Micro 1056: Moderators of the Discord Server [game over]

[Faker]

My preference has flipped back around to Dragons->RH9->Dwlee99

What a time

[Faker]

Pocketing one player in SGB. Absolutely the path to victory for scum Faker.

[Faker]

It was, yes.

To make it more clear, "I can see a world where [as mafia] you go to MD and clear me [in an attempt to pocket me and win the 1v1 against someone else] honestly." This is in contrast to the world we're in, where you're obviously not in MD.

[Faker]

I'm taking a bit of a break after Eurybia's Curse because that shit was stressful, but marcistar's struggles here were a good fourth to third of why I had such a strong townread on her in that game.

[Faker]

If I recall correctly, the reason you thought Dragons was town was because my attitude towards him, rather than the actual posts of his.

[Faker]

Maybe you should delve deeper into those reasons if they exist.

I am content to let you lose and have you blame it on others again.

why does everything faker say sound so fucking nasty

like- her back and forth with dragons STINKS
: (( I like dragons this game

This doesn't exclude liking Dragons' posts, but it shows what you found most worth commenting on and persuasive. I think it's likely that you lost track of what you said you found town and only remembered the stance you were pushing.

[Faker]

I also loved this one:

i mean, theres a difference between the games but whatever

Weird, the circumstances of the games explain the differences I saw.

Yet, I didn't scumread her in Eurybia for those differences. I townread her.

[Faker]

RH9, any thoughts on 923 and 925?

[Faker]

I think there's a little further to go in 925 that I did not make more implicit.

If this is true: I know marcistar is town in this game + I notice the differences in Eurybia (which marcistar agrees exist) -> I'd have scumread marcistar in Eurybia for those differences.

Then: I didn't scumread marcistar in Eurybia -> I either didn't notice the differences between the games, or

I instead knew that marcistar isn't town this game

.

Her saying "The games are circumstantially different!" is not the defense she thinks it is.

This isn't 100% airtight and there are other possibilities, but I hope the simplification helps illustrate my point. (ex. There is also no evidence in Eurybia that I based my read on this game at all, as it should be. I also might have noticed marcistar was town in Eurybia despite the differences, then move to exploit them.)

[Faker]

that I did not make more explicit*

[Faker]

I've got a few ideas for candidate meta-tells for RH9 but I'm probably going to wait until tomorrow. Like I said I'm tired after that slog through Eurybia and want a break.

I liked Dwlee99's last explanation about the minigames.

[Faker]

lol @ 933

[Faker]

i still think rh9 is thinking of things backwards,

clearly faker is just egging them on.

I'm really undecided if posts like this, and all the "Faker is buddying you!" posts are +town for RH9 or +scum for RH9.

Similar to how I don't need to convince RH9 I'm town as scum, marcistar doesn't have to either.

[Faker]

My concern is more that she's phoned it in on MD in the hopes of making Dragons look bad and you look good.

Question for the well-rested Faker of tomorrow, though. I find it hard to turn my brain off but I really don't want to go meta-diving you right now to see if I can figure you out that way.

[Faker]

Yeah, we don't want Meuh to actually hammer the minigame.

Scum up 1-0 means that if Meuh votes marcistar, and I don't hammer, I'm clear and we don't actually have to kick me out of the overall game by formally finishing the minigame. The hard part is actually coordinating so that scum can't selfhammer to deny the second clear.

[Faker]

I'm still tired as fuck.

I'll go over each slot again individually today, though my new laptop is coming in at some point today so I've got to set that up.

I'm also probably going to dust off the argument for why I'm town here based off of my and Pooky's Day 1/Day 2, because my only favor to him as scum was trying to slow Luke down from insta-trusting. I completely pulled apart his argument for Luke-scum and hit him with the receipts, then got absolutely tilted out of my fucking mind when Penguin came back and was like "yeah pooky makes sense to me". When it seemed like Penguin had come around, rather than sticking around to continue interfering/do traffic control, I tabbed out thinking I'd let Luke/Penguin talk it over by themselves. The problem was that instead of coming back to a T/S or T/T solve session I came back to a clown fiesta.

[Faker]

We have about 85 hours on deadline and are lucky to get more than 20 words from two of the slots in SGB every 24 hours.

I propose the following: I do all the rereading/meta I feel like if I can manage to pry myself away from FFXII, Meuh makes all the SGB players weigh in at least one more time on MD, she gets whatever she wants from marcistar, we aim to have the game solved with something like 48-72 hours to spare.

Make them put some level of proactivity and urgency into solving their game instead of watching paint dry until they suddenly switch to playing 6 hour blitz after realizing they procrastinated.

[Faker]

I honestly hope this confusion is legitimate, lol

[Faker]

I'm mostly looking to make SGB more urgent/pressing for the players in it. Right now there

might

be a feeling of "Well, we're not up yet they're still solving MD" which is why things have been completely dead on that front.

I'm having a good time with our occasional Q&As RH9 but they're mostly surface level. At some point we do need to apply real pressure to both the town and scum players in SGB to deliver on their game. It is going to be very hard to do any serious engagement later if we're working on <24 hour timescale given that you're on a separate timezone.

