House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

What? Master of coin was revealed in post 675. VP made that post a full 500 posts after that?

[UNOwen]

and second because scum has no reason to play that way even if you think all three of these wagons are fundamentally scum driven. Like which scum were behind the push to switch from a leading VPB wagon to a leading Junko wagon? Why would the mafia team do that?

I didn't read the whole argument, this point is also good and agreeable.

[Firebringer]

i have issues trusting shea enough for him to be king. I have a hard time believing his points about that he actually would have wanted me to be king and i go back and forth if thats a deliberate troll tactic. I don't imagine a world he ever wanted me king.

fine with council position not king. ALthough i don't think its that big of a deal if he becomes king. Personally im like 60% town and 40% paranoid. There certain things he pushes and questions that just doesn't feel completely right too. Can't pin my finger on it.

@mastina no one wants andante town king because i don't think they like her reads and she will pick council. Not to mention she intends to just plug junkochan as soon as she can. She might say she isn't a loose cannon, but she is going to just fire shot someone when she can if king. If you townread junko u should realize that instead of being dogmatic.

Also been feeling mastina/titus, and more so titus. Every read she gives i almost want to go "Yeah probably opposite of that". Idk what she doing. Mastina townreading luke makes me go "good im on the right track".

[mastina]

does anyone have a mastina town game I can read thats fairly recent? It's been a while.

Well, the last year has been just these games, so for completed town games, you've got:

2/3rds of Triplicate*,
UPick a Normal,
Ginngie's UPick,
(These three are both the oldest and minis, so less relevant)
(*third was SK so I was basically town across the board but not pure town)

Manatee's Pokemon Large,
TFT UPick (altho I died early there and was using a gimmick for fun),
And Datisi's Cafe.

Tbh only the Datisi's Cafe game is relevant to me as I am now because the last two months have had an incredibly notable rl shift in me, due to rl stressors.
And, notably, the largest stressor--a hell week of rl shit--happened after all of that and has no completed games to show it, in spite of that one single hell week having left a huge mark on me now. (That single hell week made me want to stop playing as mastina. Just outright give up. But I can't point to any completed games because that was too recent an event, having happened during the time Datisi's Cafe had just ended. Literally the day after Datisi's Cafe ended, if I recall correctly. Which you can kinda sorta maybe see from my lack of posting in Datisi's Cafe.)

I can maybe point you to older towngames where I had similar things tho. (Finding the first post-Doubles-game I was able to play due to my game ban would probably be a good one, but I'd need to track down what that was. And, yes, that's apt; my rl shit stressors are bad enough that this is a pre-Doubles to post-Doubles shift in play.)

[mastina]

What? Master of coin was revealed in post 675. VP made that post a full 500 posts after that?

Yes, but he is arguing that Firebringer was scum for pushing for master of coin, ignoring how master of coin was revealed IN post 675, not post 0.

That's why it's a scumslip.

Town would know that it was revealed in post 675, and thus, that Firebringer pushing for it before then was not a scumslip.

Scum, if they have access to that information, wouldn't think about the 675 reveal, they'd be more likely to just think about it having been there from the getgo because they had that info from the getgo. And revealed that perspective slip by pushing the idea Firebringer pushed for master of coin from the getgo.

[Thestatusquo]

i have issues trusting shea enough for him to be king. I have a hard time believing his points about that he actually would have wanted me to be king and i go back and forth if thats a deliberate troll tactic. I don't imagine a world he ever wanted me king.

fine with council position not king. ALthough i don't think its that big of a deal if he becomes king. Personally im like 60% town and 40% paranoid. There certain things he pushes and questions that just doesn't feel completely right too. Can't pin my finger on it.

@mastina no one wants andante town king because i don't think they like her reads and she will pick council. Not to mention she intends to just plug junkochan as soon as she can. She might say she isn't a loose cannon, but she is going to just fire shot someone when she can if king. If you townread junko u should realize that instead of being dogmatic.

Also been feeling mastina/titus, and more so titus. Every read she gives i almost want to go "Yeah probably opposite of that". Idk what she doing. Mastina townreading luke makes me go "good im on the right track".

I don't know what to tell you, but if I'm king you'll be on the council cuz I'm thinking you're town. I have no problem with you being king for the same reason.

[Firebringer]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that whoever becomes king needs to put their scumread in position of prince?
If kingsguard revolts we need to clear that prince and they have to kill both players. So if kingsguard becomes corrupt they have to kill one of their own to get to the king. I don't think anyone pointed this out because people missed between lines of kingsguard revolt, and BOTH king/prince die if this happens. They can't choose one or another.

@mastina i think vp baltar mixed the times of when coin was revealed to when i advocated. I don't think thats a scum slip by any stretch. Its also false assumption to just assume that scum already knew all the roles.

