Open 874 - Donner Party - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.11

Votecount 1.11

Flea The Magician (3): furtiveglance, Gimli, Save The Dragons
Cephrir (2): biancospino, Detective Penguin
Detective Penguin (1): KawaiiKame
biancospino (1): Firebringer
KawaiiKame (1): Cephrir
Save The Dragons (1): NorwegianboyEE
Sail (1): Flea The Magician

Not Voting (2): Sail, DragonEater70

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lunch someone.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-03-05 17:48:08).

[Gimli]

bianco could be mafia, I'm expecting him to town it up if he is town

so far meh, was kinda townreading him for making shorter posts and *interacting* but that read is aging like a cup of milk

[Sail]

Bianco's analyses of STD's scumread of Cephrir in 534 and 551 is very good and show an inquisitive thought process. At the same time, I dislike this post:

Oh and pre-answering this likely question. Why am i focusing on finding SK here? Well dear reader, i’m angry i didn’t roll SK myself so i’m trying to ruin the day of the one that rolled it by exposing them early

So despite the fact you wanted to roll SK, you didn't bother checking how the SK worked?

Yup, got a problem with that?

That's kind of

weird

. After all a SK with no nightkill would be pretty much another role entirely, so I'd imagine you'd check at least that if you wanted a SK in your game

Bianco uses the word weird to shade Norwee for faking ignorance about the SK's mechanics. At the same time, this absolves bianco of any responsibility for pushing Norwee, and bianco does not explcitly scumread Norwee.

[Firebringer]

@sail i don't think that thought is that inquisitive because its just a strange thought to come across period. I don't think this is a person trying to understand someones alignment.

to me that looks surface level. Like what does it say about Norwee if he either didn't check or is playing ignorance. I don't think it could be argued strongly either way for that to mean anything

Also i don't think scum really try to do dumbtelling.
dumbtelling isn't alignment indicative:
source: I dumbtell all the time as either alignment

[Sail]

@sail i don't think that thought is that inquisitive because its just a strange thought to come across period. I don't think this is a person trying to understand someones alignment.

to me that looks surface level. Like what does it say about Norwee if he either didn't check or is playing ignorance. I don't think it could be argued strongly either way for that to mean anything

Also i don't think scum really try to do dumbtelling.
dumbtelling isn't alignment indicative:
source: I dumbtell all the time as either alignment

I wasn't talking about bianco's read of Norwee, I was talking about bianco's interaction with Cephrir - these are both in the same posts that I linked.

[Firebringer]

reading is hard

[Gimli]

VOTE: biancospino

let's try this for a while

[Sail]

I’m unfamiliar with Norwee’s meta, but why do you think that despite this, Norwee is town?

i think my post explains it what r u confused about

I may be misunderstanding something, but it seems like you had some doubt about your read on Norwee and that's why you discounted your read on him? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Firebringer, can you please answer this?

[Sail]

For now, I think I want to put my vote here: VOTE: DragonEater

[biancospino]

Bianco's analyses of STD's scumread of Cephrir in 534 and 551 is very good and show an inquisitive thought process. At the same time, I dislike this post:

Oh and pre-answering this likely question. Why am i focusing on finding SK here? Well dear reader, i’m angry i didn’t roll SK myself so i’m trying to ruin the day of the one that rolled it by exposing them early

So despite the fact you wanted to roll SK, you didn't bother checking how the SK worked?

Yup, got a problem with that?

That's kind of

weird

. After all a SK with no nightkill would be pretty much another role entirely, so I'd imagine you'd check at least that if you wanted a SK in your game

Bianco uses the word weird to shade Norwee for faking ignorance about the SK's mechanics. At the same time, this absolves bianco of any responsibility for pushing Norwee, and bianco does not explcitly scumread Norwee.

It absolves me of nothing, I think it was pretty explicit in affirming that the ignorance looks feigned to me.

@sail i don't think that thought is that inquisitive because its just a strange thought to come across period. I don't think this is a person trying to understand someones alignment.

to me that looks surface level. Like what does it say about Norwee if he either didn't check or is playing ignorance. I don't think it could be argued strongly either way for that to mean anything

Also i don't think scum really try to do dumbtelling.
dumbtelling isn't alignment indicative:
source: I dumbtell all the time as either alignment

Sure, I'm not currently voting Norwee, I would if I thought playing dumb did necessarily imply SK.