[Faker]

I can't. I'm not in the game. It's up to the players in the game to do so. Right now we're having the occasional Q&A, the occasional Dwlee99 drop-in, and the occasional Dragons one liner that is a complete coinflip to try and read.



I can post as scum, don't get me wrong. I'm not someone with a vote in SGB, and I can only do so much trying to solve the game by myself. I'm not even the clear.

[Faker]

I can sit here all day and try and dialogue but Dragons clearly is completely incapable of doing so with me, so it's up to you and Dwlee99 to solve that slot.

I haven't gotten anything I am sure is AI from our conversation and am more hoping that helps on you, too. That's why my only personal recourse right now is to go see if I can dig up some random ass meta-tell that I don't even know exists.

Dwlee99 gives some content/analysis, and with what's on the table right now I'm willing to bet the game on them being town. I think their engagements with Pooky/marci Day 1 were good, and I think their responses today have been fine. I don't feel I have enough information to confidently solve

any

slot in SGB, so I'm willing to Occam's Razor this one and give them a handshake and congratulate them on a clean if not particular exceptional scumgame.

[Faker]

it doesn't make any sense for me to be scum here. shes clearly framed me well and like.. good job!

It doesn't make any sense for marcistar to be scum...yet I did a great job framing her.

Queen, I'm sorry Pooky let you do this.

[Faker]

Anyway I'll be around to do work probably a bit after midnight EST.

[Faker]

I'm through page 5 and am convinced we vote Dwlee99 exactly never.

Why Luke he called out Marci first

its fake distancing bullshit if luke actually BELIEVED that shit he would've gotten his modkit and jumped into SGB to yeet her

This is in relation to the marci instavote, with Dwlee wondering why they get the towncred and Luke doesn't. I would again be pleasantly surprised if this was S/S theater. This is somewhat pedestrian.

59 from Dwlee about wanting Pooky to go in MD is very minor but pretty believable, they have great respect for Pooky's towngame and would probably love to sheep him if given the opportunity.

Silver bullet selling point for me are 83 and 93 from marci in reaction to a point of Dwlee's. They're immediately defensive, then pivot towards the more aggressive. I think there's very good reason to believe this set in particular isn't S/S theater: Having locked in, Dwlee99 was confirmed to be going against her at this point.

[Faker]

Okay, Meuh, this should be very useful for you

vote count 1.03

with 3 possible channels to be assigned to, it takes 2 full channels to end the day. day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-23 12:30:00).

assignments

Sillyposting [3]:

Lukewarm, PookyTheMagicalBear, PenguinPower

[HAMMER]

Mafia Discussion [0]:

Stop Getting Banned [2]:

marcistar, Dwlee99

unassigned [4]:

RH9, Save the Dragons, Faker, Meuh

mod notes

~ highlighting one of the rules here: if the day deadline runs out, the hackers will immediately win.
~ this is a mod note.

highlighting one of the rules here: if the day deadline runs out, the hackers will immediately win.

I'm a bit concerned by this, it's already not possible in this game but this entails configurations such that scum can automatically force a win Day 1. It is actually pretty trivial for them to do so; if town are split into a configuration of exactly 1-1-1 with scum unassigned the scum have already won the game.

Perhaps this was intentional, but in my ruleset that was why I required at least one town player remaining unassigned for this to kick in.

I am the one to flag the potential autoloss here from a scum votesplit. 2 out of 3 of the current SGB players (ie. 2 of the 3 players I can be partnered with) aren't voting. I instantly point out the scum autowin loophole and how to exploit it.

There is a good chance I can with on the spot here with a non-Dwlee99 partner. You wanted MD and I had already encouraged you to go that direction, all we need to do is wait and see what the town player does. Not only do I not do that, I instantly point it out (It was not possible FMPOV because a scumteam could not stop me from hammering SGB, not that it was technically impossible for a team to do so)

This post is only one minute after the vote count, never once did I have to consider that I personally could win this game with it.

Looking back, it seems like it was in the early votecounts as well, but I think it's obvious (quoting that VC specifically, timing) that this was the first time it came to my attention.

[Faker]

I am disinclined to believe that the scum team would move town!marci to 1v1 with faker, simply because scum!faker could 1v1 most people, and I think that they would want her to go up against someone who was not already primed to lose a different minigame.

It would be like trading an win at SGB for a win at MD, but why prioritize giving your hard hitter an easier win, instead of prioritizing another scum player.

Shoutout to my guy Luke in the graveyard. I disagree with this being an easier outright win for me (I think clearing RH9 and letting me try to pocket him goes better, and I think a lot of our dialogue today reinforces how I could accomplish that even as I struggle to read him) but close enough, still not really clear how this helped us win SGB.

If Dwlee99's mafia with me they were targeting marcistar from the start. Why swap marci out? If Dwlee isn't mafia, and neither is marci, then double on "Why the fuck do we swap that?"

[Faker]

Honestly I have several more comments I could make about marcistar/Pooky in these pages, and I'm sure I'll run across more, but I'll try to skip them and stick to stuff with SGB. If you want more on defense/offense specifically in my game, Meuh, let me know.

