Mini Theme 2259: Superfight Mafia!

[Roden]

im here

This is awkward, sorry Cyrus.

[Roden]

Do people actually think NK15 is scum or is this a meme wagon?

[Roden]

JJH locktown probably.

Pooky and Dwlee voting together means they're either just good buddies, or one of them is scum and is using the other as a conduit of towniness.

Flea is just looking to have fun. Probably town?

NM soul read as scum. Miltank is too OP for this set up anyway.

Need more time to get a read on everyone else.

[Roden]

Do people actually think NK15 is scum or is this a meme wagon?

He's probably actually scum

His ISO looks like my ISO when I'm town. BUT maybe pushing the game forward is just the better option here.

VOTE: NK15

NM are you here?

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

Took too long.

[Roden]

VOTE: NK15

[Roden]

Do people actually think NK15 is scum or is this a meme wagon?

He's probably actually scum

His ISO looks like my ISO when I'm town.

You know what they say: "Turnabout is fair play." Not Known 15 has been torn apart by hyenas. They were:

Spoiler:

MAFIA

OOF

Ok now I get why I usually get scum read Day 1

[Roden]

With Pooky dead this soon Dwlee is probably town. I don't know Pooky well enough though to have an idea of who'd want him out the way ASAP. I figured even scum would want him around for the memes. Unless maybe they were hoping he had the best chance of taking out JJH?

[Roden]

A HAMMMER!

Vote Count 1.3

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone to take vengeance on the filthy cat killers.

Not Known 15 (0 votes til death): PookyTheMagicalBear, Dwlee99, Radical Rat, TemporalLich, Galron, Roden, Not_Mafia
jjh927 (6 votes til death): Not Known 15
Radical Rat (6 votes til death): Galron
Flea The Magician (6 votes til death): jjh927
Not_Mafia (7 votes til death):
Enchant (7 votes til death):
Firebringer (7 votes til death):
PookyTheMagicalBear (7 votes til death):
Galron (7 votes til death):
Roden (7 votes til death):
Dwlee99 (7 votes til death):
TemporalLich (7 votes til death):
Faerie Mages (7 votes til death):

Ok, so we have two people off wagon: NK15, who flipped scum, and JJH, who is locktown. The Galron vote on Radical Rat is an error, his last vote was on NK15.

We also had four people just not voting at all: Flea, Enchant, Firebringer, and Faerie. None of them ever voted NK15, nor did they ever really interact with them, so I don't really see any associatives. Faerie at the very least does look uninformed though, the shade on JJH right before NK15 flipped red makes me think that they genuinely didn't know he'd flip red.

I don't think both scum stayed off the wagon, and I don't think both bussed either. I also town lean a couple of the people on the wagon. So for me, I think either Radical Rat, Galron, or NM bussed. For the non-voters, it's between Flea, Enchant, and Firebringer. I'll be going by this PoE this game, and starting off with:

VOTE: Flea

[Roden]

I'd seen that defense of Flea by NK15, but I wasn't sure what to think of it. It's possible he just spewed fae as town, I just don't want to write Flea off as town yet until fae starts town telling.

I do think it's pretty +town to defend Flea here though. Game state vibes suggest the scum team don't have any momentum and aren't doing much to try to control the game state, but also need to keep potential mis-elim choices open if fae is town. There was hardly any resistance to the NK15 wagon and there weren't any notable counter wagons. They're likely playing cautiously since their first scum buddy got ran up quickly.

Which brings me to Enchant and Firebringer. I think scum has to be here, I'm gonna try looking more closely at their ISOs.

[Roden]

Game staling, when we start murdering?

Enchant is mostly just messing around in his ISO, this sticks out a bit though because he complains about the game stalling but he doesn't do much to push the game forward. He doesn't even vote the leading wagon despite him wanting to start killing people.

Finally, Murder.

VOTE: NK15

This vote doesn't make any sense, he finally votes the leading wagon after it's already been hammered.

@Enchant:

Why didn't you want to vote NK15? Do you have any reads?

[Roden]

Game staling, when we start murdering?

The game is stalling because there are some complacent people who haven't expressed a single read, or the absence of reads other than null. Scum are probably waiting for someone to vote me to E-1 so that Not Mafia can lolhammer and produce a cheap mislim.
Well, this situation again...
So... can someone tell me why they are not voting jjh? Or why jjh is supposed to be town?

