Election! | GAME OVER

[Alisae]

I think my reads were bad yesterday and I think Gimli is a wolf but I think I’m probably just giving my vote to people who I think have better reads than I do

[Bingle]

Furtive why did you think n1 tracker was a decent option?

[Alisae]

idunno about this slip argument that's going on here tbh
I think assuming that there's a vig shot when there's an even # of players is a pretty good assumption.

[Gimli]

I don't like the slip argument at all and I think furtive is already out of his scum range by coming to this thread pissed off and then having misinterpreted a few things in the hood etc. it's all furtive things and not scummy furtive things. his scum game is more tied together and less tripping over himself, and he does have an extremely good point that not doccing enchant was bad.

[Gimli]

I would like timestamp on everything that happened in the council last night, if anyone can do that

[Alisae]

[Gimli]

GOTTA PROMISE NOT TO STOP WHEN I SAY WHEN

[Gimli]

well now I have to listen to it

[furtiveglance]

I need to sleep on this stuff

[GuiltyLion]

I don't like the slip argument at all and I think furtive is already out of his scum range by coming to this thread pissed off and then having misinterpreted a few things in the hood etc. it's all furtive things and not scummy furtive things. his scum game is more tied together and less tripping over himself, and he does have an extremely good point that not doccing enchant was bad.

1) can you explain why you don't think it's a slip? Why would xofelf be "expecting" to get shot if they're town and don't know the JOAT abilities?

2) you realize the slip argument isn't contingent on furtive being scum, right? Like yah I personally think his quick defensiveness around it is scummy but there can be worlds where xof is scum and furtive is town. This post reads to me like you think furtive being town makes the slip argument less likely and I don't think that's true at all. I am honestly thinking we should deathtunnel xof over this and I'd like you on board with that, even if we disagree on furtive. What's your read on Ausuka/xof otherwise?

3) why is making the "extremely good point" that Enchant should have been docced something that is less likely to come from scum furtive? I don't see how that's alignment indicative

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also how is furtive being "pissed" about enchant even town!indicative?.

me/bingle were extremely clear about the point of using the cop as a human shield to force the mafia to play nightless in this setup - which means scummy cops get killed that has always been the plan all along

its not like joat has an infinite number of docs we can keep docing the cop - this is a one shot ability.

[Bingle]

Eh, I would've kept the WIFOM alive in the PT about "Maybe I'll doc enchant" but I'm not at all upset that they got shot. I was a little upset we didn't get a more indicative cop pool D1, but that was literally decided before I made it to the thread.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: notes on sheriff vote

actiondan (datisi):
consistently finding enchant scummy
townreads datisi
scum reads ausuka

ausuka:
town reads enchant
read on datisi is unclear to me

bingle (enchant):
seems to be doing the same thing as me re enchant, but also isn't happy about it? to answer my own question from above, bingle was pretty obvious about this in thread before voting closed
unclear about datisi
unclear about ausuka
does suggest all 3 could be scum

bloodb0t (enchant):
disagrees with a town read on enchant
at least leans town on ausuka and datisi
later switches to a scum read on ausuka and votes there

datisi:
null on ausuka, then leans town
scum reads enchant, then lightens slightly

enchant:
likes ausuka and ausuka reads:
"furtive enchant and bingle are the only people I really townread on any level"
voted for datisi

furtiveglance (enchant):
strong town on enchant
seems null on ausuka, then town read
null on datisi, then doesn't want sleepkrew to vote for him

guiltylion (datisi):
null on enchant, confused by the votes
pinged by ausuka, then commits to a scum read
seems fairly null on datisi

herta (enchant):
read on ausuka is unclear, seemed to improve from lean scum to at least null
nothing on datisi
nothing on enchant

lld (unknown):
unclear on all, though maybe willing to kill ausuka and datisi its hard to tell if its serious

nono (enchant):
pass

pooky (enchant):
thinks ausuka and datisi are scummy
read on enchant isn't super clear but not as scummy as the others

cakez (ausuka):
seems to lean towards town for ausuka
seems to lean scum / null on datisi
nothing on enchant

sleepykrew (enchant):
nothing on ausuka
nothing on enchant
nothing on datisi

unowen (enchant):
nothing on ausuka
nothing on enchant
nothing on datisi

Treasurer: LLD 8, herta 5
Sheriff: enchant 9, datisi 2, ausuka 1
Mayor: pooky 6, SK 5, GL 2
Council Member: dan 6, meowth 4, unowen 3
Trash Collector: furtive 7, sircakez 6

It works out Unless LLD claims a vote on sircakes. I wonder what happens in case of a tie.

The only ausuka/xof vote for sheriff came from town, which checks out if ausuka is scum. It's probably not super important either way though, since enchant turned out to be town and scum wanted the kill there.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if we're going to put me back on the council why wouldn't you put me back in treasurer to prevent info on how that works from going to others

[furtiveglance]

No, the whole point is that someone else can verify your claimed actions^

[Gimli]

1) can you explain why you don't think it's a slip? Why would xofelf be "expecting" to get shot if they're town and don't know the JOAT abilities?

2) you realize the slip argument isn't contingent on furtive being scum, right? Like yah I personally think his quick defensiveness around it is scummy but there can be worlds where xof is scum and furtive is town. This post reads to me like you think furtive being town makes the slip argument less likely and I don't think that's true at all. I am honestly thinking we should deathtunnel xof over this and I'd like you on board with that, even if we disagree on furtive. What's your read on Ausuka/xof otherwise?