[Faker]

Right now I'd go on you (RH9), my posts on why I have Dragons-leantown and RH9-scumlean aren't at all related to interactions and are better off collated from ISO.

Also Meuh I lied:

oh yeah page 16 is horrible

its kinda funny but pooky looks so obviously scum from it. i dont think pooky is even trying to legitmately read the game.. he looks like hes just memeing
pooky do u seriously think penguins town rn?

I'm sorry but who on earth looks at the extended dialogue with me/Pooky/Lukewarm,

knowing from her perspective that I am scum

, and walks out of this with "pooky looks so obviously scum haha!"? I'm not talking about the pairing being impossible, though it is. I'm talking about her claim to have looked at that extended three way discussion with conf-Faker scum and thought to herself "Yeah Pooky's obviously scum too!"

[Faker]

I had a vague idea about how frequent you were with nuanced follow-ups to points people raised, taking them one step further for example, as I thought I remembered those happening in Open House. On quick skim, it wasn't very backed-up by your town posts in Holiday Dance, and I found a few scumpost examples in Guardians that could have fit that mold.

I wouldn't bet on the comparative lack here being hardscum and I'd have to go back to the drawing board, looking for something else entirely, to get more confident.

I'm also going to try to finish and finish my current read before I respond to any other questions you have. I'm also probably going to take a break soon so as not to have my eyes glaze over, so just a heads up that you might be waiting awhile. At the end I'll collate where I'm at on each of you/Dragons, and accompanying explanations of any changes that happen.

[Faker]

Page 31 update: This minigame is actually so hard, holy shit

I'm staying put with my current order but there was a moment with marci's posts to RH9 telling him he's getting buddied, and how relaxed her back/forth was with Dwlee99, that had me about to throw Dwle99 back up top

I'm choosing to believe in my early page Dwlee99 read about the dislike+fear of 1v1, right now I'm staying put.

[Faker]

Alright, yeah, this shit is hard.

I wouldn't be a fan of a Dwlee99 vote.

I think RH9 and Dragons is essentially too close to call, while reading I often wanted to say RH9 but fuck this is hard and as I'm typing this

I'm back to shooting at Dragons.

RH9/marci's interactions around the buddying accusations are actually pretty good:

Good idea, actually.
Could you please find. examples of Faker buddying?
I probably missed them all.

670 reads like shes trying to feed you a read a certain way (the explanation after the question makes it that way)
681 same thing, shes trying to pick apart your reads and shoot down any progressive thought process.. but shes trying to do it in a way that won't agitate you. notice in the post how she hasnt said its a bad thought process at all? she just calls it "surprising" which is a sort of buddy buddy way of shooting down a read without making a person angry.
688 not buddying, but its like she isn't stating a suspicion on any of the stop getting banned players in that post; shes replying to you in a non accusatory way, she states somethings "in dwlees favor", she gives a "dragons isnt out of range" but in a half way where she doesnt use it further later on. she isnt hunting.
maybe buddying isnt the right word for these posts, its hard to do this while im tired..
alot of her posts regarding you is just asking questions/pushing your read forward which i view as a form of buddying. <670, 681 fit this> its like shes trying to get in your head and appear helpful and solving, when in reality she isn't putting in the work and she's making you do the brunt of it. she isnt outright doing stuff that will offend and trigger you, but shes doing it like back of the mind sort of thing
690 reads super buddyie imo

I would say that from the posts that you've referenced, Faker is more or less just being assertive.
However, I still don't think that she is trying to directly buddy because I can't help advance her wincon if she's scum.

These are the posts that to me seem unpartnered. I suggested earlier maybe she's doing this intentionally to clear RH9, but I honestly don't think she's thinking this far ahead. I think she's just trying to convince herself she's town and saying whatever random defense she comes up with to whoever is nearby. Still...maybe +town for RH9.

Individually, RH9 also had a great surge of posting on page 29, and part of me still looks at this point of Dwlee99's and goes TRUE. I also buy 899.

But that said I just...don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I'm really worried that the sequence we talked about here should be damning, and I'm a bit worried because the claim that he'd clear me as scum seems like complete bogus.

For Dragons, I liked the pushback on me insisting on D&C's relevance, I thought the explanation about it being more on Dunnstral was plausible, and I liked the spurt of solving and proactivity in bringing up how several points with Dwlee/Pooky seemed unpartnered, and how he contrasted how my interactions with Pooky were on another step when questioned by Dwlee later. These reads all make surface level sense, and some oneliners have their points where I'd guess town if I had to. I don't feel like going back and finding all of these postlinks right now to put here like I did for RH9, though, so sorry if you want to look at them yourself right now.

The unfortunate truth is that all of that is extremely trivial to fake. The bar to clear is Dragons' similarly laconic towngame, and it's on the floor. Clearing it is picking up his foot and raising it two inches. He can give a tonally decent oneliner when he feels like it, he can do something vaguely proactive when he feels like it. I didn't find marcistar's defense of him against my criticism clearing. And fundamentally, while he might have blamed Dunnstral for D&C, I'm still concerned that he let me run wild over this game with basically zero fear that I'd strongarm bad votes through.

