Gnosia Game over!

[Roden]

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

this is wild

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

there is no middle bloc!

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?

Can you answer this?

[Enchant]

Honestly i can't think about other arguments. NK15 is just confirmed scum and i can't do anything with it. Cool.

[narrow parking]

NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.

This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.

this might be a worse argument! surely he could have if he didn't do it on his 4th post

Yes...? I don't disagree. The argument is that NK15 is a pawn with zero interaction, I don't think that makes sense as an accusation when the game just started.

so we do disagree, I think he definitely could have, just as most players in the game had up to that point. his play was leading up to a claim from the jump.

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

this is wild

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

there is no middle bloc!

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?

Can you answer this?

the latter, i don't see any reason to believe either of them.

[Autere]

Roden, I'm feeling like a lot of your posts are leading with flavor expertise. I get the impression this is a setup that excites you because of it but I do think your #76 is a bit of a reach. I think FG's behavior is null yet your flavor leanings made it out to be a bigger deal than it was.

I am excited to play this set up, the game actually got me into playing forum mafia.

Can you explain what you mean by 76 being a reach though? The part where I talk about flavor is separate from my read on FG, I don't have any flavor reasons for scum reading them. My vote on them is because they entered the thread worried about the 3p when the Bug shouldn't be much of a concern for us yet.

Your #76 starts with flavor info which then wraps around to FG being 3P because reasons. I only assumed those reasons were because of the flavor context you provided, because you were responding to Marashu that you agreed with them.

[Autere]

the latter, i don't see any reason to believe either of them.

So if they're both full of it what does that mean?

[MariaR]

@mod since "freezing phase" is skipped does this mean that whoever gets voted is going to be flipped?

No, whoever gets voted will still remain flipless.

[Roden]

Spoiler: For convenience

NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.

This isn't a good argument, the game just started. It's almost impossible for them to have had any real interactions with the player list at the time of claiming.

this might be a worse argument! surely he could have if he didn't do it on his 4th post

Yes...? I don't disagree. The argument is that NK15 is a pawn with zero interaction, I don't think that makes sense as an accusation when the game just started.

so we do disagree, I think he definitely could have, just as most players in the game had up to that point. his play was leading up to a claim from the jump.

NK15, can you confirm that this came from you?

this is wild

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

there is no middle bloc!

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

consider me unconvinced of either of them

Do you mean that you're not sure who to believe, or that you don't think either of them are the Engineer?

Can you answer this?

the latter, i don't see any reason to believe either of them.

NK15 definitely could have waited and posted more first. That's the part I don't disagree with and is part of why I don't believe his claim. I'm saying it's not a good argument for Enchant to accuse him of zero interaction when it's his 4th post and it's the beginning of the game.

If you don't believe either of them, then doesn't that mean the real Engineer just isn't claiming? If that's your argument, then shouldn't we vote them out first? I don't think it's impossible, but I'd like to know your thought process here.

[Roden]

Roden, I'm feeling like a lot of your posts are leading with flavor expertise. I get the impression this is a setup that excites you because of it but I do think your #76 is a bit of a reach. I think FG's behavior is null yet your flavor leanings made it out to be a bigger deal than it was.

I am excited to play this set up, the game actually got me into playing forum mafia.

Can you explain what you mean by 76 being a reach though? The part where I talk about flavor is separate from my read on FG, I don't have any flavor reasons for scum reading them. My vote on them is because they entered the thread worried about the 3p when the Bug shouldn't be much of a concern for us yet.

Your #76 starts with flavor info which then wraps around to FG being 3P because reasons. I only assumed those reasons were because of the flavor context you provided, because you were responding to Marashu that you agreed with them.

That's definitely not supposed to read like the first line break is the same thought process as the second line break. They're two entirely different thoughts responding to two entirely different thoughts in Marashu's post.

[narrow parking]

the latter, i don't see any reason to believe either of them.

So if they're both full of it what does that mean?

too early to tell imo

nk15 has been edging us on his role since like page 1
enchant had a pretty emotional reaction to the (fake?)claim but i haven't seen anything AI from his reaction. i have no meta for enchant so i don't know if this kinda response is in his range as either alignment so im ambivalent.

the flipless nature of the game allows for scum to get away with fake claims (especially cop) much more easily.

