on red flip

due to pretty weird reads of eachother and complete lack of interaction between them in isos

but hammer kinda hm on its own

[shiki]

hmhmhm

why do we think jacket was nightkilled?

[shiki]

I was afraid of this. Full disclosure: I only joined this game so that I could play with Dorsey, but now that she's dead (and for undisclosable reasons I have more time to devote to this thread), I know it's going to be an uphill battle and I'm willing to undertake it. Long story short, you killed my Ico and my Ico turned out to be scum.

hmm,

if you joined to play with dorsey, is there a reason you didn't seem invested in determining dorsey's alignment yesterday? (other than limited time)

[shiki]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

it's like it's like it's like

there are pretty important questions for us to ask ourselfs for most of the slots

like

for umlaut/vanderscamp it's like, do we think they were hardbussing? or! do we think they were distancing and felt they were stuck when the tides turned to dorsey?
for enchant, do we think enchant's whisper/stated cold feet (though didn't unvote) were potentially partner indicative? and if so, why did enchant vote dorsey in the first place?
for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?
for datisi, do we think datisi's stance towards dorsey from jacket's "we need a wagon" vote on is one mafia would take towards a partner?
(and also for cape/datisi, are they currently poeing themselfs?)

[shiki]

for umlaut/vanderscamp it's like, do we think they were hardbussing? or! do we think they were distancing and felt they were stuck when the tides turned to dorsey?

because if not hardbussing or stuck, then town, yeah,

[shiki]

for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?

Votecount 1.04

Dorsey (2) -

Vanderscamp, Umlaut

Cape90 (2) -

Looker, Jacket

bugspray (2) -

Dorsey, Cape90

Jacket (1) -

bugspray

Umlaut (1) -

Datisi

Not Voting (1) -

shiki

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-08 01:00:00).

so from here it is like, now let's see if they tried to get others to join

[shiki]

for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?

Votecount 1.04

Dorsey (2) -

Vanderscamp, Umlaut

Cape90 (2) -

Looker, Jacket

bugspray (2) -

Dorsey, Cape90

Jacket (1) -

bugspray

Umlaut (1) -

Datisi

Not Voting (1) -

shiki

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-08 01:00:00).

so from here it is like, now let's see if they tried to get others to join

actually should definitely start before this

as cape unvoted vanderscamp, voted bugspray and then dorsey immediately followed

which you could maybe say dorsey was doing because pressure on dorsey,

have to look closer at this/build bigger picture

[shiki]

VOTE: Vanderscamp

Game staling, slash slash

if you think vanderscamp is most likely mafia could you explain why please? and also why you think vanderscamp took that approach to dorsey day one?

also if you feel game is stalling trying to solve it/trying to get others engaged in solving it is probably better than naked vote wagon as a way to break the stall

but also it's kinda weird to say it was stalling here without giving an opinion on the large amount of words cape and datisi have been posting for eachother as a continuation of conversation from yesterday

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

[shiki]

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

which, i mean, probably roughly as similar as anyone if not more so as i very very rarely think, oh! that is like me! and have thought that about multiple cape posts

I feel like I am the type of player who likes to be careful day 1 (especially since I have been wrong A LOT).

[shiki]

i'm townreading everyone on the wagon

this makes a lot of sense as far as like,

would need very good reason to look outside of {datisi, cape, looker} right now

yeah

[shiki]

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

which, i mean, probably roughly as similar as anyone if not more so as i very very rarely think, oh! that is like me! and have thought that about multiple cape posts

I feel like I am the type of player who likes to be careful day 1 (especially since I have been wrong A LOT).

and the like, specific narrow extended interaction thing is something scum!me has leaned on;

here's my iso from silent star: lunacy (as drusilla)

day one into the first post of day two (written during the night) of this (iso posts 1-19) is probably the best example of my doing so (thought i was informed minority up until that point, there was a twist et cetera but all of that not so important to the point here)

(can even find elements of this in the way i sought out datisi to interact with at different points of last normal blitz which is why i originally started thinking about this here)

[shiki]

(going to look at other cape games later today)

[shiki]

here's my iso from silent star: lunacy (as drusilla)

day one into the first post of day two (written during the night) of this (iso posts 1-19) is probably the best example of my doing so (thought i was informed minority up until that point, there was a twist et cetera but all of that not so important to the point here)

i am referring to my approach to interacting with kanna here, sorry if unclear

[shiki]