Btw, to answer @fire's open-ended question, if gth I had to eat someone tonight, and the day ended rn, I would eat him. Not because I'm necessarily convinced he

must

be scum, in fact if he is I think CK is likelier than Cannibal, but because he's a distraction anyway that we would be better removing from people's poes one way or the other.

[biancospino]

VOTE: Sail

Seasoned player ignoring someone who can probably get the grasp of them quickly? Nah not about that life.

Spoiler:

SING TO MEEEEE by Delain.
5 posts ish per spoiler?

Spoiler: Happy tears fade fast, sad tears tend to last

@Flea, could you clarify #311 please?

yes I can, My brain did the wonderful thing of actually forgetting we never actually commented and just YEET.
Time go wibble.

Spoiler: 311

It would probably be ideal to get serial killer first assuming they have nightkill

And this.

Cereal Killer is a single person faction, and a threat to scum as much as town. Maf would prioritise the CK imo

Only thing i find strange about that post is norwee saying "assuming they have night kill" cause ive never heard of cereal killer with no nightkill.

what ur point?

My point is Yes we have 2 nightkills to stand against, we aren't going to find the SK this early, and currently they're as much a threat to us as they are to the mafia. We don't have kill power in this setup, and SK marches to their own drum. Mafia and SK in YOLO puts town as kingmaker. Mafia need SK gone more than we do at the moment.
Norwee prioritising SK this early is hella sus to me for this reason.

---

Also i wasn’t "3P" hunting and scumtelling because "only scum hunt SK" Flea. I was pointing out that from an mechanics standpoint it’s way better to kill the SK as early as possible because that limits the amount of kills from anti-town roles. This was an indirect answer to your question on what you thought was best between killing mafia or a SK today. Whether we actually hit scum at all today is the most important thing.

Oh I do love an early tell showdown.
Especially when its the over-explaining tell.
Annoyingly I think this one is NAI for you if my memory serves. For a D1 case, "only scum hunt SK" is brilliant for putting things into motion, I don't actually put that much credence into it beyond mid D1.

This leads to me asking you why give me an indirect answer to a question that wasn't even aimed at you? Just as importantly, Why give such a defensive response to the mildest of suspicion and end with a blanket statement that's true and NAI for ALL roles in this game?

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

🌶 - 1/10 on the spicy scale.
I would add a normal comment but we're under stricter moderation again ain't we and I don't wanna risk it.

---

Why'd you move over to Ceph?

They are the scummiest in my eyes atm.

Curious to know who else you think is scummy, given your justification for VOTE:Cephrir being your scummiest is so weak it doesn't even make the spicy scale.

---

Having another look at it, Sail hasn't posted at all and I'm really unsure what the perspectives of both Flea and Bianco are. IDK if that makes them scummier or not, but I'd at least want to get Cephrir to E-2 for info before chasing another wagon. I definitely didn't get anything townie from Ceph.

Pedit: or we could go for Furtive. I guess they are actually quite deserving of a wagon ATM.

Before I change my vote, @Furtive please explain these two posts:

VOTE: Detective Penguin

I have an idea.

VOTE: Death Stare

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

Another Pedit: I actually didn't forget Bianco as you can see.

Never ever try and get my perspective. I come from a place of insanity and 9 times out of 10 I can't even remember what the hell I've posted.

Spoiler: You've got your blood stained heart, in your nicotine stained hands.

it's very jada essensce hall "LOOK OVER THERE"

yeah but would cephrir scum be that lazy

Actually would though...

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Did you know Rifle Spoons are a thing? I didn't, I was hoping to find a spoon bayonet thingie but found something so much better

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

thinking on this again does norwee town actually believe he would get elimmed this fast in a game? I don't think so.

This sounds like purposeful overreaction than really annoyance? Or maybe he is just trying to be adamant that he won't give what i want. easy read.

wow. I circled around to feeling this is 3d chess move.
ehhhhhhhh

ill say town still

I would actually say yes. Norwee isn't exactly great under pressure from memory regardless of alignment. I'm interested to see responses to stuff in the spoiler above.

Spoiler: And your 29 years did not help you pass

Am I producing enough content for you yet dragoneater

It's good enough for me to prefer a Furtive wagon over you, ig?

The sass of VOTE:Cephrir combined with the flatness of this response is just amazing.