[Dwlee99]

Dear GuiltyLion, I wrote you but you still ain't callin'

[JunkoChan]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that whoever becomes king needs to put their scumread in position of prince?
If kingsguard revolts we need to clear that prince and they have to kill both players. So if kingsguard becomes corrupt they have to kill one of their own to get to the king. I don't think anyone pointed this out because people missed between lines of kingsguard revolt, and BOTH king/prince die if this happens. They can't choose one or another.

@mastina i think vp baltar mixed the times of when coin was revealed to when i advocated. I don't think thats a scum slip by any stretch. Its also false assumption to just assume that scum already knew all the roles.

If 50% or more Kingsguard Members decide to overthrow the King -

they may murder him at night and install his chosen successor onto the throne

.

If all Kingsguard Members agree to overthrow the Monarchy -

they may murder him and his successor

. The Small Council will be role blocked from committing any actions on this night. New elections will be held on the following day.


Call me stupid, but I think this means they can choose not to kill the heir

[mastina]

Scenario 2: My reads are fucked up and scum think I would take town down a bad path

This scenario means we might benefit more from Mastina and LLD having some power.

Maybe Junko, but ugh I am unlikely to want that

. I'm more inclined to trust mastina/LLD in some type of coalition govt.

Oh hey would you look at that!

Proof of concept for me finding scum advocating for Junko to be King, in spite of having not voted there!

Junkochan [7]:

Firebringer, ProfessorDrapion, Junkochan, Rhaenyra, Enchant, PenguinPower, Unowen

GuiltyLion asked the fallacious-as-fuck "how could scum influence this when by your own reads they aren't voting there?", well guess what?

I found the fucking start of the push for Junko to be King, and it came from someone not voting Junko!

Almost as if votes don't tell the whole story of what kinds of influence scum can have.

Almost like so much as a single sentence from scum can set momentum towards an outcome they want!

Y'know.

The thing I was arguing and which GuiltyLion tried to say was wrong.

[ProfessorDrapion]

I still think Junko is the good call I haven’t looked at the duo guy yet to see his Playstyle or not.

[JunkoChan]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that whoever becomes king needs to put their scumread in position of prince?
If kingsguard revolts we need to clear that prince and they have to kill both players. So if kingsguard becomes corrupt they have to kill one of their own to get to the king. I don't think anyone pointed this out because people missed between lines of kingsguard revolt, and BOTH king/prince die if this happens. They can't choose one or another.

@mastina i think vp baltar mixed the times of when coin was revealed to when i advocated. I don't think thats a scum slip by any stretch. Its also false assumption to just assume that scum already knew all the roles.

If 50% or more Kingsguard Members decide to overthrow the King -

they may murder him at night and install his chosen successor onto the throne

.

If all Kingsguard Members agree to overthrow the Monarchy -

they may murder him and his successor

. The Small Council will be role blocked from committing any actions on this night. New elections will be held on the following day.


Call me stupid, but I think this means they can choose not to kill the heir

and that they can't kill the heir if the decision is not unanimous

[ProfessorDrapion]

Statusquo my bad there is no Duo there.

[Firebringer]

Call me stupid, but I think this means they can choose not to kill the heir

i had to reread the pm pooky sent because im stupid too.
so yeah ur right if they all vote yes its both if 50% its just king. So takeover by scum that pushes it to near control could just kill king and put the prince in charge. Nvm im dumb

[VP Baltar]

he is arguing that Firebringer was scum for pushing for master of coin

No, I was not. I'm slightly annoyed I have to waste a post explaining this, but clearly you're having a hard time understanding things that seem pretty self explanatory.

Char said scum wouldn't lock themselves into a spot like master of coin. I said, well master of coin can control the other power roles, so definitely seems to have some scum benefit.

I have zero clue if Firebringer knew this, but I wasn't even arguing he did. Literally all the roles have some benefit to scum if possessed by them, therefore the argument that scum wouldn't want to be locked into a role doesn't make a lot of sense from a general perspective.

[JunkoChan]

Scenario 2: My reads are fucked up and scum think I would take town down a bad path

This scenario means we might benefit more from Mastina and LLD having some power.

Maybe Junko, but ugh I am unlikely to want that

. I'm more inclined to trust mastina/LLD in some type of coalition govt.

Oh hey would you look at that!

Proof of concept for me finding scum advocating for Junko to be King, in spite of having not voted there!

Junkochan [7]:

Firebringer, ProfessorDrapion, Junkochan, Rhaenyra, Enchant, PenguinPower, Unowen

GuiltyLion asked the fallacious-as-fuck "how could scum influence this when by your own reads they aren't voting there?", well guess what?

I found the fucking start of the push for Junko to be King, and it came from someone not voting Junko!

Almost as if votes don't tell the whole story of what kinds of influence scum can have.

Almost like so much as a single sentence from scum can set momentum towards an outcome they want!

Y'know.

The thing I was arguing and which GuiltyLion tried to say was wrong.

so you are telling me that my antagonic wagon was created by the guy who directly benefits from me not even having a wagon?

ok.

