UK Eastermeet 2022 Invitational (Game over!)

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote Count

McMenno (2):

Fenchurch, Cogito Ergo Sum

cpol (1):

Postie

Postie (1):

Wenna

Wenna (1):

Nexus

Klick (1):

McMenno

Not voting (4): cpol, Primate, Klick, Porochaz

With 10 players alive, it will take 6 votes to execute.

Activity

Primate

has been prodded.

Time until deadline: (expired on 2022-05-04 13:33:00)

[cpol]

FWIW Postie I also think you are likely town now also. The stubborn instance that I must somehow be scum feels more townie with a certain view of the game stuck in their head, than scum pushing for a miss-execution.

@Menno - you've talked a decent amount about your thought process around the execution of Bella. However, you've not yet acknowledged that your play was also potentially going to get me killed along with it. You even follow up the execution stating that "pretty sure cpol is town anyway". What was your thought process around that at the time?

[cpol]

Here’s my case for sum!CES

#15 – starts the push towards Bella for the role fishing hint
#18 – Starts the potato play conversation
#28 – Continues with the potato play
#43 – Continues muting that the potato play is the right thing to do
#48 – Does help explain what the roles in the game likely do to Bella
#49 – But then still casts doubt on Bella
#71 – Noncommittal view of Fenchurch
#108 – Question to Nexus, not much to interpret here…
#119 – Still potentially pro potato
#134 – Chucks a ‘probably town’ comment towards Myko
#183 – Quickly on the Menno wagon
#187 – Continues on the Menno waggon
#234 – Pushes for the hammer of Menno
#244 – Dodges the question on thoughts of the game / Menno’s potential scum partner.
#267 – Continues putting pressure on Menno
And I will note that they have also not answered my last question on wanting some general feeds.

So, my though process is as follows. At least two of the three confirmed townies were not interested in potatoes (Myko reads as lukewarm I feel and Takuma clearly dead against. I'm not so sure on Bella.). There also seems to have been a general consensus among many other players (albeit not one I necessarily agree with) that talking about potatoes etc is not great for the town. So, despite my own thoughts, the confirmed town majority did not like it I feel, and also the hivemind. However, CES has pushed for this quite a lot, stating his thoughts on the setup of the WereLeg game made it pro town (see post #43). A possible outcome I can see here is that CES knows about the potato giving role (given that I assume it is indeed a scum role), and so pushed for the ‘pro town’ potato donation play to play out the exact scenario we are in now – get a townie to give theirs up, then vendor them a potato at night to cast suspicion.

There has also been a general lack of reads in the game so far, and questions on general reads etc have been dodged. A read of their ISO shows a fair few comments, but nothing that is particularly committal until the push on Menno. Post #244 gives a fair reason behind the continued pressure, but given the hammer that Menno did it would be pretty easy to justify a miss-execution the following day.

Also, Myko was the suspected night kill, and one of CES’s few reads so far was Myko, which could be setting up a bit of distancing. Myko called out the potato scum!CES theory in post #77 as well I see…

VOTE: CES

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I hate cases so much. I'd like to see that I think cases are scummy but that's not even true; they're merely anti-town and I hate them with a burning passion.

So, despite my own thoughts, the confirmed town majority did not like it I feel, and also the hivemind. However, CES has pushed for this quite a lot, stating his thoughts on the setup of the WereLeg game made it pro town (see post #43).

I'm aware that the way the potato game played out left people with a feeling that scum was able to hide behind the potatoes. But it shouldn't be surprising that I, as the person who designed the potato set-up (and consulmaker too for that matter), have thought about the set-up substantially and might have different views. The ability to generate multiple executions is unquestionably a powerful pro-town tool (and a mafia potato vendor adds WIFOM to that but does not inherently take away that power) and that was very much an expected part of the potato set-up. In addition, I know one downside of Consulmaker games is that it can be hard for non-Consuls to get started in the absence of voting (which is why my actual Consulmaker games have featured Tribune elections), so I saw a perfect opportunity to introduce a voting mechanic (i.e. voting for whom to depotato) which would kill both birds with a stone. I, in fact, tried to avoid too much potato discussion by presenting it as a bit of a fait accompli (maybe I should have more fully explained my reasoning right at the start to pre-empt further discussion? I don't think that would've actually worked either).

Edited to remove outdated terminology. Badger incoming - CDB

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This whole exchange feels like basically a distraction. Here's what I find interesting: Menno has now made some more comments about "why" they hammered Bella - do any of their comments actually feel like they explain or illuminate what happened?

[ChannelDelibird]

Activity

Fenchurch

,

Klick

,

Nexus

and

Wenna

have been prodded.

[cpol]

This whole exchange feels like basically a distraction. Here's what I find interesting: Menno has now made some more comments about "why" they hammered Bella - do any of their comments actually feel like they explain or illuminate what happened?

No, they don't. And I hope that you can see from my other questions to Menno that I wasn't enamoured with their responses. I'm still waiting for an answer to my last question about me also being technically included in the execution. Like I said before I like almost all of Menno's comments, but I don't like the execution at all.

[McMenno]

do you really think I was thinking about your potential death

[Fenchurch]

I'm very concerned how multiple people are backing off Menno all at once.

I’m also bothered by people backing off Menno. I still think Menno is 90% likely scum for the quick hammer. The contrition and explanation hasn't changed that for me and only came after people have pushed for it. Overall I think Menno's play is exactly like scum who judged (rightly or wrongly) that that quickhammer would be in their favour and was worth eating an execution for.

