Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame

[Alisae]

Alisae, now can you explain what you expected to happen if people had claimed like you wanted? What kind of scenarios did you expect to see?

I expected 1 wolf to claim it, 1 wolf not to claim it and I wanted to divvy up into groups like in this open setup https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... nd_Conquer I was kind of posting in a way that would suggest to wolves to play it like this.
The plan was to then use dayplay to sort the groups

I think if my prediction was correct it would have helped us find wolves cause we can compare claims to what had happened prior in the day phase

When I saw my role I really thought that the mod would just embrace the wine and give my role to a bunch of others but that seems like that isn't the case cause I'm the only living playing with my role :/

[biancospino]

Votecount

VC 3-III

Gimli (1 = E-2):

Alisae

Aureal (1 = E-2):

Gimli

Not voting (3):

Aristeia, Klick, Aureal

With 5 alive, it takes 3 for an execution.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-03-06 00:11:00)

Mod notes:

• I'm counting by hand, let me know if there's anything wrong.
  
• The combined mod ISO can be found here.

[Klick]

Just woke up, not in a place to make like a proper case, if that's something Gimli or whoever else really wants I'm fine to do that later
But I've reread Aureal and there's no way she's scum
She's so comfortable in her rebuttals against myko in a self-referential way that just feels genuine and like it would be an incredibly difficult route to take in that situation as scum
I'm like >99% confident that this is just town

[Klick]

done w/ this thread

if ari wants to flip me she can flip me

klick please kill alisae in f3 kthxbye

Okay good there shouldn't be too much after this for me to catch... up... on...

okay alisae then I'm done reading the game

it's you, and if it's not you I'm fine losing the game with you for playing f5 in a completely tunneled manner

gl hf losing f3 and go aureal

BOTH MASONS WANTED MYKO MAN
ÃDAD09A3JUDFAH8F8A3G8FA

what is this

I can't be mad you're just a wolf but what is this jfc

Mafia is a team game.
It doesn't just go 1 way. I don't just help you when it's convenient for you. That's a selfish way of playing and if you're going to pretend it's a team game when only you will only do what you think is right and only care to put your own reads before others, then like idunno.

Like ya you're a mason you're afraid you'll die tonight you wanna take your time that's fine, just don't promise to care about what I want when you care about what you want and you only see yourself as your only ally. I'm your teammate. One preferably uses their teammates to cover for their weaknesses. If you're confused, talk to me. If you need my help, ask me. If you don't know where to go, lean on me.

Mafia is a team game and knowing how to use your teammates strengths to cover for your weaknesses is an important aspect of the game.

I'm literally aristeia's team mate that you're shutting down. I helped kill scum on d1. you only got there when andante started flailing horrendously ITG. you spent the entire d1 enabling andante.

I wanna know what you think happens f3 after I flip. you're making sure you lose, alisae, do you understand that?

'im so good at mafia blablabla'

reality: has no perspective

I played with klick as a wolf team mate and I don't think klick is going to do with andante what klick did to andante as a scum partner. I'm hardclearing klick because of it. just check klick's ISO, they absolutely murdered andante, ari. it's not something you really do quite often to a partner early d1 of a 9er. klick caught andante in a trap play and exposed her as probable scum. that's how I got to strong SR andante when I was catching up with the game. while it's possible klick did that as a wolf, I think the only viable options as solves are alisae, me and aureal. if it's klick, I'm fine losing and we're going to lose.

I want to believe Klick is townie too which is why I think it's just you >_<

'want to believe' lol. aureal is also playing, btw, you don't even know what makes sense as a POE cause you're fake solving cause you're scum

There's an awful lot of aggressive appeal to emotion from Gimli here and I don't really dig it.

To be clear even if Gimli IS scum I don't think the intent here is to appeal to emotion
I think the scum motivation here would be him trying to set up a realistic-looking narrative for his thoughts in the thread
I think it's more likely that Gimli is just town though

[Klick]

Alisae does similarly in er arguments with Gimli but I think er responses are closer to 'Appeal to Emotion' than Gimli's responses
I think Alisae wants people to feel bad for not seeing Gimli as obvscum in places

[Klick]

I don’t wanna scream about Gimli being a wolf anymore.
I don’t wanna defend myself from Gimli’s shitpushes.
Both of these just translate into more screaming and yelling and just doesn’t sound productive.

I’m only doing it because I have to and I feel like it’s important to stay focused.

I wanna go to bed.

At least that's what I feel when I read stuff like this and I think that's Alisae's intent in writing it assuming e's scum

[Alisae]

Alisae does similarly in er arguments with Gimli but I think er responses are closer to 'Appeal to Emotion' than Gimli's responses
I think Alisae wants people to feel bad for not seeing Gimli as obvscum in places

I have a hard time buying that you're presenting this take in good faith

[Alisae]

I AtE as both alignments and it's draining to have to feel like I have to refute every argument that Gimli feels like he has to come up with

[Klick]

Alisae does similarly in er arguments with Gimli but I think er responses are closer to 'Appeal to Emotion' than Gimli's responses
I think Alisae wants people to feel bad for not seeing Gimli as obvscum in places

I have a hard time buying that you're presenting this take in good faith

I AtE as both alignments and it's draining to have to feel like I have to refute every argument that Gimli feels like he has to come up with

Okay so it sounds like I'm correct and you want people to feel bad that they don't see Gimli as obvscum?
It's fine if your answer is 'yes but I'm doing it as town' I can accept that as a possible answer!