3) why is making the "extremely good point" that Enchant should have been docced something that is less likely to come from scum furtive? I don't see how that's alignment indicative

1) how would it be a slip if everyone is talking about a vig in the thread? it makes no sense idk why you're pushing people with that line of reasoning
2) you're the one who wants to flip furtive on a xof scum flip. I'm saying furtive is playing his town meta in this game and I know furtive and I can look inside his soul from his innocent blue eyes and tell he is town in this game. this is the same thing that happened to him in pairs mafia, tripping over himself over PT things and confusing emotions and thoughts with posts. I have no read on ausuka/xof
3) that's alignment indicative for furtive, I don't think he fakes being mad at things the town agreed on as mafia even if they're bad. I don't think furtive is a LAMIST wolf.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No, the whole point is that someone else can verify your claimed actions^

she hasn't even claimed anything so I'm not sure what there is to verify

[furtiveglance]

No, the whole point is that someone else can verify your claimed actions^

she hasn't even claimed anything so I'm not sure what there is to verify

She claimed that she made some type of investment into the treasury

[ActionDan]

Happy to support UNowen as my old role

Anything other than the CW, or is there deeper logic here?

I agree that UNowen is probably town for that and for the tinfoil reasoning of the townread on me showing a deeper attempt at reading motivation, but I'd be glad to hear any additional arguments.

Tinfoil read of you was not a good one certainly, but CW plus the fact that it was Meowths initial push goes a long way. At the time before the push meowth did not have suspicion on them, so I find their push more weighty. An argument for bussing exists but there's no point in entertaining it now.

You had a comment about me suggesting putting in a townread for sheriff made you want not to do that. Why?

[ActionDan]

Ok assuming that's true you still placed "tracker" and "JOAT's doc" as two viable options when discussing the 2nd role to fund after cop, correct?

Yes, I wanted to use my role.

I later misremembered the exact things I disagreed with LLD and Pooky on.

This is not the important issue - the important issue is that the Treasurer was manipulated by Pooky into killing town.

I feel like I've just eaten a bacon sandwich the wrong way. FFS

I looked back and it does seem LLD only revealed she could fund 2 roles after your comment so I guess that's fine.

But I don't see where Pooky even comes close to manipulating anyone. We were all involved in the process imo. Could you point to a post number that would support your assertion?

[ActionDan]

I'm going to reiterate and make explicit why I just don't want some null slot as cop.

We likely have the ability to fund 3 roles tonight. Both JOATs have a doc. The Treasurer can dictate which Joat uses what doc via the incremental numbers strategy. We should expect the cop to survive. That's benefit #1. The other is I'd like to have a cop check with some confidence comes from town so we trust it and don't have to Elim the cop to do so completely.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm going to reiterate and make explicit why I just don't want some null slot as cop.

We likely have the ability to fund 3 roles tonight. Both JOATs have a doc. The Treasurer can dictate which Joat uses what doc via the incremental numbers strategy. We should expect the cop to survive. That's benefit #1. The other is I'd like to have a cop check with some confidence comes from town so we trust it and don't have to Elim the cop to do so completely.

You don't understand the mechanic at all.

You will see, I guess.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Should I just out the treasurer mechanic at this point?

[GuiltyLion]

1) how would it be a slip if everyone is talking about a vig in the thread? it makes no sense idk why you're pushing people with that line of reasoning

see, this tells me you're not understanding it

xofelf said they "FULLY EXPECTED" to be "THE" vig shot. The use past tense of "expected" combined with confident assertion that a vig shot exists is the slip. It says that xofelf was thinking they were going to be shot last night. A townie would not be thinking with certainty that a vig shot exists last night, and if they were

speculating

about that they would use a past hypothetical tense, like "I

WOULD HAVE

expected" to be shot. Not "

fully expecting

".

Read xofelf's original post again and think about the fact that nobody who wasn't in the council PT should have been aware that there was a plan to use the vig. That's the slip. It's not just "talking about a vig lel" like you've phrased it here.

I will consider your other two answers to my questions.

[Gimli]

1) how would it be a slip if everyone is talking about a vig in the thread? it makes no sense idk why you're pushing people with that line of reasoning

see, this tells me you're not understanding it

xofelf said they "FULLY EXPECTED" to be "THE" vig shot. The use past tense of "expected" combined with confident assertion that a vig shot exists is the slip. It says that xofelf was thinking they were going to be shot last night. A townie would not be thinking with certainty that a vig shot exists last night, and if they were

speculating

about that they would use a past hypothetical tense, like "I

WOULD HAVE

expected" to be shot. Not "

fully expecting

".

Read xofelf's original post again and think about the fact that nobody who wasn't in the council PT should have been aware that there was a plan to use the vig. That's the slip. It's not just "talking about a vig lel" like you've phrased it here.

I will consider your other two answers to my questions.

you might end up in a spot here, I think, where you could be right that xofelf is scum, but because the slip doesn't really work people will not wanna go there if this is the reason. I can see maybe some suspicious perspective, but when xofelf wrote that, everybody knew about the vig shot and who was shot. it was the thread's main point as you can see if you read the posts in sequence.