---

Ur straight up bad at reading me then love this is an easy one

Tbf every game I've played with your gorgeous duo, this always happens. Like the day I'm in a game where Fenrir doesn't scumread your ass D1 is the day I just turbolim you both ngl.

---

Nothing until we actually have some flips.

Presenting: The reason I hate D1.

---

VOTE: KawaiiKame

So many posts so little content

This game is confusing, when I'm in confusion I don't pay attention, lemme attempt to be real

Norwee throwing up his hands and leaving in frustration is tai, being genuinely upset when close to being eliminated feels town when in the opening game, hopefully he's okay, Idk why it's being called a gold mine/treasure hunt unless the meaning is an info mine, that's what I'm counting on to have hope of solving this game

dragoneating is town to me since I like the engagement in attempting to solve/asking questions

I need to analyze the vote pushes between norwee vs. penguin though Idk if anything is in it

I voted Penguin since it's fun

fires seem to be the leader of this day, probably/hopefully town

I haven't read enough in depth to know about anyone else besides Penguin, Penguin seems chill

Growlithe usually needs a Fire Stone to lead, honestly I'm going to disagree with a large chunk of this post, its easier to go with what I do agree with.

Penguin is p chill. The "gold mine" isn't a big enough vein to set up on but we can pan for gold there at least. we might get a lil bit.

---

why did u vote me

set a new trend idk

It's not a new trend, trust me. You saw what happened on the Good Ship Mutiny.

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

Wait that's a thing?
I don't even read the first 10 pages usually xD I enter when I enter and the game for me doesn't exist before that. :3

Spoiler: All the roadkill, cheap thrill, obstacle-filled path

Get furtive to E-1. Sail is replaced by Not_Mafia and instant hammers.
imagine that

🌶🌶🌶 - 3/10
Paranoia or concern... hm....

---

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

yeah I want that too

Spoiler: The pages, collapsed by Flea

Spoiler: Page 1

bianco's joke feels a bit forced. Firebringer tunnelling Norwee out the gate might be +town because scum would feel bad about doing that.

Spoiler: Page 2

This is entirely fluff.

Spoiler: Page 3

Gimli's entrance is slightly +town. I'm also thinking Kawaii is town based on my expectations of new players.

Spoiler: Page 4

TvT vibes from Gimli and FB.

Spoiler: Page 5

bianco question is slightly +scum.

Spoiler: Page 6

Norwee's entrance is +town, Flea's is +scum.

Spoiler: Page 7

Norwee is very town, not for the SK nightkill thing but I do buy that as genuine. Flea 170 could be a lazy pocket.

Spoiler: Page 8

I don't think 181 is +town, the opposite actually. I've found that Mafia are often self-deprecating in this way.

Spoiler: Page 9

DragonEater70 entrance is +town, Cephrir null.

Spoiler: Page 10

STD comes in, nothing to read into really so null.

VOTE: Flea The Magician

VOTE: flea

GODS DAMN IT PUT SOME CLOTHES ON.
Nekkidness everywhere. Yeesh. At least I have me undercrackers on...

---

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

A challenger has appeared...
Can't wait to see you post more, your use of language is intriguing.

---

And Cereal kill.

i would never kill cereal.
Thats just barbaric

my mafia kills goes to Norwee

Really starting to get the openwolf vibe from you.

---

i don't think im nearly as good at reading u as cephrir tbh

Honestly I don't think StD is good at reading VOTE:Cephrir.

Spoiler: White lies, black dress, brightest of darkness

last time flea was scum fae was really busy so busy always busy never catching up never doing anything never producing reads

but ofc this time it can be NAI

You've had one game with me as scum, and I was caught up pretty regular, in contrast to my usual forever-in-catchup MO of scum in large.
So who's alt are you?

It's also almost like I have a life and health conditions that keep me busy... both of which are actually fairly well documented around the site

---

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

Cool. You're definitely well seasoned at this, how did you place on the MU tournament championship things?

---

VOTE: Flea

Put it away VOTE:Cephrir, nobody wants to see your naked ass... except maybe StD...

You close your tear-stained eyes to your silver-lined madness
After 29 years, you might want to confess
That we have made a fucked-up place that I can not erase

I read through all that performance

I think it was towny

I don't wanna flip flea anymore

The thing is, yes it has a townie vibe but if you read it carefully it's mostly fluffy commentary with very little game advancing opinions on who's scum and who's town. It kinda nudges me the wrong way, but it still feels townie in vibe.
IDK, does anyone here know Flea's meta well? Or can link to past games of theirs?

