House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Andresvmb]

so, i slept on it and i am back to not trusting andres' read on me this game ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

i went to check the relevant games, and yeah. the game that he referenced earlier, he basically entered saying "datisi is scum". and in a different game we played in when we were both town (2201) his first professed read on me early on was "datisi is town". the scumgame of his that i link however, had a weird non-commital early read of me

and rereading his solving of my slot this game, i just get very reminded of the scum-andres vibe from the scumgame... like, he first mentions me in 247, but most of the post is talking about how i'm not partners with guiltylion, and "i'm not townreading datisi btw" is basically an afterthought. it feels like he's moreso trying to show that he's thinking about my alignment and relations with other people, but the actual read of me isn't that important to him and it's completely secondary

once i call him out on remembering that game wrong, that thought ends up going nowhere. the second paragraph of 488 really bothers me too - it's showing this uncertainty about my alignment that i don't remember seeing from town-him. or like, if those were his honest thoughts on me, i think he'd end up properly scumreading me for it. but the "i wanna see you get into a shitfight" feels like he's *expecting* that to happen at some point. and it doesn't really mesh with 496 where he says he's suspicious of me - because it feels like he's almost afraid of actually pressuring me or calling me scum outright.

I am having doubts as to whether you would be confrontational with me in a game where you’re Scum (and I’m Town) when I haven’t yet shared a definitive view of your alignment, even when you can clearly tell that it’s leaning negative at the time. Particularly when you’ve expressed in multiple different games that I tend to read you properly over time almost always. But at the same time, what’s stuck in the back of my mind is that you might be trying to get ahead of me arriving at the conclusion that you’re Scum by SR’ing me, in order to mitigate the damage from me expressing an outright SR of your slot. But then I’m left with the thought of well, why does that make sense? If you’re Scum here, wouldn’t you want to engage with me directly to perhaps dissuade me from coming out with a strong stance on you, instead of shading me from a distance? So I TR your analysis of VPB’s play, I can see why you would question their read of me when I’m being vague about my thoughts on you in particular, and you’re seeing me agree with some of the slots that you’re expressing some skepticism of (e.g. GuiltyLion).

I also had another thought about you in particular that is mostly based on meta that it’s purely my own perception and I can’t fully explain, but whatever. I don’t have you pegged as the power Scum type. Not in the way that say Koba or Flavor Leaf or Frogsterking would do it. And if you think about the decisions and the actions that the King will undertake, and how much information they’re going to reveal by virtue of those choices, I think it would scare you shitless to put yourself forward as King if you were Scum. Probably enough that you would want to avoid it altogether, or actively campaign against being selected. But you didn’t, and the more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards it coming from Town you.

[mastina]

I literally did not say anything about her alignment

Okay but like, now I've given a lot of thoughts and many of them in real time.

You

should

have thoughts to say there by now.

Maybe not confident alignment thoughts, but things you think about me.

You've been actively posting during my catchup, and reading, and seeing me closer and closer to caught up. You've given commentary on my posts, but no

thoughts

on them.

So.

What do you think?

[Thestatusquo]

I think you're likely town. I still don't want you to be king. I have some paranoia about how positively you interacted/commented specifically rhea and andante but I'll sort out those feelings later.

I think you're probably wrong on GL and Dann though I have noted the GL post about luke recently as something that bothers me a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont have any reasoning other than I dont think your catchup felt like you had an agenda.

[Andresvmb]

@mastina I want to trust your reads, but you have 2 Scum when we know there’s 5. So you have way too many TRs.

I’m also quite skeptical of Enchant.

I’m going to have to re-read GL because every time they came in and contributed, I distinctly remember liking their thought process. But this game feels weird from my perspective - I have a lot of people expressing TRs of my slot, with only a few openly questioning my alignment (Enchant, Datisi), but I almost feel like there isn’t sufficient engagement with my points or perspective. DW hasn’t even acknowledged my existence when I feel they would be reaching out to me a bit at least, Titus has completely ignored my presence (like not even a vague comment about my alignment at all), and there’s a few players that I think should be more solid in their read of me but they’re not (like Dann). And this is one of the rare games over the last few months when I’m posting a lot, in real time, and aggressively avoiding falling behind. And I feel motivated to do that because I’m finding the mechanics of the game very interesting, and I really like the flavor.

