Open 871 - The Haunted Village | Postgame

[Save The Dragons]

there's only one possible bus on bianco and it's kaito. if it's not kaito i'm looking offwagon.

[Gimli]

you're town again aren't you

wolfy m'fer lol

[Gimli]

I think we flip kaito, then

[Gimli]

I'm voting for Fuyuhiko because they did not interact with the Bianco wagon, which I believe makes them more likely to be mafia. They posted 714 but it was vague and they didn't place a vote. That and their reads in posts 475 and 490 are pretty off the mark.

those are all good points on fuyuhiko

[Save The Dragons]

i'm always town

[Gimli]

I think it's very strange that he wanted to end the day already but wasn't voting biancospino

there's also not_mafia missing the hammer many times, so maybe they really didn't want to go there

I'm clearing fuyuhiko for tone and seeing scum everywhere and all in super wrong places which is very towny

[Gimli]

pet scumread: penguin was trying to frame people for not wanting to hammer bianco around EOD

probably just being town and making associates but maybe mafia trying to plant associates instead

[Kaito Momota]

Whoever the last undead is took the strongest power they had available, but didn't take both powers.

[Gimli]

it's the roleblocker. we know what scum has, it's in the mod posts at the beginning of the game.

and furtive talked about it in the first page.

I'm under the impression you don't know we know that, per your last post. did I misunderstand you, kaito?

[Gimli]

*misunderstood

english bad

[Kaito Momota]

Yes you misunderstood me. I'm saying the roleblocker is the strongest role the undead took and the last undead chose that role rather than their teammates.

[Save The Dragons]

oh i see

i don't know if i think kaito's it anymore

VOTE: kyoko

[Kaito Momota]

I really don't think it is Kyoko. She was pushing Bianco yesterday, and today with two undead destroyed she is making another push which puts attention on her but follows with what she was thinking the previous day.

[Wednesday Addams]

---

Even with the doors tightly closed, even bundled in the warmest blankets, the winter chill was unforgiving and undiscerning. It froze, it locked whatever it touched into the embrace of eternity. It did not care if you were alive. It did not care if you were dead. All it cared was that you were made of freezable meat.

---

Not_Mafia was killed in the night. Not_Mafia was

Spoiler: Not_Mafia

Undead Ghoul

.

Saihara Shuichi was killed in the night. Saihara Shuichi was

Spoiler: Saihara Shuichi

Village Witch Hunter

Day 2 begins. It will end in (expired on 2023-02-05 10:44:20).

Wow this is awesome, only one scum left. I thought Bianco seemed unhappy so wasn’t really surprised but I had no clue about NM but nice shot.

[Wednesday Addams]

Here's the wall. In nice spoiler so that it won't fill the screen.

Spoiler: Wednesday

I will ignore posts I don't find significant.
118: I agree with Wednesday here that Gimli's sus on her is not really founded, in fact just posting some rvs placeholder and then disappearing is the sort of thing I'd do myself if a game were to begin while I had RL things to do -- frankly, I don't really care for the implication here that Wednesday was faking that.
That said, I'm unsure if that line of thinking is necessarily scum indicative, it is going for the easy fish though, so Wednesday's vote may be justified; it is however a somewhat agressive post (yes, I used that adjective myself this time).
As for the buddying comment, well I also saw it as already remarked, but people seem to think it was just a joke and I can get behind that, I just don't think it was a good joke.

133: I don't necessarily agree that switching votes rapidly during D1 is very scum indicative. If anything reveals some fluidity that I believe could more easily come from town. And I don't think that Gimli is "making votes for the sake of it", his votes are justified (even if, indeed, flimsily). I think this post is +scum actually.

146: that's fine, but I think asking to motivate a sus read on oneself is more likely to come from groupscum (I have no data on this, this is just based on my forma mentis. If anyone has data to back off the converse, I'll gadly hear it). So half +scum.

148: I actually like this interaction. The unvote seems to corroborate that Wednesday actually espouses the view in #133, as #142 does indeed alleviate the perception she had that Gimli's vote were just random. +town

149: whatever. The explanation is sound, and I also agree to the distaste of Gimli's vote for her, but I won't give her town cred for this.

