Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Am I expected to be able to meta read players I played with before? Hope not

^

I should mention, I've never played with any of the people I know as scum. I don't think I could give good meta reads either because I don't have the whole picture.

I've never played with scum!furtive or scum!Alianna before, so I'm not sure how accurate I can get on those two from meta, if scum!Alianna projects the same townie charisma as scum we're all screwed.

[Cat.Jpeg]

I think it's too risky to eliminate twice based off day one tells unless someone is really sus.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think it's too risky to eliminate twice based off day one tells unless someone is really sus.

Yeah I'm not against the idea if a solid wagon does form but feels incredibly risky if there's any uncertainty at all. Need to see how it develops.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I agree with cat.jpeg and malcomtucker, unless someone does something super sus we don't want to risk the possibility of having 3 townies dead by day 2.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

That said, the effect elimination is majority not plurality, so it won't go ahead unless there is a "serious wagon"

[Cat.Jpeg]

I tried doing math to see how likely we would lose if we did eliminate twice in a row but I forgot the fact we would get the flip result before we voted again so all my probabilities were wrong and I was sad.

[Cat.Jpeg]

Also all the math was based off us voting out random people but I like to think we can guess at least a bit better than random so it was pointless anyway.

[Cat.Jpeg]

Is RVS still going? I haven't gotten a chance to be a part of it yet so I'm just gonna VOTE: Dunnstral

[MalcolmTucker]

Greeting the game. Unforgiveable.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

My first post was a joke. I also think the greeting tell is is pretty stupid. "Hello All" wouldn't even qualify as an example. It was just a bit of meaningless content I came up with for us to read alignment into later.

Reading back first page, Furtive's clarficiation re making a joke feels a little bit overly defensive to me? I know there was a vote for him afterwards but I feel like just about everyone would have been aware that it was a joke, and the follow-up afterwards feels slightly panicky.

[Radical Rat]

This is our one and only chance at a no lim. Regular eliminations are mandatory

You're right. So do you think we should no eliminate here so we're not suck on evens?

I think we should use both eliminations. Information from flips is worth it, and the fewer living slots the more likely it is we get something useful out of the future PRs.

[Radical Rat]

This also stops mafia from shooting at the informed player twice later with no consequence.

I don't understand what you mean here. The only situation in which they would shoot the same slot twice is if we used Imprison, and they didn't change their minds on the kill the next night. But I don't see what double eliminating today has to do with that.

[MalcolmTucker]

This is our one and only chance at a no lim. Regular eliminations are mandatory

You're right. So do you think we should no eliminate here so we're not suck on evens?

I think we should use both eliminations. Information from flips is worth it, and the fewer living slots the more likely it is we get something useful out of the future PRs.

Only issue there is another botched vote after essentially means end of game, no?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

It looks like RVS is over, so I'll UNVOTE: my page 1 random vote.

[Cat.Jpeg]

This is our one and only chance at a no lim. Regular eliminations are mandatory

You're right. So do you think we should no eliminate here so we're not suck on evens?

I think we should use both eliminations. Information from flips is worth it, and the fewer living slots the more likely it is we get something useful out of the future PRs.

If we double eliminate we will never get to use the good PRs because the game will end night 2 or 3.

[Cat.Jpeg]

With the inform ability, the first vote of the day is what determines who is informed, not a majority. So the mafia could bulletproof one of themselves? (can they) and then vote for themselves as soon as day starts so no one knows the alignment. So if anyone votes quickly or for themselves if we get the inform ability (which I doubt we will anyway) that's very sus.

[Flea The Magician]

Scum have absolutely played this optimally with the D1 kill submission.

If we use this kill, we deny ourselves a lot of information - while it doesnt detract from the number of eliminations we have available to us, the information offset is not worth it nor is the expanded pool as we're sat on evens.

A smaller pool is always better to work with, 1 for 1 gives us that optimal pool.