This post is kinda funny in hindsight but I admittedly town read this before the flip, probably because the frustration feels genuine. Poor guy wasn't getting any help at all from his buddies.

[Roden]

Firebringer is lockscum but I want him for elo

I think RR is scum

Galron, do you think these two are the rest of the scum team?

[Roden]

VOTE: Enchant

Yeah I'm fine with this. Pretty sure we win this by power elimming the PoE and sheeping JJH.

[Roden]

The cow made me do it

VOTE: flea

Isn't that a Conjuring movie

[Roden]

you do realize radical rat is scum right?

voting me only makes this game even more scumsided than it already is

This is one of the towniest posts of all time.

[Roden]

VOTE: Radical Rat

[Roden]

Lmao

Pretty sure that was meant to be a frame attempt on TL. Scum probably wanted them to win the fight because right around now would've been a good time to send in scum to fight so that they don't have to 1v1 towards end game. And there's absolutely no way scum were trying to fear kill TL, even if anything they said was right nobody was actually listening to them. The plan was likely for him to win and then take all the heat today for being super scummy all game and putting Rat at an early E-1 without announcing it.

But, they didn't account for TL making a niche fighter choice that you would have to Google to find out what the hell it even was.

Faerie is also locktown because scum don't try to 1v1 a scum read townie ever.

So that leaves me at a Galron/Dwlee/NM PoE.

VOTE: Galron

[Roden]

LMAO

Galron do you really think freezing up OMGUS voting is the towniest thing you could be doing right now

[Roden]

Wow

[Roden]

Wait really?

Huh. I thought I was more active this game.

[Roden]

Galron panic spewing lol. I know this is just a meme game and we're not really taking it seriously, but he's making it really obvious that he's scum at this point.

[Roden]

That's the team right? Faerie and Mage plus Roden?

Huge scumslip

Galron 100% was smiling as he was typing these posts lol

[Roden]

We can also, you know, play mafia and scum hunt.

[Roden]

JJH and Faerie are 100% locktown, scum actively tried to kill both of them. Flea isn't 100% locktown but that's why we scum hunt. I'm voting Galron because Dwlee and NM spewed that they weren't aligned. Galron's reaction to my vote was scum indicative so I'm fine with keeping my vote there.

[Roden]

I think I just did that? I have a PoE of three people, we kill one today then the other dies tonight in a fight. If both scum don't flip one after the other but we still get at least one red flip, then we can vote out the last one and win. And I kinda prefer to do this while we're both still in the game and have a solid town core.

Idk I think we're just saying the same thing here.

[Roden]

I do agree that Faerie should state their town case on Flea, since that's the only town read I have that I haven't locked in yet.

[Roden]

I think the secret to reading NM is that if you give NM the space to troll and lolhammer and then that is the only thing he does in the whole game over multiple day phases then he is scum

I've seen him do that as town if he isn't invested in the game, unfortunately. And I've seen him put in effort as scum.

[Roden]

JJH what's your read on Galron? What about me, Flea, and Faerie?

[Roden]

You think scum set themselves up to fight two nights in a row and won both times? Why does Faerie set themself up against Lich even though they were mis-elim bait?

I don't really have a strong reason to town read Flea but I trust all of the earlier town reads that were made previous days.

What makes Galron town?

[Roden]

Galron panic spewing lol. I know this is just a meme game and we're not really taking it seriously, but he's making it really obvious that he's scum at this point.

That's the team right? Faerie and Mage plus Roden?

Huge scumslip

Galron 100% was smiling as he was typing these posts lol

Scummy reaction. Roden hasn't scum read me all game and then this?

Could you explain why that's a scummy reaction? Do you think it's impossible for town to reevaluate their read on you?

Also why do I say to vote you here if I'm scum? If multiple suspect Flea and Faerie, if one of them were my partner I'd just vote the townie out. With NM in the game I know I'd need one less vote than usual to quick hammer town. This day phase would've been really easy to win tbh.

Also you never really questioned why I voted you out of the three in my PoE, why is that?

[Roden]

You think scum set themselves up to fight two nights in a row and won both times? Why does Faerie set themself up against Lich even though they were mis-elim bait?

I don't really have a strong reason to town read Flea but I trust all of the earlier town reads that were made previous days.

What makes Galron town?

