House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The Great Council

King Jaehaerys I has passed away unexpectedly in his sleep. The line of succession is unclear - as great lords and ladies, you have been summoned to Kings Landing to restore order to the Realm....

The Iron Throne can not stay empty for long, you have seven days to select the next King of Westeros.

Game Conditions:

Vote for the player you wish to crown King. With twenty one players alive, eleven votes will select a monarch - plurality rules will apply at the deadline.


The King shall have the following abilities;

King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men

You may execute a player during the day - this will end the day and replace the normal voting mechanism - this ability can not be used on consecutive days.

Lord of the Seven Kingdoms

You must select players to join your small council which will aid you in ruling the realm. Players may not refuse appointments to the small council.

Protector of the Realm

All abilities except for killing abilities will not work on you. Killing abilities will not work on you if the Kingsguard are loyal to you

.

The bolded is the relevant phrase. The King is Ascetic to all abilities, and killing abilities will be prevented if the Kingsguard they appoint are loyal to you, which I believe means "share your alignment" but Pooky probably should have phrased it more accurately given it's rules text.

Says nothing about vote to eliminate, though obviously the King may overrule one of those.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Are we all on the same page now? Does everyone understand how this is going to work?

We'll vote for a King, the King will appoint their 7 small council seats, which includes their Successor and 6 others with power, who will also appoint Kingsguard who if loyal to the king means the king cannot be executed by killing abilities and the king is normally immune to all other abilities.

So, in general... the math of the game is hung on a knife's edge and people should be far more concerned with finding and backing their most townie candidate, even if they think that player would be a "bad king", so long as they are town and they're willing to listen and allow the game to progress... we're in a better spot than the alternative which is one bad vote away from death.

Addmittedly, the unknown roles are possibly available to prevent that world? Maybe one of the small council has a govern ability they may use to stop a king's execution? But agian, if the king appoints their Small Council, then it's important the first king is town or we might see those abilities as scum controlled anyway

[Dannflor]

Lady Lambdadelta what are your reads

also who is actually disagreeing that finding a town for King is important

[Dannflor]

I like want to townread Datisi but if I'm honest with myself his posts make me feel nothing

then why do you *want* to townread me?

I think surface level skimming your posts my heart says town but when I drill down deeper I don't really see anything that I think is unlikely to be faked from you

also I just like you and if you rolled scum I would be a little bit heart broken

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Speaking of

Vote: UNOwen

This is my most confident pick for town at the moment, though I suspect they would struggle to be king.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lady Lambdadelta what are your reads

also who is actually disagreeing that finding a town for King is important

The people who seem to be more concerned with someone's quality for king over their actual status? and the people who seem content to lurk through this phase and solve it in the next one.

On face everyone will agree a townie needs to be king, but actions aren't lining up with intent. We're on path to select a king from the most active most friendly face, I think, which is likely to be a recipe for disaster.

[Andresvmb]

Like what an annoying and horrific argument from someone who could just ask questions. I wasn’t arguing for mechanics and obviously a King that’s empowered to lead the Town astray very quickly becomes decisive. It’s actually why I think this vote is very important. And what does it have anything to do with math?

You're suggesting we attempt to force a king to select a successor by popular vote, or we will eliminate that king.

The king can simply execute dissidents, and has no need to obey such requirements.

You're pushing what is effectively a losing strategy by trying to leash a King, when in reality this first vote for king is the most important.

So why are you looking forward towards something that won't work instead of sorting players from who you think are town or not?

Right, the King can just eliminate an entire majority of the game if the majority strongly feels a player should be the Successor with no consequences, and we will all just acquiesce and nothing can be done.

I’m not pushing any strategy. You’re completely misrepresenting my point and it’s annoying. I argued for what optimally I feel a Town King should do. I was expressing an ideal. I think a King or Queen should try ideally to listen to his or her subjects. I think a King or Queen that goes their own way, crushes dissent and fails to listen, and starts just executing people that disagree, is highly likely to be Scum and should be executed. You’re almost implying that I’m arguing that the choice of King or Queen doesn’t matter because we can leash them. Which is absolutely not what I’m saying and idiotic. You’re fighting an argument I’m not making because you’re trying to paint me as dense for reasons I totally do not understand.

