House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Andresvmb]

My spicy scumread is Andante because of the Dwlee town case they made in the disenter QT

Is that spicy?

Sorry but I really don’t like this post.

Did VP Balter ever indicate a town read on Andante?
Cause if they did this is a pretty damn clear wolf slip.
@Andres
VP’s reads you got?

What are you asking me?

[Titus]

I'm starting to consider the possibility that some of the stubborn people may be scum. Today should be quick and I feel like I might have to heard cats to get a real wagon.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Johnny

[Andresvmb]

I don’t think the wolves “hopped on” I think there was a wolf that started it.
Rather it be the original day 1 wagon or the reformed wagon on day 2.

Out of all of the bad takes in the game (and there are several), this one is right up there. The Scum started a wagon on their Partner because what? What makes you believe this was the case? The first vote for DW btw is this one: 1651[/vote]. What about it screams that it was made by a Partner?

You know what’s actually kind of bad as I look at the votes? This one: [post]1736. DW had been pushed to the brink, and Rhaenyra (after voting for DW as the 4th voter) moves away from them to start a vanity wagon on VPB. The part that’s curious though is that I don’t know that if you absolutely think DW is going down there, that you move away, making you look so transparently bad (I was expressing skepticism and could have hammered, and there were several well explained reads going against DW there).
Andante’s 1737 is also Scummy looking there.

[Andresvmb]

^

@Pooky can you fix my references?

[Andresvmb]

Prince of Dragonstone: unwnd
Hand of the King: Datisi
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Andresvmb
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers/Grand Maester: Mathblade

There's only 4 council members alive. Every player can't hold more than two roles. So if you can:

Don't give Master of Whisperers to anyone

. At this point you forced to grant Grand Maester (too important). If you also grant Master of Whisperers, then there will be two players with two PRs. And they could't replace if someone else die.

Atleast i don't think you can revoke someone power without killing them. Tsk...

How does this make any sense? Don’t give PRs to players (regardless of read) because they might get shot? I can’t say I think there’s a lot of logic to this. I think the approach that favors Town is to let TSQ hand the roles to players we TR, and we do our best to take advantage of the PRs. Unless you’re arguing that there are only Scum in the Council so handing roles out is detrimental, I can’t say I’m tracking the logic here.

[VP Baltar]

mod, I will be VLA Sat-Mon

[Enchant]

Prince of Dragonstone: unwnd
Hand of the King: Datisi
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Andresvmb
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers/Grand Maester: Mathblade

There's only 4 council members alive. Every player can't hold more than two roles. So if you can:

Don't give Master of Whisperers to anyone

. At this point you forced to grant Grand Maester (too important). If you also grant Master of Whisperers, then there will be two players with two PRs. And they could't replace if someone else die.

Atleast i don't think you can revoke someone power without killing them. Tsk...

How does this make any sense? Don’t give PRs to players (regardless of read) because they might get shot? I can’t say I think there’s a lot of logic to this. I think the approach that favors Town is to let TSQ hand the roles to players we TR, and we do our best to take advantage of the PRs. Unless you’re arguing that there are only Scum in the Council so handing roles out is detrimental, I can’t say I’m tracking the logic here.

I refuse to talk with someone who can't read.

[Andresvmb]

Another reason why those 3 voting Johnny contains at minimum 1 wolf cause the Kingsguard is definitely not all town and can contain more than 1 wolf.

@Andres
I don’t care how much you have fantasies thinking you’re the best and can pick all town, you didn’t. End of story.

I don’t know if you have access to any of the posts I put out there were I was convinced it was difficult to pick an all Town Kingsguard, or why certain actions are difficult to get through the Kingsguard since I didn’t have any confidence that the Kingsguard was all Town. But you can ask me. This is beyond annoying.

[Andresvmb]

Prince of Dragonstone: unwnd
Hand of the King: Datisi
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Andresvmb
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers/Grand Maester: Mathblade

There's only 4 council members alive. Every player can't hold more than two roles. So if you can:

Don't give Master of Whisperers to anyone

. At this point you forced to grant Grand Maester (too important). If you also grant Master of Whisperers, then there will be two players with two PRs. And they could't replace if someone else die.

Atleast i don't think you can revoke someone power without killing them. Tsk...

How does this make any sense? Don’t give PRs to players (regardless of read) because they might get shot? I can’t say I think there’s a lot of logic to this. I think the approach that favors Town is to let TSQ hand the roles to players we TR, and we do our best to take advantage of the PRs. Unless you’re arguing that there are only Scum in the Council so handing roles out is detrimental, I can’t say I’m tracking the logic here.