From scrolling through Flea’s ISO in HMS Mutiny I see the exact same thing that Gimli’s saying. I think this is +town for Flea and slightly +town for Gimli.

Curious, you read my ISO on HMS Mutiny, didn't read my post here - or if you did ignored my question.
Whats the difference you're seeing between here and Mutiny?

On a vacuum I wouldn't like this, as it fabricates a reson for a vote that looks credible but it's really just a nothingburger, but then again Sail is a pretty high hanging fruit at the moment, or at least I get the sense that he's pretty generally TR'd. I don't think this is the direction a scum wanting to appear solvey would go

[Cephrir]

Firebringer isn't a distraction, it's the mafia game that's distracting us from him

[biancospino]

"Him" is Norwee there

[DragonEater70]

For now, I think I want to put my vote here: VOTE: DragonEater

Appreciate it, I was worried the whole day was gonna pass without me getting a single vote. :p

[DragonEater70]

Tbh I'm too tired to read and comment on the ast 3 pages, I'll hopefully do that later.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: bianco

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wow, i’m being called an "distraction"

[Gimli]

furtive/std townies and killing scum I think

(bianco, flea) should def contain at least one of them. from std it could be early bussing but I think furtive is just using his detective hat this game

[Sail]

It absolves me of nothing, I think it was pretty explicit in affirming that the ignorance looks feigned to me.

My point is that the push isn't really explicit, and it seems like you're skirting around actually pushing Norwee.

[furtiveglance]

Sail get your wag on

[Flea The Magician]

One very angry phone call later, I have internet. Lets see what happened shall we?

[Flea The Magician]

SING TO MEEEEE by Delain.
5 posts ish per spoiler?

Spoiler: Happy tears fade fast, sad tears tend to last

@Flea, could you clarify #311 please?

yes I can, My brain did the wonderful thing of actually forgetting we never actually commented and just YEET.
Time go wibble.

Spoiler: 311

It would probably be ideal to get serial killer first assuming they have nightkill

And this.

Cereal Killer is a single person faction, and a threat to scum as much as town. Maf would prioritise the CK imo

Only thing i find strange about that post is norwee saying "assuming they have night kill" cause ive never heard of cereal killer with no nightkill.

what ur point?

My point is Yes we have 2 nightkills to stand against, we aren't going to find the SK this early, and currently they're as much a threat to us as they are to the mafia. We don't have kill power in this setup, and SK marches to their own drum. Mafia and SK in YOLO puts town as kingmaker. Mafia need SK gone more than we do at the moment.
Norwee prioritising SK this early is hella sus to me for this reason.

---

Also i wasn’t "3P" hunting and scumtelling because "only scum hunt SK" Flea. I was pointing out that from an mechanics standpoint it’s way better to kill the SK as early as possible because that limits the amount of kills from anti-town roles. This was an indirect answer to your question on what you thought was best between killing mafia or a SK today. Whether we actually hit scum at all today is the most important thing.

Oh I do love an early tell showdown.
Especially when its the over-explaining tell.
Annoyingly I think this one is NAI for you if my memory serves. For a D1 case, "only scum hunt SK" is brilliant for putting things into motion, I don't actually put that much credence into it beyond mid D1.

This leads to me asking you why give me an indirect answer to a question that wasn't even aimed at you? Just as importantly, Why give such a defensive response to the mildest of suspicion and end with a blanket statement that's true and NAI for ALL roles in this game?

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

🌶 - 1/10 on the spicy scale.
I would add a normal comment but we're under stricter moderation again ain't we and I don't wanna risk it.

---

Why'd you move over to Ceph?

They are the scummiest in my eyes atm.

Curious to know who else you think is scummy, given your justification for VOTE:Cephrir being your scummiest is so weak it doesn't even make the spicy scale.

---

Having another look at it, Sail hasn't posted at all and I'm really unsure what the perspectives of both Flea and Bianco are. IDK if that makes them scummier or not, but I'd at least want to get Cephrir to E-2 for info before chasing another wagon. I definitely didn't get anything townie from Ceph.