[Alisae]

it's not like I can just not refute it
I don't know what I have to do to show the world that game ends when gimli flips

[Klick]

I just don't like Aureal having the take that Gimli's AtEing here when I'm not seeing that at all AND I'm seeing you do it in the same conversation

I want to both sort the truth of this situation and show it to two other townies
That is my current motivation

[Alisae]

Okay so it sounds like I'm correct and you want people to feel bad that they don't see Gimli as obvscum?
It's fine if your answer is 'yes but I'm doing it as town' I can accept that as a possible answer!

no I don't want anyone to feel bad man. Game is hard and people have their rights to take their time and think but like I feel like I just have this game solved and I just want it to be over. I feel like I just get this way all of the time when I'm hung up about something :/

[Alisae]

responding to every single bad take gimli comes up with is just draining :/

[Alisae]

but like how else am I supposed to stay on target and stay focused and while also demonstrate that everything Gimli I feel like is saying is just non-sense

[Alisae]

like ya it's frustrating that people don't see it but they're in their right to take their time

[Klick]

Aristeia has managed to make me a little less confident in Klick, from what I'm reading. This is not a forward direction that helps my confidence in doing things. I'm now remembering how I was trying to ask him about that 'trap' for Andante, and wishing I'd managed to get more clarity there. I didn't feel like it was as straightforward "Andante is scum for not reading stuff" as you thought. The impression I got was that Andante regularly plays that way, and I was hoping people with experience with that would give insight. But it didn't really go anywhere at the time, then the second wagon on her just materialized with no real discussion of that.

Here's the progression of what happened with that Andante interaction from my perspective:

- Andante posted this response to me:

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

- This projects the idea that Andante isn't reading the game, at least not in detail. If Andante was reading the game, she would already know that I think Aureal is town.
- I think it's possible that Andante actually IS reading the game, and is trying to show otherwise in the thread for some scum-motivated agenda. In hindsight it's not something that is particularly likely to be the case, but at the time I was skeptical.
- I post this:

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yet

With the intent of getting some insight on whether I'm right about Andante feigning ignorance of the game.
- Ten minutes later, Andante responds with this:

I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?

Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yet

bruhh it's not "I'd vote there but that makes it e-1" please explain why you're currently voting me then if you have no interest in my wagon

Which reads to me like she just takes my read at face value. I think she was legitimately not reading the game in enough detail to notice my Aureal townread.
It's important to note that if I thought Andante WAS in fact reading and feigning ignorance, that's what would make them almost definitely scum. The thing I was testing for proved inconclusive for Andante's alignment.
- I make it clear that I was just testing for Andante reading the game.

I hope this does something to clarify my position there. Gimli isn't quite correct in his assertion that me doing that completely caught Andante in itself. Andante's REACTION to me doing that was much worse than just not reading the game in detail.

[Klick]

Okay so it sounds like I'm correct and you want people to feel bad that they don't see Gimli as obvscum?
It's fine if your answer is 'yes but I'm doing it as town' I can accept that as a possible answer!

no I don't want anyone to feel bad man. Game is hard and people have their rights to take their time and think but like I feel like I just have this game solved and I just want it to be over. I feel like I just get this way all of the time when I'm hung up about something :/

I think the most direct route to victory is sufficiently showing that Aureal and myself are town and then voting you/Gimli in either order, which is my current goal
I think you're more likely to be scum than him but I DO have him open in the event that I'm wrong about you

[Alisae]

it genuinely makes me think I have the charisma of like a brick when I feel like I don't :/

[Klick]

If you're truly confident that Gimli is last scum then help me show her that she's wrong about me!

[Klick]

it genuinely makes me think I have the charisma of like a brick when I feel like I don't :/

For me at least, I'm very resistant to being persuaded my like most arguments that I don't genuinely see myself
ESPECIALLY from people that I suspect could convince me of something that isn’t true

It's not a 'not enough charisma' problem for me, it's a 'so much charisma that I can't open myself up to it' problem

[Klick]

Me just casually outing that I ignore most people's pushes in games >_>
It's okay no one will read this game

[Alisae]

the thought that anyone can think it's you before gimli I don't get as well and I don't think I have any power in showing why you're town
like i know you're town, it's obvious to me.

If anything you just look way more townier than Gimli

[Alisae]

it genuinely makes me think I have the charisma of like a brick when I feel like I don't :/

For me at least, I'm very resistant to being persuaded my like most arguments that I don't genuinely see myself
ESPECIALLY from people that I suspect could convince me of something that isn’t true

It's not a 'not enough charisma' problem for me, it's a 'so much charisma that I can't open myself up to it' problem

I get that it's most likely not a me issue but it makes me feel like I'm not enough and I never will be enough

[Alisae]

I would work hours on accurate cases just for someone to go "ya no I don't see it you're wrong sorry"

[Alisae]

like the fuck am I supposed to do when there's nothing I can do