Dwlee99 I've typed enough on, I might go into it again later but goddamn.

[Faker]

Page 31 update: This minigame is actually so hard, holy shit

Which one?

Yours, not mine lmao

I doubt I'm going to get around to metaing further, I really don't like to do it unless I have something specific in mind to look for, but we'll see. For now I'm tired, I got my reading I wanted done, that minigame (SGB) is hard as hell, time to go play FFXII

[Faker]

You consider things like this:

it doesn't make any sense for me to be scum here. shes clearly framed me well and like.. good job!

It doesn't make any sense for marcistar to be scum...yet I did a great job framing her.

Queen, I'm sorry Pooky let you do this.

...as Marcisms?

She swaps back and forth almost randomly between "I'm obviously town if you just think about it!" and "Wow Faker has done so well framing me they're so good [and I look so bad as a result]" because she is trying to play both angles at once. They're not real thoughts at all.

[Faker]

I'm also kind of curious if Dragons has any questions for myself and marcistar.

Don't get me wrong-I'm happy to see you giving content in SGB.

...But is it really okay for you to leave me to run unchecked in MD?

This is also still one of the hardest townclaims I will ever make in my life.

This is trying to get you paranoid and more active as town, and trying to make you feel like you are hitting the wrong notes and worried as scum.

Our conversation makes clear we have two very different perspectives on what won me D&C, but I think it should be obvious that if you're letting me steamroll you the same way [imo] twice I gladly take the W.

[Faker]

Alright, well, I have more words here but after 1017 I don't see the point, I'll get back out of your way.

[Faker]

I hope that the shred of pride and righteousness you cling to for hedging your bets in D&C and blaming Dunnstral works the same way in reverse this time, and that you stop and consider that it was completely unjustified and complete garbage.

[Faker]

I can be around to confirm the clear, give me a close heads up and be prepared to unvote instantly if you decide to vote marci.

[Faker]

??????

I'm saying be prepared to unvote so she can't selfhammer, if I'm scum I just hammer, what unvote to catch me is there. I get warned by P-Edits.

[Faker]

Alright, I'm ready. If you're wanting to troll the hell out of me and just hammer me I'd say give substantive reason+ask me about any hangups, but I can't stop you lmao

[Faker]

Clear

[Faker]

Alright, neat-o. Time to take a break.

Thanks for believing in me and not YOLO hammering it

[Faker]

Pooky got me eliminated with the soft mech guilty in Melancholia but I have STILL NOT BEEN MISELIMMED AS TOWN since 2017 and now I get to retire on that number

[Faker]

Alright, 1-1, even stevens, I believed but that was nerve-wracking, will circle back on Dragons later.

[Faker]

Actually it's not like me castigating Dragons is going to get anywhere so

RH9, DWLEE99, DRAGONS COME ON DOWN IT'S YOUR TIME TO SHINE YOUR GAME IS UP AND WE ARE PLAYING FOR THE WIN

[Faker]

meuh good job champ

[Faker]

Based off of my thoughts driving I am sold it is RH9

This is based off of nothing substantive, just my driving with the windows down to my favorite burrito place, then sitting at the table munching on said burrito, then driving home with the windows down again

Thank you for your time. I might catch up later.

[Faker]

I suggested earlier maybe she's doing this intentionally to clear RH9, but I honestly don't think she's thinking this far ahead. I think she's just trying to convince herself she's town and saying whatever random defense she comes up with to whoever is nearby. Still...maybe +town for RH9.

This was a crucial turning point for me in reading into that interaction.

marci's mindset for faking things is just to tell herself "I'm town and this person is mafia!", and work backwards or ignore anything that doesn't fit that. I don't think she places a lot of emphasis on who is/isn't her specific partner when deciding how to interact.

[Faker]

I'm not really sure where you're getting that interpretation. I have a few distinctions I can make but this the explanations I can think of are pretty tedious.

I'm not saying that who she chooses to push and how isn't telling. These are chosen directly off of her wincon.

I am saying that who was in the vicinity as she tried to push marci-town and Faker-scum probably isn't telling, because her mindset when acting the part is just "okay I'm TOWN and faker is SCUM" and try to forget everything else. She's decided who to push above and now just pushes the rest out of mind.

[Faker]

Anyway that was just my slow-thinking, chewing on the game over time conclusion. I'll try to actually get into the nitty gritty soon.

For now I think this quote is very relevant and worth bringing back up. Now that marcistar is confirmed scum, this interaction should be more useful to someone else.

Silver bullet selling points [on Dwlee99 town] for me are 83 and 93 from marci in reaction to a point of Dwlee's. They're immediately defensive, then pivot towards the more aggressive. I think there's very good reason to believe this set in particular isn't S/S theater: Having locked in, Dwlee99 was confirmed to be going against her at this point.

I'd again be pleasantly surprised if this is S/S.

[Faker]

marci, be honest, was it your idea to go in MD or did someone else put you up to this?

Remember, you can't lie, Datisi is watching.

