House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Titus]

Lol who is ignoring who Andres? I asked for your contribution and got crickets.

Also not sure how I feel about sharing a wagon with Rhea but no wagon is pure and I want DRAMA.

[Andresvmb]

Lol who is ignoring who Andres? I asked for your contribution and got crickets.

Also not sure how I feel about sharing a wagon with Rhea but no wagon is pure and I want DRAMA.

You’re Scum. I’m not sure I care about interacting with you.

[Andresvmb]

It’s entirely possible you’re Town to be fair and making some nonsense remark about how I didn’t have any remarkable contributions up to whatever point I asked but I’m concluding it’s Scum first. I just couldn’t imagine Town would really not care to express even a remote read of my slot when, you know, I’ve actually posted. But whatever.

[Andresvmb]

of course there are 10 pages the day my schedule is shit, ok let's see how far i can skim in half an hour

@andres, i'll read your full responses later because i am not able to focus right now, but this did catch my eye:

In any case, I’ll try and spend some time thinking through your slot specifically because I’m starting to get concerned that your SR is making it so that multiple players (more than a few of which I think are Town) are not even considering me for their Councils and I’m finding it rather confusing.

i was under the impression that most people fully ignored my read on you? what made you think i'm actually having an impression on like, anyone yet

We know this is inaccurate for a very straightforward reason - all you have to do is look at VPB’s reaction towards your posting to see that it had some effect on his read of my slot (softening it somewhat). So you can immediately discard the notion that it had no impact on

anyone

. VPB still concluded and insisted on me as Town, but did recognize that you read me better that one game I was Scum, which wasn’t definitive but definitely seemed to have an impact. Whether it has had any effect on anyone else, I don’t know for certain.

[Andresvmb]

I see Fire's obsession with being a master of coin to be town indicative. My argument is that scum wouldn't really want to limit themselves to a certain position as long as they make it to the council.

I can understand Rhaenyra's annoyance with everybody sus-ing her. Everybody has their own thought process and calling something scummy because it's different from your perception is either narrowminded town or scum acting like narrowminded town. It's easy to say comment A is bad and point fingers. Scum don't post stuff if they are aware the logic is flawed right?

Baltar is a jerk. Don't like him deciding the whole roster of who gets what position, feels powerwolfy.

I know Andre didn't ask me to comment on Enchant, but meh. I don't see scum choosing Enchant as their pick to run for king; Forgot who said it but Enchant is an ultimate meme choice. How many people want a good king, and how many want a meme king? There is a possibility of him going awol though.

Fire commented twice about him being scum in #1000 and #1080, i don't understand what he wanted to achieve with this.

#1097 @Rhae: Normally speaking, people don't want someone alien to them(As in incomprehensible reads) to be their king. That's the main reason people don't want someone like ou, mastina or enchant to be king. Logically i agree with this, but personally i want it to happen.

If there are any questions about specific posts that need commenting on feel free to ask.

I agree that the Scum didn’t proactively pick Enchant (if they’re actually Scum) to position aggressively for King. I get that. I would also agree that the Scum probably positioned a few of their members to be King more than others. Having said that, I don’t think any of the Scum would have decided not to position for it somewhat, and I’m sure they would take whatever they could get.

[Firebringer]

I'm cool with either based on my limited engagement.

VOTE: Junko

For the drama.

I don't think scum titus makes this post andres

[Andresvmb]

I find it really weird that Titus shared a summary of their views, and they completely skipped over my contributions as if I wasn’t even here. It’s bizarre.

@GuiltyLion, I think we need to speak more directly because I have you as King but I don’t really see you interacting with my posts all that much (though you did voice that one of my questions made sense), so I know you’re at least reading me somewhat. What do you think of say my Town core?

What do you feel you contributed? I don't recall your posts or positions, but maybe that's my ego.

I think this just annoyed me. I just don’t have the time to be running around trying to tell Titus what I feel I’ve “contributed”. And really I wasn’t trying to get recognition for making like “good” posts or anything along those lines. I wanted Titus to comment on my alignment based on what I posted. That was it.

[Andresvmb]

I'm cool with either based on my limited engagement.

VOTE: Junko

For the drama.

I don't think scum titus makes this post andres

Maybe. I’ve already stated multiple times that my ability to read Titus is not good. I don’t know what they would or wouldn’t do as Scum. Putting out a “throwaway vote” for King may be outside their Scum range (though I would not underestimate Junko), I don’t know. I certainly would agree that it’s less likely to come from Scum if that’s what you’re getting at.