I refuse to talk with someone who can't read.

There aren’t enough people dead on the Council where you are forced not to allocate PRs. So again, unless you’re completely ignoring how the mechanics of the game work, why would you choose not to allocate a role now because it may not be possible to allocate them in the future? I could be wrong but don’t you have the same problem whether you allocate the PR or not if Town in the Council gets shot?

[Enchant]

if we give both roles and for example Cop gets shot: There will be only one replacement.


Why even give tracker if we not using them. This way we have atleast two potential candidates.

[Firebringer]

Did andante do another datisi flip after saying she wouldn’t do that anymore

[VP Baltar]

Did andante do another datisi flip after saying she wouldn’t do that anymore

huh?

[Firebringer]

Andante keeps flip flopping datisi on her reads
Every five minutes

[VP Baltar]

ok, so what does that mean?

[Firebringer]

It’s annoying
That’s it

[Andresvmb]

Why don’t we work through an example, because I’m not understanding your point @Enchant.

The current Council is this:
King: TSQ (as they make selections, I presume they cannot be picked for a PR, but I don’t remember reading that anywhere, though I would also think that logically that makes sense)
Prince: Johnny
Hand: Datisi
LORD COMMANDER: Andrés
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers / Grand Maester: [Empty]

Scenario 1: You allocate Grand Maester to say me (since you do not want to allocate Cop + Doctor to the same person), you do not allocate Master of Whisperers. I get shot holding two PRs including Doctor (since I cannot protect myself), but force the Scum to not shoot Datisi as the Hand (since we care that they get a result again tomorrow). Okay, then Lord of the Kingsguard is up for grabs, and so is Master of Whisperers + Grand Maester. You’re left with 4 other players on the Council (outside the King), and 3 roles to distribute which can all be handed out since no one is holding two PRs then.

Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?

Note, this is NOT me advocating to get Grand Maester. If anything, I don’t want it because it’ll get me NK’ed, but I’ll accept it if strictly necessary. But I don’t see how you don’t end up in a better place if you distribute the two PRs that remain instead of just one.

[Andresvmb]

Does anybody think I’m missing anything?

[VP Baltar]

It’s annoying
That’s it

I don't understand why you're bringing it up unless you think andante is scummy.

Why don’t we work through an example, because I’m not understanding your point @Enchant.

The current Council is this:
King: TSQ (as they make selections, I presume they cannot be picked for a PR, but I don’t remember reading that anywhere, though I would also think that logically that makes sense)
Prince: Johnny
Hand: Datisi
LORD COMMANDER: Andrés
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers / Grand Maester: [Empty]

Scenario 1: You allocate Grand Maester to say me (since you do not want to allocate Cop + Doctor to the same person), you do not allocate Master of Whisperers. I get shot holding two PRs including Doctor (since I cannot protect myself), but force the Scum to not shoot Datisi as the Hand (since we care that they get a result again tomorrow). Okay, then Lord of the Kingsguard is up for grabs, and so is Master of Whisperers + Grand Maester. You’re left with 4 other players on the Council (outside the King), and 3 roles to distribute which can all be handed out since no one is holding two PRs then.

Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?

Note, this is NOT me advocating to get Grand Maester. If anything, I don’t want it because it’ll get me NK’ed, but I’ll accept it if strictly necessary. But I don’t see how you don’t end up in a better place if you distribute the two PRs that remain instead of just one.

I do think Shea should check if he can grant powers to himself. That does seem to change planning potentially. Overall though, I think your argument reads correct to me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Execution Vote Day Three

With seventeen players alive - it will require nine votes to eliminate a player.

JohnnyFarrar [4]:

VP Baltar, GuiltyLion, Unowen, Andresvmb

Roden [1]:

Datisi,

Unowen [1]:

Andante

Dannflor [1]:

mastina,

Lady Lambdadelta [1]:

Dannflor

GuiltyLion [1]:

ProfessorDrapion

not voting [8]:

JohnnyFarrar, Lady Lambdadelta, Titus, furtiveglance, Firebringer, Roden, Enchant

Execution Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-08 14:58:35)

mod note

VP Baltar is VLA Sat-Mon

[furtiveglance]

Why don’t we work through an example, because I’m not understanding your point @Enchant.