[Faker]

I more had in mind God & a sort of stern religious parental figure but Big Brother government works too

[Faker]

~ this votecount is to make you know i have not abandoned you

man you skipped my high school graduation, my college graduation, my wedding and the only thing i get from you is this text?

fuck you dad

[Faker]

Two things, both related to your (RH9's) experience in Open 840, my run of Guardians.

First, I want to revisit your read of Lukewarm this game:

As for my TR on Luke, it was that switch from jovial to serious. I know Luke's scumgame and he's not the sort to suddenly change from jovial to serious in one phase.

I'm curious as to what experience this is drawing on. Perhaps it's the

switch

that is the key, but your read of Lukewarm (as scum/scum) was:

1032 felt off to me due to his astounding confidence on his reads. Seeing that implosion got moved and how much Lukewarm exhibited a desire to win in 125, it is obvious that Lukewarm is scum. He seems strangely into meta and theory. Examples of this include 29, 32, 34, 78, 101, 324, 484, 554 and 896.

This read was scum/scum, but the observations still apply. Was Luke's confidence in Pooky-scum/voting Penguin early not a redflag for you?

Second, looking again at my run of Guardians, the Wall never had any votes placed in it. Town swept Keep and Gate.

LMAO

SGB is the easiest game for scum to win. It means it's easier if you think you've got a better chance to win against me in MD than marcistar would, which I'm honestly not sure if that's what you're arguing but part of me really hopes you are.

I'd love some RH9 trash talk about how you'd run my ass out of town NO SWEAT

I lost Wall last time as scum.
I think that MD allows for more coordinated pocketing by scum which I think marci is failing at.
But then, I'm Town so most of what I say is hypothetical and based off my experience in Open 840.

Scum obviously lost that overall game, but with the Wall minigame unresolved, why do you personally feel you lost the Wall?

[Faker]

Spoiler: I don't want to spam it with a wall but here it is just for the ISO

I also really question your bit about wanting to be in MD with me as mafia. It looked like you were suggesting you could clear me, and that it would be fun to go against me. That may be, but I think that contradicts some of your approach to Open 840. Here are your thoughts on being in the Wall with a player familiar with you:

I feel worried about numberQ. He knows my towngame.

I think that my "scum slip" on baltar has been mentioned enough that me flipping first probably helps you A Lot.

And me flipping scum could lead to an Implo miselim at the wall too.

The keep flipping first I think is infinitely better for us, even if I lose. Neither of those things work in reverse in our favor.

Cool but numberQ knows my towngame and is likely to get me eliminated at the Wall.

It seems like you're worried about players familiar with you, and while I'm not

actually

exceptional at reading you, I don't think you would have known this prior to my statements this game. I've seen a sizable sample of you between Open House, Holiday Dance, Guardians, etc. I'm probably one of the players you've interacted with the most on the site.

Yet despite that:

RH9/marci makes a good bit of sense, even if not as much as Dragons/marci. I can see RH9 not really wanting to go against me, and clearing me is even more unpalatable. marcistar might think she can tonally manipulate you into a win and Pooky probably encourages her to give it a shot, YOLO.

I would have loved to go against you as scum.
It would be more fun anyways.
I wouldn't have anything to worry.
It's much better letting my scumpartner win in SGB than doing that myself.
It'll be easier.

It was, yes.

To make it more clear, "I can see a world where [as mafia] you go to MD and clear me [in an attempt to pocket me and win the 1v1 against someone else] honestly." This is in contrast to the world we're in, where you're obviously not in MD.

I see.
TBH,

I was going to suggest that in a scum!me world, clearing you in addition to swapping Meuh and marci would be ideal.

You claim you would have played MD out with me, and in fact probably would have cleared me (leaving me the opportunity to hammer you)

---

Next, there are these statements in the scum PT of Open 840:

I probably made you sound like you deliberately swapped implosion and Pavowski in order to fulfil your 'desire' of winning a minigame.

Also, I'm planning to continue my narrative of scum!Lukewarm and confbiased Town!me.

This seems oddly similar to how you followed up on your Day 1 reads at the start of Day 2 this game:

This might sound bizarre but I think that the interactions between Dwlee and marci seem like they are aligned, possibly even scum together.
What does everybody else think?

By the way, the swap reinforced my reads.
I think that Dwlee was distancing from marci during D1 so that when they were apart and marci flipped red, scum could use this flip to make STD misvote.

[Faker]

Okay, with the switch being the key: What was your basis for thinking that was strongly town-indicative?

[Faker]

Aight I'm going to bed for the night, sorry for throwing you on the grill for a minute, will be back late evening tomorrow

[Faker]

TBH

I wish that catboi was here.
He's hardly ever misread town!me before.

In fact, I've misread his alignment more than he has to me.
By the way, sorry for the tangent.

If you are town that is grossly offensive but I will give you a pass.

If you are scum, know that saying this was a mistake and that I will stop at absolutely nothing to bury you after this.