[Lukewarm]

My experience with scum!titus in FGO II, which had a similar mechanic of "day 1 voting to give bonus powers to a player" was that she thought a lot about how to get that power into the hands of scum, and to not look like scum doing it. And then put a lot of work in the vote racketeering

And here she has just been... not really doing much towards influencing the king vote.

My gut says that that is a difference because she is town this time, and does not have a PT with which to be strategizing in the background with her co-conspirators.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Andante, I was responding to Drap showing back up in the thread advocating for king Junko instead of himself -- his iso starting at with 1285

Andante is their name.

Them and VP I’m pretty sure are wolves and he also spewed Junko as Town.

Before I go back and read everything in detail, can you give me a sense of who you were in 451?

Seththeking.

Okay so you should definitely be able to get a good sense for my alignment then.

What do you have me as?

I always thought you were accurate but I’m not sure I would trust you given what you’ve posted so far (about you not really reading), but I definitely want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I’ll be honest, I’ve barley been paying attention so I don’t have a read on you.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm home.

Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

I really don't want a VPB king, and I don't really trust him as town at all, so the sudden swing onto VPB is very alarming to me.

Thought you didn't want the king slot?

[Thestatusquo]

I am willing to support the following king votes:
4. Andresvmb
11. GuiltyLion
12. Firebringer
17. Junkochan

There's a couple more names on there that are on the periphery or I wouldn't be THAT unhappy about, but this is my list.

[Thestatusquo]

My experience with scum!titus in FGO II, which had a similar mechanic of "day 1 voting to give bonus powers to a player" was that she thought a lot about how to get that power into the hands of scum, and to not look like scum doing it. And then put a lot of work in the vote racketeering

And here she has just been... not really doing much towards influencing the king vote.

My gut says that that is a difference because she is town this time, and does not have a PT with which to be strategizing in the background with her co-conspirators.

I don't really like this post. I don't have any experience with luke really but I hate the kind of read hunting thats like "this is different, therefore I will treat it as an indication of different alignment."

Like fundamentally differences CAN be alignment indicative, but generally what I (and I think what most people hunting alignment) do is ask "ok, but is there compelling motivations to be different for one side or the other."

and in this case there just isn't. Why isn't town titus just as incentivized to try to get powers into the hands of town as scum titus is in getting them into the hands of scum? Like your point here that she doesn't have a pt to strategize in is nonsense in my opinion because we literally have...the game thread to do it in? Like yeah I get its not the same because of not knowing peoples alignments but like...come on.

Isn't a much more plausible reason for titus to not be caring that much is that she is genuinely disengaged and not paying that much attention?

[Firebringer]

another thing, it seems luke goes out of his way not to address scumreads.
That seems particularly odd. Like he knows people are calling him scum. He just keeps going doing what he does.

For example, i called him scum. 10 pages prior he said he had a bad vibe and scum feel on me. Now, I don't know about yall, but if the person I think is scum is now calling me scum. I am not going to just keep going and pretend that isn't happening like its not big deal. I am going to respond to it and investigate to build my case further.

Now maybe Luke doesn't scumread say me anymore, or maybe annoyed with me, who knows. theres def others that is just not addressing. Really feels like that scum strat of "ignore it and continue to pretend to scumhunt so people change their mind". Which is usually good strategy but here it feels pretty glaring that it is what is going on

[Lukewarm]

My experience with scum!titus in FGO II, which had a similar mechanic of "day 1 voting to give bonus powers to a player" was that she thought a lot about how to get that power into the hands of scum, and to not look like scum doing it. And then put a lot of work in the vote racketeering

And here she has just been... not really doing much towards influencing the king vote.

My gut says that that is a difference because she is town this time, and does not have a PT with which to be strategizing in the background with her co-conspirators.

I don't really like this post. I don't have any experience with luke really but I hate the kind of read hunting thats like "this is different, therefore I will treat it as an indication of different alignment."

Like fundamentally differences CAN be alignment indicative, but generally what I (and I think what most people hunting alignment) do is ask

"ok, but is there compelling motivations to be different for one side or the other."

and in this case there just isn't.

Why isn't town titus just as incentivized to try to get powers into the hands of town as scum titus is in getting them into the hands of scum?

Like your point here that she doesn't have a pt to strategize in is nonsense

in my opinion because we literally have...the game thread to do it in? Like yeah I get its not the same because of not knowing peoples alignments but like...come on.

Isn't a much more plausible reason for titus to not be caring that much is that she is genuinely disengaged and not paying that much attention?

