Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[MalcolmTucker]

I've been wary to push an inactive wagon for D2, but then I suppose Galron was a fairly active slot before they replaced in, and there's maybe stuff to be learned from eliminating it? I don't know, I've been hesitant to go for a slot that's been pushed for lazy reasons but Skitter was being pushed before they dropped out and Galron hasn't helped their cause...and replace-ins have significantly narrowed down the field. I'm wary of hammering/pre-hammering but if there's a consensus here I'll go for it ahead of VP this turn I reckon.

[MalcolmTucker]

I am *staunchly opposed* to the wagon

What do you prefer here though? You've said yourself that you were starting to doubt I was mafia. You've struggled to state exactly why you are opposed to me. Several of the players who were on my wagon only went on it because they weren't keen on the other alternative, that's not a good reason for eliminating someone. I'm all ears for an alternative but feels like we're running out here.

[MalcolmTucker]

UNVOTE:

Weren't you especially keen on this wagon a short while ago?

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: malcom

We should yeet somebody and call it a day. Not sure what we are waiting for here.

Were you not confident on the Galron wagon? Seems to be doing alright and you were more confident on it. I'd be happy to back it tomorrow if we have a consensus, don't want to accidentally either hammer or allow someone else to do so while we remain a bit uncertain but aware we don't have too long left.

[MalcolmTucker]

Were you not confident on the Galron wagon?

Upon further reflection, we should just stick to what we have today.

A misyeet of me isn't great, but better now than on D5, and my flip will be instructive. I think you should vote me and we will let the chips fall where they may.

This uncertainty from you feels townie though which is where my reluctance comes in. But you could just be playing it well. I'll have a think for the morning (if we're all still here and nobody has been hammered).

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeet's posts do not look good on the previous page.

Anyhow, have to make a call somehow:

VOTE: Galron

[MalcolmTucker]

april, what would you say the wagon on galron means? if you think it's yucky, does that mean you think galron is likely town? is scum taking action? why, and who?

and if galron flipped maf what would that tell you?

Galron was a direct response to Malcolm wagon starting up, and it had momentum because Math mason is coming from a warped perspective due to being conf town, so it had fuel from a mason.

If Galron flipped Mafia, there's probably scum sheeping me, even if Malcolm/Galron is scum, it could be them feeding another scum, but it would likely lower malcolm a little for me, not a lot, but definitely some.

Lmao I started the Galron wagon. And my perspective isn’t warped because mason lmao. If anything it’s clearer due to having been vibing with someone else rather than solitary.

Like what?

Yep this is a really key point here - Galron's wagon wasn't started as a direct response to my wagon, it was started due to the general frustration with both the wagons on me and VP and the sense that the game had stalled and was in a position potentially suited to mafia. April is acting as if I was on the verge of elimination when people started voting Galron which is just fundamentally untrue.

Yeet/April's perspective here - if they are somehow both town, which seems unlikely - is incredibly frustrating because they have had all of D2 to push viable wagons which suit the town but they have instead directed all of their attention onto me despite the fact that they just ultimately don't have much of a case here. Yeet's arguments a couple of pages back are "why is Malcolm townie?" but they fail to actually mount a proper mafia case against that. Why is anyone beyond Math townie here? Having a vibe on someone is fine, it's not a particularly viable reason for elimination.

Even when votes against me have been at their peak there have generally been at least a couple of players on there acknowledging they don't even suspect me that much but view me as the better alternative to VP/Galron. It's not a strong day two wagon at all and the frustration from April/Yeet feels unearned given they have had plenty of time to make a strong case, or evaluate their views and decide whether it's maybe best listening to other players who TR me here.

[MalcolmTucker]

I’d be completely full of it if I said I was 100% on Galron being town but like I’m very confident.

Confident enough to put my own slot on the line.

If Galron does come back town, no reason this can't be confident mafia trying to appear very townie if they know it might benefit them in the long-run.

[MalcolmTucker]

Oh Yeet is probably making obvtown moves right now. Your on the naughty list Save The Dragons for shading Yeet

That’s not obvTown moves Cape

It’s desperation and NAI

Why would scum be desperate unless both Galron/Yeet are w/w? I don't think Yeet has been acting like it tbh.

Besides all this

Yeet has literally been the towniest unconfimred town anyways

, like hands down, no contest

I'm not seeing it at all, I still feel like their hyper-accusatory early style is influencing some players but no reason for me they can't be mafia.

They continue fleeting between really solid absolute reads (eliminate me if I'm wrong) and not really having any reads at all, a solid contrast to their early gameplay when they basically had the game solved in their own eyes on about page eight.

Likewise Yeet has been on me for a while now but still hasn't actually built a case or attempted to do so at all. Feels like probable or at the very least possible mafia who knows they don't have one and doesn't want to get tied up in knots.

[MalcolmTucker]

Wow, some game that in the end.

Can't believe all the D2 stuff was mostly town arguing among ourselves. Galron push was actually reasonable at that point, knew something was weird about the pushes for me and VP.

[MalcolmTucker]

Can't believe tenebros and Yeet basically had things right at the start too. Good recovery early on from Datisi.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah that was a superb game, gutted I was out fairly early on since it was fantastic fun. Cheers for running.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah I think town had plenty of good chances there, just too much suspicion on the wrong people at the wrong times. Two turns largely focused on VP gave mafia a huge amount of breathing room I'd say.

[MalcolmTucker]

Anyone know how regular 15+ player games tend to be? I think they're my favourite, enjoy the chaos of lots going on and trying to figure out everything, even if I'm mostly inevitably wrong.

[MalcolmTucker]

large's also might be pro scum in a way, like in a mini only like 4 or 5 players have to work together whereas in a large that 4 or 5 isn't going to do much and there are many more voices all competing and there's going to be much more swing in the day phase.

I'd agree with this, in a smaller game it can potentially take one silly mafia player error for the game to effectively be over: if you have two scum and one accidentally slips up then one post can give town an almost insurmountable advantage. I suppose on the other hand though town can hypothetically play terribly for three days and still stand an alright chance of coming out on top if they pull it together. I do like the larger setup for all of that though, much as it's chaotic it does feel very skill-based in the end with either side needing to maintain good play to win.