Newbie 656 Game Over!

[Fenchurch]

Thanks Artem. I don't think anything lifeofpie has said today can make up for his actions yesterday, but it felt a bit like I was launching a one-woman assault.

I'm happy with my vote, but I think we need to hear from thegeckoj and Petunho before we hammer.

We don't have a choice, since one of them is necessary to cast a lynch vote. If it looks like we're gonna wait until the 9th when Petunho returns, then I'll just set my brain in gear for that. Having made up my mind already, my instincts are to want to get it over with, but I can't force anyone else to rush.

[Fenchurch]

Bump. RandomGem, thegeckoj, comments please? Even if you are planning to wait until Petunho gets back before making a decision, that doesn't mean you should just stop posting until then. As for me, I've gotten over my impulse to get the game over with, so I'm okay about waiting now, but I would still like to discuss things whilst we're waiting. Gosh, I wonder if Petunho is going to be aghast at the fact that I was ready to quicklynch just two days into Day 2.

I re-read page 18 and noticed this again, which my previous response didn't fully cover:

would life of pie kept his vote on his scum buddie? that is a pretty dangerous game. i am still convinced petunho is scum per day one reasons. but not ready to vote just yet.

thegeckoj, it is common enough, when one mafia is looking scummy or going down, for the other(s) to vote for them. Obviously they would prefer not to, because the more mafia left alive the better chance their chances of winning (by steering the vote, or just surviving for long enough). But there are still times when it is useful for them to vote each other, in order to sever connections and look more townie. See the wikipedia page on bussing. Unfortunately for lifeofpie, his action during the events of page 17 make it look suspiciously like this is what he was doing.

NabNab: could you post in the queue to try and get us a replacement for chapter 5?

It looks this game has got another couple of weeks in it at least, even if we do lynch right today, so if someone joins soon then it wouldn't be a total waste of their time. And if we don't lynch right, then we'll be missing a probably-townie player who could help us.

I swear, after this game is over, I plan on playing as nothing but a replacement. I think there's been barely a week in this game when we haven't down by a player or two, and I wouldn't wish these difficulties on anyone else.

[lifeofpie]

Yes, it does. And the sudden change of mind from no quicklynch to lynch is too. Sounds great.
Oh, well.
Can we spur some kind of discussion? Everything I say is being read biasdly (how do you spell that?) so there's no way I'm going to be able to start one.
And yes, I changed my mind. Se la vie.
I didn't really think that think was actively lurking because I was having problems at the time in real life. This lead me to believe that he just didn't have time to post thoughts. Also, I still don't believe it now, because if he was active, wouldn't he have tried to defend himself?

[lifeofpie]

Do most noob games have inactivity problems?

[thegeckoj]

would life of pie kept his vote on his scum buddie? that is a pretty dangerous game. i am still convinced petunho is scum per day one reasons. but not ready to vote just yet.

thegeckoj, it is common enough, when one mafia is looking scummy or going down, for the other(s) to vote for them. Obviously they would prefer not to, because the more mafia left alive the better chance their chances of winning (by steering the vote, or just surviving for long enough). But there are still times when it is useful for them to vote each other, in order to sever connections and look more townie. See the wikipedia page on bussing. Unfortunately for lifeofpie, his action during the events of page 17 make it look suspiciously like this is what he was doing.

thanks for the info Fen. that does make a ton of sense especially if you are becoming fed up with your partner, its a win-win situation, get rid of the dead wait and make yourself look as innocent as possible.

i do agree that lifeofpie made some poor choices that definitely make him out to be scummy. i will, exactly as you said, hold out on my vote until petunho returns to see what he has to say.

for now

fos: lifeofpie

[NabakovNabakov]

I am extremely sorry about being away for so long.

Vote Count as of Post 454

lifeofpie (3)

RandomGem, Artem, Fenchurch

Not Voting (4)

lifefopie, Chapter 5, Petunho, thegeckoj

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch

Posted the replacement request for Chapter 5. I had meant to take care of that over the night, but it slipped my mind.

[lifeofpie]

np, I'm not in a hurry

[RandomGem]

I am very convinced that lifeofpie is scum. His first post of this day especially caught my attention... like telling us what scum (he) thought for us?

