Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame
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Alisae lolbalance
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actually I should strike out the word accurate there because I've posted inaccurate cases too and I've gotten the same response.
Obviously I can't see it being inaccurate when in the moment so in those moments that thought process still comes up-
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Klick Flash Forward
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So right before this game started, I finished a game where Andante was scum and was the most townread player in the game. Just as I was starting to work out that Andante might be scum, I got NKed in that game. I put a lot of work into trying to figure out the differences between town-Andante and scum-Andante. And so I entered this game with that analysis fresh on my mind.In post 1093, Aureal wrote:Klick, can you give me any more context for why you were scumreading Andante before the check on whether she was reading things?
As for that analysis itself, I gave it for the most part in this post:
And there are a few more nuances that you can tease out of that that are relevant to this game, but the main takeaway should be that: Andante BLEEDS natural solving when she's town. There's a really clear difference in mindset between Andante as town who says exactly what she thinks, and Andante as scum who tries really hard to give what she THINKS looks like genuine takes.In post 601, Klick wrote:The thing that Andante does as town is she has thoughts off the cuff and presents them basically unfiltered. In older scum games I believe she has a lot of trouble imitating this play. In her most recent scum game, she imitated this by presenting lots of potential thoughts, but all at a surface level, without the *belief* behind them. She basically pushed whatever was convenient for her at the time, there wasn't a consistent thought process.
I had a hunch from Andante's early posting that she didn't feel natural. Wavelength picked up on it as well:
The first page has a lot of Andante posts and together they feel... kind of nervous? That was my take on reading them. The RVS posts she gave felt forced, like each one was meant to project that she was excited for the game, like she needed to pretend she was excited for the game because she would be much more comfortable as town than as scum.In post 19, Wavelength wrote: VOTE: Andante
They have had the most stilted entrance so far. ITS THE GUILT
In order to go in more depth I'd need to like give really in-depth analyses of specific Andante posts in the first three pages and show the things that I just noticed subconsciously from them that felt *nervous*. The point being that I had a tone read on her, felt like she was trying to sell me *confident* and *motivated* and *spontaneous*, when what I was seeing was *nervous*. And this was all on a subconscious level.-
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Klick Flash Forward
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I think the main difference is that as town she shows *confident* and *motivated* and *spontaneous* at very natural levels
Whereas scum!Andante tries to express them all fairly strongly
As town it will happen naturally over a progression as the game goes on and it might not happen in every post
As scum she wants to make sure she gets them in-
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Klick Flash Forward
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In post 129, Andante wrote: Aureal seems townIn post 130, Klick wrote:Why's that?In post 131, Andante wrote: I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?In post 136, Klick wrote:
Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yetIn post 131, Andante wrote: I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?In post 139, Andante wrote:
bruhh it's not "I'd vote there but that makes it e-1" please explain why you're currently voting me then if you have no interest in my wagonIn post 136, Klick wrote:
Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yetIn post 131, Andante wrote: I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?In post 141, Klick wrote:
I actually hard townread Aureal and have talked about it in the threadIn post 139, Andante wrote:
bruhh it's not "I'd vote there but that makes it e-1" please explain why you're currently voting me then if you have no interest in my wagonIn post 136, Klick wrote:
Yeah, I'd vote there but I don't want the wagon to grow too big just yetIn post 131, Andante wrote: I like 128, are you thinking Aureal not town?
I just wanted to see what you'd say if I hard countered my thread narrative to see if you really hadn't read the thread. I think the answer is probably yes?In post 143, Andante wrote: why would I go back and read people voting me? fuck that. not worth my time. Thus I expect truthful information when I'm here in the moment, not to be lied to then "lol checking to see if you were reading the thread" like why would I? if I really want to dig into me being voted it's just going to annoy me, and the "haha andante e-1" from whoever?? yeah no thanks. vote me out before I care, then it can be "haha andante was town"
VOTE: Klick
I think this conversation should be clearing for me if I'm honestIn post 144, Klick wrote: It's been a decent chunk of the conversation on the last page, I don't feel bad for checking to see if you've read the game
Andante and I are really clearly out-of-sync with each other and have different motivations for responding-
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Klick Flash Forward
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Like Andante just gets annoyed that I'm calling her out on something dumb and not AI
The backlash is motivated by being frustrated by my push and reads as legitimate and I don't think it'd be legitimate if we were buddies-
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Alisae lolbalance
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I absolutely agree with Klick.
