House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

What words did I twist? Name them?

[Firebringer]

GL theres no way im going to be paranoid of Shea in this game.
He gave me the power to control who acts or not in the PR game.
It would have to mean he stacked the council with scum to control the PRs, he doesn't fear any of the PRs, or thinks im so bad that me being in this position actually helps his alignment out the most (i guess this last one might be pretty possible ngl)

I really think if ur living in a world where u think Shea is scum. You would need to really access his council picks more than u are. Like I think u should suspect me of being scum if u think shea is scum.

[GuiltyLion]

No. I have no faith that you or half the other players will take it seriously at this point and it feels like a waste of effort, at least at the moment. I've said at least enough to make my view of the game fairly clear if people care to open their ears to it after they know I'm trustworthy

[Thestatusquo]

It's funny because this exchange is actually the moment where I crossed over from pretty sure you're scum to absolutely sure you're scum. You're not even trying to engage in good faith here.

When did dwlee go from a pressure a lurker good default lim to "dwlee is scum sheep me when I'm dead?"

Why didn't you even mention junko, the person you've been saying is scum and came into the thread saying was scum because of the night kill?

Did you forget your reads? What words am I twisting?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think town GL would be scum reading me here, either. I think town GL would still be town reading me because my play makes no sense coming from scum yesterday, especially in a world where he actually thinks dwlee is scum instead of just "a good lim" as he just changed to.

So in his world he thinks I, as king, the most powerful role in the game, shoot a townie to save dwlee, a lim bait lurker slot who is my scum partner? What? I do not believe you think I did that. I do not believe town guilty lion thinks there is a world where Dwlee and I are scum together. It's literally gibberish.

[GuiltyLion]

You're inventing contradictions that aren't there. I feel Dwlee is simultaneously a lurker default that has good odds of being scum. I'm never going to be like "HELL YEAH SHEA 100% ABSOLUTELY SCUM WE GOT THEM" but when I survey the players in the game and how surprised I would be to see them flip scum Dwlee ranks p much at the bottom on that list.

As I said in my first posts of the day, I waffle on Junko, from a gamestate POV I feel like she's scum but I don't think she's scum with you because I don't think your interactions are forced or agenda based, so I am pingponging on whether she pockets you and you're falling for it or you're scum and I goofed on finding the scum king wagon because it was actually yours

You're going to try to say this is some inconsistency or gotcha but it's an honest reflection of my feelings about the game and they're messy and uncertain because I am uninformed

[GuiltyLion]

because my play makes no sense coming from scum yesterday, especially in a world where he actually thinks dwlee is scum instead of just "a good lim" as he just changed to.

It doesn't make sense coming from town either that's my issue with it. I fundamentally do not believe your Dwlee read or that you believe in it so strongly

[Firebringer]

this feels like trying to win an argument

[Thestatusquo]

The problem is that your feelings aren't actually all that messy or uncertain.

[GuiltyLion]

you're reacting as I just predicted you would.

Please yall just reread these posts when you see my wagon and how it was built. Take me seriously and don't let anyone sell you on a narrative that I was just bad and scumsiding or unreadable this game. Datisi found me. VPB found me.

[Enchant]

So in his world he thinks I, as king, the most powerful role in the game

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[Thestatusquo]

its not easy to predict reactions when you know your points are flawed.

Datisi "found you?" So did VPB? Neither of those roles are flipped, why have you had them as town since literally 1 second into the game and have made actual zero efforts to reevaluate them despite many people thinking both had scummy points throughout the game?

[GuiltyLion]

fireisred dropped some real wisdom last game - you don't find scum this game by trying to find people who are playing in a way that makes sense for scum, or find town doing stuff that "makes no sense for scum". You find scum when you find play and a thought process that doesn't make sense from town. And that's what Sheas Dwlee townread and execution to say feels like to me.

[GuiltyLion]

WHY HAVE YOU FOUND DWLEE TOWN SINCE LIKE PAGE 1 OF THIS GAME lmao

[Thestatusquo]

so, literally every read you've had this game?

[Thestatusquo]

I very clearly explained my dwlee read is based on the wagon formation, lack of counter wagons, and my experience that slots that look like this and react like this flip town way more often then scum.

I know you know this, because you have specifically asked me about it three times, so saying its from page one of the game is at best a deliberate misrep.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm done Shea, you win. You can keep twisting and twisting. I'm green, my words will eventually be proven pure, I'm not gonna get baited into it again tonight. See ya tomorrow

[Thestatusquo]

I'm twisting, but you're the one who just said a read that sprung from the wagon, and was explained to you multiple times, was from page 1. Interesting.

[mastina]

(Still not here for real, am actually coughing so am likely sick and need sleep, but:
VOTE: GuiltyLion
I see GL votes, I join.)

[Thestatusquo]

Like I understand you disagree with my read, but saying I don't have reasons for it and they didn't happen in real time as the wagon happened is just not credible. That's definitely not what happened.

[Thestatusquo]

WHY HAVE YOU FOUND DWLEE TOWN SINCE LIKE PAGE 1 OF THIS GAME lmao

Tu quoque, by the way. Since i know you're a big philosophy guy.

[GuiltyLion]

It's not that you haven't stated your reasons for it, it's that I fail to understand and believe you on a human level that you think that those reasons are good. When I ask "why have you townread Dwlee all game", it's not an ask for you to reference posts where you gave the reasons you have. It's a cry for help understanding why it feels like you're dead set on a townread to the point you're building your entire gamestate views around, on a player who looks so likely to be scum to me

[Thestatusquo]

It's not that you haven't stated your reasons for it, it's that I fail to understand and believe you on a human level that you think that those reasons are good. When I ask "why have you townread Dwlee all game", it's not an ask for you to reference posts where you gave the reasons you have. It's a cry for help understanding why it feels like you're dead set on a townread to the point you're building your entire gamestate views around, on a player who looks so likely to be scum to me

This is not responsive to my point, which wasn't about the read itself, but rather that you trying to claim its since day 1 as a cheap to quoque falacy which is at best irrelevant to your reads and at worst deliberate misdirection, but its especially bad when you know that's not the case.

All of this is true even if you disagree with it. As I said, I understand not agreeing with it. But the way you've approached that disagreement is not townie.

[GuiltyLion]

Whatever you need to say to sell your read to the thread. You aren't gonna be able to convince me that my play isn't townie

I'm done for real, night yall

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not a big believer in slips but I feel the need to point out that calling my positions reads implies that you know I'm town.