If you don't believe either of them, then doesn't that mean the real Engineer just isn't claiming? If that's your argument, then shouldn't we vote them out first? I don't think it's impossible, but I'd like to know your thought process here.

if i were engineer i wouldn't claim here. i doubt we'll reach end of phase without one of them walking back their claim. if one of them dies during the night w/o that happening we know they're both town cuz scum doesn't want to get rid of that kind of wifom.

ill wait for the dramatic reveal to decide if i want one of them froze

[Autere]

I still stand by what I said about your flavor leanings even if I misinterpreted a bit. You were talking about the Bug which is 3P so two in two got put together. Do you think having said flavor knowledge (and sharing it) is beneficial? Bare in mind that any flavor you talk towards me will be tuned out.

Will admit, been a bit tiresome to read as a whole. Don't feel like it's helping me win the mafia game but hey

[Enchant]

VOTE: narrow parking

narrow prepares safe landing to CC me in case i will defeat fake.

His message will mean nothing if i die and everyone will forget it then, but will be used as "evidence" that he dropped tip about being Enginner to still cast doubt on me if i win.

[Enchant]

Damn i missed chance to say "prepares safe parking place"

Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Roden]

I still stand by what I said about your flavor leanings even if I misinterpreted a bit. You were talking about the Bug which is 3P so two in two got put together. Do you think having said flavor knowledge (and sharing it) is beneficial? Bare in mind that any flavor you talk towards me will be tuned out.

Will admit, been a bit tiresome to read as a whole. Don't feel like it's helping me win the mafia game but hey

I figured everything I was saying about the game was relevant since some of the mech interactions aren't straightforward

[Scoliosis]

VOTE: narrow parking

narrow prepares safe landing to CC me in case i will defeat fake.

His message will mean nothing if i die and everyone will forget it then, but will be used as "evidence" that he dropped tip about being Enginner to still cast doubt on me if i win.

This is the real cop VOTE: NK15. Thought in 160 sounds legit coming from cop.

I have Roden and Enchant town. I don't have any solid scum reads so I'm fine just limming nk15 today. I don't understand the enchant scum reads at all. I think enchant is doing things to move the early game forward and nk15 is just existing with his fake claim (imo.)

I lose nothing.

I just don't believe NK and his ability.

Oh, I do have that ability.

So. This is flipless but open so things are going to be a bit different.
For example.... People claiming after Day 1 cannot be confirmed which means that the Engineer has to claim Day 1.

I am the Engineer!

Whoever wants to counterclaim: now or never.

I don't think this is a believable claim. I think rolling engineer will usually make a player more invested which is what enchant is showing with their activity levels. Nk15 looks like their whole plan is to fake claim and lurk.

[Scoliosis]

My first thought looking at Junko's iso is that they are town. I guess I will add junko to my list of town reads with roden and enchant.

[Scoliosis]

though it was kinda a strange way for marashu to phrase it due to saying town as opposed to humans but ehhh feels fairly interchangeable to me

Wanted to say it that way because at the time I didn't know whether or not there's a lie detector (to be fair, I still don't) and wanted to cover for bug/traitor coming up human in case it's an actual lie detector and not just saying you're human. Don't know if it's NK15's actual skill or if it's a bluff, but I lose nothing by going along with that as well.

FakeGod's intro is giving me +traitor vibes.

I agree with this and I think fakegod is a little scummy.

Based on activity level: shiki, autere, marashu, ranger, fakegod probably has an active scum poster in it. Nk15 is scum who is limping along. I'd guess there is one scum who is being flakey and not posting.

Of the 5 active poster pool (the ones listed above), I lean town on marashu and scum on fakegod.

Town roden enchant junko
Town lean marashu
Null shiki autere ranger
Scum lean marashu
Scum nk15

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki}
{Roden, Jessica Rabbit}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

Can we talk about the differences in our reads lists a little bit?

[Scoliosis]

Town roden enchant junko
Town lean marashu
Null shiki autere ranger
Scum lean fakegod
Scum nk15

EBWOP

I listed marashu twice on accident.

[Not Known 15]

though it was kinda a strange way for marashu to phrase it due to saying town as opposed to humans but ehhh feels fairly interchangeable to me

Wanted to say it that way because at the time I didn't know whether or not there's a lie detector (to be fair, I still don't) and wanted to cover for bug/traitor coming up human in case it's an actual lie detector and not just saying you're human. Don't know if it's NK15's actual skill or if it's a bluff, but I lose nothing by going along with that as well.

FakeGod's intro is giving me +traitor vibes.

I agree with this and I think fakegod is a little scummy.

Based on activity level: shiki, autere, marashu, ranger, fakegod probably has an active scum poster in it. Nk15 is scum who is limping along. I'd guess there is one scum who is being flakey and not posting.

