UK Eastermeet 2022 Invitational (Game over!)

[Postie]

[snip]

Okay admittedly that's a very towny answer
Hmmm
Relatedly, I think the my main hangup right now (asides from you having been given a potato) is that when you do give long and detailed answers, they seem to come at very opportune moments
Don't want to elaborate any further than that and tell you how you should play to convince me you're town because uhhh yeah

Menno is a really poor vote, there's little substantiating it other than 'the quickhammer wasn't good'

And the immediate reaction today.

Is there more substantiating the CES vote? Tried reading through your reasoning and can't really follow it, and the parts I can follow I disagree with. Can you bullet point me your strongest reasons? I feel like the reasons to scumread Menno might not be numerous, but they are very strong, and I can't say the same for CES right now so it feels like a shot in the dark to me.

[McMenno]

good luck cpol o7

[cpol]

lol.

Rest in peace, friend!

VOTE: McMenno

[McMenno]

I'm gonna go out my own way

VOTE: McMenno

[ChannelDelibird]

End of Day 2

An execution has been achieved.

McMenno (6):

Fenchurch, Cogito Ergo Sum, Postie, Primate, cpol, McMenno

Cogito Ergo Sum (2):

Nexus, Klick

Postie (1):

Wenna

Not voting (1): Porochaz

McMenno,

The Karaoke That Never Happened, Vanilla Townie

, has been executed on Day 2.

Start of Night 2

You have a deadline of 72 hours for any choices that need to be made during the night. Actions submitted after this deadline will not be counted. I will end the Night early after at least 48 hours have passed if I have received all necessary decisions from players.

Time until deadline: (expired on 2022-05-06 19:25:00)

[ChannelDelibird]

I have all player decisions and at least 48 hours have passed, so let's get on with it.

Dawn of Day 3

Klick,

Making Things Out of Cheese, Town Inventor

, died during Night 2.

The Codenames board remains in place.

Unless you've been told otherwise by PM, you can't interact with this right now.

Six candles are burning.

One has gone out overnight.

Unless you've been told otherwise by PM, you can't interact with this right now.

There are now 8 players alive, so it'll take 5 votes to execute someone. You have 10 days.

Time until deadline: (expired on 2022-05-16 09:00:00)

[Nexus]

vote ces

[Postie]

@cpol

- Why did you hammer without intent, given Poro had expressed they were still catching up?

[Fenchurch]

Well, that's a shame.

I didn't find Klick especially town so that's helpful, but it's a shame to lose our cheese maker.

Kinda stumped now. Everyone who was on that wagon has done things that I find town... CES' thoughts around Menno which matched mine; Postie's reactions and questions to Cpol; Primate's gutsy driving activity at the start of D1; Cpol's explanation of his thought process around giving the potato away.

Wenna and Nexus have both done very little that makes them seem like town. Oh and Poro too. But I don't know whether it's likely that both scum stayed off that wagon.

Actually my gut scum read now is Nexus. If the night kill think that Klick looked the most town then they probably think that CES looks the most scummy.

VOTE: Nexus

[cpol]

@cpol

- Why did you hammer without intent, given Poro had expressed they were still catching up?

Unfortunately, this is going to sound like a tall story, but I had just typed up a post stating that I didn't want the day to end without an execution, and that Menno dying at least gave us some information. I was going to vote for them, as I didn't trust the people that weren't voting at the time (and could run down the clock), and time was running out. When I pressed submit this was then shown:

good luck cpol o7

I wrongly assumed at this point that Menno was actually scum, and this was some kind of play to implicate me or something. I thought it was a final throw of the dice to cause confusion, especially as I had been one of Menno’s staunchest defenders. Hence my “lol.” I just decided to vote and then play out whatever came the next day, rather than try and type some long justification. My previous message would have sounded very disingenuous following Menno’s post. However, I now assume it was Menno saying that they were agreeing with me, and a general sigh of frustration to everyone else who has been slow playing and not offering much up to actually try and get scum.

For Poro, I had no faith in that they would be catching up on the game.

Need to think about what this actually means now in terms of scum reads.

[Postie]

If the night kill think that Klick looked the most town then they probably think that CES looks the most scummy.

Gonna have to walk me through that one
And why it doesn't lead you to a CES scumread

[Nexus]

They’re partners.

[cpol]

That's certainly believable. Fenchurch's play around the start of D2 looks pretty suspicious now that the Menno execution has happened. The certainty around how things played out does look like scum who have come up with a narrative they want to push.

Stating that you think Klick didn't look town is also kinda crazy now. Especially given how yesterday played out. I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion at the start of today.

[Fenchurch]

And why it doesn't lead you to a CES scumread

I don't have a CES scumread simply because I agreed with all his thoughts and approach on Menno. I haven't seen any explanation for what makes him scummy apart from him gunning for Menno, which I was doing to.

And I'm sorry to have been wrong there but based on my experiences playing forum mafia to date I expected Menno to have a high chance of flipping scum.

Sure, if you think CES might be scum then the Klick-kill fits that. I don't think CES is likely scum so I'm looking for a player who I do find scummy and who fits the kill, and I end up on Nexus.

[Fenchurch]

Stating that you think Klick didn't look town is also kinda crazy now. Especially given how yesterday played out. I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion at the start of today.