176: see, this is a pretty inconsequential friendly banter. However, I point that out because post #127 is also inconsequential banter, and their both with STD. At this point I don't think it's consequential, but notice how STD was actually the only player Wednesday approached to in this manner (excluding quoting NM's read list, but then again lots of people, myself included, did that at some point).

total: 0.5+scum

Spoiler: STD

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Penguin

65: it's possible I'm just dumb, but this post doesn't make any sense to me? There were not two competing equivalent wagons, mine was already the largest and not tied with anyone. +0.25scum.
Also I resent the implication that my user is difficult >:(

67: uhm. Noncommital, but idk how much to read into it.

135: I mean, the wiki says that buzzword is a buzzword. Though I'm willing to actually give this and 137 +0.5town, this is a gut feeling but it's just that it seems to me it is quite to brazen for a scum.

total: +0.25town

Spoiler: Penguin

Spoiler: furtive

9: I actually read this as null. I guess it could be beneficial to town to start analysing mech early, though this one remark is pretty shallow and quite trivial, so a scum could have easily made it without really hurting anything.

13: this I like... a bit less, since he was the one to start doing setup spec. I'm giving it +0.25scum for that, though the awkward thing is that I actually agree with the suggestion here.

15: eh, that explanation does not actually completely alleviate the uneasiness.

21: this is a bit brazen, I actually don't hate it. At the very least is not panicky. Let's say +0.25town.

30: same thing as for #9; it's all well and good we know that, but the utility is so little that a scum could have easily made this observation without hurting anything. I'm not gonna give town cred for that.
About the Wednesday jokes, I do believe he just meant he didn't like those as jokes, at least as of 40, so whatever

117: about PP, I don't like doing meta, maybe when I'll have the will I'll check the veracity, though I do appreciate the comment.
I'm not 100% sure I do like the Gimli comment though, in a way it's, somewhat ironically, a bit surface level. Now I like that furtive is sharing some early reads, and I'm giving some town cred for that, but that's not really enough effort for me to give much. +0.5town

129--138: meta, meta, meta. I don't know meta.

151, 158: I don't care much for the assumption that Wednesday's vote would look particularly bad after town!Gimli flips; it is true that Wednesday was tunnelly and all, but to say that would implicate that Wednesday is probably not town if Gimli is is a lot of a stretch. I also don't care about the need to comment on the optics of what will happen when Gimli flips town, I of course get that it was just an argumentative hypothesis, it's just that sussing Wednesday on the fact that she would be sus assuming the veracity of a particular hypothesis sound off. +0.75scum, not a full +scum because I liked #151 in isolation.

199: eh, may be a decent attempt to get some interactions. +0.25town

205: That's bantery. May mean nothing though.

Spoiler: Gimli

6: I though it could be buddying, but people seem to think it's just a joke and whatever, I can manage to see it being that.

22, 23: that's well and good, but, like, why? +0.25scum
(also, I noted Gimli did call Fuyuhiko as huyuhiko a couple times. Is this just a typo or there is some lore reason to it, just curios)

28: I am willing to concede this may just be a late RVS vote and go on.

39: okay, but again, why exactly is that? Like, am I wrong in getting so upset about this? +0.5scum

46: eh, I actually do like this post. It's attempting to call out furtive on backpedaling, though I'm not convinced he was in the first place. Still, +0.25town.

56, 59: the TRs are fine. I'm unsure how I should thik about being defended like this though, I'm always a bit paranoid it may be buddying. Whatever, +0.25town.

63, 64: inciting discussion; that's good. +0.5town

87, 100: idk, lots of TRs. The STD things is probably a joke, but a bit distasteful to me, though I'll leave this at null.

116: it's a bit of a stretch alright. She may have had RL issues or whatnot, I feel like discounting this may be the case is slightly rude, but more to the point is slightly going for the easy target. +0.25scum, but I'm not sure on this.

122--124: uh. What. +0.25scum

142: the explanation makes sense. +0.25town

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Kokichi

33, 37: this to me seems a towny thing to do. I suppose it's possible for scum to do that to throw some easy shade, but also I don't think it would be effective at all. On the other hand, a Townie is either genuine, and so the vote is fine and also trying to see if someone else is of the same opinion to corroborate one's own is fine, or is attempting a reaction test which clearly has more utilty for town. +town.