I was already at least leaning town on shiki and this makes me more confident in that, because I don't think she plants this idea in twilight and then just offs Jacket anyway. I can maybe envision some sort of 7d chess gambit where she does that just to make people like me think exactly what I am thinking, but in reality I just do not expect that sort of thing to happen much.

feel like i am more or less confirmed; like one would have to believe that i intentionally made the game much harder for myself with my approach to dorsey to believe i was mafia here,

most likely explanation for jacket kill to me would be because mafia thought jacket was somewhat likely to be a mason due to hammer with no claim, but am curious if there are others

[shiki]

like one would have to believe that i intentionally made the game much harder for myself with my approach to dorsey to believe i was mafia here,

which also would have made the game kinda miserable for dorsey? and like, yeah,

[shiki]

VOTE: Vanderscamp

Game staling, slash slash

if you think vanderscamp is most likely mafia could you explain why please? and also why you think vanderscamp took that approach to dorsey day one?

i mean, you could answer this if you're bored...

[shiki]

wait give more than a second we have lots of time i still have things i want to look at and such just haven't had chance yet

[shiki]

for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?

Thought never crossed my mind by the way

it was hard for me to determine much from this as jacket moved to bugspray and yeah

[shiki]

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

I wouldn't say we play similarly and dunno exactly were you get that from. Like if you just got that from like 423 I would say that it's pretty flawed and doesn't seem like, all that uncommon so like ?

i guess i get that from a lot of things; like you asking dorsey why they had the thought about the game with no scum slots, how you seem to be constructing a model of the thought processes at times, your post about the 'good posts made by mafia', and the case on datisi

though i think there are differences of course (you seem to be a much better communicator than i am, and most of your logic seems to be more based in reality)

but i feel like there are similarities in approach that maybe aren't super common

but also maybe they are or maybe they are not all that similar or maybe they are outweighed by other factors

just the way things felt to me

[shiki]

around later

looker should probably claim

doesn’t seem most likely to me right now but also doesn’t seem to be moving self towards readable

please do not end day

[shiki]

okayokayokay

sorry for delay

has been a very long day

[shiki]

going to try to keep my eyes open as long as i can and go through slot by slot

[shiki]

Give me a second before flip, I wanna cast a vote first

How much more time do you need
I was waiting for final responses before I dropped anchor, but I'm kinda set already

who did you want to vote tho

[shiki]

starting with enchant i suppose; enchant is like, very likely town yeah? like betting the game on enchant being town seems fine and also

good

like if you go back to very shortly after enchant arrives,

the situation is that i have just made it clear that dorsey is my preferred vote (umlaut and vanderscamp are already voting dorsey), enchant was the other leading wagon, and then! jacket votes cape immediately followed by datisi, and this is enchant's reaction to this:

I walked CAPE ISO AND IT LOOKS DECENT, atleast i can't notice something outrageous.

and then enchant sleeps, returns to the thread and says this:

I want give more attention to Dorsey.

and then shortly thereafter votes dorsey

like does anyone really think the narrative is that enchant replaced into the game, interacted with datisi, then decided to oppose a new counterwagon to both enchant and dorsey and then push dorsey? like what would have to even be occurring for that to be the scumplan, like dorsey would have had to have been saying something like 'bus me no matter what even if there are other reasonable lines' for that to have been the immediate plan of action yeah?

so i think enchant clear don't really understand what those still suspicious (vanderscamp?) seeing that i am not

[shiki]

interestingly enough i was just writing post about you (also very likely town)

[shiki]

i don't really agree about cape being townier than enchant, will outline in future, though going through with my finest tooth comb has made it feel like

{looker, umlaut, datisi}

may be better narrowing to three than {cape, looker, datisi}

[shiki]

(also very likely town)

though of course tired messy brain is like 'but maybe vanderscamp is being super cheeky with

but sometimes the mafias do -ev plays

after vanderscamp hardpushed dorsey post-dorsey's interactions with me and hard townread me and called out others reads of dorsey

and! there was this moment on page 15 where if i squint it feels like you were maybe trying to make your way off of dorsey onto enchant

if! you could first pick up another vote from someone else on enchant but then unable because enchant voted dorsey and i followed suit

