Open 867: PYP: SEFD - Game Over !

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gamma

[northsidegal]

later on we can get into the WIFOM of whether or not scum picked the same number (to which the answer is typically no) but for now it's probably a waste of attention.

isn't it always going to be a waste of time then? I don't really get what you mean here

also how did you get a town read out of NK15's 1 post

it doesn't seem that hard to understand, honestly. later in the game when we actually have a few flips we can probably make more definitive statements (or at the very least more informed statements) about the position of scum within the number picks. i guess to be fair i said "later on we can get into the WIFOM" when really what i just meant is later on we can get into the subject of the number picks at all, not necessarily just the subject of whether scum repeated their picks (to which again the answer is basically always: no they didn't).

what's your interpretation of NK15's one post? do you think it's just NAI?

[Gamma Emerald]

Before things go to far, just wanna mention to not let Penguin or especially nsg slide without justifying their votes on me

why especially me?

and why direct other people to do this and not just do it yourself?

because you spoke about other people but didn't actually provide reasoning for your vote, penguins was basically just a naked vote
and I figure if others push for it, there's a greater chance of it happening

[northsidegal]

seems a little bizarre

[northsidegal]

do you think scrrrdbear is stupid town or scum?

[Dannflor]

ah, I understand and I agree with that largely. the "get into the WIFOM" part made me raise an eyebrow as that seems contradictory and made me feel like you were just saying things to say things. I think I just misunderstood though

regarding NK15, I think it depends on what he does next. as it is, I don't think engaging in a specific part of scrrdbear's post is all that AI.

maybe this is best talked about once he posts more

[Dannflor]

Gamma let me ask you this

what justification are you actually expecting / would you be happy with from nsg or penguin?

like I feel you're overly worried about the seriousness of a page 5 wagon on you

[PenguinPower]

like I feel you're overly worried about the seriousness of a page 5 wagon on you

[northsidegal]

granted, i am pretty

washed up

rusty, it's been quite a while since i've played with nk15 and he was always pretty hard to read, but i feel like his one post is already somewhat town indicative.

I'D SAY PORKENS, ENCHANT AND JUNKO ARE TOWN. PENGUIN IS NULL CLOSER TO TOWN, DANNFLOR IS NULL CLOSER TO SCUM. GAMMA IS SCUM.

What's the reason for Junko town?

i'm of the belief that someone singling out one read from a set of reads and asking for justification for that is probably more likely to come from town. i think that it's indicative of a genuine underlying thought process: as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.

it's not the strongest read of all time, but i still think that it's indicative.

[Porkens]

I definitely wouldn’t townread NK15 for that post.

[northsidegal]

saying that it's an outright townread would be too strong, but like i said i think it's at least town-indicative.

[Porkens]

I just had a game where one scum did nothing but ask why people townread other people, so I guess I’m sensitive to it.

[Porkens]

In fact I think it’s odd that you town lean that. Your explanation that you think it shows a town mindset doesn’t really hold water for me. Why would that come from town? Your explanation states:

“as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.“

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is more likely to come from town.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

[Porkens]

And I’ll say it: if nk15 flips red, then so will nsg

[Porkens]

In fact I think it’s odd that you town lean that. Your explanation that you think it shows a town mindset doesn’t really hold water for me. Why would that come from town? Your explanation states:

“as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.“

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is less likely to come from scum.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

[Porkens]

And hey nice to see you again Northsidegal.

Also where the hell is noot moofia

[Dannflor]

do u have any thoughts on gamma porkens

[Dannflor]

i don't really agree it's likely nsg's like first read of the game is a super weak town read on her buddy

[Dannflor]

in fact i think the process is like very marginally town indicative for nsg even though i disagree

[Dannflor]

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is more likely to come from town.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

Porkens I'm not getting why you jumped from "that's not a town post" to "that's a scum post"

I am equally incredulous of reading into it as a scum post

like, I think it's an easy scum entrance or it *could* be indicative of an underlying town thought process but I don't think there is enough information to make that judgement yet

Can you explain what's indicative about that post?