Andante voting Klick with that post is just absolutely just bizarre-
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Alisae lolbalance
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It would be really impressive wolf play to try to "trap" your own partner. They would have to be able to deceive their partner to do it.-
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Alisae lolbalance
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less pain for the brain if I just assume that that is not what is happening in this game and that what is happening in this game is that Gimli saw an opportunity to try to get cred on Andante and he went for it. It gives him the cred that he needs to be able to eventually try to position himself to go for my miselim if he wants it and I feel like that's something he's tried to do yesterday and now today.
He had a moment in thread where he mentioned that Aureal was like "you're just letting us kill each other, huh?" and I wanted to think so too but I feel like her play being not really agenda-based as well as her voting herta, herta being replaced followed by a conversation on if we wanted to quickly kill herta right then and there, followed by an unvote from Aureal, I think just makes it much more likely that the slot is just town-
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Alisae lolbalance
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Sorry for screaming maybe I'll start playing mafia like a sane person again and remember that I need to actually try to "case" the other players to prove their innocence's to others if it really is just Gimli (which it is ofc)-
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Alisae lolbalance
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A lot of this was said in this post but I left it unsaid. I don't know if Gimli was calling this shallow but I would like to think that this read is not shallow and that shallow is just a buzzword here to make it look bad.In post 1132, Alisae wrote: He had a moment in thread where he mentioned that Aureal was like "you're just letting us kill each other, huh?" and I wanted to think so too but I feel like her play being not really agenda-based as well as her voting herta, herta being replaced followed by a conversation on if we wanted to quickly kill herta right then and there, followed by an unvote from Aureal, I think just makes it much more likely that the slot is just townIn post 1038, Alisae wrote:In post 366, Aureal wrote: "Hi I'm just not going to play the first gameday kthxbai"
Really think that calls for a replacement but in case they are around at all VOTE: Herta
This I think is just more likely to come from town than a wolfIn post 388, Aureal wrote: UNVOTE: Herta
My thoughts were also much more in line with Datisi, and from four people so far claiming uninformed that seems to be bearing out as more valid. If both scum and Alisae's expected three town have that role that means literally all of us who've yet to weigh in. Just not seeming so likely.-
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Alisae lolbalance
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I think it's really easy to oversimplify my play here as "me not considering other possibilities."
If anything, I would say Gimli throughout this day phase has played in a way that tries to create opportunities. He's asked about Aureal but he's not putting any of the work in actually solving Aureal, and if he is, he's not showing it. The only thing he said about Aureal today is that her posts were bad and that he thinks she is letting us kill each other.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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he didn't trap Andante though?In post 1131, Alisae wrote: It would be really impressive wolf play to try to "trap" your own partner. They would have to be able to deceive their partner to do it.You are always gonna be my love-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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yes it is bizarreIn post 1130, Alisae wrote: Andante voting Klick with that post is just absolutely just bizarre
which is why it's strange Klick decided to go somewhere else.
and from a scum!andante POV doesn't it make sense to vote Klick as distancing/theatre?You are always gonna be my love-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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I'm honestly not even that confident on Klick being last scum - like every person in the game kind of townread Klick - which is why it's really strange for Klick to not have been nightkilled N1 - instead the shot was on Wavelength?You are always gonna be my love-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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I just feel like if I'm mafia and I decided to bus my partner on D1 - I would play this game exactly the way Klick has. Just do it and try to lean back and let townies rip each other up while keeping my hands clean. Like every other person in this game feels like they just went straight at people's throats on d2/3 without really considering how it makes them look - Alisae, Myko, Gimli are all extremely aggressive and feel like tunneled townies - Aureal less so but at least Aureal voting right away. Meanwhile Klick is just kind of standing back and letting things fall where they may.
I have a feeling if we mislim today - Klick will be the kingmaker on D4 and if he's scum he will win.
So if we decide to not lim Klick I want the following to happen:
(1) Klick makes the call on the elimination today - I want him to actually be responsible here today.