190: this is on the same page as me thinking #38 to be slightly defensive. Kokichi here seems to be genuine, +0.25town

196: yeah, that line of reasoning is... flimsy at best. Though they're right that it would have taken us out of RVS, and doing so I believe is protown. I'm not giving extra town cred for this post in itself, since it was after the fact.

total: 1.25+town

Spoiler: Saihara

49: this post I like. I don't think it seemed fabricated concern, and it was good to initiate the game proper. +town

95--103: It was not a good job at convincing, but wathever.

total: 1+town
In all manners, my previously stated TR on Saihara stands.

Spoiler: Kyoko

50: I have already answered to the content of this post, and made clear my opinions on it. I want to say that, however, that some of the criticism in my original 78 are clearly resolved by 80, which does clear a lot of the doubts I had on her. With that, #50 does seem actual effort to scumhunt, so +town.

104: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the embedded picture. Not reading anything wrong into it, I'm just genuinely unsure.

112: eh, that's good. Well, I don't agree completely, though this is a pretty lucid explanation that I don't see scum making. +0.5town.

total: 1.5+town

Spoiler: Fuyuhiko

14--18: eh, a little quick to draw conclusions, but not completely unreasonable. +0.25town

145: ok. Don't think it's an AI thing to say though.

149 (I also believe 152 ties to this): since you're not the first to ask, I was under the impression that a FoS was just a way to signal willingness to vote a spot one find suspicious -- and so that a vote is no longer a FoS, since you already acted on that willingness. From what I'm understanding from here, I probably understood that wrong.

154: that's actually a reasonable question, though my judgment of Kaito may be clouded, since most of the things they said tie to me. +0.25town

156: why? It does come across as a bit brisky, I'll admit that.

164: as I said, I don't think gut reads are necessarily scummy. And the tone here seems a bit sarcastic to me, which I would imagine could possibly be some sort of veiled accusation. +0.25scum (but I'm not the best at reading tone...)

172: is this remark somewhat offhanded or what? I don't get if it sais that they're reading Gimli as town for that post, or sarcastically that they find all their other post so scummy that that one is the towniest.

178: this actually shows coerency with #156 and #164, so I'm gonna put it down as a bit townie-looking. +0.25town

total: 0.5+town

Spoiler: others

• Kaito is mostly talking about me and others' interactions with me, so it would be difficult for me to comment on them. I don't have actual reasons to scumread them at the moment, and in fact I do like the fact they're not hard TRing me and are in fact willing to entertain Kyoko's points, like in #108.
  
• Not_Mafia is just null. I don't think that the fact they put themself on the bottom does necessarily mean the list is trash, I think it's just memey. I also don't think the list is of much value, looks like is there mostly as joke anyway.

rule of three things

How do you get rule of three from this? He’s got the entire playerlist mentioned.

[Gimli]

there's only one possible bus on bianco and it's kaito. if it's not kaito i'm looking offwagon.

oh i see

i don't know if i think kaito's it anymore

VOTE: kyoko

kyoko isn't offwagon though?

[Gimli]

How do you get rule of three from this? He’s got the entire playerlist mentioned.

clearly I'm an idiot

[Save The Dragons]

there's only one possible bus on bianco and it's kaito. if it's not kaito i'm looking offwagon.

oh i see

i don't know if i think kaito's it anymore

VOTE: kyoko

kyoko isn't offwagon though?

uh

she was voting wednesday addams at end of day

[Gimli]

there's nothing more throwing a scum partner under the bus than what kyoko did to biancospino at the very start of the game, but okay if all you're looking at are the votes

[Wednesday Addams]

I find it interesting that Bianco's wagon gained speed when he is more afk and is now even facing resistance without him appearing in the game at all

He even said he is V/LA for a while so not sure what's the point of this pressure or de-pressuring right now. Like all the previous points I said about the slot stands but the timing of this wagon is weird at the very least.

---------------------

Now last two page interactions, I feel like Kaito is just sheeping the wagon without adding anything to the pressure itself.

and then there's the whole thing about having "caution" with making them claim - not making them claim unless you're ready to eliminate them while he himself is one of the main votes to push him to that stage(?) thing is just doesn't make sense.

