Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame

[Aristeia]

unvoting the largest counterwagon to Aureal and voting for Alisae also doesn't really help Aureal.

If anything Klick should be asking Alisae to unvote if Klick is actually worried about Aureal getting quicklimmed?

[Alisae]

I'm honestly not even that confident on Klick being last scum - like every person in the game kind of townread Klick - which is why it's really strange for Klick to not have been nightkilled N1 - instead the shot was on Wavelength?

alisae did that to frame me

then killed enchant instead of you cause e can't AtE to anyone else

is that a good enough explanation?

how did I do that to frame you if I'm not specifically saying "Gimli killed wavelength."
I think the Wavelength kill makes sense if one wants to make my elimination easier down the line.
Shoot Klick makes my elimination harder, he wants my corpse! I could probably shoot him N1 and it would probably just translate into an easier game.

[Gimli]

there's only two possible explanations wrt wavelength being killed over klick

scum either did that to frame me as scum (and you came d2 guns blazing wanting my wolf pelt) or scum is klick who can't kill himself

that's what I think. I'm leaning towards you framing me, you don't have to say it out loud. someone will. wavelength kill makes me look wonky. klick alive makes me look wonky.

[Alisae]

I want to resolve Gimli today.
If it goes wrong, Gimli is the best flip. The Herta wagon was a significant wagon in this game and it gives light to that as well as checks off that box. I think getting the Gimli flip just makes the game easier to read in F3. If I did not get that flip in F3 and I was forced to vote between Aureal and Gimli, I would have a headache and I feel like this only ends in disaster if Aureal is actually a wolf. I don't think it is a wolf, but the anxiety will just absolutely destroy me.
Flipping Klick doesn't really help me read the game and help me figure it out. Would much prefer Gimli as I imagine it would be much more easier for me to re-evaluate once Gimli is dead. I feel like just bringing my 1v1 with Gimli into F3 is just a nightmare and it's best to try to resolve it now instead of betting the game on one of us being town.

[Alisae]

I just feel like if I'm mafia and I decided to bus my partner on D1 - I would play this game exactly the way Klick has. Just do it and try to lean back and let townies rip each other up while keeping my hands clean. Like every other person in this game feels like they just went straight at people's throats on d2/3 without really considering how it makes them look - Alisae, Myko, Gimli are all extremely aggressive and feel like tunneled townies - Aureal less so but at least Aureal voting right away. Meanwhile Klick is just kind of standing back and letting things fall where they may.

If you're mafia and you REPLACE INTO THE GAME
as PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER 1
are you saying you wouldn't try to bus Andante from that position the way Gimli has?

[Gimli]

now @aristeia do you see how alisae has no intention of talking through the 1v1 with me? I'd love to do things your way, I like your plan, I think you're playing solid mafia and I feel a little embarrassed for being part of what's potentially destroying town, but that's the game that's what we're going to do.

it's gonna be either me or alisae today, either me or alisae tomorrow. so let's get this done with.

[Alisae]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _to_bus%3F
- Both players are in positions where if things are where they stand, both partners are not townie enough to make endgame
- Andante has been really wolfy in thread and is liable to be connected to Gimli.

Are you saying you don't go for the bus in these conditions?

[Gimli]

you have already talked about this, alisae. you know what it looks like? it looks like the closest you can get from a boring af mechanical talk in order to scumread someone. 'he replaced' 'he scumread scum' 'he bus'. this isn't talking about my posts, my leans my thoughts my attitude my solve my interactions. it's pure garbage. talk about shit pushing someone.

[Alisae]

Yes I get that I sound like a broken record but it is the most probable and likely thing to have happened in the game.
I cannot unsee this as bussing, it just makes too much sense.

[Alisae]

Like you have so much you can get out of this bus it is just so worth the reward and you clearly went for it

[Gimli]

clearly I went for it

[Alisae]

It is your best play

[Gimli]

or I can be a townie with good reads you goddamn potato

[Alisae]

or I can be a townie with good reads you goddamn potato

who dun it then

[Gimli]

IDK but if it's not you I can probably figure it out better if you at least concede the possibility of being wrong

like you have 40 thousand posts you played so much mafia why are you so sure you're right? I'm sure you've been wrong so much already, I don't get the confidence. I agree with ari this isn't leading to an endgame plan so idk what to think of you.

[Alisae]

I would like to have confidence in my late game reads. Pride, Ego.
I've screamed for so many wolves to die in late game but no one ever listens to me and my reads are generally really game in the late game
Like I understand the weaknesses and strengths of my own play so from my perspective my play is fine EVEN if I'm wrong on you because if I'm wrong on you and I'm in F3 I know I will be able to bounce back.
Being able to identify bussing is one of my strengths, my late game reads are my other.