[Faker]

Good god the strength of will it is taking me not to cancel all of my plans tomorrow to go over every single game this motherfucker has ever played

This man just slapped my mother across the face then turned and looked at me like I should townread him for it

[Faker]

Oh my god I was kidding RH9 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Faker]

IT WAS JUST A JOKE BECAUSE OF ME/CATBOI'S RIVALRY

I DON'T ACTUALLY HATE YOU OR TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT

[Faker]

;_;

[Faker]

Man, if you don't want to talk about it (postgame! not while ongoing!) I understand, but you did not actually offend me and I was 100% kidding. I understand if that and my cursing was hurtful, though, and I'm sorry that I made you uncomfortable.

I was kidding that comparing me to catboi (who, as my rival, I frequently jokingly deride and trash talk) was offensive but he's a great player and a great friend. I did not actually take offense to the suggestion he could read you better than I could, I was just joking that the rivalry was added motivation, I do not actually think ill of you, him or that post you made at all.

You are and were a pleasure to play with and I am again very sorry.

[Faker]

Alright, that's the last post I'm going to make on that publicly. I'm sorry again to RH9 and to the rest of the game when they wake up and see it.

I guess we'll see what happens with the replacement.

[Faker]

Okay, sorry, but one more thing:

I loved that post about catboi, not only is it probably true but I thought the comparison was hilarious and I was laughing when I responded to you, I was not actually angry about it or upset at all. It was not grossly offensive or anything of the sort.

That was in reality my single favorite post of the entire game! I loved it!

I loved playing with you this game, you're always eager to dialogue, you are always very patient, and you are always trying your best and trying to improve. Not once was I frustrated with or offended by you or anything you said this game.

I am sorry that I did not communicate that effectively that to you while you were still playing. Anyway, I hope you can forgive me postgame but until then I'll can it.

[Faker]

Oh good god I'm going to bed

If I had just gone when I was supposed to the first time none of this would have happened

[Faker]

I'm probably just going to defer to the players in SGB and see what happens with HEM. I'm still really bummed about last night and how wildly different my intent vs. my impact was, still all my fault. Just sucks since 1080 was literally my favorite post of the entire game.

I don't think RH9's replace-out there was AI FWIW though I'm open to other interpretations. I think it was just very distressing to think he had said something "grossly offensive" to me regardless of alignment. I could still meta him but I really am not convinced it is worth all the effort.

HEM has 100% been cooking up ideas on how to deal with me as scum for awhile, his last attempt didn't completely fail but it was also far from successful. He's been in the lab and he will probably have a harder time dealing with other players than he will with me.

[Faker]

I am literally confirmed town. Just read the game and stop trying to tonally blitz it.

[Faker]

Don't really know how comfortable Dwlee99 will be with being called a guy, as their pronouns are they/them, but I appreciate the takes/substance. Welcome to the game, yo.

I'm about to head out for the evening but I should be back in probably 6/7 hours.

[Faker]

I'm still not sure why this is clearly fake. Meuh and I both keyed in a single exchange between marcistar/Dwlee99 as comparatively unlikely.

There are plenty of other exchanges that are absolutely plausible. For example, Dwlee99 is at one point discussing Pooky joining SGB (Which, while Pooky obviously never actually does it, would be scum autoloss).

I also key in on another sequence of marcistar/Dwlee99, which happens after Dwlee99 jumps into the game with her:

Anyway that was just my slow-thinking, chewing on the game over time conclusion. I'll try to actually get into the nitty gritty soon.

For now I think this quote is very relevant and worth bringing back up. Now that marcistar is confirmed scum, this interaction should be more useful to someone else.

Silver bullet selling points [on Dwlee99 town] for me are 83 and 93 from marci in reaction to a point of Dwlee's. They're immediately defensive, then pivot towards the more aggressive. I think there's very good reason to believe this set in particular isn't S/S theater: Having locked in, Dwlee99 was confirmed to be going against her at this point.

I'd again be pleasantly surprised if this is S/S.

I don't at all think these are all impossible to fake. Comparing them to the resume of the other players this game, though, it's hard to really see this as the best answer or the one that makes the most sense.

[Faker]

We also have about ~27 hours. We can kick me out whenever, but it really is crunch time for SGB.

[Faker]

No. We vote out the exact scum in yourself, Dwlee99, and Dragons or we lose.

The idea that it might be fake or that they might have put in the effort to do a good/clean job isn't personally going to get far with me. It might with others.

I don't get to vote, so my opinion isn't particularly important. For my perspective, though, I prefer an affirmative reason for why Dwlee99 is actively scummy, rather than that they are plausibly scum and playing cleanly/well. I already know that.

[Faker]

You also asked me about Dragons' scum meta. I've never seen him play scum. I know that what I've seen here differs very little from what I saw in D&C, but this isn't saying much. It is trivial to give 3-4 one liners every other day for a week.

[Faker]

I also haven't seen you actually engage with the substantive points at all, despite Meuh going out of her way to link them to you and me bothering to collate them for you again.

It's not clear that you are actually interested in solving the two slots. Right now it looks like you coinflipped which one to push based off of page 1 and don't care to look at any counterarguments.

[Faker]

I would encourage you to actually click the links in the post.