[Firebringer]

wait now mastina is arguing that vpb is the one who got the junko wagon going.
what timeline am i even in. That is def not how that went down.

[Firebringer]

@JunkoChan

Put me on Council and Town Auto Wins.


Me want ability, me take down wolves with that ability.

If I'm queen I hereby promise that I shall grant you your wish

(there's no way this goes through btw but I like your energy)

VOTE: Junko

This was def the trigger for it all happening in my eyes. Junko is like no way this happens which gets everyone to be like "lol okay lets do it" and then joins.

[mastina]

I have limited history with her, and it was terrible. Based on that her posts right now weird me out.

(It was the experience you had with me which was terrible, that is why I am

not being that

in THIS game. It wasn't terrible just for you. I've no fucking desire to ever be that again. I was miserable, and I don't want to be miserable in literally every game I play. I needed to change, so...I did. Or, well, am trying to. Old habits die hard and the GuiltyLion exchange is risking sucking me back in.)

There is no town motivation for this post.

Yo Luke, how freaked out are you that I actually think that you are both,
-Town,
-And accurate on your reads?



(Because I actually think you are.)

Btw 1216 is pretty clearly scum trying to look town by taking stances that are surface-level pro-town but is not actually town. It's the post of a skilled scum player making efforts to be town, but not being actual town.

[mastina]

Char said scum wouldn't lock themselves into a spot like master of coin. I said, well master of coin can control the other power roles, so definitely seems to have some scum benefit.

And my point is that is still a scumslip, because the knowledge of what master of coin did was not in the game thread at the beginning of the game.
In fact,

at the beginning of the game, we didn't know there was a master of coin position.

Yet alone, that a master of coin would be a power role.
Yet alone, what that power role was.

Firebringer has been advocating for it since the very beginning--before we knew it was in the game, before we knew it was a power role, and before we knew the details of the power role.

You arguing that Firebringer did that as scum,
Is itself a scumslip because Firebringer wouldn't know as town those details;
You thinking that a scum player would,
Is itself a scumslip by being a perspective slip of what scum would know.

[mastina]

so you are telling me that my antagonic wagon was created by the guy who directly benefits from me not even having a wagon?

Again, five scum in the game, working as a team--not one.

A scum player can push something that doesn't benefit

them specifically

, if they believe it will benefit

their team

as a whole

.

VP planting the idea of a Junko wagon is almost certainly him having done just that.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Hmm.
I don’t dislike the Status wagon.
I still think Junko fits the role of which I’m looking for better. (Player that will not have manipulative thread control as wolf.)

Still think VP can be a wolf especially with Andate.

The main thing I care about is being able to have an ability, I don’t like Vanilla.
Me want to be able to do something!
Let me hurt the wolves!

[Firebringer]

Char said scum wouldn't lock themselves into a spot like master of coin. I said, well master of coin can control the other power roles, so definitely seems to have some scum benefit.

And my point is that is still a scumslip, because the knowledge of what master of coin did was not in the game thread at the beginning of the game.
In fact,

at the beginning of the game, we didn't know there was a master of coin position.

Yet alone, that a master of coin would be a power role.
Yet alone, what that power role was.

Firebringer has been advocating for it since the very beginning--before we knew it was in the game, before we knew it was a power role, and before we knew the details of the power role.

You arguing that Firebringer did that as scum,
Is itself a scumslip because Firebringer wouldn't know as town those details;
You thinking that a scum player would,
Is itself a scumslip by being a perspective slip of what scum would know.

VPB has already said in the post ur quoting that he wasn't saying I knew what PR existed. Or that even scum knew what PR/positions existed. He was saying scum would want a position on council period so the townread on me for wanting master of coin doesn't make sense because scum would want the position whether they knew what it does or not.

This has been spelled out.

[mastina]

at the beginning of the game, we didn't know there was a master of coin position.

Proof:

Also willing to vote anyone who names me the warden of south and master of coin

Search for 'master' on the first page of the game.

This is the only result.

The position master of coin wasn't mentioned by Pooky until 675.

That was the post explaining it, but search Pooky's iso. 675 was the first.

Whereas Firebringer said it from the very first page of the game.

So VP Baltar arguing that Firebringer wanted the master of coin position as scum,
Is a scumslip.

[mastina]

VPB has already said in the post ur quoting that he wasn't saying I knew what PR existed. Or that even scum knew what PR/positions existed.

He was saying scum would want a position on council period

so the townread on me for wanting master of coin doesn't make sense because scum would want the position whether they knew what it does or not.
This has been spelled out.

And I'm saying that

town didn't know there WAS a master of coin position at all

.

You weren't arguing to be on the council.

You were arguing to be master of coin.

Firebringer wasn't arguing to be on the council as the master of coin position; Firebringer was arguing to be master of coin

.

Because

town didn't know "master of coin" was an actual council position on 675

, that means that

VP Baltar thinking Firebringer's advocating could be scum wanting to be on the council, is a perspective slip

.