House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[fireisredsir]

are we able to guarantee that we can protect the cop if necessary forever? i don't think we can guarantee that

Forever is not required. Who wants to live forever anyway?

I would wager... 1 night, maybe 2 would do the trick. If Datisi is town and Titus becomes cop, we can protect Titus.

Also, if Titus dies, doesn't one of the current kingsguard become the lord commander of the knightswatch... and join the council?

idk it just seems like not limming datisi gives us one more night which could be useful

on the kingsguard point maybe? can we keep doing that indefinitely

if so then i guess we won't run out of slots as fast

[mastina]

Why would scum shoot FB

Fucked if I know, but that question has been asked of every nightkill so far:
"Why did Lukewarm die? His reads weren't anything special" or something like that.
"Why did MathBlade die? He was MathBlade, scum killing him was doing us a favor" or something like that.
"Why did Andres die? He was part of the Datisi/GL/VP bloc, killing him does the town a favor" or something like that.

And yet the scum made all three of those kills.

The scum kills might seem baffling, but I have a quite simple theory as to why:
The scum

really

want the tracker power, for whatever reason.
(As a reminder--scum getting council powers get extra scum powers. Maybe getting tracker gives the player something like Godfather? Something to make that position and that position specifically worth it to be scum.)

[fireisredsir]

are we able to guarantee that we can protect the cop if necessary forever? i don't think we can guarantee that

as long as my income doesn't go down. we could

funding yes but like if we lim dats and cops shoot the doctor then we're running really tight on slots

dont we just need to confirm if jailkeep can guard the doc. seems like that might be broken thing that could work. We talked about getting confirm about this last night

ill ask

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm being honest I don't see how it's different mechanically to lim Datisi now or tomorrow, and I know the difference in information we will have doing a non-datisi elim today vs post-datisi flip.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

To me there is exactly 0 downside to eliminating Datisi right now.

[mastina]

Why does scum kill tracker three nights in a row

And since it worked for them three times, why not try a fourth?

So four scum supported Shea and used that momentum and the supporters PT to get exactly zero (0) scum on the council?

I mean--not for lack of trying!

They just failed.

Just because a scum plan

fails

doesn't mean the scum didn't try the scum plan.

I've said, explicitly, since something like N1. "The scum deliberately voted Shea in as King hoping he would place them onto the council. When he didn't, they hard-pivoted in focus because they had to".

I've yet to see so much as a single piece of evidence suggesting I'm wrong, and literally every piece of evidence suggests I'm right.

[Firebringer]

i mean killing a good town asset is always a downside.
This is why i argued against titus suggestion when she just said to not check u and just limming u.

[Thestatusquo]

Pooky has very actively refused to answer any questions about whether or not we can actually put new people on the council.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i mean killing a good town asset is always a downside.
This is why i argued against titus suggestion when she just said to not check u and just limming u.

This assumes Datisi is infact town.

[mastina]

If all the PRs are town, tracker isn't a threat

Sure isn't!

But they wouldn't be wanting it for the

town

power, now, would they?

They'd want it for the SCUM power.

We don't know what the scum power for any of the PRs is. But if I had to guess, the less valuable the town PR (tracker is by far the weakest town power), the more valuable the scum PR would be, to give the scum incentive to be the weaker PRs instead of the stronger ones.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pooky has very actively refused to answer any questions about whether or not we can actually put new people on the council.

I'm gonna petition this directly to you as well.

Since you're king, I want you to look at the logic I'm presenting for killing Datisi today. If you agree, and if the town won't follow through...

please consider exexcution.

[GuiltyLion]

The scum really want the tracker power, for whatever reason.

That would require a scum on the council...

[Roden]

Who are the 4 other crazy mofos

The 5 are:

Shea
Me
Mastina
Titus
You

and before you say you would never do that, come on now.

I would. Don't really think it's all that crazy of a play tbh.

[Firebringer]

@LLD i dont get ur response.
Titus said u weren't worth a check because u were being detrimental to the town. I said that isn't a good reason to lim a Town!LLD. My point is limming a person because they could be scum when they are very good player and or you don't actually scumread them. Is in my opinion just paranoia based play that i don't think is good. But we disagree here so theres no point in me arguing this anymore.

I would rather see pushes on dats that has a read on them.
I see ur arguments of why mechanically its good. But im like not a "lets play 100% optimally to the mechanics so break this game" kind of person. Maybe this means im terrible and need to get good. I find this gamesmanshiping unfun. I have strong feeling on town dats. But w/e.

Done arguing. I have a deadline for work so im going to get back to it.

[Firebringer]

The scum really want the tracker power, for whatever reason.

That would require a scum on the council...

GL im telling u. My whole scum plan this game was to continually kill the tracker until i got it.
Now I got it. I have achieved win condition. GG no re

[mastina]

Because Datisi HAS to be cleared to confirm their results. It must happen and it cannot afford to occur JUST at ELO

Lylo is at 7 players.