[Fenchurch]

Still 5 days until Petunho is due back; what to talk about in that time? I'm not sure what more to say on lifeofpie, but I am reluctant to start speculating on anyone else that might be scummy, since lifeofpie could use that to divert attention away from himself. But:

lifeofpie, given that you are a likely lynch for today, this could be your opportunity to look back through the thread and identify who you think is most scummy, and preferably provide some evidence to back it up. It may not help you today, but if you flip town, we will be able to look back at your opinions and know they are, at the very least, unbiased.

I know you have already pointed towards me, and perhaps Artem, in an earlier post, and if that remains your opinion, I would still ask for you to look for the evidence to back it up.

[Petunho]

Back from vacation. Thailand is niiiice! Gonna catch up, gonna post tomorrow.

-Petunho

[Fenchurch]

Welcome back Petunho, glad you enjoyed it

As you will see, we've spent a lot of the time just waiting for you to come back, so you won't have much to read. Looking forward to your comments, and perhaps then something from the others as well - the complete lack of activity last week worried me a bit, but hopefully everyone still has this game on their watchlists.

[RandomGem]

Yeah, I've been here, but I was exceptionally busy last week. Good thing nothing really happened!

[RandomGem]

All I can say right now: OMG.
Not what I was expecting at all.
On the lynch, I mean.

The nightkill is an intelligent one, I believe that they are removing our ICs to make us with less support.

I know I've been bashing this first post of Day 2 already, but seriously, this just screams scum at me.

Perhaps it's just the commenting on scum's kill. Also, the "OMG" on the lynch cardflip also seems like a very transparent lie to me.

[Petunho]

Sorry to keep you waiting so long.

First thing: C5 is townie. We had a lynch so C5 cannot be scum.

Second thing: Why isn't lifeofpie lynched yet?

It has been up to me, C5 or thegeckoj to lynch him. I haven't had the chance, C5 isn't here so it has been up to thegeckoj.

thegeckoj: Why haven't you lynched lifeofpie?

I don't like that people are blindly rushing into a lynch before looking back for what have happened. I would strongly that everybody even looks at the votings and especially the one L-1 situation we had and the situation that lead to thinktanks lynching. Look who voted in which situation, what kind of reasons he gave for it. And remember C5 and ShadowLurker are confirmed townies and thinktank is the scum. Who is the second one? Look for the scumbuddy!

Thinktank and XXX

We have two options either lifeofpie is the scum or he's not.

Like Fenchurch said: lifeofpie give us your suspicions and opinions about players, 'cause if you are lynched the info you are giving us now is the most important one in the next day if turn out to be townie.

I'm gonna dig into the game more closely again tomorrow with fresh brains and I hope thegeckoj answers my question and everybody takes the time to even think about:

"Hmm what if that guy is the scum, would he/she acted/voted that way...hmmm oh yes!"

Happy hunting everybody and get out of the tube you all are in!

[Fenchurch]

Petunho, I have already looked back through the pages surrounding thinktank's lynch, and I have voting records for all of the previous day, and I can't see a compelling case against anyone except lifeofpie. Maybe I'm tunneling, which is partly why I asked lifeofpie to post more about his accusations - if he is town, then he is the only one who knows that he's innocent, and therefore in the best position to spot a slip in someone else.

The fact that lifeofpie (who normally posts quite regularly) has taken a week and still not answered my question about his current accusations, also implies to me that he is not so dedicated to a town win. If I were in his position, as scum, I imagine I would find it hard to scour through pages of junk posts in order to build a false-case, that I know won't be worth anything because as soon as I were lynched the game would be done!

Petunho, I realise we haven't posted a lot on Day 2, but at the same time, this isn't a random wagon. I think it has a good amount of reasoning behind it, and - unless your re-read comes up with an argument why this case is weak, or someone else is more suspect - I don't have a problem with you or thegeckoj casting a hammer.

Also, I feel bad because it is lifeofpie's birthday in three days.. sorry that we are trying to lynch you!

Also, I agree with RandomGem's assessment on the first Day 2 post.

[lifeofpie]

Thank you for noticing about my B-day.
Lynching me isn't honestly going to bother me that much, as long as you take out the remaining scum.
It's strange, it seems the entire forum is going slowly, not just this game.
I don't really post as regularly as I feel I could.