If I'm wrong on you then I would more likely to point the finger at Klick than you.
I don't think Aureal is a wolf here.
I think it's much more simpler to believe that Klick is playing his town game. Wolves don't trap other wolves in attempt to bus each other. Possible that maybe he plays like that, but that's just not realistic.
And you're not really trying to talk about either of these players, your thoughts on Aureal have not been nuanced, in fact I would say it's shallower than mine. At least you agree with me that Klick is just more likely to be town.

Seems like you just have to point the finger at me because it's unlikely you'll actually be able to move me to be anywhere else. If you're trying to move me onto Aureal you're not really that convincing.
If anything, the players you both want us to try to meet each other on are different and honestly, if you're a wolf, I don't think you would want to vote Klick today.

Like yes ofc I can be wrong and I've probably have been wrong in this situations before but if I doubt what I see and the things I'm good at then I'll just keep second guessing myself and going in the wrong directions.

[Aristeia]

now @aristeia do you see how alisae has no intention of talking through the 1v1 with me? I'd love to do things your way, I like your plan, I think you're playing solid mafia and I feel a little embarrassed for being part of what's potentially destroying town, but that's the game that's what we're going to do.

it's gonna be either me or alisae today, either me or alisae tomorrow. so let's get this done with.

ok but why does that make Alisae mafia?

Like if I'm mafia and I'm Alisae, I would think it is much easier to win if I get Klick mis-elimmed today, shoot Ari overnight, then tomorrow f3 with Ali/Aureal/Gimli is very easy to win because Aureal wants to kill Gimli.

Why would Alisae make it harder for Alisae by trying to win a 1v1 with you here today? Right now Klick wants to vote Alisae and Aureal is voting for Gimli so its 2/2 and she has maybe a 50% chance of getting me to vote for you over her at best?

Then even if she gets you today, tommorrow will be Klick/Aureal/Alisae and how is she going to survive that?

[Aristeia]

Like both of you seem to think Klick trapped Andante.

Read the part with the trap again - it did not lead to Andante getting eliminated -it's not like Klick started scumreading Andante for being caught in the trap or w/e, if anything Klick said it was NAI for Andante to not read?

[Aristeia]

Like why couldn't Klick & Andante have talked about the wagon on Andante and decided to do some theatre to make Klick look good in case it actually went through?

[Alisae]

Like both of you seem to think Klick trapped Andante.

Read the part with the trap again - it did not lead to Andante getting eliminated -it's not like Klick started scumreading Andante for being caught in the trap or w/e, if anything Klick said it was NAI for Andante to not read?

I don't really care about how it didn't get Andante eliminated, I just feel like that's a very uncommon way for wolves to interact with each other. Gimli being a wolf is just a much easier pill to swallow I think.

[Alisae]

Like why couldn't Klick & Andante have talked about the wagon on Andante and decided to do some theatre to make Klick look good in case it actually went through?

I don't think wolf!Klick thinks that wagon goes through, it's not really based on anything

[Alisae]

Just seems like the literal most non-simple answer one could think of

[Alisae]

Ari if Gimli flips town and Klick is alive at F3, I will vote Klick.
I will bet the game on Aureal being town.

[Klick]

I just feel like if I'm mafia and I decided to bus my partner on D1 - I would play this game exactly the way Klick has. Just do it and try to lean back and let townies rip each other up while keeping my hands clean. Like every other person in this game feels like they just went straight at people's throats on d2/3 without really considering how it makes them look - Alisae, Myko, Gimli are all extremely aggressive and feel like tunneled townies - Aureal less so but at least Aureal voting right away. Meanwhile Klick is just kind of standing back and letting things fall where they may.

I have a feeling if we mislim today - Klick will be the kingmaker on D4 and if he's scum he will win.

So if we decide to not lim Klick I want the following to happen:

(1) Klick makes the call on the elimination today - I want him to actually be responsible here today.
(2) Klick votes first in D4 tomorrow - I don't want him to be floating and kingmaking again tomorrow and talking to both players and "seeing their POV" etc or whatever. Give Klick a deadline of voting by the time 96 hours is on the timer - make him 1v1 someone and see if he will actually hold up under pressure.

These are both things that I'm very fine with happening fwiw.

I do agree that the things you're pushing are both true and would make my life easier if I'm scum

On the other hand, they are things that apply to basically every game that I've played lately and are intentional choices I make in my town play

In other words, this behaviour is verifiably not alignment-indicative

[Klick]

the important thing is that andante felt trapped, and reacted accordingly, and

spazzed

out and voted klick.

Please try to avoid using this word.