Pedit: or we could go for Furtive. I guess they are actually quite deserving of a wagon ATM.

Before I change my vote, @Furtive please explain these two posts:

VOTE: Detective Penguin

I have an idea.

VOTE: Death Stare

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

Another Pedit: I actually didn't forget Bianco as you can see.

Never ever try and get my perspective. I come from a place of insanity and 9 times out of 10 I can't even remember what the hell I've posted.

Spoiler: You've got your blood stained heart, in your nicotine stained hands.

it's very jada essensce hall "LOOK OVER THERE"

yeah but would cephrir scum be that lazy

Actually would though...

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Did you know Rifle Spoons are a thing? I didn't, I was hoping to find a spoon bayonet thingie but found something so much better

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

thinking on this again does norwee town actually believe he would get elimmed this fast in a game? I don't think so.

This sounds like purposeful overreaction than really annoyance? Or maybe he is just trying to be adamant that he won't give what i want. easy read.

wow. I circled around to feeling this is 3d chess move.
ehhhhhhhh

ill say town still

I would actually say yes. Norwee isn't exactly great under pressure from memory regardless of alignment. I'm interested to see responses to stuff in the spoiler above.

Spoiler: And your 29 years did not help you pass

Am I producing enough content for you yet dragoneater

It's good enough for me to prefer a Furtive wagon over you, ig?

The sass of VOTE:Cephrir combined with the flatness of this response is just amazing.

---

Ur straight up bad at reading me then love this is an easy one

Tbf every game I've played with your gorgeous duo, this always happens. Like the day I'm in a game where Fenrir doesn't scumread your ass D1 is the day I just turbolim you both ngl.

---

Nothing until we actually have some flips.

Presenting: The reason I hate D1.

---

VOTE: KawaiiKame

So many posts so little content

This game is confusing, when I'm in confusion I don't pay attention, lemme attempt to be real

Norwee throwing up his hands and leaving in frustration is tai, being genuinely upset when close to being eliminated feels town when in the opening game, hopefully he's okay, Idk why it's being called a gold mine/treasure hunt unless the meaning is an info mine, that's what I'm counting on to have hope of solving this game

dragoneating is town to me since I like the engagement in attempting to solve/asking questions

I need to analyze the vote pushes between norwee vs. penguin though Idk if anything is in it

I voted Penguin since it's fun

fires seem to be the leader of this day, probably/hopefully town

I haven't read enough in depth to know about anyone else besides Penguin, Penguin seems chill

Growlithe usually needs a Fire Stone to lead, honestly I'm going to disagree with a large chunk of this post, its easier to go with what I do agree with.

Penguin is p chill. The "gold mine" isn't a big enough vein to set up on but we can pan for gold there at least. we might get a lil bit.

---

why did u vote me

set a new trend idk

It's not a new trend, trust me. You saw what happened on the Good Ship Mutiny.

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

Wait that's a thing?
I don't even read the first 10 pages usually xD I enter when I enter and the game for me doesn't exist before that. :3

Spoiler: All the roadkill, cheap thrill, obstacle-filled path

Get furtive to E-1. Sail is replaced by Not_Mafia and instant hammers.
imagine that

🌶🌶🌶 - 3/10
Paranoia or concern... hm....

---

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

yeah I want that too

Spoiler: The pages, collapsed by Flea

Spoiler: Page 1

bianco's joke feels a bit forced. Firebringer tunnelling Norwee out the gate might be +town because scum would feel bad about doing that.

Spoiler: Page 2

This is entirely fluff.

Spoiler: Page 3

Gimli's entrance is slightly +town. I'm also thinking Kawaii is town based on my expectations of new players.

Spoiler: Page 4

TvT vibes from Gimli and FB.

Spoiler: Page 5

bianco question is slightly +scum.

Spoiler: Page 6

Norwee's entrance is +town, Flea's is +scum.

Spoiler: Page 7

Norwee is very town, not for the SK nightkill thing but I do buy that as genuine. Flea 170 could be a lazy pocket.

Spoiler: Page 8

I don't think 181 is +town, the opposite actually. I've found that Mafia are often self-deprecating in this way.

Spoiler: Page 9

DragonEater70 entrance is +town, Cephrir null.

Spoiler: Page 10

STD comes in, nothing to read into really so null.