I don't see being correct the same as being town. To me it was perfectly reasonable to find Menno scummy, because I

did

. If anything, scum having full knowledge of the game means that they can be awkward about getting on the obvious wagon when they know it's really town.

Not saying that's necessarily the case either; scum could be on or off the wagon. To me the only way of figuring them out is whether their approach to it made sense and seemed 'real'.

Nexus has provided almost no reasoning for any of his real all game and that's why he's my current vote.

[cpol]

That's not quite what I am saying.

Given that Menno flipped town, the chances of Klick being scum were super low. It's not helpful TODAY that Klick is dead, and it shouldn't have narrowed down your choices any further this day. The fact you previously though they were scummy is fine. Saying that you still would have now is what doesn't make sense.

[Fenchurch]

Given that Menno flipped town, the chances of Klick being scum were super low

I actually don't follow that - what made Klick more town to you after Menno flipped scum?

[Wenna]

Wenna is super wishy-washy and reluctant to commit to saying that anyone is more likely scum than anyone else

I was in the process of responding to this when Menno was executed.

I got a few reads earlier in this game, and have stuck to them. Postie/Fenchurch and CES. The cpol/Menno mess has been confusing but I was playing devil's advocate to both. (RE possible baddy vendor, and Menno being "zooted"). Just because I have openly declared that I cannot give concrete evidence does not make me wishy-washy. I have not been flip-flopping or vague, I have been clear, but also honest about the reliability of my feelings - as forum mafia is completely out of my comfort zone. Of course I can't make the same tells as usual, they are 99% body language and tone, 1% words and mechanics. However, I have said on several occasions that certain players do seem more scummy, in no uncertain terms:

"Whatever Menno is, I think even they would admit they've played it poorly on day one. So they could be either baddy or goody. Even though I have more feelings about CES, and also Postie, for whatever stupid reasons, being baddies, I feel like it would solve some mysteries to execute cpol or Menno. But at the same time, isn't that playing into what the baddies want?

So I'm conflicted. I feel like because of the hammer and potato stuff, the baddies may have just been able to sit and chill...? (Poro, Klick, Primate...)? [Note: I meant Nexus here, not Klick, who had been trying to get a potato vendor to speak up].

Saying that - if it's on 5/6 at ~11am tomorrow I will change my vote for an execution. On CES, cpol or Menno. I won't let my indecision stop the town from making a play."

This not wishy-washy, I am just not happy stating things like fact when they are subjective observations, hypotheses, or weak suppositions. I will reword it into statements: I have reads on CES/Postie. There have been strange mechanics RE cpol/Menno but it does not mean they are bad - this could have been created by the baddies to make town kill each other/waste time on it. There have been players that could have been using this confusion/paranoia to their advantage: Poro, Primate, Nexus.

After Menno's execution, Fenchurch said that:

Wenna and Nexus have both done very little that makes them seem like town.

I don't know about Nexus, but I was willing to vote for a player that I did not want to execute (Menno, for reasons quoted above) just to ensure town got a kill.

It is things like this that are making me feel like Fenchurch is bad.

Also still have feelings on Postie, CES and obviously the aforementioned "lurkers" but for entirely different reasons.

I have only really had any bad feelings about anyone all game: Postie, Fenchurch and CES.

[Fenchurch]

I don't know about Nexus, but I was willing to vote for a player that I did not want to execute (Menno, for reasons quoted above) just to ensure town got a kill.

I'm not saying this is nothing, but I'm sure how you are suggesting that I should find you equally town, compared with people who gave more in the way of reasoned deductions, and pushed for an execution to happen in the first place.

[Wenna]

CES, cpol or Menno

This was actually my order of who I would have most liked to kill, to least liked to kill.

[Postie]

I do think CES is more likely to be scum given the Menno flip, but only because Menno would have been an easy execution for scum to jump on and have no reason to counterwagon, and therefore CES wagon is more likely to be full of town. But that doesn't mean town correctly identified scum, just that they're more likely to by virtue of not being scum themselves.

VOTE: CES

@CES

- What's your read on the people scumreading you?

I wrongly assumed at this point that Menno was actually scum, and this was some kind of play to implicate me or something.

Yeah no I thought Menno was doing some kind of WIFOM too before I read the flip

[Wenna]

pushed for an execution to happen

It is difficult to push for an execution to happen when most of your thoughts go against the consensus, and only serve to muddy the water. I should have changed my vote to CES but at the time I was happier voting on Postie or Fenchurch. At the time I thought the more town play was to go with the consensus of the more experienced players. Maybe I should have tried to save Menno given my anti-baddy thoughts on them, but I was not expecting it to happen so suddenly (their own vote).

There have been a few players sat almost silently.

[cpol]

Given that Menno flipped town, the chances of Klick being scum were super low

I actually don't follow that - what made Klick more town to you after Menno flipped scum?

I'll flip that round - why would you not have thought they were?

[Wenna]

VOTE: CES

[Fenchurch]

I'll flip that round - why would you not have thought they were?

Mainly because I thought his reads were weird and he wasn't very forthcoming.

And I already said that I don't see being correct on Menno as a town-tell, because to me the natural town thing to do was to scum-read Menno.

So now will you tell me why you think it made him more obviously town? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested, maybe I'm missing some deduction here.