Hey so do you see any town potato vendor claims yet

No, but there are a few players who haven't claimed either way, and like CES, I think it is plausible for a town potato vendor not to claim, or for a scum potato vendor to give town-Cpol a potato. My main issue with the Cpol-scum theory is that I still struggle to see why Cpol would be so eager to give his potato away in the first place, knowing it could confirm him as scum? I can come up with theories but none of them seem very plausible.

For me the strongest theory is still that Menno is scum, and I think that is the best execution for Today.

[Nexus]

Prodded.

[Porochaz]

I'm at a wedding this weekend, will be back on monday

[Primate]

I've just been lurking, no real excuse past tuesday. I'm struggling to get back into the game so I'll *just post*. I'm not the potato giver.

Cpol gaining a potato is a mild surprise. Makes me a little suspicious that he was so eager to give away his potato d1. If you're scum and know there's a scum potato vendor seems a neat trick. I don't really get Postie's certainty in the early day about Cpol.

Menno doing the execution was surprising. I think it was a bit shit to not get a claim but it's also a bit to brazen to be something I'd normally call scummy.

The lack of explanation for the hammer either Yesterday or Today seems fairly damning.

Yeah.

Don't agree with Cpol in #199. Postie looks super town.

Vibing with CES a lot today.

Poro is scummy.

[Porochaz]

No I'm not.

[Wenna]

Nomination

Primate has nominated Bellaphant for execution.

McMenno is not obliged to decide immediately on whether to confirm or veto this nomination, but neither Consul may nominate another player until a decision on this nomination has been made.

Potato Count

cpol has passed a potato to Fenchurch.

Here's how many potatoes each player currently holds:

Bellaphant

has

1 potato

.

Cogito Ergo Sum

has

1 potato

.

cpol

has

0 potatoes

.

Fenchurch

has

2 potatoes

.

Klick

has

1 potato

.

McMenno

has

1 potato

.

mykonian

has

1 potato

.

Nexus

has

1 potato

.

Porochaz

has

1 potato

.

Primate

has

1 potato

.

Postie

has

1 potato

.

Takuma

has

1 potato

.

Wenna

has

1 potato

.

The potato rules:

• At the start of Day 2, each living player must eat a potato. Any town-aligned players who are unable to do so (on account of not having a potato in their possession at the time) will immediately die.
  
• At any time during Day 1, any player with 1 or more potatoes may post "
  Pass Potato to [Player Name]
  " on a new line of text. This will transfer 1 potato to the chosen player.
  
• No player may hold more than 2 potatoes at any one time.

Non-Binding Vote Count

Bellaphant (4):

Cogito Ergo Sum, Postie, cpol, mykonian

cpol (3):

Klick, Fenchurch, Nexus

mykonian (2):

Bellaphant, Primate

Nexus (1):

mykonian

Remember that votes have no tangible game effect at the moment; only the Consuls can nominate and execute. This vote count only exists because the mod is a cool pal who's here to help.

Time until deadline: (expired on 2022-04-28 19:00:00).

Although I'm feeling mixed about Postie/Fenchurch and Menno/CES, I'm inclined to vote cpol just so I don't have to read any more about potatoes.

[ChannelDelibird]

Activity

Postie

has been prodded.

[Postie]

Ah crap, I need to set an alarm on my phone for this. Not used to prods this strict.
Catching up / re-reading.

[ChannelDelibird]

I probably should have relaxed the 'three strikes' rule a little bit for this game; I just copied my old ruleset without thinking too much about whether that particular rule should be different for this game. I'm open to amending it to just 'replace if prods aren't answered' if the playerlist at large is comfortable with that.

[Klick]

I'm starting from scratch on my reads and going through from the start. My main thoughts up to page 4 are that Menno feels rather town in their D1 posting that isn't hammering Bella, and Primate feels comfortable in his contributions in a way that makes me think he's town as well.

[Nexus]

Mafia is hard.

[Klick]

Wait

??????????

VOTE: cpol

There are a few things that Postie does D1 that make me think they're likely town, but this switch in particular from going with the Menno wagon to quickly reconsidering about Chris still being alive make me put Postie solidly in the town pile

[Klick]

I don't think Poro or CES are particularly town, I think they're currently two rather high odds of hitting scum if we voted in there

Poro in particular it feels like in 173 he gives a few thoughts, but ultimately is content with the Menno wagon that's forming and the status quo generally - and if I follow my gut and say that Menno is town, Poro's play feels a lot more like scum fine with letting the Menno vote just slide through

[Klick]

Vote Count

McMenno (5):

Fenchurch, Klick, Porochaz, Cogito Ergo Sum, McMenno

cpol (1):

Postie

Postie (1):

Wenna

Not voting (3): cpol, Nexus, Primate

With 10 players alive, it will take 6 votes to execute.

Time until deadline: (expired on 2022-05-04 13:33:00)

PSA: How to use vote tags

[vote']Example[/vote'] (removing the apostrophes)

Oh that's a fun VC. Yeah scum are behind the Menno vote and there isn't a counterwagon because Menno's town and scum are exactly where they want to be.

[Nexus]

I'd like to get CES I think. Just to see.

vote CES

[Klick]

And Chris' thoughts around Menno feel genuine as well - willing to hammer Menno, then getting cold feet about it and starting to buy into Menno being town.

So right now my scum suspects are Poro and CES, with other potential scum being somewhere in Fenchurch/Nexus/maybe Wenna? Probably in about that order.

[Klick]

VOTE: CES