To be clear. The choice of King or Queen is important. I think the Scum have an important incentive to take control of the role. I think a King or Queen playing optimally should want to devolve power to more players, layered with their own personal views, experience, and concerns. I don’t think Scum is likely to listen, particularly if the majority is lead by Strong Town, but I personally don’t think that the Scum as King or Queen would absolutely just start executing people and ignoring everything because then they would out themselves and I’m not as convinced that a trade 1 for 1 here makes sense all the time. I do understand your point that someone elected King or Queen is probably going to have an outsized voice and is likely to be able to drive a mis execution as Scum. So again, we don’t disagree. You’re just arguing points I’m not making and insulting me, and then doubling down on the insults.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well, Dann, let me just say that if your name starts with D, I Don't Trust You currently.

Actually let me stretch that to A as well, wow that works cleanly.

I'm not sure who in that group of 5 names is actually scum but I don't trust the way any of you have approached the past 10 pages.

I also dislike Shea and Ti- Oh, hey, I'm not trustful of T's either.

Mastina is being a wildcard, which is standard.

I like Rhae, UNOwen, Luke and Junko for town, currently.

[Dannflor]

Why aren't you explaining and trying to convince others of your UNOwen read

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like what an annoying and horrific argument from someone who could just ask questions. I wasn’t arguing for mechanics and obviously a King that’s empowered to lead the Town astray very quickly becomes decisive. It’s actually why I think this vote is very important. And what does it have anything to do with math?

You're suggesting we attempt to force a king to select a successor by popular vote, or we will eliminate that king.

The king can simply execute dissidents, and has no need to obey such requirements.

You're pushing what is effectively a losing strategy by trying to leash a King, when in reality this first vote for king is the most important.

So why are you looking forward towards something that won't work instead of sorting players from who you think are town or not?

Right, the King can just eliminate an entire majority of the game if the majority strongly feels a player should be the Successor with no consequences, and we will all just acquiesce and nothing can be done.

I’m not pushing any strategy. You’re completely misrepresenting my point and it’s annoying. I argued for what optimally I feel a Town King should do. I was expressing an ideal. I think a King or Queen should try ideally to listen to his or her subjects. I think a King or Queen that goes their own way, crushes dissent and fails to listen, and starts just executing people that disagree, is highly likely to be Scum and should be executed. You’re almost implying that I’m arguing that the choice of King or Queen doesn’t matter because we can leash them. Which is absolutely not what I’m saying and idiotic. You’re fighting an argument I’m not making because you’re trying to paint me as dense for reasons I totally do not understand.

To be clear. The choice of King or Queen is important. I think the Scum have an important incentive to take control of the role. I think a King or Queen playing optimally should want to devolve power to more players, layered with their own personal views, experience, and concerns. I don’t think Scum is likely to listen, particularly if the majority is lead by Strong Town, but I personally don’t think that the Scum as King or Queen would absolutely just start executing people and ignoring everything because then they would out themselves and I’m not as convinced that a trade 1 for 1 here makes sense all the time. I do understand your point that someone elected King or Queen is probably going to have an outsized voice and is likely to be able to drive a mis execution as Scum. So again, we don’t disagree. You’re just arguing points I’m not making and insulting me, and then doubling down on the insults.

I'm not insulting you, I'm saying you have a bad plan and I'm asking if you're being purposefully dense for the sake of dodging something, the answer being "no" it seems.

Ideal is the exact word I would use for what you're trying to do here. You're suggesting that Kings democratically function and leashing them and that's just not going to Lapin.

You've spent more coherent words on me poking at you than you have spent trying to form a townblock of players who should form a small council to begin with. You are so focused on the ideal and taking your time getting anywhere you may as well be twiddling your thumbs.

Instead of trying to make arguments about how you want the kingship to work, how about you try finding me... I dunno, 5 people you think are town and one of those you think is the most town to make king.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why aren't you explaining and trying to convince others of your UNOwen read

I am.