[Faker]

at least StD's scumread is substantiated by the fact that Pooky never mentioned my slot (not sure if this is actually accurate, I've only been reading Std and Dwlee's combined ISO) so I can understand extrapolating that my slot is scum. Iz logical.
Dwlee only said it could be me in #826 after StD has already heavily decided that I'm scum in #815 and there's a lack of sorting STD in Day 2 — i think to avoid derailing StD's choo choo train because he's pretty set on my slot being scum.

Your interpretation of 815 is not correct. It is Dragons hedging his read after stating that he currently believed it to be myself and Dwlee99 in 813.

Dragons then refused to explain this teamread whatsoever despite me asking for it for the next ~30 minutes.

[Faker]

815 from Dragons is actually a really bad post, both at the time and now. It's why I tried to get some sort of explanation from him repeatedly.

It comes off of Meuh starting to buy Dwlee's slot as scum, and she then tries her hand at working backwards to figure out a partner. She comes down a bit on the side of not partnered but scum-Dwlee (ie. +scum for Faker)

Dragons then swoops in, drops that terrible one liner and refuses to provide any justification whatsoever. It's horribly opportunistic play that he hides by doing the same shit as town.

[Faker]

813 from Dragons*

[Faker]

I still think these slots are basically coinflips. I feel bad for not being able to get something more solid on RH9: There are a lot of things I want to find damning about his play, but I frankly don't have the confidence to call it. Dragons has given essentially zero reason to townread him all game other than "told Faker no that one time."

Rough times.

[Faker]

I dunno. Maybe I should have taken the Meuh reasoning as being Dragons' own concurring reasoning, would have been nice if he said that, but instead I got arbitrarily stonewalled and had a great time.

I like that explanation more than the opportunistic one, though.

[Faker]

Yeah, I think that works actually. With that I'm back to leaning RH9/HEM.

Dragons hits most of the simple boxes in interactions with me, perspective on Dunnstral+D&C diagnostic lines up. Doubling down on the swap comment being irrelevant is minor but bold as scum. Progression from Dwlee spewed town to Dwlee+Faker is questionable, see 704. I telegraphed that I was expecting more paranoia but it's not nonsensical or blatantly fake. Not actually engaging with marcistar's posts and just dismissing her as possible LHF with zero effort was also rough, when you have that fear time to hit the ISO instead of using fear as a refuge for being wrong.

In contrast I think RH9's PoE read should in fact be damning. I think he realized that Penguin hadn't posted and that it was impossible and tried to salvage it after that fact. I think that a RH9/marcistar swap 100% makes sense, and I didn't find the buddying comments to her clearing. I think his followup questions this game were often lacking. I

do

think he made the catboi comment with the intent to stir up some guilt or fear of inferiority in me hoping to get me to swap the read. Checking against reality, it's ambiguous whether the claim that catboi is more accurate even holds up: catboi had a very hard time reading RH9 in Holiday Dance, at one point scumread him/grilled him, and left off with RH9 in null. RH9 expressed confidence in catboi's read on him in that game, but that game should have challenged that idea if RH9 remembered it.

I do find this game very hard, though, and I do find it difficult to come down one way or another on the interactions with marcistar (Marci coming to Dragons' defense when I was sharply critical, Marci dialoguing about me buddying RH9)

[Faker]

I take it back. I pulled up marcistar's ISO for 5 seconds and it's Dragons.



Probably going to wake up tomorrow with a different opinion

[Faker]

what can i do to make people see that i'm town

or rather what can i do so that the blame's no longer on me if we lose this by being miselimmed.

I don't think anyone will blame you if you wind up getting voted out.

I do think voting right is a major concern. I haven't really been impressed by your points so far. I get that it's hard to replace-in and contribute immediately. I also have clearly struggled greatly at reaching a decision, I'm fickle and it depends on what I last happened to pull up in front of me.

Simultaneously, I think that the interpretation of 813/815 from Dragons shows clear error, and I still think that you're really quick to dismiss the posts from marci/Dwlee without stopping to think about them slowly and contextually.

[Faker]

Dwlee99, I'm curious about what you think of the marcistar interactions with RH9. My actual concern is that at a certain point she had phoned in the minigame and seemed to be making these half-defenses in the hopes of making him look bad.

Tinfoil? Probably.

[Faker]

I'd also appreciate a deeper explanation of how Dragons went from Dwlee-spewed to Dwlee is scum with Faker, but I doubt I will get one. Chewing more deeply on 704, I don't think it passes a basic smell test. It's opening the floor back up to a Dwlee vote after Dwlee vote keys in on a +town RH9 point (quoted in the linked post).

707 is also questionable coming on the heels of 704. He's seriously saying "well maybe both the interactions I thought were majorly +town and assumed all game were theater". He flips back to RH9 and Dwlee is spewed town land after me/Dwlee99 start going after RH9 in 830.

[Faker]

fine i'll read the game front to back

For your read on Dwlee99 specifically I'd really focus on marci's posts around page 4/5 going more aggressive. I think she's caught off guard initially and later pulls out the mix of guilt trip/aggression to cover both bases in SGB at once. I think contextually that pivot of hers is very, very telling.

[Faker]

Like as of 704 I am steamrolling MD. My posts from 675 to 680 against her are absolutely

brutal

.