[Thestatusquo]

@mastina I want to trust your reads, but you have 2 Scum when we know there’s 5. So you have way too many TRs.

I’m also quite skeptical of Enchant.

I’m going to have to re-read GL because every time they came in and contributed, I distinctly remember liking their thought process. But this game feels weird from my perspective - I have a lot of people expressing TRs of my slot, with only a few openly questioning my alignment (Enchant, Datisi), but I almost feel like there isn’t sufficient engagement with my points or perspective. DW hasn’t even acknowledged my existence when I feel they would be reaching out to me a bit at least, Titus has completely ignored my presence (like not even a vague comment about my alignment at all), and there’s a few players that I think should be more solid in their read of me but they’re not (like Dann). And this is one of the rare games over the last few months when I’m posting a lot, in real time, and aggressively avoiding falling behind. And I feel motivated to do that because I’m finding the mechanics of the game very interesting, and I really like the flavor.

Idk I think its pretty normal to have a lot more town reads than scum reads by virtue of there being a lot more town than scum? I also think this is something scum tends to be conscious of that town isn't and is therefore a mild town tell for someone to have a lot more town reads than scum reads.

[Andresvmb]

@TSQ I TR mastina for what it’s worth. I’m not suggesting they’re Scum. I just want them to refine their reads a bit so I can engage with them a bit better. Like if we want to avoid putting a lot of Scum in say the Kings guard, we’re going to have to come to better conclusions on some of the more marginal players.

[Andresvmb]

And by marginal I mean harder to read (because they don’t have a lot of content). Say, for example, Bellaphant, who is almost intentionally making themselves a complete bystander in the game.

[Thestatusquo]

I get it but what I'm saying is that what you're suggesting isn't really how reads work? People develop town and scum reads as they happen. More people are town than scum, therefore its natural to have more town reads than scum reads.

I don't know what exactly you're asking mastina to do, really? Like...make up stances on people that she doesn't have?

I understand your reasoning for the why here, because yes obviously we want town in positions of authority, but I'm not sure what you think the "how" is?

I also have mostly town reads and some pings here or there for scum, which is usually about where I'm at day one anyway.

[Thestatusquo]

If anything the thing that I like the least about mastina's catchup is the projected confidence on the dann and the GL reads. Those are two very good and solid players who to my eyes don't have a lot of obvious tells in my experience playing with them, so the confidence in the reads is I think pretty unfounded.

[Andresvmb]

I get it but what I'm saying is that what you're suggesting isn't really how reads work? People develop town and scum reads as they happen. More people are town than scum, therefore its natural to have more town reads than scum reads.

I don't know what exactly you're asking mastina to do, really? Like...make up stances on people that she doesn't have?

I understand your reasoning for the why here, because yes obviously we want town in positions of authority, but I'm not sure what you think the "how" is?

I also have mostly town reads and some pings here or there for scum, which is usually about where I'm at day one anyway.

I’m not asking mastina to make shit up. I’m asking them to react to my post and tell me why I should have Enchant Town. Why I shouldn’t trust VPB when I’ve just switched my vote to them. Where do they think their blind spots might be.

[Andresvmb]

If anything the thing that I like the least about mastina's catchup is the projected confidence on the dann and the GL reads. Those are two very good and solid players who to my eyes don't have a lot of obvious tells in my experience playing with them, so the confidence in the reads is I think pretty unfounded.

I agree with this too. My read of GL has softened somewhat for what it’s worth (which explains my pivot), but having them as one of the Scummiest slots in the game is shocking to me. Which is why I want to re-read their ISO next.

[Thestatusquo]

Enchant's play this game pretty much exactly matches enchants play in pictures which just finished where enchant was town, so I'm happy enough leaving them alone for now personally.

[Thestatusquo]

I think they shouldn't have any authority anyway as either alignment because *gestures vaguely at enchants whole gimmick*

[Thestatusquo]

If anything the thing that I like the least about mastina's catchup is the projected confidence on the dann and the GL reads. Those are two very good and solid players who to my eyes don't have a lot of obvious tells in my experience playing with them, so the confidence in the reads is I think pretty unfounded.

I agree with this too. My read of GL has softened somewhat for what it’s worth (which explains my pivot), but having them as one of the Scummiest slots in the game is shocking to me. Which is why I want to re-read their ISO next.

can you expand on why your GL read softened?