No, I think scum did that probably one of the times. Flea is the most likely though. If you find speculating around the fights to be productive I am very slightly concerned that Flea's fight was against Firebringer who declared intent to basically job the fight by picking an obscure anime character, while Flea's pick is a comedic approach that would generally beat any cool and op anime character you could think of when it comes to the vote

The last game I played with Galron, Galron looked very similar.

I agree that FB did basically claim they'd be an easy win, but that feels a little too obvious. This does give me pause to reconsider though.

This feels similar to Galron's scum game actually. Scum!Galron cares about his image and actively tries to look townie, and will go out of his way to associate with loud town voices. Town!Galron will usually just do his own thing and doesn't really care about how he looks. I've also noticed that as town that he'll try to use meta to read me, but he isn't really doing that here.

If you want to speculate around the fights properly then note that if either one of Faerie or Flea is scum then Galron surely is not due to voting against their fighters

I'm going to stick my neck out and townlock Faerie here. I don't think it's possible for them to be scum since they went up against Lich. It's technically possible it was a gambit but I don't believe it was.

If Flea is scum then the people who voted for fae's fighter still make up the rest of my PoE, AKA Dwlee and NM.

I think we're guaranteed one scum between Flea and Galron, they're not SvS or TvT.

[Roden]

Fighter A: Natsuki Subaru in the Ayamatsu IF Timeline was submitted by Firebringer.
Fighter B: Incorporeal voices whispering dad jokes endlessly was submitted by Flea the Magician.

A: Galron, jjh927, Firebringer
B: TemporalLich, Dwlee99, Not_Mafia, Roden, Radical Rat, Flea the Magician, Faerie Mages

"What do you call a deer with no eyes? No idear."
"Why aren't previous generations of ants called antcestors?"
"Did you know that the person who invented the Merry-Go-Round and the person who invented the Ferris Wheel never actually met each other? They just travelled in different circles."
"What do we want?
Time travel.
When do we want it?
That’s irrelevant."

You know what? Fuck this. I'm out. Natsuki Subaru has given up on the fight, taking Firebringer with him. Firebringer was:

TOWN

Roden... you know there's only two people alive that didn't vote for Flea's fighter?

Yeah, I just looked at it. Am I missing something?

[Roden]

"The people that voted for flea's fighter make up my poe"

but

That's like worthless idk

I mean, if Flea is scum then that's true. JJH is locktown regardless, but Galron is not scum if Flea is scum, and vice versa.

My PoE today was already Galron/you/NM. If Galron is wrong and Flea is actually scum, that doesn't clear you or NM. Faerie and JJH are town, and I'm not claiming scum. Like there isn't much else to it tbh.

[Roden]

If we'd voted there in the last day phase we'd have had more insurance as well because as I kept fucking saying it was optimal to lim in those who have already fought

Would have been massively >50% odds of winning whereas now I'd say we're well under that

Might've been tempted if anyone took this game seriously enough to defend themselves when they were run up tbh. But between the quick hammers and the OMGUS, nobody was really playing. And if scum were in the fighters like you said then you never were going to get votes to dig through there.

Thing is that we probably would've voted Flea yesterday if I listened to you, who you now believe to be town, and we'd be stuck in an even worse ELo today if fae did flip green. I really don't see how our chances would be higher today unless both Flea and Faerie are scum, but I have a hard time believing either are tbh.

[Roden]

Fighter A: Batman with six months prep time was submitted by jjh927.
Fighter B: A bear made of metal. was submitted by a disinterested party on behalf of PookyTheMagicalBear, who failed to submit a fighter on time.

A: Faerie Mages, Radical Rat, Not_Mafia, Roden, jjh927, Flea the Magician, Temporal Lich, Enchant
B: Dwlee99, PookytheMagicalBear, Firebringer,

The bear made of metal lies cold and dead, as does Pooky, it's master. Pooky was:

TOWN

Fighter A: Natsuki Subaru in the Ayamatsu IF Timeline was submitted by Firebringer.
Fighter B: Incorporeal voices whispering dad jokes endlessly was submitted by Flea the Magician.

A: Galron, jjh927, Firebringer
B: TemporalLich, Dwlee99, Not_Mafia, Roden, Radical Rat, Flea the Magician, Faerie Mages

"What do you call a deer with no eyes? No idear."
"Why aren't previous generations of ants called antcestors?"
"Did you know that the person who invented the Merry-Go-Round and the person who invented the Ferris Wheel never actually met each other? They just travelled in different circles."
"What do we want?
Time travel.
When do we want it?
That’s irrelevant."