My last post is 682, which is the most blatant bait and pressure I've put on him all game:

I'm also kind of curious if Dragons has any questions for myself and marcistar.

Don't get me wrong-I'm happy to see you giving content in SGB.

...But is it really okay for you to leave me to run unchecked in MD?

Suddenly Dragons decides maybe Dwlee99 is just theatering scum after all and oh man yeah what if this steamroll is actually marcistar just being LHF?

[Faker]

Sorry for spamming so much, but it was helpful. I think my angles have sharpened considerably. I especially want to thank HEM, whose emphasis on progressions caused me to really dig deeper into the order of operations with Dragons on Dwlee and RH9.

I hope we get a chance to dialogue tomorrow HEM. If not, though, Dragons should find it a lot easier to post if I'm not around, and hopefully that would be useful. Time to sleep!

[Faker]

Honestly, I think tracking through Dragons' read progression on you/me, against the timing of the minigames, is a lot more interesting. That's all on this page.

I just woke up and am still groggy but here's an example of what I mean about marci's posts, where her stance on RH9 starts verring towards a little too explicit:

dwlee does seem a bit better lately, but they're still the scummiest of the stop getting banned bunch.

dwlee -> rh9 -> dragons

everyones jump onto rh9 lately makes me wary of that push.

[Faker]

Meuh I'm sure you know but just to remind both of us we do need to kick me out at some point.

[Faker]

We've got 17 hours.

I don't have a vote. At some point players should start voting. Personally, I heavily prefer not-Dwlee99 and lean towards Dragons being the last scum. I've got a long list of concerns about RH9 but I think Dragons' progression around me/Dwlee99 is borderline indefensible and the timing is blatantly opportunistic. I think the interactions also point towards Dragons at the end of the day, with marci's 857 and 858 being bad attempts at misdirection.

Whoever is town please carry me.

[Faker]

She's done a good enough job obfuscating that I'm willing to chalk up all the RH9/Dragons interactions as null.

Looking at each individually it's just a very tough call. I should probably be harder on RH9's bad PoE claim but shrug. The only progression Dragons had was a smoking wreck, and he refused his chance to at least show us what was under the hood.

[Faker]

Hi hello I just got home where the fuck is SGB

[Faker]

Absolute cointoss. RH9 was rough individually, the swap makes the most sense, and at the end of the day some interactions are +town some are questionable. On the other hand I'm fine policying Dragons who perpetually dodged the thread, couldn't be bothered to show transparency or any hint of a complex thought process at virtually any point in the game, and the most words he typed came in 180ing a read at the best possible time for scum-Dragons only to retreat to it at the best possible time for scum-Dragons.

Just an absolutely embarrassing town performance and we deserve to lose, myself included.

[Faker]

Gun to my head I'd go RH9/HEM. I have plenty of words but I'll save them. If I misread RH9 while he was here, that's on me.

[Faker]

I get tilted out of my mind at players who hide terrible scumgames behind terrible towngames but if I can't find a way to circumvent and win despite them that's on me.

[Faker]

There's nothing to solve dude. We get an extension for however long the thread is locked while Datisi writes flavor.

We don't magically get 2/3 more days tacked on. Datisi is going to wake up, lock the thread for 5 minutes, then post his prewritten flavor for the game. That's it.

We have 3 fucking hours.

[Faker]

Sorry, 5.5 fucking hours.

[Faker]

I'm good with you voting Dragons. You can blame me if we lose for it and Dwlee99 is scum.

[Faker]

I'm literally confirmed town, I have passed up hammer twice now. The game is best 2 of 3 and scum is up 1-0.

How much of this setup have you read dawg?

[Faker]

Like why should I interpret this as something besides a fake dumbtell

[Faker]

Good job Dwlee99/marci/Pooky, very clean and well-executed. Don't always have to paint the Mona Lisa, get the job done and put the ball in our court to do better.

Sorry to everyone for letting us down with that read.

[Faker]

Indeed. King shit.

[Faker]

I thought we were losing the game really hard until pooky managed to win sillyposting. What a legend

I probably take scum MVP between that and this game. Disappointing but it happens, and I enjoy losses more than wins. Did I hope to retire on a win? Of course. Did I think it more fitting and somewhat more satisfying to end on a loss? Yeah, honestly.

I definitely take full responsibility for that SGB loss. I don't ~really~ regret getting us to play it slow on Sillyposting, but obviously the wrong process doesn't always yield a wrong result. I did get pretty tilted by how it happened and the slapfight where Penguin refused to dialogue with or give any agency to Lukewarm and then went shockedpikachu when Luke voted Pooky instead. I had really left off for a bit thinking "Finally, now I can leave them to solve together!" only to come back to...that.

Thanks for working with me all game, Meuh.

[Faker]

Also, just for the sake of completion:

VOTE: marcistar

[Faker]

Okay, scum MVP definitely goes to one of the scum players though it's hard to pin down which, but my point is that god knows I was a big help for them.

[Faker]

Sorry again to everyone. I know it's a team game but I hate not being good enough, and I obviously wasn't good enough this game.

I did enjoy several stretches. Thanks to Meuh for believing in me to be town, and to HEM for replacing in and trying his best.