VOTE: Flea The Magician

VOTE: flea

GODS DAMN IT PUT SOME CLOTHES ON.
Nekkidness everywhere. Yeesh. At least I have me undercrackers on...

---

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

A challenger has appeared...
Can't wait to see you post more, your use of language is intriguing.

---

And Cereal kill.

i would never kill cereal.
Thats just barbaric

my mafia kills goes to Norwee

Really starting to get the openwolf vibe from you.

---

i don't think im nearly as good at reading u as cephrir tbh

Honestly I don't think StD is good at reading VOTE:Cephrir.

Spoiler: White lies, black dress, brightest of darkness

last time flea was scum fae was really busy so busy always busy never catching up never doing anything never producing reads

but ofc this time it can be NAI

You've had one game with me as scum, and I was caught up pretty regular, in contrast to my usual forever-in-catchup MO of scum in large.
So who's alt are you?

It's also almost like I have a life and health conditions that keep me busy... both of which are actually fairly well documented around the site

---

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

Cool. You're definitely well seasoned at this, how did you place on the MU tournament championship things?

---

VOTE: Flea

Put it away VOTE:Cephrir, nobody wants to see your naked ass... except maybe StD...

You close your tear-stained eyes to your silver-lined madness
After 29 years, you might want to confess
That we have made a fucked-up place that I can not erase

I read through all that performance

I think it was towny

I don't wanna flip flea anymore

The thing is, yes it has a townie vibe but if you read it carefully it's mostly fluffy commentary with very little game advancing opinions on who's scum and who's town. It kinda nudges me the wrong way, but it still feels townie in vibe.
IDK, does anyone here know Flea's meta well? Or can link to past games of theirs?

From scrolling through Flea’s ISO in HMS Mutiny I see the exact same thing that Gimli’s saying. I think this is +town for Flea and slightly +town for Gimli.

Curious, you read my ISO on HMS Mutiny, didn't read my post here - or if you did ignored my question.
Whats the difference you're seeing between here and Mutiny?

I did read your post here. In fact, I responded to one of the points about Cephrir that you made in your post. Are you talking about this?

Cool. You're definitely well seasoned at this, how did you place on the MU tournament championship things?

I thought this was a joke/non-serious. I am not well-seasoned at mafia, I've played forum mafia on-and-off for the past 3 years and chat mafia on-and-off for the past 5 years.

You're not well seasoned, despite 3 yearsish forum maf experience, pass off a follow up question as non serious and just respond with what you've already stated.

And you're still not answering what you see here that you didn't there... unless there's another post further down....

I'm a bit lazy to scroll through the entire ISO (or even more than a handful of posts). What I did see is that in Mutiny, Scum!Flea was putting on a pretense of scumhunting and participating which I don't really see here, and which actually made me townread them in Mutiny. So I guess bc they are scummier they are town? Is that what you guys are seeing?

In that game, it seemed that Flea cared a lot more about how other people saw them. Flea felt more of a need to justify their, albeit valid, reasons why they were away/not reading than in this game. What most stuck out to me about Flea's ISO in HMS Mutiny is that it seemed like Flea was either faking being friendly, or Flea was more nervous - I can't tell which. Either way, I don't perceive this to be how Flea is playing in this game.

Yup. There's another one.
I never fake being friendly, and nerves are something that don't bother me in games.

Thing is, I'm hard to pin down as either alignment, as Gimli is currently learning. Dragons probably got the better measure of my play tbh. Scummier I look, townier I am.

[Flea The Magician]

especially if what fae is complaining that sail is ignoring faer is a silly question about a position in a tournament. like ?????????

You have anything better to do than provide commentary? Like hunting maybe?

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Sail

Seasoned player ignoring someone who can probably get the grasp of them quickly? Nah not about that life.

Spoiler:

SING TO MEEEEE by Delain.
5 posts ish per spoiler?

Spoiler: Happy tears fade fast, sad tears tend to last

@Flea, could you clarify #311 please?

yes I can, My brain did the wonderful thing of actually forgetting we never actually commented and just YEET.
Time go wibble.

Spoiler: 311

It would probably be ideal to get serial killer first assuming they have nightkill

And this.

Cereal Killer is a single person faction, and a threat to scum as much as town. Maf would prioritise the CK imo

Only thing i find strange about that post is norwee saying "assuming they have night kill" cause ive never heard of cereal killer with no nightkill.

what ur point?