You know what? Fuck this. I'm out. Natsuki Subaru has given up on the fight, taking Firebringer with him. Firebringer was:

TOWN

Fighter A: Isabelle from Animal Crossing with Doom Guy was submitted by Faerie Mages.
Fighter B: Supreme Calamitas was submitted by TemporalLich.

A: jjh927, Dwlee99, Not_Mafia, Roden, Flea the Magician, Faerie Mages
B: TemporalLich, Galron

I'd prepared a longwinded commentary of the epic battle, but unfortunately wasn't able to provide it due to a lack of oxygen. Supreme Calamitas suffered a supreme calamity, taking TemporalLich along for the ride. TemporalLich was:

TOWN

Fighter A: Giant frog with magic and opposable thumbs was submitted by Dwlee99.
Fighter B: Whitney's Miltank: Stomp, Attract, Milk Drink, Rollout was submitted by Not_Mafia.

A: Dwlee99, Flea the Magician, jjh927
B: Roden, Faerie Mages

Not_Mafia, so assured of the superiority of Miltanks everywhere, didn't manage to submit a vote before he was mercilessly crushed under the magical might of frogs everywhere. He was:

TOWN

Roden/Faerie have voted together every time

Dwlee I'm pretty sure you know by now that it isn't in my scum range to openly buddy up with my partner. I also don't set up my scum buddy against Lich ever, I was the only one town reading that slot and they were pretty obviously going to get mis-elim'd if they had survived their fight. If anything, it would've been optimal for me to bus Faerie there since nobody expects scum to NK themselves.

This is also the reason I find it hard to believe Faerie could be scum. Fighting Lich makes zero sense for scum to do unless they

really

believed I could stop their mis-elim.

[Roden]

Ah, right, you're having a hard time believing either of them are scum but the only other players are me, you, and dwlee, and there are 2 scum

Yes, I know, that's the problem here. I have to seriously think over the possibility of scum trying to NK themselves to save town from getting mis-elim'd.

Why is NK speculation the only reason you TR faerie mages

Because almost no one took this game seriously and there is very little content to work with.

[Roden]

I am pretty confident we're limming scum!Faerie today. If you are somehow town, I request that you throw the fight that you're going to have in the night in the interest of removing yourself from the game without a town loss.

No? The fighting mechanic is the only reason I even joined this game. I'm not gonna wait all game to have my turn at the fun gimmick just to get told to throw lol. It would also go against the spirit of the game, and everyone's been preaching how we shouldn't do that. If you think I'm scum then just vote me.

Tbh I'm surprised Dwlee hasn't voted yet.

[Roden]

JJH can you explain why scum!Faerie puts tries to NK themself to give a mis-elim target town cred?

[Roden]

If you think scum would coordinate their votes in any way at all then look for strange votes

like, idk, people voting for the clearly Not Mafia option when they say they scumread Not Mafia

Dwlee and NM were both in my PoE.

[Roden]

Mage: UNVOTE: in case we were wrong.

There hasn't been a quick hammer on you. Mechanically, you or JJH have to be scum here.

[Roden]

I'd actually much rather flip roden then either faerie or jjh today I think?

Bad idea for multiple reasons. Flipping me is an auto loss for town, and if you think I'm scum then you're better off flipping my buddy and then trying to kill me in the fight tonight since I'm guaranteed to fight.

Why are you against flipping one of JJH or Faerie?

[Roden]

Well, we've just ruled out a Flea/Dwlee scumteam so that's very cool

Any reason I couldn't be scum with either of them?

[Roden]

Dwlee if you think I'm scum then vote me.

[Roden]

Oh, and to reiterate for you, Roden-

Throwing the fight is absolutely not against the spirit of the game. There's no obligation to pick the strongest thing you can think of, or even something that you think could win. I am not telling you what to pick. Rather, from a perspective of the game of mafia, if you think your death would be beneficial to town then you should try to lose the fight. I am telling you, objectively, your

death is beneficial to town regardless of your alignment.

Please go to whatever lengths you can to ensure you die tonight.

If you are town, and you win the fight, we will literally lose the game as a result.

Don't see how we lose. If we elim scum today and it does turn out to be Faerie, I'm likely fighting you tonight if you're town. If I win the fight, you can't tunnel me in ELo, and instead I'm going into ELo with Flea at the very least, who doesn't scum read me. Worst case scenario, ELo is Flea/Dwlee/me and Dwlee is town and death tunnels me, and scum!Flea just quick hammers once Dwlee votes.