(2) Klick votes first in D4 tomorrow - I don't want him to be floating and kingmaking again tomorrow and talking to both players and "seeing their POV" etc or whatever. Give Klick a deadline of voting by the time 96 hours is on the timer - make him 1v1 someone and see if he will actually hold up under pressure.You are always gonna be my love-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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like the thing that makes me really concerned about saying the POE is exactly {Alisae, Gimli} is that this 1v1 feels very no holds barred fight to the death and those tend to be TvT more than TvS - because we only have two eliminations left and both of them feel like they are happy to make sure the last two eliminations are alisae - gimli in some order and that's not really winning for whoever is scum in that pair. Even if you win the 1v1 today which is very difficult you're dead like 99% of the time tomorrow so why are they even doing this play?You are always gonna be my love-
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Gimli he/himJack of All Tradeshe/him
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alisae did that to frame meIn post 1138, Aristeia wrote: I'm honestly not even that confident on Klick being last scum - like every person in the game kind of townread Klick - which is why it's really strange for Klick to not have been nightkilled N1 - instead the shot was on Wavelength?
then killed enchant instead of you cause e can't AtE to anyone else
is that a good enough explanation?-
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Gimli he/himJack of All Tradeshe/him
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the important thing is that andante felt trapped, and reacted accordingly, and spazzed out and voted klick. that doesn't happen in a svs, I don't think.In post 1136, Aristeia wrote:
he didn't trap Andante though?In post 1131, Alisae wrote: It would be really impressive wolf play to try to "trap" your own partner. They would have to be able to deceive their partner to do it.
I think it's funny that it's the same thing I repeated throughout d3 that alisae is using to clear klick, when e had no concise thoughts about the slot and was just writing klick off as a townie 'cause its just gimli'.-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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how does killing Wavelength frame you?In post 1141, Gimli wrote:
alisae did that to frame meIn post 1138, Aristeia wrote: I'm honestly not even that confident on Klick being last scum - like every person in the game kind of townread Klick - which is why it's really strange for Klick to not have been nightkilled N1 - instead the shot was on Wavelength?
then killed enchant instead of you cause e can't AtE to anyone else
is that a good enough explanation?You are always gonna be my love-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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Or she is trying to make them look not aligned?In post 1142, Gimli wrote: the important thing is that andante felt trapped, and reacted accordingly, and spazzed out and voted klick. that doesn't happen in a svs, I don't think.You are always gonna be my love-
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Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
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like people do things for a reason - do you think she was going to get Klick eliminated? Did you think it was going to make people townread her?You are always gonna be my love-
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Gimli he/himJack of All Tradeshe/him
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I know this is pretty egotistical but I want town to lose if alisae is town and is shit pushing my slot like this since d2. I don't normally play anything well, but my d1 was excellent and extremely towny. everyone in their right minds can see that I'm likely town, other than this loud potato head I'm having to endure.In post 1133, Alisae wrote: Sorry for screaming maybe I'll start playing mafia like a sane person again and remember that I need to actually try to "case" the other players to prove their innocence's to others if it really is just Gimli (which it is ofc)
I want alisae to realise, if town, that e is not even half as good as e thinks e is and is simply bad enough to hard throw a game just like everyone else is. and if e is mafia I don't want to reward that play with a victory. right now given the disingenuous way e is pushing me, I think it's just alisae. I can see the worlds in which is aureal, but would rather sheep klick's read.
if it's aureal and aureal is fooling everyone, that's great she can win
if it's klick I'll be surprised, and hand it to ari as being much better than me at gamesolving (which of course she is), but I can only vote klick if the mason forces my hand, and when it inevitably flips town I'm gonna be very very sad.
idk if I'm helping anyone by writing this out loud. gonna heat up some coffee and be around in a bit if people wanna talk.-
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Gimli he/himJack of All Tradeshe/him
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wave was scumreading me very stronglyIn post 1143, Aristeia wrote: how does killing Wavelength frame you?-
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Gimli he/himJack of All Tradeshe/him
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andante also spaz voted me when she returned to the thread with 3 votes. alisae saw that as distancing, the same way you're seeing the klick vote as distancing. feels like the same kind of reaction though, and it can't be distancing with both slots since one of us is necessarily town.In post 1145, Aristeia wrote: like people do things for a reason - do you think she was going to get Klick eliminated? Did you think it was going to make people townread her?
let me get caffeine in my blood. let's talk this out.-
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Gimli he/himJack of All Tradeshe/him
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Spoiler: klick's posts about andante before the 'trap'
@klick: are you a bus heavy scum player? maybe the game we played isn't a good comparison cause it was white flag. do you think you'd play d1 like that with scumdante?
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