Petunho, I don't believe you can ask gecko why he isn't hammering but not having voted yourself.
Is there something I'm missing here?

Random: a mafia lynch on D1 is rare. Sorry if my feelings expressed that I was too surprised. Alos, is it necessary to repeat yourself? I mean, one post right after another to expand on what you just said makes sense. (I'm talking about post 462 and 457) However, three days apart and a post in between doesn't really make sense to me.

[quote=petunho]We had a lynch so C5 cannot be scum.[/quote]
This confuses me. What exactly does this mean?

Scumlist:
Gecko: doesn't vote now but voted quickly before? screams to me like someone trying to not look scum.
Petunho: I don't believe you can ask gecko why he isn't hammering but not having voted yourself. This kinda screams hypocrite at me. This may also be somewhat OMGUS

Everyone else:
Fenchurch is kinda rising then falling again. makes me hesitant to attack her.
Artem: plays cooly, I can't get much of a read
C5: likely to be town
random: I had town read before, now I'm kinda neutral.

Also, I have one last defense that I am not eager to use, as it is WIFOM. I have decided that I'll face the punishment.
IF I WAS SCUM, I would not have been so obviously dumb as to go back on my opinion. I think. Honestly, I've never played scum in a mafia game.

[lifeofpie]

Thanks Artem. I don't think anything lifeofpie has said today can make up for his actions yesterday, but it felt a bit like I was launching a one-woman assault.

You could be the next Lara Croft.

[Petunho]

Petunho, I don't believe you can ask gecko why he isn't hammering but not having voted yourself.
Is there something I'm missing here?

Yes. Thegeckoj has been around for the time I was V/LA, he had the opportunity to lynch during the two weeks and I didn't. I want to know the reason why hasn't he lynched you.

We had a lynch so C5 cannot be scum.

This confuses me. What exactly does this mean?

1) We had one scum when we went to night.
2) C5 hasn't responded for his prods and NabNab The Mod has been looking for replacement for him before we went to night.
3) We had a night kill committed by the scum.
=>C5 hasn't been around to post the night action to the mod, so he cannot be the scum because we had a night kill. Clear enough?

[Petunho]

Okay! I have been going trough the game reading it trough and I think I have quite clear picture in my mind about who's in which side.

My vision at the moment about the alignments:

Scum #X: lifeofpie - My post #424 is still valid and looking back the situation it really seems that, lifeofpie activated when he notices wagon against thinktank started to take speed. He tried to divert the suspicion on other suspects and then when he noticed the situation was hopeless he made a U-turn and hanged his buddy. This pattern really screams Scum! He is my number one suspect at the moment and I'm ready to give the final vote. But first I want answer for my question to thegeckoj:

Why didn't you hammer lifeofpie when I was V/LA?

Scum #X: thegeckoj - Gave the L-1 vote immediately when he replaced to the game. Still not fan of that vote. Tried to push all the way the quicklynch and took the strategy to openly admit he's bored with the game and everybody swallowed that explanation. I still don't buy it and the immediate L-1 still haunts in my mind.

Then the game moved on and pressure went on thinktank. Now thegeckoj has the oportunity to end the day but he doesn't do that. Why? He's not as willing to straigt lynch his scumbuddy. He made suggestion that he might but lifeofpie got first. (BTW I noticed that between Fenchurch L-1 and lifeofpies hammer, there is just 26 hours between them.)

The game moved on the second day and soon lifeofpie gets targeted. Thegeckoj is also now implying to lynch but does not lynch.

Why so sudden change of mind about quick lynches?

----------------

All other players come far behind these two. My reading of them gives me strong pro-town vibe and their actions when knowing thinkthank=scum and SL =town is quite logical. Certain situations during this game implies strongly that these three (+C5) are on the town side.

This said, waiting for thegeckoj's answer.

[Fenchurch]

We had a lynch so C5 cannot be scum.

This confuses me. What exactly does this mean?

1) We had one scum when we went to night.
2) C5 hasn't responded for his prods and NabNab The Mod has been looking for replacement for him before we went to night.
3) We had a night kill committed by the scum.
=>C5 hasn't been around to post the night action to the mod, so he cannot be the scum because we had a night kill. Clear enough?