[Dannflor]

in fact i think the process is like very marginally town indicative for nsg even though i disagree

actually no

I think nsg will be very readable with time but her posts so far are like just Fine

[northsidegal]

In fact I think it’s odd that you town lean that. Your explanation that you think it shows a town mindset doesn’t really hold water for me. Why would that come from town? Your explanation states:

“as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.“

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is more likely to come from town.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

i do say why i think it's town behavior: because i think that it's indicative of someone reading the thread and genuinely having their own thoughts. scum is "capable" of doing anything that town can do, of course: it's a question of probability, and my evaluation is that the probability that town asks that question is (even if slightly!) higher than that for scum. i didn't "shit on" my own read, i'm trying to be clear about the exact degree to which i think things and not overstate anything.

it feels like the criticism you're making of my read could be applied to basically any read ever. oh, you think that that action is towny because it's more likely to come from town? well, yeah, that's kinda how this game works.

[Porkens]

Really scummy through post 22.

And why do you not think it’s within JC/NM, or the FIVE people that picked 1?

Asking why someone doesn’t think something is kind of in line with what o was talking about earlier.

And why do you not think it’s within JC/NM, or the FIVE people that picked 1?

And why do you not think it’s within JC/NM, or the FIVE people that picked 1?

And it better be a good reason because I can already think of one, and it’s not a great look for you Sir Bear

IDRC ABOUT THE 1 CHOICES, I RULED THAT NUMBER OUT RIGHT AWAY.

THE SHADE IN #38 IS MORE INDICATIVE OF SCUM.

VOTE: Gamma

So, despite the statistical evidence supporting there being multiple scum in the 1s, you have somehow "ruled them out" already. Yeah that's bogus.
VOTE: SCRRRDBEAR

I mean, it’s omgus, but let’s look at 38:

And why do you not think it’s within JC/NM, or the FIVE people that picked 1?

And why do you not think it’s within JC/NM, or the FIVE people that picked 1?

And it better be a good reason because I can already think of one, and it’s not a great look for you Sir Bear

IDRC ABOUT THE 1 CHOICES, I RULED THAT NUMBER OUT RIGHT AWAY.

THE SHADE IN #38 IS MORE INDICATIVE OF SCUM.

VOTE: Gamma

So, despite the statistical evidence supporting there being multiple scum in the 1s, you have somehow "ruled them out" already. Yeah that's bogus.
VOTE: SCRRRDBEAR

And it better be a good reason because I can already think of one, and it’s not a great look for you Sir Bear

So yeah, it is a weird shadey thing to say.

Ugh quote failure and I’m on my phone can’t fix it. Sorry. Will continue in next post

[Porkens]

In fact I think it’s odd that you town lean that. Your explanation that you think it shows a town mindset doesn’t really hold water for me. Why would that come from town? Your explanation states:

“as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.“

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is more likely to come from town.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

i do say why i think it's town behavior: because i think that it's indicative of someone reading the thread and genuinely having their own thoughts. scum is "capable" of doing anything that town can do, of course: it's a question of probability, and my evaluation is that the probability that town asks that question is (even if slightly!) higher than that for scum. i didn't "shit on" my own read, i'm trying to be clear about the exact degree to which i think things and not overstate anything.

it feels like the criticism you're making of my read could be applied to basically any read ever. oh, you think that that action is towny because it's more likely to come from town? well, yeah, that's kinda how this game works.

I can see where you are coming from. I have a couple of points;

1. Scum can’t do anything town can do. Scum knows they are scum and have to “act towny” to not get eliminated. That’s an act. It’s very hard to “forget you are scum.” So in a way, every scum post is forced. Town has no such restriction.

2. It doesn’t explain every argument ever. You are saying that you think that behavior is towny, but you haven’t justified it in an acceptable way to establish that is town behavior. That’s the part of your argument I am attacking.

3. I don’t think you really want to get into “probability” here. Everyone is more probably town, so your feeling that is true doesn’t count for much.

[Porkens]

4. You did downplay your own read - we can agree on that. I think that’s scummy because it’s a good setup for having your read proved wrong. I can see scum motivation there. What would the town motivation be?