Basically we only lose if town plays impulsively, which I don't expect anyone here to do.

[Roden]

There are loads of reasons that scum could choose to put someone in a fight, and a large number of considerations that totally invalidate your reasoning.

-Wifom. You are townreading someone because they were in a fight with someone, hence you must be able to extrapolate there is value in it for scum. This being said, the only two people who are making the argument here are you and Faerie, which I feel furthers my point that scum would absolutely think they can try to get town points out of a fight.
-Risk management. If scum lose their fight, then it would be dangerous to have someone who would do a lot with being conftown as the winner. TL is kinda a clown.
-TL is kinda a clown. It could have been predicted he would pick some obscure thing that people wouldn't care about.
-There weren't any widely townread players who could have been chosen at that time at all. Scum could have picked anyone.

Problem is that this largely applies to your fight as well. By your logic, you're coasting on winning the first fight. Technically you didn't even commit to voting out NK15, you cased him then backed off and tried to get Flea out instead.

A HAMMMER!

Vote Count 1.3

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone to take vengeance on the filthy cat killers.

Not Known 15 (0 votes til death): PookyTheMagicalBear, Dwlee99, Radical Rat, TemporalLich, Galron, Roden, Not_Mafia
jjh927 (6 votes til death): Not Known 15
Radical Rat (6 votes til death): Galron
Flea The Magician (6 votes til death): jjh927
Not_Mafia (7 votes til death):
Enchant (7 votes til death):
Firebringer (7 votes til death):
PookyTheMagicalBear (7 votes til death):
Galron (7 votes til death):
Roden (7 votes til death):
Dwlee99 (7 votes til death):
TemporalLich (7 votes til death):
Faerie Mages (7 votes til death):

Deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-02 22:00:00).

You know what they say: "Turnabout is fair play." Not Known 15 has been torn apart by hyenas. They were:

Spoiler:

MAFIA

[Roden]

Am I coasting on winning the first fight? Half the time I've felt like I'm the only one playing the game

I mean, you've had zero suspicion thrown at you Day 2 onwards. Also I've definitely been trying to solve since the start so idk what you're talking about there.

Mage: What happened to your Flea SR, jjh?

Looking through FM's iso and I seem to have missed a question

It evaporated. You are lockscum, both in terms of play and now mechanically as you would have been hammered if you were town. I thought it was most likely that only one of you and Flea was scum, but wasn't ruling out a team. However, Roden has all the associatives in the world with you and if town almost certainly would not have been the last person to fight.

Wrong for multiple reasons. I've been wanting to fight for awhile and feel confident that I could win. Additionally, you assume I have associatives and that I can't possibly have just had an incorrect town read. Does my progression on Faerie look fake to you?

Oh, and to reiterate for you, Roden-

Throwing the fight is absolutely not against the spirit of the game. There's no obligation to pick the strongest thing you can think of, or even something that you think could win. I am not telling you what to pick. Rather, from a perspective of the game of mafia, if you think your death would be beneficial to town then you should try to lose the fight. I am telling you, objectively, your

death is beneficial to town regardless of your alignment.

Please go to whatever lengths you can to ensure you die tonight.

If you are town, and you win the fight, we will literally lose the game as a result.

Don't see how we lose. If we elim scum today and it does turn out to be Faerie, I'm likely fighting you tonight if you're town. If I win the fight, you can't tunnel me in ELo, and instead I'm going into ELo with Flea at the very least, who doesn't scum read me. Worst case scenario, ELo is Flea/Dwlee/me and Dwlee is town and death tunnels me, and scum!Flea just quick hammers once Dwlee votes.

Basically we only lose if town plays impulsively, which I don't expect anyone here to do.

I passed over this because I didn't think it was worth responding to given your reluctance, but no, it is

It's not about impulsive play. It's about how you are the CLEAR partner to scum!Faerie. Do you not see how absurdly obvious the associatives are at every level here? This goes beyond a kneejerk reaction; my death will not and absolutely should not mean you avoid getting limmed. If you are alive next day phase, you should be the lim with no questions asked. That's not an impulse play. That's just a correct play based on where we would find ourselves.