VOTE: No Kill

[MegAzumarill]

Votecount 1.0.0
"Kill"


furtiveglance (1): RadicalRat
MalcolmTucker (1): furtiveglance
GoldfishFromTheMoon (1) Titus
Dunnstral (1): Cat.jpeg

No Elimination (1) Flea the Magician


Not Voting (4): MalcolmTucker, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Dunnstral, Alianna

With 9 alive it takes 5 to make a decision.
Deadline:(expired on 2022-05-03 13:01:27)

[furtiveglance]

I think even with my limited experience I know that mafia usually aren't voted on day 1. Therefore I think we should No Eliminate on this extra vote we have. Otherwise we might get a town/town vote setup or some other scummy shenanigans.

VOTE: No Kill

[Titus]

Nope. We are eliminating. Eliminations are information. That's a load of hogwash from scum looking to deny information.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[furtiveglance]

Titus you're looking a bit greedy I must say. I guess I'm not the designated Nightkill target....

[Radical Rat]

With the inform ability, the first vote of the day is what determines who is informed, not a majority. So the mafia could bulletproof one of themselves? (can they) and then vote for themselves as soon as day starts so no one knows the alignment. So if anyone votes quickly or for themselves if we get the inform ability (which I doubt we will anyway) that's very sus.

My understanding is that "First vote of the day" does not mean the first individual vote to be cast, but rather the first voting phase. Like what we're doing right now is the first vote of the day, and then the regular elimination is the second.

[Radical Rat]

This is our one and only chance at a no lim. Regular eliminations are mandatory

You're right. So do you think we should no eliminate here so we're not suck on evens?

I think we should use both eliminations. Information from flips is worth it, and the fewer living slots the more likely it is we get something useful out of the future PRs.

If we double eliminate we will never get to use the good PRs because the game will end night 2 or 3.

Ideally it'll end Day 1. Though I know that's unlikely.

Regardless, ALL of the PRs here are "good" PRs. I have my preferences as to which I would like to see in which order, but I'd like to avoid discussing that too much so scum can't work around it. Point is, every single one of them can provide solid information, especially in a narrower pool of players, and double especially if we hit at least one scum today.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm wary about voting D1 given the risks previously discussed but I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to play around with some wagons and see how they develop. My general view is we'll be split on how town/mafia want to approach this...it'll be beneficial for mafia if two townies are eliminated and so they will obviously push in that direction but I don't think they'll go gung-ho either because they look suspect if they get it wrong. Likewise, I can see both town perspectives so I don't think anyone hedging against two eliminations is automatically mafia - could be risky town, albeit a lack of wagons will inherently benefit mafia, if that makes sense.

[furtiveglance]

Let me just say, I am very cautious of anyone peddling the holy grail of 'info'. It's become a buzzword that scum (and town for some reason) love to hold up as the key to town winning the game. The fact is, we aren't robots. Town push town, scum push town, town defend town, scum defend town. So the idea of just voting someone at random for 'info' is inherently stupid and pointless. I'm pretty sure that if we end up double eliminating today two townies will die, and people will use the VCA as a tool to further their own scum agenda/town tunneling anyway. A much better idea is to no eliminate first, then agree on one vote.

[furtiveglance]

Greeting the game. Unforgiveable.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

My first post was a joke. I also think the greeting tell is is pretty stupid. "Hello All" wouldn't even qualify as an example. It was just a bit of meaningless content I came up with for us to read alignment into later.

Reading back first page, Furtive's clarficiation re making a joke feels a little bit overly defensive to me? I know there was a vote for him afterwards but I feel like just about everyone would have been aware that it was a joke, and the follow-up afterwards feels slightly panicky.

Nice try but no. Goldfish's 11 clearly took it seriously and voted me for it. So I clarified. Let me anticipate your response. 'Oh furtiveglance clarifying once again, this is clearly scum on the back foot getting so defensive. Besides, even if he is town, let's get some info'.