Of the 5 active poster pool (the ones listed above), I lean town on marashu and scum on fakegod.

Town roden enchant junko
Town lean marashu
Null shiki autere ranger
Scum lean marashu
Scum nk15

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki}
{Roden, Jessica Rabbit}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

Can we talk about the differences in our reads lists a little bit?

You are making the mistake of thinking this is a normal game. It isn't.
With only two Engineer claims you don't actually lim in the Engineer claims but let them resolve over time.
And if I had claimed and no one would have counterclaimed then making reads early would have been counterproductive.

[Not Known 15]

Atm though I do believe your claim more than NK15's.

That's interesting.
I see Enchant as the most scummy player in this list - independently from the lockscum(for me) claim.
Enchant is trying to be helpful and gives advice on mechanics. At the start of Day 1.
Does this sound like Town Enchant to you?

Yes, actually.

viewtopic.php?t=89933&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Nope. That's page 11,

Day 2

not page 1, Day 1.

[Not Known 15]

If we can get Enchant and NK15 to agree to investigate the same person, we might be able to start clearing. If they disagree, that could be telling, too (especially as the night kills add up). At the very least, N1 the GA will know who that is, so it's also risky for maf to NK the invest target.

This person gets it...

[Not Known 15]

if i were engineer i wouldn't claim here. i doubt we'll reach end of phase without one of them walking back their claim. if one of them dies during the night w/o that happening we know they're both town cuz scum doesn't want to get rid of that kind of wifom.

Enchant could be a bug or an AC Follower; though. The AC Follower is a Lone Wolf and the bug doesn't want to be investigated by an Engineer.

[Jessica Rabbit]

I’ve been reading up now and I don’t know what to make of either engineer claim but I think Enchant’s reaction sounds slightly more believable. I also don’t understand NK15 asking everyone to explicitly state they’re human instead of just town?

Am I misunderstanding someone? Is there something significant with regards to the specific wording? Like Enchant, I will state I’m town, in case something bad happens to anyone who claims human over town.

If we can get Enchant and NK15 to agree to investigate the same person, we might be able to start clearing. If they disagree, that could be telling, too (especially as the night kills add up). At the very least, N1 the GA will know who that is, so it's also risky for maf to NK the invest target.

This person gets it...

I do like this post however.

if i were engineer i wouldn't claim here. i doubt we'll reach end of phase without one of them walking back their claim. if one of them dies during the night w/o that happening we know they're both town cuz scum doesn't want to get rid of that kind of wifom.

Enchant could be a bug or an AC Follower; though. The AC Follower is a Lone Wolf and the bug doesn't want to be investigated by an Engineer.

Why do you exclude Gnosia from this list? And that of course could also apply to you as well no, including Gnosia, because if both you and Enchant hypothetically “investigate” the same person and one or both of you isn’t town, yoiu could then hypothetically disagree on the invest target and make sure Gnosia isn’t investigated and as Enchant points out, protective can’t be on the mutual invest target and either of you.

I don’t know what to make of any of this tbh. NK15 sounds good tone wise but Enchant’s reaction looked more townie.

[Jessica Rabbit]

That said, Doctor (not Guardian Angel) should claim as well

I disagree.

GA can't protect both me and Doctor.

This seems to indicate a townie thought process, since I think it’s in scum’s interest to have prs outed. Am I misunderstanding something here Roden?

[Not Known 15]

Why do you exclude Gnosia from this list? And that of course could also apply to you as well no, including Gnosia, because if both you and Enchant hypothetically “investigate” the same person and one or both of you isn’t town, yoiu could then hypothetically disagree on the invest target and make sure Gnosia isn’t investigated and as Enchant points out, protective can’t be on the mutual invest target and either of you.

I don’t know what to make of any of this tbh. NK15 sounds good tone wise but Enchant’s reaction looked more townie.

That depends though! Enchant cannot just claim to have found Gnosia all day and if Enchant isn't Gnosia then Enchant doesn't even know the truth.
We do need a Doctor(read:Gnosia Coroner) claim however. narrow parking told us that a nightkill on (Enchant, myself) would make us both town which I disagreed with. Sure, Enchant can be Gnosia, too. But even if that WIFOM reasoning was true it would fail if Enchant was Bug or ACF.

[Enchant]

I think fear of fact that Coroner could silenty die is exaggarated.

Scum will need to explain why they not die afterwards after all.

So i against Coroner claim d1.