The day before lylo is 9 players.

We are at 13 players--literally two day phases away from that. (As a reminder: we GAINED an elimination due to the lack of deaths. It'd have been only

one

if literally anyone died last night. 12p gives mylo after two mislims. 13p gives mylo after three.)

I've no interest in eliminating a player I think is 100% guaranteed to be town right now when in those two days we can get two more check and quite probably just win the game outright, thankyouverymuch. One or two scum in those days, with two extra checks that can help narrow things down even further or just outright give us a guilty.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD i dont get ur response.
Titus said u weren't worth a check because u were being detrimental to the town. I said that isn't a good reason to lim a Town!LLD. My point is limming a person because they could be scum when they are very good player and or you don't actually scumread them. Is in my opinion just paranoia based play that i don't think is good. But we disagree here so theres no point in me arguing this anymore.

I would rather see pushes on dats that has a read on them.
I see ur arguments of why mechanically its good. But im like not a "lets play 100% optimally to the mechanics so break this game" kind of person. Maybe this means im terrible and need to get good. I find this gamesmanshiping unfun. I have strong feeling on town dats. But w/e.

Done arguing. I have a deadline for work so im going to get back to it.

I understand the value you're trying to perserve. I'm not a whole mechanics player either, but so much of our game hinges on the swing between these two worlds. Datisi has become a mechanical anchor of information, a pinata that needs to be opened.

this is the fate of all cops in small town setups. they must be verified.

i'm not going to say we kill datisis before they give last will and testament but... they need to die and it should be today

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because Datisi HAS to be cleared to confirm their results. It must happen and it cannot afford to occur JUST at ELO

Lylo is at 7 players.

The day before lylo is 9 players.

We are at 13 players--literally two day phases away from that. (As a reminder: we GAINED an elimination due to the lack of deaths. It'd have been only

one

if literally anyone died last night. 12p gives mylo after two mislims. 13p gives mylo after three.)

I've no interest in eliminating a player I think is 100% guaranteed to be town right now when in those two days we can get two more check and quite probably just win the game outright, thankyouverymuch. One or two scum in those days, with two extra checks that can help narrow things down even further or just outright give us a guilty.

I don't really give a shit what you think Datisi is. If Dats is scum, you're always scum here so of course you say this?

Also, I'm not letting this thing happen where we wait to kill Dats until the DAY BEFORE ELO and then have NO FUCKIGN SPACE to work in.

Your logic is fucking bad and you know that. It's better to have miselims with MORE info than less.

[GuiltyLion]

Yeah also it's not just resolving Datisi a Datisi townflip literally 100% clears three players

That's valuable in and of itself

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah also it's not just resolving Datisi a Datisi townflip literally 100% clears three players

That's valuable in and of itself

^this

[GuiltyLion]

Also I think we're at a point where we also ask why scum has not killed any of the clears

Like I haven't been talking about it much because its anti-town but a town!Mastina is insanely dangerous to scum, why have scum not attacked her for three straight nights

[fireisredsir]

i agree that datisi needs to die

im not even that confident that he's town. i thought he was more likely scum earlier and now my main reason for thinking that he's town is that idk how he wins as scum here and it feels like he would be doing something else to give him a better chance of winning (or if it's already unwinnable then maybe not trying so hard lol)

i just don't really feel like it needs to be today. i think we have a good chance at flipping a scum in the standard poe today and i would prefer to try to do that, and if we can't then we can go to datisi tomorrow

maybe that's not mechanically optimal, i think you're probably right, so i won't push for that i guess. my opposition to it might be on a more philosophical level

[mastina]

I did say in council chat as crazy theory talk if dats played the game to get mastina as prince with fake clear and then had somehow organized the kingsguard to kill Shea i would nom him for a scummy for brilliant scum play.

And yet, Shea is still alive. And so are you. And so is fireisredsir.

It's literally gamethrowing to eliminate on the council today. The scum very clearly don't have any power; if they did, we'd have seen

some

form of difference in the game.

Eliminating in the council is doing the scum's jobs for them--because the scum haven't killed anyone outside the council yet, now, have they?

Plus, I wasn't the one pushing for a Johnny elimination. I knew the slot was town. It's

almost

like it was SCUM who wanted that elimination.

Every kill has been on the council and every town player actually voted out by elimination was on the council.

It's almost like being on the council is something scum want but don't already have!

[fireisredsir]

Also I think we're at a point where we also ask why scum has not killed any of the clears

Like I haven't been talking about it much because its anti-town but a town!Mastina is insanely dangerous to scum, why have scum not attacked her for three straight nights

this is also true

if datisi fakecleared a scum partner then scum has more incentive to not narrow the pool

[Firebringer]

town!Mastina is insanely dangerous to scum

have u seen mastina pushes this game