@Kaito, hello sir, Would you mind talking to me about your top 3 to top 5 reads in the game a bit? I would like to engage in a conversation with you to understand your current game vision better if you don't mind

So why didn’t you vote him?

[Save The Dragons]

there's nothing more throwing a scum partner under the bus than what kyoko did to biancospino at the very start of the game, but okay if all you're looking at are the votes

what specifically are you talking about

[Wednesday Addams]

I don't see it

@Kokichi, unless the RVS banter is AI for std for some meta reason, which I don't know, that's the only post you may be referring to on page 1.
Now, Fuyuhiko's motivation for their (I presume) non-RVS vote is indeed pretty evident, so not to see it may be a little weird -- so I guess it may just be a very soft pocketing (or a very soft attempt to detract the real vote placed on his undeadbuddy, though frankly I would think doing such a thing, with that intention, barely out of RVS when there's no actual indication that relieving pressure would be necessary, has very little to no benefit and would risk outing one's buddy, so I'd be cautioned to exclude this hypotesys).

Though frankly, idk, it's not like it's so glaring that I'm convinced it's so. If we're looking at pocketing attempts, I'd even say that Gimli's joking about Wednesday is more emotionally significant to the parts involved (though, again, it may just be an interpersonal meta thing, which I wouldn't know about).

Okay, Gimli spewed town but he’s been pretty obvtown anyway. This makes me not to want to vote Kuzo. Gimli, sanity check me on this but I think this looks antipartnery for Kuzo.

[Gimli]

I don't see it

@Kokichi, unless the RVS banter is AI for std for some meta reason, which I don't know, that's the only post you may be referring to on page 1.
Now, Fuyuhiko's motivation for their (I presume) non-RVS vote is indeed pretty evident, so not to see it may be a little weird -- so I guess it may just be a very soft pocketing (or a very soft attempt to detract the real vote placed on his undeadbuddy, though frankly I would think doing such a thing, with that intention, barely out of RVS when there's no actual indication that relieving pressure would be necessary, has very little to no benefit and would risk outing one's buddy, so I'd be cautioned to exclude this hypotesys).

Though frankly, idk, it's not like it's so glaring that I'm convinced it's so. If we're looking at pocketing attempts, I'd even say that Gimli's joking about Wednesday is more emotionally significant to the parts involved (though, again, it may just be an interpersonal meta thing, which I wouldn't know about).

I have to things to mention regarding this post.

I don't follow the assumptions about how mentioning "Wednesday" was emotional/pocketing or in any way sus. It just was a non-game-related poke at a great username on first page of a mafia game with no game related content to discuss.

the second thing is that this post is actually filled with assumptions and no conclusions. For example in the first paragraph, you're assuming Kokichi is actually having a reason to sus STD and he is not aiming to find a reaction and make progress which is the point of RVS. Secondly you're assuming that Fuyuhiko's vote was serious. His intentions to vote is not yet clear by any means as we have to wait and see where he is going with that line of thought. secondly, you say voting for them might be a "soft pocketing". Is this based on some previous interaction between those two slots in another game? If not how you concluded that his aggressive reaction and vote is an instance of pocketing? and then you add another hypothesis and say it's to redirect attention. Why would he - assuming he is up for no good - would want to redirect people's attention away from his previous RVS vote on page 1?

All these assumptions, told out loud, don't seem to be coming up from a game-solving perspective. Its more like putting events the way you want them to be for your goal rather than finding that goal. All that being said the way you caught up on these two pages, it looks like shading and for that, I'll put my first FOS on you.

VOTE: biancospino



pedit. And I found my first town read.

@STD this was at the start of page 3. do you think that's likely SvS? it was also crossposted with suichi's vote, meaning they were both noticing the same thing. no one's vote is higher than kyoko/suichi's first suspicions on bianco I think, that set the tone of the game.

that you think being on a wagon has higher antipartner equity is crazy for me but maybe you're fakesolving because you're the wolf!!!!

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys

This is looking like an easy game

bianco's vote was on Fuyu so I don't think it's them anymore

I'll read up later but I don't think Kaito's comment about the Roleblocker is towny

VOTE: Kaito Momota

[Save The Dragons]

awooooooooooooooo!