In post 374, Aisa wrote:I think I understand that you are claiming RR is scum because you find the holes in their logic scummy, I don't think that's a convincing rebuttal to my point that you seem interested in poking holes in RR's logic.
I really don't understand this point. I've explained why I am "poking holes" RR's logic; I don't think the position they showed at the start of the day is genuine and I think it meets a scum agenda. You can make the point I'm doing this as much as you like but you don't really explain why this means I'm not assessing RR.
Not to mention you are doing exactly the same thing you are accusing me of doing! You are trying to poke holes in my argument to the end of arguing that my position isn't genuine! I don't think that's inherently a problem - it's a common tactic used in mafia games - but doing it while arguing it's somehow fundamentally flawed and scummy is really strange to me.
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
In post 368, Herta wrote:I can't really engage in full right now but didn't you say ausuka that my iso was terrible? It sounds like you don't really think so?
I hadn't really taken in aisa's recent posting, well haven't, but I will and think about it. I kinda just closed over it before which sometimes happens when there's complex thought or the appearance of such. I haven't even fully examined your recent posting but I saw the rad aisa question and it struck me on the surface if that makes sense.
I do think that but your more recent batch of posts was better. I am slightly conflicted on how to read you because I know your main and I have seen you a lot as one alignment. If I take that into account I think you are significantly townier than if I don't but from a regular player perspective your posts feel very easy to fake and the push on Juice especially isn't great
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
In post 368, Herta wrote:I can't really engage in full right now but didn't you say ausuka that my iso was terrible? It sounds like you don't really think so?
I hadn't really taken in aisa's recent posting, well haven't, but I will and think about it. I kinda just closed over it before which sometimes happens when there's complex thought or the appearance of such. I haven't even fully examined your recent posting but I saw the rad aisa question and it struck me on the surface if that makes sense.
I do think that but your more recent batch of posts was better. I am slightly conflicted on how to read you because I know your main and I have seen you a lot as one alignment. If I take that into account I think you are significantly townier than if I don't but from a regular player perspective your posts feel very easy to fake and the push on Juice especially isn't great
Would it help if I said I also know Herta's main? My read isn't a meta read, because I'm really not good at doing that beyond surface-level vibes, but I have played with him in the past via his main, and that does impact things, if not purposefully.
I didn't want to bring it up in case Herta was supposed to be a secret alt, and again, not actually meta reading here, but since you mentioned it...
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
In post 311, Radical Rat wrote:I'm really quite grumpy about the self-hammer, like. I get it, you felt the wagon wasn't fair, but. At least make scum put in the work to finish you off, give us something readable to work with.
I never really got the sense that town Marci was rereading the game in our last game. More effort to make reads and associatives isn't normally a bad thing, but this does seem different.
In post 348, Aisa wrote:VOTE: JohnnyFarrar
It would really help if you could state one read with some motivation behind it. I know you posted this catch-up post, I'm looking for one consolidated stance.
Hey man, if i'm here I'm motivated. If you mean you want me to lead a wagon or something that's prolly not gonna happen, I tend to play psychology more than mafia and people don't like cases based on vibes. I try to be clear with who I vote and why tho.
In post 348, Aisa wrote:Were you trying to say that marci is town here? What were you specifically trying to accomplish with this post?
The two of them pitched a fit at each other last game and they were both town, and Aussie in particular strikes me as someone who would be mindful of that. But they doubled down on it, which is hard to read.
In post 355, Herta wrote:Sorry that was spose to be marci. Fingers slipped.
Bruh there ain't no carrots about Marci?? How and who? Like, what?
In post 361, Herta wrote:I'm not getting town pings from anyone really except maybe marci, maybe ausuka. Maybe not ausuka. I don't know. It's lame but aisa's initial post day 1 still grates on me as does her answer to my question abt why she assumed I'm scum seemed over wrought and deflective or something. I can't recall for sure and can't be arsed to go look rn.
This is like a rambly word vomit that doesn't go anywhere, and I'm half on the "is this a bad response to pressure" and half on the "does scum even post this"
In post 372, Ausuka wrote:mafia thought he appeared competent; especially true if mafia didn't gather much suspicion
This is compelling
Phone posting. Low effort, big fun.