My point is Yes we have 2 nightkills to stand against, we aren't going to find the SK this early, and currently they're as much a threat to us as they are to the mafia. We don't have kill power in this setup, and SK marches to their own drum. Mafia and SK in YOLO puts town as kingmaker. Mafia need SK gone more than we do at the moment.
Norwee prioritising SK this early is hella sus to me for this reason.

---

Also i wasn’t "3P" hunting and scumtelling because "only scum hunt SK" Flea. I was pointing out that from an mechanics standpoint it’s way better to kill the SK as early as possible because that limits the amount of kills from anti-town roles. This was an indirect answer to your question on what you thought was best between killing mafia or a SK today. Whether we actually hit scum at all today is the most important thing.

Oh I do love an early tell showdown.
Especially when its the over-explaining tell.
Annoyingly I think this one is NAI for you if my memory serves. For a D1 case, "only scum hunt SK" is brilliant for putting things into motion, I don't actually put that much credence into it beyond mid D1.

This leads to me asking you why give me an indirect answer to a question that wasn't even aimed at you? Just as importantly, Why give such a defensive response to the mildest of suspicion and end with a blanket statement that's true and NAI for ALL roles in this game?

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

🌶 - 1/10 on the spicy scale.
I would add a normal comment but we're under stricter moderation again ain't we and I don't wanna risk it.

---

Why'd you move over to Ceph?

They are the scummiest in my eyes atm.

Curious to know who else you think is scummy, given your justification for VOTE:Cephrir being your scummiest is so weak it doesn't even make the spicy scale.

---

Having another look at it, Sail hasn't posted at all and I'm really unsure what the perspectives of both Flea and Bianco are. IDK if that makes them scummier or not, but I'd at least want to get Cephrir to E-2 for info before chasing another wagon. I definitely didn't get anything townie from Ceph.

Pedit: or we could go for Furtive. I guess they are actually quite deserving of a wagon ATM.

Before I change my vote, @Furtive please explain these two posts:

VOTE: Detective Penguin

I have an idea.

VOTE: Death Stare

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

Another Pedit: I actually didn't forget Bianco as you can see.

Never ever try and get my perspective. I come from a place of insanity and 9 times out of 10 I can't even remember what the hell I've posted.

Spoiler: You've got your blood stained heart, in your nicotine stained hands.

it's very jada essensce hall "LOOK OVER THERE"

yeah but would cephrir scum be that lazy

Actually would though...

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Did you know Rifle Spoons are a thing? I didn't, I was hoping to find a spoon bayonet thingie but found something so much better

---

hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

---

Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

thinking on this again does norwee town actually believe he would get elimmed this fast in a game? I don't think so.

This sounds like purposeful overreaction than really annoyance? Or maybe he is just trying to be adamant that he won't give what i want. easy read.

wow. I circled around to feeling this is 3d chess move.
ehhhhhhhh

ill say town still

I would actually say yes. Norwee isn't exactly great under pressure from memory regardless of alignment. I'm interested to see responses to stuff in the spoiler above.

Spoiler: And your 29 years did not help you pass

Am I producing enough content for you yet dragoneater

It's good enough for me to prefer a Furtive wagon over you, ig?

The sass of VOTE:Cephrir combined with the flatness of this response is just amazing.

---

Ur straight up bad at reading me then love this is an easy one

Tbf every game I've played with your gorgeous duo, this always happens. Like the day I'm in a game where Fenrir doesn't scumread your ass D1 is the day I just turbolim you both ngl.

---

Nothing until we actually have some flips.

Presenting: The reason I hate D1.

---

VOTE: KawaiiKame

So many posts so little content

This game is confusing, when I'm in confusion I don't pay attention, lemme attempt to be real

Norwee throwing up his hands and leaving in frustration is tai, being genuinely upset when close to being eliminated feels town when in the opening game, hopefully he's okay, Idk why it's being called a gold mine/treasure hunt unless the meaning is an info mine, that's what I'm counting on to have hope of solving this game

dragoneating is town to me since I like the engagement in attempting to solve/asking questions

I need to analyze the vote pushes between norwee vs. penguin though Idk if anything is in it

I voted Penguin since it's fun

fires seem to be the leader of this day, probably/hopefully town

I haven't read enough in depth to know about anyone else besides Penguin, Penguin seems chill

Growlithe usually needs a Fire Stone to lead, honestly I'm going to disagree with a large chunk of this post, its easier to go with what I do agree with.