I think the confusion was that you said "lynch" when you meant "night kill".

The more days we go by without posts, the harder I'm finding it to maintain interest in the game. Petunho, I'm not clear why it is important to know why thegeckoj hasn't lynched lifeofpie, since there are no scumbuddy alliances any more. In his own words.

i do agree that lifeofpie made some poor choices that definitely make him out to be scummy. i will, exactly as you said, hold out on my vote until petunho returns to see what he has to say.

Sounds like he was waiting for you.

Yesterday I took the time to look back through thinktank's posts for links that might have been missed. So here are my alternative cases.

Artem

thinktank casts suspicion on Artem in posts 138 and 143, but never votes for him. This can be a buddytell - create an appearance of being against each other, without actually voting. But then, thinktank never really voted for anyone. Artem sat on his Drifter wagon for a while, which can be a scum strategy. It was Artem's suggestion to end the day, and although he said he'd prefer to lynch chapter 5, he got on the thinktank wagon fairly early with the third vote, at a time when I feel that lynch could have been averted if he had wanted to. If this was bussing then it was a pretty good one.

Petunho/Drifter

thinktank goes back and forth with Drifter, first

Drifter's reason for the claim seems to be genuine and at the moment I'm not agreeing with the arguments made against him. Based on what he has said, the argument and logic for his lynch seems little more than opportunistic.

and then

Looking back at Drifter's statements. Shadowlurker seems to be on the money. A drifter lynch would definitely be a possibility.

without voting, so again, possible buddy-tell there. And Petunho argued against lynching thinktank. For these reasons, Petunho is my second choice for a lynch target today.

RandomGem

No links that I can see, and RandomGem got on the wagon at the second vote, although without giving strong reasons either way. I can't rule out bussing, but it seems unlikely.

thegeckoj

Said he was considering voting for thinktank, but since he didn't (or didn't get the chance) we will never know for sure whether this was true. No other links that I can see.

lifeofpie has already been covered copiously, chapter5 is ruled out, and I know my own actions to be pro-town (although from your point of view, I'd say my case is similar as that for RandomGem).

Mod: could we have a prods please, on thegeckoj and Artem

[Fenchurch]

Oop, simul-post! Thanks for your thoughts Petunho. I start to despair, when not hearing from people in so long. Hoping that we can get a prod or a post from thegeckoj, since you are waiting for his response.

Petunho is my second choice for a lynch target today.

EBWOP: this would better read, Petunho is my second choice for scum. I am not currently consider lynching Petunho, because I think the case against lifeofpie is better.

[RandomGem]

Well, I think I would be able to justify thegeckoj's actions, although obviously I want him to explain for himself rather than just steal my reasons.
As for the rest, I find I agree with you. (Uh oh?)

[thegeckoj]

I haven't voted for three reasons.
1. i am not sure lifeofpie is scum, i figure at this point i can wait it out.
2. i am pretty sure petunho is the scum still. i still base this off drifters early actions.
3. i was moving and had little access to computers. i still logged on to read but didnt really feel th need or find the time to post anything of substance.

so at this point i still feel conflicted. i still have an inkling about petunho's scumminess, even though i really dont have any totally concrete evidence. on the other hand if so many people feel lifeofpie is the scum i cant really argue since i dont have any evidence eitherway.

im willing to be the hammer vote. i will reread through the last couple of pages to see if i can convince myself to end it, should be ready to vote or not by tomorrow.

[Petunho]

1. i am not sure lifeofpie is scum, i figure at this point i can wait it out.
2. i am pretty sure petunho is the scum still. i still base this off drifters early actions.
3. i was moving and had little access to computers. i still logged on to read but didnt really feel th need or find the time to post anything of substance.

I wanted to thegeckoj to answer so that I can see his reasoning of not hammering. I f you look back on his actions he has been willing to quick lynch all the last day but now he is holding it back. I would say this is because he got careful 'cause he got lot of accusations against him last time he tried to quick lynch.

He got careful and doing that he got too careful not to make any attacks or attempts to lynch. He has been only pursuing me with reasons that in my mind aren't really strong. He has not made real scum hunting only stuck in his first impression and that was also copied from others. Not very beneficial to the town.

[Fenchurch]

So, where does that leave us? Have either of you come to a voting decision yet?