I do think that there are fundamental differences from one side to the other.

Also, the line about the PT was not even a point I was making ABOUT being in a PT, as much as a flavorful way of saying it had not been planned in advance behind the scenes.

Like, the most distilled way I can think to reword my point here would be:

She does not seem to be actively working towards a pre-thought out agenda. And, based on my experience with scum!Titus (in a very similar situation) I would expect her to be actively working towards a pre-thought out agenda if she were scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok but that point is no remotely responsive to my critique. Why would she be working towards an agenda as scum but not as town? Why do you think town players don't have an agenda? I don't believe that someone who has played for more than 30 seconds of mafia would think that.

Why do you think "Scum player would try to make good for scum things happen but town player wouldn't try to make good for town things happen in the same circumstances" is a logically coherent position?

[Lukewarm]

another thing, it seems luke goes out of his way not to address scumreads.
That seems particularly odd. Like he knows people are calling him scum. He just keeps going doing what he does.

The way it has felt like I have spent too much time responding to scum reads this game leaves me unsure what even to say in response to this lol.

As for you in particular, you basically fell off my radar as my focus narrowed in on who I wanted to be king and my scum read of GL exploded.

[Lukewarm]

Ok but that point is no remotely responsive to my critique. Why would she be working towards an agenda as scum but not as town? Why do you think town players don't have an agenda? I don't believe that someone who has played for more than 30 seconds of mafia would think that.

Why do you think "Scum player would try to make good for scum things happen but town player wouldn't try to make good for town things happen in the same circumstances" is a logically coherent position?

That is not my position at all, so not planning to defend the argument that you are putting there.

If "I don't think that scum!Titus would approach the king making process this way" supported by "I have seen the way scum!Titus approached a similar mechanic" is not compelling to you, then so be it I guess.

Convincing you that she is town is not exactly my biggest concern, and if you are going to scum read me for not liking the way I think about reads, then just get in line I guess.

[Firebringer]

im off your radar huh

Lukewarm very scummy.
Would still have him on the council though. Though i don't think master of ships is a position anymore

No fuck that, I don't even want on the council.

I want to be off council, and then cop checked night 1.

And once I am clear, we kill GL.

[Lukewarm]

im off your radar huh

yes

[Thestatusquo]

What?

Literally you are arguing that scum titus would be trying to enact her agenda on who gets to be king and therefore she is town.

In order for that to be a logical statement you would have to also be asserting that the town titus would not be doing this, otherwise there is no difference?

My assertion is that an engaged titus would be doing this as either alignment, and I think this is pretty obviously true.

I agree she is not doing this, but until you can express why you think she wouldn't be doing it as town, its a pretty nonsensical reason to town read someone, bordering on TMI.

It's so surface level to pick out a difference in two worlds and then jump right to alignment related reasons for that difference without considering whether that difference is actually explained by alignment.

And here it's just clearly not?

[Firebringer]

feeling gaslight here.
but lets pretend i am off ur radar for a moment.

Lets also pretend for sake of argument u have been addressing so many peoples scumreads of u. (i didn't do an iso of u but i can tell u from my memory and ive read almost every page twice, i don't think u addressed more than one person)

if i feel of ur scum vibe radar how did that happen, because i assume ur at null if thats the case. why do i not feel ur trying to sort me in this moment if ur at null becomes a second question.

[Lukewarm]

im off your radar huh

Lukewarm very scummy.
Would still have him on the council though. Though i don't think master of ships is a position anymore

No fuck that, I don't even want on the council.

I want to be off council, and then cop checked night 1.

And once I am clear, we kill GL.

Even in this very post, despite it being in response to something you said, you can clearly see that my focus at the time was not on you and was in fact on GL.

Like, this is exactly what I was saying, but you are presenting it like it is a gotcha

[Lukewarm]

Jesus this is frustrating, and almost feels not worth it.

[Firebringer]

okay i have to admit i skimmed. but i didn't find where u were addressing other people scumreading u here....maybe im slow. Always a possibility.

Anyways one thing crossed my mind as i went through the skim, i don't see an opinion on shea. Maybe you can elaborate ur position there because fmpov if i were u, i would be using this engagement with him to get a read if u don't have one. Feels like you have unspoken read there by way u handle this interaction.

another thing is i find it strange and I def don't think this is how u play but there was a lack of questions from u at players. You explained and gave plenty of thoughts on posts but i don't think i could find a question to get insight into a player once. Could have missed them but i was like "wait where are questions if he is sorting players".

so what r ur reads on me and shea?