Why are you asking looping rhetorical questions that are specifically worded in ways to try and lead assumptions to players who read them?

You haven't asked me a single question yet about why I believe what I believe, instead you asked me two questions to try to pin me down to something and then followed up with a trap of "well if you believe that, why aren't you pushing it?"

This is why I don't trust you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

To restate for those who go and read this later, in a way that is much more direct.

Why do you think Dann asked me what my reads were and then why I wasn't pushing them, skipping over asking me the intermediary step of "why do you think X is town?"

An exercise left to the reader, I think.

[Andresvmb]

Fuck me. I tried clarifying what I meant and you’re insisting on stupid.

Did I ever make the point that King’s function democratically? Did I ever as much as imply that? Anyone? What makes you think I’m not reading to try and figure out alignment? I mean it’s almost like I haven’t expressed any views even though… I have. I’m starting to think you’re Scum only because you’re dismissing what I’m saying in a way that makes no sense. So why don’t I ask you - is your position that the King or Queen should ignore its subjects (or even more narrowly, it’s Council), when selecting a Successor? Will you, as Queen, make decisions while ignoring everyone else’s opinions? How do you intend to use the power of day execution, if picked to be Queen?

It’s way too early for me to have a Town block of 7 players that I would fully trust as a Small Council if I were picked King. Like way too early. I was sharing what I had, and also debating with VPB about why I didn’t want to be King. It was a response to a question, and not a proposal for a strategy.

[Dannflor]

I don't like the way you're approaching this conversation

It feels like you're focusing on mech over substance but it's dressed up by an experienced player to make it seem like you're doing the Most Pro Town Thing Ever

I don't trust how you're presenting this pick as Very Important as if it is revelatory information and everyone else is just game throwing when I don't think that's a very genuine perspective on the game. It feels like theatrics. and I'm trying to get you to explain your reads first because I feel like if you genuinely believe what you're saying that's where your priority should lie?

can you explain your Rhae and UNOwen reads in particular

[Dannflor]

To restate for those who go and read this later, in a way that is much more direct.

Why do you think Dann asked me what my reads were and then why I wasn't pushing them, skipping over asking me the intermediary step of "why do you think X is town?"

An exercise left to the reader, I think.

I don't think I should have to ask you to explain a read that seems very unpopular given what you've posted about the game so far

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fuck me. I tried clarifying what I meant and you’re insisting on stupid.

Did I ever make the point that King’s function democratically? Did I ever as much as imply that? Anyone? What makes you think I’m not reading to try and figure out alignment? I mean it’s almost like I haven’t expressed any views even though… I have. I’m starting to think you’re Scum only because you’re dismissing what I’m saying in a way that makes no sense. So why don’t I ask you - is your position that the King or Queen should ignore its subjects (or even more narrowly, it’s Council), when selecting a Successor? Will you, as Queen, make decisions while ignoring everyone else’s opinions? How do you intend to use the power of day execution, if picked to be Queen?

It’s way too early for me to have a Town block of 7 players that I would fully trust as a Small Council if I were picked King. Like way too early. I was sharing what I had, and also debating with VPB about why I didn’t want to be King. It was a response to a question, and not a proposal for a strategy.

I didn't ask for 7, I asked for 5 people you have good vibes about and one who you support to be king.

Am I asking for too much? Are you assuming I want you to marry yourself to these choices?

You're a human, you have the prerogative to change your mind, fuck me. Hell it's fine to say "I don't have that right now"

what's not okay is not then seeking it out as a response to that. Like if you can't name 5 people you think are likely to be town at this point, you should probably be looking much harder.

[Andresvmb]

Why aren't you explaining and trying to convince others of your UNOwen read

I am.

Why are you asking looping rhetorical questions that are specifically worded in ways to try and lead assumptions to players who read them?

You haven't asked me a single question yet about why I believe what I believe, instead you asked me two questions to try to pin me down to something and then followed up with a trap of "well if you believe that, why aren't you pushing it?"

This is why I don't trust you.

You've done the same to me. You asked me a rhetorical question to make it look like I’m not Scum hunting without asking me for my views, all because you misread what I wrote and felt the need to insult my intelligence.