Penguin is p chill. The "gold mine" isn't a big enough vein to set up on but we can pan for gold there at least. we might get a lil bit.

---

why did u vote me

set a new trend idk

It's not a new trend, trust me. You saw what happened on the Good Ship Mutiny.

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

Wait that's a thing?
I don't even read the first 10 pages usually xD I enter when I enter and the game for me doesn't exist before that. :3

Spoiler: All the roadkill, cheap thrill, obstacle-filled path

Get furtive to E-1. Sail is replaced by Not_Mafia and instant hammers.
imagine that

🌶🌶🌶 - 3/10
Paranoia or concern... hm....

---

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

yeah I want that too

Spoiler: The pages, collapsed by Flea

Spoiler: Page 1

bianco's joke feels a bit forced. Firebringer tunnelling Norwee out the gate might be +town because scum would feel bad about doing that.

Spoiler: Page 2

This is entirely fluff.

Spoiler: Page 3

Gimli's entrance is slightly +town. I'm also thinking Kawaii is town based on my expectations of new players.

Spoiler: Page 4

TvT vibes from Gimli and FB.

Spoiler: Page 5

bianco question is slightly +scum.

Spoiler: Page 6

Norwee's entrance is +town, Flea's is +scum.

Spoiler: Page 7

Norwee is very town, not for the SK nightkill thing but I do buy that as genuine. Flea 170 could be a lazy pocket.

Spoiler: Page 8

I don't think 181 is +town, the opposite actually. I've found that Mafia are often self-deprecating in this way.

Spoiler: Page 9

DragonEater70 entrance is +town, Cephrir null.

Spoiler: Page 10

STD comes in, nothing to read into really so null.

VOTE: Flea The Magician

VOTE: flea

GODS DAMN IT PUT SOME CLOTHES ON.
Nekkidness everywhere. Yeesh. At least I have me undercrackers on...

---

you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

A challenger has appeared...
Can't wait to see you post more, your use of language is intriguing.

---

And Cereal kill.

i would never kill cereal.
Thats just barbaric

my mafia kills goes to Norwee

Really starting to get the openwolf vibe from you.

---

i don't think im nearly as good at reading u as cephrir tbh

Honestly I don't think StD is good at reading VOTE:Cephrir.

Spoiler: White lies, black dress, brightest of darkness

last time flea was scum fae was really busy so busy always busy never catching up never doing anything never producing reads

but ofc this time it can be NAI

You've had one game with me as scum, and I was caught up pretty regular, in contrast to my usual forever-in-catchup MO of scum in large.
So who's alt are you?

It's also almost like I have a life and health conditions that keep me busy... both of which are actually fairly well documented around the site

---

I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

Cool. You're definitely well seasoned at this, how did you place on the MU tournament championship things?

---

VOTE: Flea

Put it away VOTE:Cephrir, nobody wants to see your naked ass... except maybe StD...

You close your tear-stained eyes to your silver-lined madness
After 29 years, you might want to confess
That we have made a fucked-up place that I can not erase

I read through all that performance

I think it was towny

I don't wanna flip flea anymore

The thing is, yes it has a townie vibe but if you read it carefully it's mostly fluffy commentary with very little game advancing opinions on who's scum and who's town. It kinda nudges me the wrong way, but it still feels townie in vibe.
IDK, does anyone here know Flea's meta well? Or can link to past games of theirs?

From scrolling through Flea’s ISO in HMS Mutiny I see the exact same thing that Gimli’s saying. I think this is +town for Flea and slightly +town for Gimli.

Curious, you read my ISO on HMS Mutiny, didn't read my post here - or if you did ignored my question.
Whats the difference you're seeing between here and Mutiny?

On a vacuum I wouldn't like this, as it fabricates a reson for a vote that looks credible but it's really just a nothingburger, but then again Sail is a pretty high hanging fruit at the moment, or at least I get the sense that he's pretty generally TR'd. I don't think this is the direction a scum wanting to appear solvey would go

You're going to hate me. <3

[Detective Penguin]

his detective hat this game

I take umbrage with this...real detectives don't wear hats.

Also, what is it in furtive's interactions with this game that makes you think he is actually doing this (apart from him appealing to your ego)? Because I don't see it at all.