Unfortunately for you, you have a scum role PM and so throwing the fight would mean you just lose

If town chooses not to solve in ELo and instant votes me then we kinda deserve to lose. There's literally zero way you can spin town instant voting in ELo as my fault.

[Roden]

I wanna hear from Flea before anything else happens. Still tempted to vote JJH though.

[Roden]

Does my progression on Faerie look fake to you?

Yes

Name two reasons why you think Faerie is town

Explain why it's fake.

I already have.

[Roden]

Fighter A: Batman with six months prep time was submitted by jjh927.
Fighter B: A bear made of metal. was submitted by a disinterested party on behalf of PookyTheMagicalBear, who failed to submit a fighter on time.

A: Faerie Mages, Radical Rat, Not_Mafia, Roden, jjh927, Flea the Magician, Temporal Lich, Enchant
B: Dwlee99, PookytheMagicalBear, Firebringer,

The bear made of metal lies cold and dead, as does Pooky, it's master. Pooky was:

TOWN

Fighter A: Natsuki Subaru in the Ayamatsu IF Timeline was submitted by Firebringer.
Fighter B: Incorporeal voices whispering dad jokes endlessly was submitted by Flea the Magician.

A: Galron, jjh927, Firebringer
B: TemporalLich, Dwlee99, Not_Mafia, Roden, Radical Rat, Flea the Magician, Faerie Mages

"What do you call a deer with no eyes? No idear."
"Why aren't previous generations of ants called antcestors?"
"Did you know that the person who invented the Merry-Go-Round and the person who invented the Ferris Wheel never actually met each other? They just travelled in different circles."
"What do we want?
Time travel.
When do we want it?
That’s irrelevant."

You know what? Fuck this. I'm out. Natsuki Subaru has given up on the fight, taking Firebringer with him. Firebringer was:

TOWN

Fighter A: Isabelle from Animal Crossing with Doom Guy was submitted by Faerie Mages.
Fighter B: Supreme Calamitas was submitted by TemporalLich.

A: jjh927, Dwlee99, Not_Mafia, Roden, Flea the Magician, Faerie Mages
B: TemporalLich, Galron

I'd prepared a longwinded commentary of the epic battle, but unfortunately wasn't able to provide it due to a lack of oxygen. Supreme Calamitas suffered a supreme calamity, taking TemporalLich along for the ride. TemporalLich was:

TOWN

Fighter A: Giant frog with magic and opposable thumbs was submitted by Dwlee99.
Fighter B: Whitney's Miltank: Stomp, Attract, Milk Drink, Rollout was submitted by Not_Mafia.

A: Dwlee99, Flea the Magician, jjh927
B: Roden, Faerie Mages

Not_Mafia, so assured of the superiority of Miltanks everywhere, didn't manage to submit a vote before he was mercilessly crushed under the magical might of frogs everywhere. He was:

TOWN

Roden/Faerie have voted together every time

Dwlee I'm pretty sure you know by now that it isn't in my scum range to openly buddy up with my partner. I also don't set up my scum buddy against Lich ever, I was the only one town reading that slot and they were pretty obviously going to get mis-elim'd if they had survived their fight. If anything, it would've been optimal for me to bus Faerie there since nobody expects scum to NK themselves.

This is also the reason I find it hard to believe Faerie could be scum. Fighting Lich makes zero sense for scum to do unless they

really

believed I could stop their mis-elim.

Would still like for Dwlee to respond to this.

[Roden]

I disagree with your self meta and it's kinda irrelevant now that it's confirmed for me that faerie is scum

It isn't a self meta. But if you disagree then you're free to show examples of me open wolfing and hard defending my scum team.

[Roden]

It's actually simpler than that

From your POV I would have to be scum with Dwlee

Was gonna say this but yeah, Flea has to either think you and Dwlee are the team or me and Faerie are the team. There aren't really any other options. Unless they're getting bussed I guess.

[Roden]

I actually don't think there's anyone that can't make the same argument you did about not putting TL up, for instance.

This is factually untrue. I was the only one openly town reading Lich, I had the least to gain from putting them up and then voting for them to lose the fight. They would've been both pocketed and a mis-elim option if I were scum and they were still alive in ELo. If I'm scum, the best option is to put them up against NM since they'd have the best chance to survive vs literally anyone else.

[Roden]

Dude I literally don't care if you're scum or not today

Do you think JJH and I are a team or not

Idk. One of you could be bussing.