"In my heart, Johnny will always be scum" - Not_Mafia
In post 385, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I never really got the sense that town Marci was rereading the game in our last game. More effort to make reads and associatives isn't normally a bad thing, but this does seem different.
ok and..?
i still stand by it being somewhere in <<meg, rat, herta>> but maybe since ppl dont think im capable of rereading i wont reread to limit things more
I'm mostly in the same position as before, though I do have a nervousness that Aisa might be pocketing me, I don't really want to confront that until there's more reason to suspect her otherwise
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
In post 374, Aisa wrote:I think I understand that you are claiming RR is scum because you find the holes in their logic scummy, I don't think that's a convincing rebuttal to my point that you seem interested in poking holes in RR's logic.
I really don't understand this point. I've explained why I am "poking holes" RR's logic; I don't think the position they showed at the start of the day is genuine and I think it meets a scum agenda. You can make the point I'm doing this as much as you like but you don't really explain why this means I'm not assessing RR.
Not to mention you are doing exactly the same thing you are accusing me of doing! You are trying to poke holes in my argument to the end of arguing that my position isn't genuine! I don't think that's inherently a problem - it's a common tactic used in mafia games - but doing it while arguing it's somehow fundamentally flawed and scummy is really strange to me.
Here is my best attempt to explain what my point was.
Initially I thought the following:
- Let's assume that the NK is a bad reason to scumread marci.
- You saw RR use the one-line post as a reason to sr marci and went "Aha! That's a bad reason to scumread marci, therefore you must be scum".
- However, both town and scum can have bad justification for their reads, so bad justification is actually approximately NAI.
- You pointed out the bad justification and seemed uninterested in contemplating a world in which this bad justification came from town.
In post 351, Aisa wrote:I agree RR's logic here is not airtight, but it doesn't have to be airtight for it to be a genuine read. It feels like Ausuka is being deliberately tunnelly. Like they seem more interested in poking holes in RR's logic here than in actually trying to assess if RR is coming from a towny mindset.
I don't think this applies here. First of all, I'm really not tunneling - I townleaned RR d1 and only just started scumreading them. Secondly, I think the holes in the logic are *exactly why* RR comes off as not having a towny mindset. I don't believe that after Hiraki is nightkilled, someone who had been pushing RR, RR assumes Hiraki was killed for his reads, when they know Hiraki was vocally wrong about at least one thing. It comes off as too convenient, allowing them to pivot into scumreading Marci at the start of today - after pushing Juice Marci is the logical next easy target for scum because neither of them have any self preservation and both say things that make no sense.
I give you that you did explain why you don't think RR's position is genuine. However, this reads to me like you are doubling down - am I correct that you are essentially saying "I don't believe this justification comes from town"?
I think it's completely fine for you to think so if you are town, but FMPOV that just felt like a restatement of what you had already said:
Spoiler:
In post 338, Ausuka wrote:That makes some sense but also like, it's hard to believe the fact Hiraki was pushing town most loudly from your pov didn't lead you to other conclusions - like he was probably killed for being widely townread, or maybe mafia somehow caught on he was a PR. The way you seem to like, instantly come up with a scumpool of me and marci at daystart is kind of sus to me. After strongly pushing Juice as scum it's a convenient pivot to have available.
And given that this ^ post felt kinda like motivated reasoning, the fact you've mostly restated your original position didn't really help your position in my eyes.
In post 351, Aisa wrote:Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
And yeah, obviously I've heard of a tone read. That doesn't mean I'm just going to accept any read and not question it. It's absolutely possible that RR is town here and I just don't understand their angle. But given how simple Herta's post is, I think claiming to townread it is scum indicative. It makes it seem more likely they are tailoring the evidence to fit the reads rather than the other way around.
I think claiming to townread that post is pretty null. The emphasis you're putting on assessing logic just feels like it could be a pretty nice way to create red tape, so to speak. If we're gonna poke holes in people's logic we could be here for many weeks.
[...]
In hindsight though this reply (I wrote it! *waves*) was kinda bad, I now think that independently of Ausuka's alignment they weren't really trying to create "red tape" so I think I get why my posting would have confused them
But I believe that my point that claiming to townread Herta's post is pretty null still stands? Like I think I probably just disagree with how alignment-indicative it is.
In post 365, Ausuka wrote:Like, I think the holes in the logic are not particularly difficult to understand. You also found this an odd angle. RR is not a new player. Why should I believe that their thought process is genuine? The simplest explanation is that RR was looking for a pivot into Marci and planned to use the Hiraki kill as an excuse to do so while also eliminating their biggest critic from the game.
Also probably worth stating out loud that this kinda reads motivated, especially the "why should I believe...?"
I also disagree that the simplest explanation is RR looking for a pivot into marci? The simplest explanation in my eyes is Townie being town.