[shiki]

though of course tired messy brain is like 'but maybe vanderscamp is being super cheeky with but sometimes the mafias do -ev plays

after vanderscamp hardpushed dorsey post-dorsey's interactions with me and hard townread me and called out others reads of dorsey

but! would rather simply treat this as likely coming from town than listen to messy brain right now

and! will just leave moment as a notable thing that i would like others to look at but was not enough to sway me from this likely town feeling

[shiki]

and other than the feeling in that moment the only notable potential negatives with regards to vanderscamp are probably intentional wifom from flipped mafia (kinda awkward rvses of eachother; the dorsey 'i think it's vanderscamp' wifom post at the end of day), so!

[shiki]

the only notable potential negatives with regards to vanderscamp

which like, there just aren't actually any negatives for enchant? like actually none yeah?

only 'but mafia

could

make all of those posts if they really wanted to for whatever reason even though it probably works against their win condition'

which like, is always true

mafia

could

make any post

i

could

be mafia right now

et cetera

[shiki]

which like, there just aren't actually any negatives for enchant? like actually none yeah?

cold feet thing i guess? sure maybe still notable, probably actually have been undervaluing this,

but still does not feel like very heavy

[shiki]

always end up feeling like everyone is mafia

so so so have to keep weighing as have been

or will just end up with list of

why everyone is likely mafia

[shiki]

...

[shiki]

enchant do you still think it is likely datisi?

[shiki]

(also, in case actually unclear, i wasn't scumclaiming there, rather pointing out how the 'well mafia

could

be doing this towny thing' argument feels to me in a way i probably should not have)

[shiki]

I am not disagreeing with idea behind your posts, i just dislike how you showed it.

yeah i get it i even said i probably should have not said it that way

though my point certainly wasn't that i have any amount of competence in finding the mafia rather that i also pushed dorsey just as you did and vanderscamp did

and thus saying i

could

be doing so as mafia would be like saying you

could

be doing so as mafia

but i guess maybe there's another reason why this was a bad way to show it

as vanderscamp would likely simply say that how i did so was towny et cetera not simply the fact that i did so

which well sure yes i obviously agree with this as looking at umlaut it's significantly more complicated

i guess mostly maybe i disagree with vanderscamp that how you did so was maybe not towny?

[shiki]

also, uh, my bad on the time thing here if we end up flipping looker and looker is mafia

[shiki]

Nah, too awkward with hammers.

Like, asking "I fear it was not hammered" and not hammering it instantly (i needed to suggest) probably makes datisi more town.

hm

i, don't really see it

like it just seems like a fear you would simply check

and then it either wouldn't be a fear anymore as you would then know it was already hammered

or you would hammer

[shiki]

If you look at everyone and say "Well mafia could do that", you never find scum.

yes! this is what i was trying to say

shiki, time-time. Who is maf you think?

looker > datisi = umlaut > cape

right now i think

[shiki]

enchant is one of my strongest townreads and that feels so weird to say

enchant is my strongest townread

so!

[shiki]

looker > datisi = umlaut > cape

like the major point in favour of datisi is approach to today

like scum!datisi's plan here would have had to have had very little room for error

like if looker or cape was a pr then what

but also i think datisi would maybe view that as best possible path even though on surface is deadend

eh i want to move cape back down to even with others here like there are a lot of things i have noted and! there isn't a mafia sample in cape's completed games so if i think of cape as a very good player as mafia (which seems more likely than cape being a below average player as mafia) and think of their play here, (though i was not able to look as closely elsewhere as i might have liked) still seems like some of the notes have weight to them

but also i know i have to make choices

[shiki]

starting to get the 'it's probably best if noone reads anything i write' feeling so maybe we just send it

[shiki]

sure

VOTE: looker

[shiki]

e-1

[shiki]

?

[shiki]

VOTE: Cape90 I disagree with y'all

i mean, at times cape has felt the most likely mafia to me, more often than not really, but i also wouldn’t expect you to agree with your own elimination?

(though earlier you seemed oddly unopposed to it?)

[shiki]

here’s hoping

[shiki]

thankyou for moderating

You're welcome!
I'll run another if there's interest, but general enthusiasm seemed a little low here so maybe I'll wait a bit.

always interested in playing in these normal blitzes if i am available enough at the time