Dude I literally don't care if you're scum or not today

Do you think JJH and I are a team or not

I disagree with your self meta and it's kinda irrelevant now that it's confirmed for me that faerie is scum

It isn't a self meta. But if you disagree then you're free to show examples of me open wolfing and hard defending my scum team.

How is out of anyone's scum range to just... Do things with their partner and townread them. It's like the MathBlade newbie method to play scum

That's not what I'm being accused of though? For me to be scum with Faerie I'd have to be hard defending my partner, intentionally killing my pocket right before ELo, and refuse to bus in ELo even though Faerie has been looking like the pretty clear elim all of today. Like that just doesn't make any sense

[Roden]

Margot, Val, you're most likely both town and this back and forth is just gonna make a great cover for scum to hide in. Can you two please call a truce for now so we can figure out what the fuck is going on with Cook in

this

game, not whatever her intentions were in a scum PT in a completely different game from a month ago?

PE: Thank you.

And here is you trying to frame your buddy as being in a TvT...

Saying my scum buddy is probably town on Day 1 in the Newbie queue is not even close to what I'm being accused of today lmao.

I actually don't think there's anyone that can't make the same argument you did about not putting TL up, for instance.

This is factually untrue. I was the only one openly town reading Lich, I had the least to gain from putting them up and then voting for them to lose the fight. They would've been both pocketed and a mis-elim option if I were scum and they were still alive in ELo. If I'm scum, the best option is to put them up against NM since they'd have the best chance to survive vs literally anyone else.

I just don't find it convincing sorry

Then you're most likely scum tbh.

[Roden]

Do you actually think you couldn't play a scum game where you defend your partner and vote with them?

Like how am I supposed to find that even remotely convincing...

You keep simplifying my actions. : /

Why do you believe I NK my pocket and have them fight my scum buddy?

And I just got out of a game where koba was like "oh I can't be scum cause why would I night kill someone that townread me" and "how could I be scum when I made this post hard defending the flipped scum"

And then Datisi actually bought that hard defending their partner was town-indicative and voted me to lose in ELO lol

OOF

Datisi has real bad luck with Koba in ELo. Kinda evil to do that to him again after Mini 2239.

Addressing the point though, I'm not Koba. Koba is gutsy and can make convincing plays like that, I'm not. I can't really say I'd never do that since it might be considered a trust tell, but yeah I'd at least play it differently.

I do think you're town telling with this post though. I think you're trying too hard to make me fit in the scum team, but tonally you've been pretty town. How much do you trust JJH?

[Roden]

My only concern at this point is that nobody seems to be considering a Faerie/Flea scum team even though they've been vouching for each other all game.

[Roden]

Asking town to self kill =/= scum casing Flea.

[Roden]

Considering something doesn't mean you believe it

You certainly don't

You've expressed trouble believing either of them could be scum for ages and now you're worried people aren't thinking they could both be scum?

Predictable and survivalistic because you want to have a chance at winning in the next day phase

So let's say Faerie is scum and you win the fight against me and I flip town. ELo is you/Dwlee/Flea. Do you just instant vote Flea then?

[Roden]

I'm pretty obviously town but alright.

VOTE: Faerie

[Roden]

I actually planned to throw the fight the entire time until you kept trying to force me to.

[Roden]

Tbh I just wanted to see who'd town tell if I said a bunch of dumb shit lol. Faerie is just like "yeah that's town" and Flea is dragging faer feet to have any kind of opinion and instead just waiting to see if I'll actually follow through on voting you. You and Dwlee showed exasperation and are actually trying to solve so I'm fine with an ELo without me now.

[Roden]

Faerie being scum really does go against my expectations though because that fight match up seemed too anti-scum to come from scum. Especially since I'm basically the only one who bought it anyway.

[Roden]

GG, thanks for the game Jingle.

Faerie legitimately did get me with the fight against Lich, I didn't think scum would do that tbh. But in hindsight, it makes a little more sense if scum wanted to keep me around as a pocket but needed to remove one of my hard town reads. Also assuming JJH was correct earlier and that Faerie thought they just had a good chance of beating Lich in a fight. I just wish I committed to keeping Flea in my PoE.

[Roden]

Oh also good job voting correctly in 5p Roden. I didn't exactly do a good job being convincing when my solve had you in it

Tbh you had a good reason to suspect me. I was just nervous that Faerie might've been getting bussed at first, but you did actually town tell a lot and the Koba anecdote sealed it for me.