[JunkoChan]

nvm I see what you mean

I am going to assume this means you understood the math that was processed (including nightkill math). I also understand the king may not execute twice in a row, but the math accounts for that, and even assumed we kill the bad king every chance we get.

If you need a more indepth explination I'll write it in word form but as it stands, I am assuming you pieced it together?

ya I got it, without something like a town vigilante hitting mafia or a doctor saving a target there's a tight space for mislim if the first king is mafia

[Dannflor]

like I think if it's true that you believe it's dire that we promote the absolute towniest candidate for town

and you also have a strong town read that so far no one else has seemed to agree on

your posts should be focused more on that than convincing everyone of something that I don't think anyone actually needs to be convinced of

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't like the way you're approaching this conversation

It feels like you're focusing on mech over substance but it's dressed up by an experienced player to make it seem like you're doing the Most Pro Town Thing Ever

I don't trust how you're presenting this pick as Very Important as if it is revelatory information and everyone else is just game throwing when I don't think that's a very genuine perspective on the game. It feels like theatrics. and I'm trying to get you to explain your reads first because I feel like if you genuinely believe what you're saying that's where your priority should lie?

can you explain your Rhae and UNOwen reads in particular

To restate for those who go and read this later, in a way that is much more direct.

Why do you think Dann asked me what my reads were and then why I wasn't pushing them, skipping over asking me the intermediary step of "why do you think X is town?"

An exercise left to the reader, I think.

I don't think I should have to ask you to explain a read that seems very unpopular given what you've posted about the game so far

No? You don't?

But only after I brought it up, right?

No, I think it's important that you sought out to try and solve me and then decided in your process you would skip over any actual attempts to read me and jump directly to questioning my methods instead.

I think it belays that you don't actually give a shit why I believe what I believe, only that it's unpopular by comparison to YOUR reads.

Now, why would you be worried about that?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why aren't you explaining and trying to convince others of your UNOwen read

I am.

Why are you asking looping rhetorical questions that are specifically worded in ways to try and lead assumptions to players who read them?

You haven't asked me a single question yet about why I believe what I believe, instead you asked me two questions to try to pin me down to something and then followed up with a trap of "well if you believe that, why aren't you pushing it?"

This is why I don't trust you.

You've done the same to me. You asked me a rhetorical question to make it look like I’m not Scum hunting without asking me for my views, all because you misread what I wrote and felt the need to insult my intelligence.

I'm done arguing with you. Find your townies. I'm not insulting your intelligence by asking if you were playing dense to try and avoid something.

[Dannflor]

that feels like a misrepresentation of what I said

I don't think I've seen anyone state a town read of UNOwen, and I seem to remember at least a couple people state scum reads on him

I don't actually have a read on him but I feel like if you're town and saw that that would be a higher priority for you or you would engage with that discussion without prompting?

[Andresvmb]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

that feels like a misrepresentation of what I said

I don't think I've seen anyone state a town read of UNOwen, and I seem to remember at least a couple people state scum reads on him

I don't actually have a read on him but I feel like if you're town and saw that that would be a higher priority for you or you would engage with that discussion without prompting?

Well given I gave my read in the literal same second as you started making this argument, I wonder about it's motivations.

Further, you don't get to tell me I'm misrepresenting you without saying which parts I'm misrepresenting. I'll be awaiting your interpretations on that end..

You don't have a read on him, and you "remember people scum reading him".

Gee, Dannflor, maybe my stance might motivate you to get a read on that player? Do you think?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have positive feelings for {GuiltyLion, Andante, JunkoChan} and to a lesser extent {VPB, Dannflor, Lukewarm}.

I wouldn’t have Datisi in my Small Council, or you LLD, or Enchant, and I don’t trust mastina just yet.

I think there’s enough AI content by a few other players I need to spend more time on. Like I feel like I should have a more fleshed out opinion on DW, firebringer, or Rhaenyra, but I don’t just yet.

Oh and I like the Professor - they can stay.

See, I like this!

Can you tell me more about GL and Andante?

and... also about Professor and VPB?

Merci