[Andresvmb]

If anything the thing that I like the least about mastina's catchup is the projected confidence on the dann and the GL reads. Those are two very good and solid players who to my eyes don't have a lot of obvious tells in my experience playing with them, so the confidence in the reads is I think pretty unfounded.

I agree with this too. My read of GL has softened somewhat for what it’s worth (which explains my pivot), but having them as one of the Scummiest slots in the game is shocking to me. Which is why I want to re-read their ISO next.

can you expand on why your GL read softened?

The exact reasoning is kind of stupid so I feel a bit embarrassed about sharing it. But I felt it was wrong that I was TR’ing GL so strongly when they were questioning Datisi in particular for an extended period (see, for example, 117, and how they vibed with my read in 581), who in the interim was making a case about a player I TR strongly now too (VPB). Like I’m coming around to Datisi Town, who was the first and very early proponent of VPB for King, so them getting sidelined a bit by GL I feel should make me question the strength of that read.

That’s like a very jumbled explanation but hopefully you can follow it even if it might not make sense.

[Thestatusquo]

581 is a firebringer post so thats not helping me followi.

[Andresvmb]

I've read up

I'm townreading all of TSQ, Dann, VP Baltar, Andres and would vote any of them for king. I'm most confident on the TSQ read. I was a little concerned about Andres initially cause it felt like he was doing campaign speeches for King but I really like the reads on LLD in 481 and Datisi in 488 & 494, I don't agree with all of the reasoning behind the LLD read but it's an earnest and transparent thought process and I definitely vibe with him on Datisi who is still very much iffy for me. I didn't like this post:

VOTE: Datisi

are you voting for me just because you know i'm gonna make you master of coin or whatever other title you want

it struck me as awkward in that Datisi feels obligated to respond to FB but doesn't have a real drive/thought process to sort him, and went with this comment instead.

Andante is also bit suspicious for me, the confidence in 131 gave me strong flashbacks to HDP where she was scum and made some absurd prediction about all four scum being in the gentlemen group, I get that she normally talks like this but I thought it felt a bit forced in this instance and not entirely like a natural/genuine thought to me. I don't think she's as polarized as some people in the thread have been suggesting.

Another scummy slot on my radar is Lukewarm, 373 feels LAMISTy, and the delivery of 495 feels kinda rote, like he found one thing he could jump on Baltar about without considering anything else Baltar's posted. overall he also seems kinda detached from giving reads/commentary on the meatier threads of the game or the notable players.

other hot takes that aren't particularly strong reads:
-I sorta TR FB, it's not confident yet but I'm getting positive vibes
-I sorta TR Junko too but I'm not willing to bank it yet
-I dislike Rhaenyra's insistence on Mastina being King, I agree that Mastina would be a terrible King in terms of keeping up in real time, and if anything I got slight scumvibes from her entrance. However I'm not sure yet whether Rhaenyra's agenda is alignment or personality indicative, I need to sit with that one.

This post.

[Thestatusquo]

That sure does seem convoluted. So the thought process is that GL was trying to keep you from consolidating town reads or something?

[Andresvmb]

And look I’m saying it’s a bit stupid because I personally find reads that depend upon associations like I just put forth to be wholly unreliable. Like I would always default to my impression of the player directly before I would rely on inferences like the one I just shared. But the fact that a player I was TR’ing was shading a player that I have come around on, when they were an early proponent of VPB for King (which I’m now actively voting for), is making me question why my read was as strong as it was. So I have to go back and look again.

[VP Baltar]

I have noted the GL post about luke recently as something that bothers me a lot.

Did you say after that post that you wanted GL to be king?

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah I'm still voting him. I still town read him, I just didnt like that post.

[VP Baltar]

Enchant's play this game pretty much exactly matches enchants play in pictures which just finished where enchant was town, so I'm happy enough leaving them alone for now personally.

Enchant's play doesn't seem that townie actually. It's not super engaged in poking people enchant finds scummy in a real way, which they do in my experience.

I can think of one reason why maybe that's the case, but also enchant is better than this as town.


Free bonus take: Titus might be scum here.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah I'm still voting him. I still town read him, I just didnt like that post.

Doesn't seem like it "bothers you a lot" then.

[Thestatusquo]

It does though. Why would I lie about conflicted feelings in my read as either alignment?