The current Council is this:
King: TSQ (as they make selections, I presume they cannot be picked for a PR, but I don’t remember reading that anywhere, though I would also think that logically that makes sense)
Prince: Johnny
Hand: Datisi
LORD COMMANDER: Andrés
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers / Grand Maester: [Empty]

Scenario 1: You allocate Grand Maester to say me (since you do not want to allocate Cop + Doctor to the same person), you do not allocate Master of Whisperers. I get shot holding two PRs including Doctor (since I cannot protect myself), but force the Scum to not shoot Datisi as the Hand (since we care that they get a result again tomorrow). Okay, then Lord of the Kingsguard is up for grabs, and so is Master of Whisperers + Grand Maester. You’re left with 4 other players on the Council (outside the King), and 3 roles to distribute which can all be handed out since no one is holding two PRs then.

Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?

Note, this is NOT me advocating to get Grand Maester. If anything, I don’t want it because it’ll get me NK’ed, but I’ll accept it if strictly necessary. But I don’t see how you don’t end up in a better place if you distribute the two PRs that remain instead of just one.

Why don't we make Johnny the Grand Maester, tell them who to give potions to. If they're Town they become a likely nightkill target which solves their slot, and if they're Mafia they have to help us with the potions or we vote them.

[Andresvmb]

Why don’t we work through an example, because I’m not understanding your point @Enchant.

The current Council is this:
King: TSQ (as they make selections, I presume they cannot be picked for a PR, but I don’t remember reading that anywhere, though I would also think that logically that makes sense)
Prince: Johnny
Hand: Datisi
LORD COMMANDER: Andrés
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers / Grand Maester: [Empty]

Scenario 1: You allocate Grand Maester to say me (since you do not want to allocate Cop + Doctor to the same person), you do not allocate Master of Whisperers. I get shot holding two PRs including Doctor (since I cannot protect myself), but force the Scum to not shoot Datisi as the Hand (since we care that they get a result again tomorrow). Okay, then Lord of the Kingsguard is up for grabs, and so is Master of Whisperers + Grand Maester. You’re left with 4 other players on the Council (outside the King), and 3 roles to distribute which can all be handed out since no one is holding two PRs then.

Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?

Note, this is NOT me advocating to get Grand Maester. If anything, I don’t want it because it’ll get me NK’ed, but I’ll accept it if strictly necessary. But I don’t see how you don’t end up in a better place if you distribute the two PRs that remain instead of just one.

Why don't we make Johnny the Grand Maester, tell them who to give potions to. If they're Town they become a likely nightkill target which solves their slot, and if they're Mafia they have to help us with the potions or we vote them.

@furtive I don’t agree. I thought about the strategic point of giving the role of Doctor to the Scummiest person on the Council, but if you scrutinize the logic, it fails I think.

[VP Baltar]

Can anyone make a Johnny town case that isn't entirely reliant on "Rhaenyra posted a lot of nonsense quickly"?

That's utterly unconvincing to me and there is almost certainly scum benefit to burning post counts quickly. Some people have mentioned Rhae's posting about dwlee in the nonsupporters thread, but can someone other than Mastina look at that and give some actual analysis?

What is the evidence that outweighs unwnd's partnery looking interactions with dwlee and johnny's general anti-spew play all game?

[furtiveglance]

Why don’t we work through an example, because I’m not understanding your point @Enchant.

The current Council is this:
King: TSQ (as they make selections, I presume they cannot be picked for a PR, but I don’t remember reading that anywhere, though I would also think that logically that makes sense)
Prince: Johnny
Hand: Datisi
LORD COMMANDER: Andrés
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers / Grand Maester: [Empty]

Scenario 1: You allocate Grand Maester to say me (since you do not want to allocate Cop + Doctor to the same person), you do not allocate Master of Whisperers. I get shot holding two PRs including Doctor (since I cannot protect myself), but force the Scum to not shoot Datisi as the Hand (since we care that they get a result again tomorrow). Okay, then Lord of the Kingsguard is up for grabs, and so is Master of Whisperers + Grand Maester. You’re left with 4 other players on the Council (outside the King), and 3 roles to distribute which can all be handed out since no one is holding two PRs then.

Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?

Note, this is NOT me advocating to get Grand Maester. If anything, I don’t want it because it’ll get me NK’ed, but I’ll accept it if strictly necessary. But I don’t see how you don’t end up in a better place if you distribute the two PRs that remain instead of just one.

Why don't we make Johnny the Grand Maester, tell them who to give potions to. If they're Town they become a likely nightkill target which solves their slot, and if they're Mafia they have to help us with the potions or we vote them.

@furtive I don’t agree. I thought about the strategic point of giving the role of Doctor to the Scummiest person on the Council, but if you scrutinize the logic, it fails I think.

Scrutinise it then

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar