Open 874 - Donner Party - Postgame

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Sail

Seasoned player ignoring someone who can probably get the grasp of them quickly? Nah not about that life.

Spoiler:

SING TO MEEEEE by Delain.
5 posts ish per spoiler?

Spoiler: Happy tears fade fast, sad tears tend to last

@Flea, could you clarify #311 please?

yes I can, My brain did the wonderful thing of actually forgetting we never actually commented and just YEET.
Time go wibble.

Spoiler: 311

It would probably be ideal to get serial killer first assuming they have nightkill

And this.

Cereal Killer is a single person faction, and a threat to scum as much as town. Maf would prioritise the CK imo

Only thing i find strange about that post is norwee saying "assuming they have night kill" cause ive never heard of cereal killer with no nightkill.

what ur point?

My point is Yes we have 2 nightkills to stand against, we aren't going to find the SK this early, and currently they're as much a threat to us as they are to the mafia. We don't have kill power in this setup, and SK marches to their own drum. Mafia and SK in YOLO puts town as kingmaker. Mafia need SK gone more than we do at the moment.
Norwee prioritising SK this early is hella sus to me for this reason.

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Also i wasn’t "3P" hunting and scumtelling because "only scum hunt SK" Flea. I was pointing out that from an mechanics standpoint it’s way better to kill the SK as early as possible because that limits the amount of kills from anti-town roles. This was an indirect answer to your question on what you thought was best between killing mafia or a SK today. Whether we actually hit scum at all today is the most important thing.

Oh I do love an early tell showdown.
Especially when its the over-explaining tell.
Annoyingly I think this one is NAI for you if my memory serves. For a D1 case, "only scum hunt SK" is brilliant for putting things into motion, I don't actually put that much credence into it beyond mid D1.

This leads to me asking you why give me an indirect answer to a question that wasn't even aimed at you? Just as importantly, Why give such a defensive response to the mildest of suspicion and end with a blanket statement that's true and NAI for ALL roles in this game?

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Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

🌶 - 1/10 on the spicy scale.
I would add a normal comment but we're under stricter moderation again ain't we and I don't wanna risk it.

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Why'd you move over to Ceph?

They are the scummiest in my eyes atm.

Curious to know who else you think is scummy, given your justification for VOTE:Cephrir being your scummiest is so weak it doesn't even make the spicy scale.

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Having another look at it, Sail hasn't posted at all and I'm really unsure what the perspectives of both Flea and Bianco are. IDK if that makes them scummier or not, but I'd at least want to get Cephrir to E-2 for info before chasing another wagon. I definitely didn't get anything townie from Ceph.

Pedit: or we could go for Furtive. I guess they are actually quite deserving of a wagon ATM.

Before I change my vote, @Furtive please explain these two posts:

VOTE: Detective Penguin

I have an idea.

VOTE: Death Stare

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

Another Pedit: I actually didn't forget Bianco as you can see.

Never ever try and get my perspective. I come from a place of insanity and 9 times out of 10 I can't even remember what the hell I've posted.

Spoiler: You've got your blood stained heart, in your nicotine stained hands.

it's very jada essensce hall "LOOK OVER THERE"

yeah but would cephrir scum be that lazy

Actually would though...

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hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Did you know Rifle Spoons are a thing? I didn't, I was hoping to find a spoon bayonet thingie but found something so much better

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hey cephrir u have a gun
who would u eat right now

Furtive. Struggles to post as scum

Disagree. Has been a while admittedly, and I also think we're a little early to be dropping lines like that.

Scrolling sees that you admit you're wrong, cool. Still don't like how early that lines come out.

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Ok so i’ve done nothing and get wagoned wtf do u guys expect. I’m already tired today and i’m not gonna "become easy to read" like Fire apparently thinks will happen. In fact i’m just gonna go chill cus this game seems annoying now. Mislim me for nothing if y’all want, don’t care at all.

thinking on this again does norwee town actually believe he would get elimmed this fast in a game? I don't think so.

This sounds like purposeful overreaction than really annoyance? Or maybe he is just trying to be adamant that he won't give what i want. easy read.

wow. I circled around to feeling this is 3d chess move.
ehhhhhhhh

ill say town still

I would actually say yes. Norwee isn't exactly great under pressure from memory regardless of alignment. I'm interested to see responses to stuff in the spoiler above.

Spoiler: And your 29 years did not help you pass

Am I producing enough content for you yet dragoneater

It's good enough for me to prefer a Furtive wagon over you, ig?

The sass of VOTE:Cephrir combined with the flatness of this response is just amazing.

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Ur straight up bad at reading me then love this is an easy one

Tbf every game I've played with your gorgeous duo, this always happens. Like the day I'm in a game where Fenrir doesn't scumread your ass D1 is the day I just turbolim you both ngl.

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Nothing until we actually have some flips.

Presenting: The reason I hate D1.

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VOTE: KawaiiKame

So many posts so little content

This game is confusing, when I'm in confusion I don't pay attention, lemme attempt to be real

Norwee throwing up his hands and leaving in frustration is tai, being genuinely upset when close to being eliminated feels town when in the opening game, hopefully he's okay, Idk why it's being called a gold mine/treasure hunt unless the meaning is an info mine, that's what I'm counting on to have hope of solving this game

dragoneating is town to me since I like the engagement in attempting to solve/asking questions

I need to analyze the vote pushes between norwee vs. penguin though Idk if anything is in it

I voted Penguin since it's fun

fires seem to be the leader of this day, probably/hopefully town

I haven't read enough in depth to know about anyone else besides Penguin, Penguin seems chill

Growlithe usually needs a Fire Stone to lead, honestly I'm going to disagree with a large chunk of this post, its easier to go with what I do agree with.

Penguin is p chill. The "gold mine" isn't a big enough vein to set up on but we can pan for gold there at least. we might get a lil bit.

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why did u vote me

set a new trend idk

It's not a new trend, trust me. You saw what happened on the Good Ship Mutiny.

I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

Wait that's a thing?
I don't even read the first 10 pages usually xD I enter when I enter and the game for me doesn't exist before that. :3

Spoiler: All the roadkill, cheap thrill, obstacle-filled path

Get furtive to E-1. Sail is replaced by Not_Mafia and instant hammers.
imagine that

🌶🌶🌶 - 3/10
Paranoia or concern... hm....

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I'm not scum. If you give me something to talk about then I'll give it a go

Can you make your famous first ten pages analysis?

yeah I want that too

Spoiler: The pages, collapsed by Flea

Spoiler: Page 1

bianco's joke feels a bit forced. Firebringer tunnelling Norwee out the gate might be +town because scum would feel bad about doing that.

Spoiler: Page 2

This is entirely fluff.

Spoiler: Page 3

Gimli's entrance is slightly +town. I'm also thinking Kawaii is town based on my expectations of new players.

Spoiler: Page 4

TvT vibes from Gimli and FB.

Spoiler: Page 5

bianco question is slightly +scum.

Spoiler: Page 6

Norwee's entrance is +town, Flea's is +scum.

Spoiler: Page 7

Norwee is very town, not for the SK nightkill thing but I do buy that as genuine. Flea 170 could be a lazy pocket.

Spoiler: Page 8

I don't think 181 is +town, the opposite actually. I've found that Mafia are often self-deprecating in this way.

Spoiler: Page 9

DragonEater70 entrance is +town, Cephrir null.

Spoiler: Page 10

STD comes in, nothing to read into really so null.

VOTE: Flea The Magician

VOTE: flea

GODS DAMN IT PUT SOME CLOTHES ON.
Nekkidness everywhere. Yeesh. At least I have me undercrackers on...

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you're the one making associatives already. have I said I was sure you're scum, or have I said I don't believe your reactions to me?

u immediately said i was white knighting for kawaii, which to me was TMI that u knew kawaii was town. I don't know how u come to conclusion i was white knighting when i have not said a word about kawaii.

For all i know ur bussing kawaii but ur reaction tells me thats unlikely.

This is quite bad. Players often accuse others of white-knighting precisely because it seems like they are scum defending a town. Firebringer tries to frame this interaction as if Gimli thought that Firebringer’s scumread of Gimli was scummy, but Firebringer doesn’t acknowledge the possibility that there was a specific characteristic of his scumread that alerted Gimli that Firebringer was white-knighting.
So far, both Gimli and Firebringer seem scummy. Despite this, their interaction doesn’t seem like S/S. This is because of Firebringer’s slightly disingenuous characterization of Gimli’s posts. In my experience, scumpartners who are bussing try to fully understand their scumpartner’s posts before attacking them.

A challenger has appeared...
Can't wait to see you post more, your use of language is intriguing.

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And Cereal kill.

i would never kill cereal.
Thats just barbaric

my mafia kills goes to Norwee

Really starting to get the openwolf vibe from you.

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i don't think im nearly as good at reading u as cephrir tbh

Honestly I don't think StD is good at reading VOTE:Cephrir.

Spoiler: White lies, black dress, brightest of darkness

last time flea was scum fae was really busy so busy always busy never catching up never doing anything never producing reads

but ofc this time it can be NAI

You've had one game with me as scum, and I was caught up pretty regular, in contrast to my usual forever-in-catchup MO of scum in large.
So who's alt are you?

It's also almost like I have a life and health conditions that keep me busy... both of which are actually fairly well documented around the site

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I hate people townreading me, it makes the game harder to solve, but I like the people that did tr me except for cephrir

This type of metacognition tends to come from town.

Cool. You're definitely well seasoned at this, how did you place on the MU tournament championship things?

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VOTE: Flea

Put it away VOTE:Cephrir, nobody wants to see your naked ass... except maybe StD...

You close your tear-stained eyes to your silver-lined madness
After 29 years, you might want to confess
That we have made a fucked-up place that I can not erase

I read through all that performance

I think it was towny

I don't wanna flip flea anymore

The thing is, yes it has a townie vibe but if you read it carefully it's mostly fluffy commentary with very little game advancing opinions on who's scum and who's town. It kinda nudges me the wrong way, but it still feels townie in vibe.
IDK, does anyone here know Flea's meta well? Or can link to past games of theirs?

From scrolling through Flea’s ISO in HMS Mutiny I see the exact same thing that Gimli’s saying. I think this is +town for Flea and slightly +town for Gimli.

Curious, you read my ISO on HMS Mutiny, didn't read my post here - or if you did ignored my question.
Whats the difference you're seeing between here and Mutiny?

On a vacuum I wouldn't like this, as it fabricates a reson for a vote that looks credible but it's really just a nothingburger, but then again Sail is a pretty high hanging fruit at the moment, or at least I get the sense that he's pretty generally TR'd. I don't think this is the direction a scum wanting to appear solvey would go

Unpopular opinion: Sail is 100% null at the moment. Yes they are making a lot of content but I just don't feel strobgly about their content either way. It feels too generic.

[DragonEater70]

his detective hat this game

I take umbrage with this...real detectives don't wear hats.

Also, what is it in furtive's interactions with this game that makes you think he is actually doing this (apart from him appealing to your ego)? Because I don't see it at all.

So do you think Furtive is scum? Then why did you abandon the wagon so damn early?

[Detective Penguin]

1. )I've been quite clear that I do; and,

2.)I was the only vote left.

Do you think furtive is scum and wanted to be on the wagon? If not, why the charged language there?

[Gimli]

his detective hat this game

I take umbrage with this...real detectives don't wear hats.

Also, what is it in furtive's interactions with this game that makes you think he is actually doing this (apart from him appealing to your ego)? Because I don't see it at all.

I had furtive in my POE until he started interacting with me re: his scumreads that I was townreading. what follows is that both biancospino and flea started to feel very much like possible scum. I felt his approach had towny vibes and his solve makes much sense.

Spoiler: furtive's interaction with my POE

bianco still posting off the cuff means he is just town this game

completely disagree

so POE

(furtive, std, ceph, norwee)

is that a good solve friends

max 1 in here, 2 in your locktowns

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

you didn't play against scum bianco, he was in your team. remember that long convoluted reasoning things? I don't see him doing any of that here, it feels more like in thread solving etc.

I could be wrong ofc I was townreading bianco when he was doing the long convoluted thing too

It's not about style, it's about tone and motivation

maybe I'm pocketed by scum cause he is strong TRing me, but it feels like a genuine impression and not TMI. rn I think it's a genuine impression.

[Detective Penguin]

Forgive me, but I find those posts to be extremely weak interactions and I'm not sure how you are getting "genuine impression" from them.

[Gimli]

well I mean you're entitled to disagree with me, I just really think furtive is a townie

the genuine impression is re: his townread on me and not something in any of these posts I quoted.

[Detective Penguin]

right - i was expressing my disagreement there. you're free to feel think what you want.

[furtiveglance]

Penguin, read on Flea?

[Gimli]

I was townreading two slots with shaky reasoning. just by pointing at these slots again, I could see how that was precipitated and how they were both >rand scum.

bianco's and flea's posts afterwards are strengthening that read. of course, doing an associative read this early can be pretty bad, but I don't think furtive goes 'gimli I'll make you see' about one of his scumbuddies that I'm townreading. so furtive is already at pretty low equity with these two slots.

if they're both town, then maybe furtive can be scum? sure, but I still get towny vibes off him, I still see what he saw re: those slots, so I'm pretty comfortable with writing him off as a townie.

[furtiveglance]

Worth remebering that associatives aren't as useful as usual because only 2/3 of scum know each other

[Gimli]

if you think I'm SK hunting you're wrong dude

[Gimli]

you give me a town and a sk role and I can play both exactly the same way idk how we can solve past that point so it becomes just kill everything and see who wins

[Gimli]

SK has all the motive and intent to scumhunt as the SK wants sole control over NKs

they also don't wanna draw the NK, they wanna play the game to a point and not like super well

that's annoying to deal with I don't wanna deal with it maybe after we flipped all the scum

[furtiveglance]

I think you can scumread SK for some things

[Gimli]

maybe but too specific for d1, I think.

[biancospino]

I was townreading two slots with shaky reasoning. just by pointing at these slots again, I could see how that was precipitated and how they were both >rand scum.

bianco's and flea's posts afterwards are strengthening that read. of course, doing an associative read this early can be pretty bad,

but I don't think furtive goes 'gimli I'll make you see' about one of his scumbuddies that I'm townreading. so furtive is already at pretty low equity with these two slots.

if they're both town, then maybe furtive can be scum? sure, but I still get towny vibes off him, I still see what he saw re: those slots, so I'm pretty comfortable with writing him off as a townie.

I agree with the bolded, but it is clearly less appealing from my prospective. However, furtive noting that there being a SK lessens the utility of associatives is +t, since that note lessens the validity of your argument.

furtive/std townies and killing scum I think

(bianco, flea) should def contain at least one of them. from std it could be early bussing but I think furtive is just using his detective hat this game

Is it really in our best interest to create 1v1s in this way? If one of me and flea should be voted out and flipped as town, would that strengthen your read that the other is scum?

[Detective Penguin]

Penguin, read on Flea?

i have no idea how to read flea...so solidly null, would shoot.

[Gimli]

@bianco: I think you're the two most likely scum. to leave that pool all you both have to do is post towny things. I'm not associating one with the other in any way, but I have the impression there's scum between the two of you. all of the other slots are much townier, with the exception of maybe norwee/STD/ceph maybe FBer? but those slots are still townier than the two of you I think.

if you're town just keep posting.

[furtiveglance]

Penguin, read on Flea?

i have no idea how to read flea...so solidly null, would shoot.

Would you say you usually vote on any going wagon, or are you more selective?

[Detective Penguin]

I would say that my approach to day 1 is pretty transparent - and known - and you have played several games with me.

[DragonEater70]

1. )I've been quite clear that I do; and,

2.)I was the only vote left.

Do you think furtive is scum and wanted to be on the wagon? If not, why the charged language there?

I was on the wagon and got off, I still think they might be scummy and I don't have ny good wagon to vote right now. So yeah I'm a bit upset about you being off it.

[Detective Penguin]

I mean - why did you get off then?

[DragonEater70]

his detective hat this game

I take umbrage with this...real detectives don't wear hats.

Also, what is it in furtive's interactions with this game that makes you think he is actually doing this (apart from him appealing to your ego)? Because I don't see it at all.

I had furtive in my POE until he started interacting with me re: his scumreads that I was townreading. what follows is that both biancospino and flea started to feel very much like possible scum. I felt his approach had towny vibes and his solve makes much sense.

Spoiler: furtive's interaction with my POE

bianco still posting off the cuff means he is just town this game

completely disagree

so POE

(furtive, std, ceph, norwee)

is that a good solve friends

max 1 in here, 2 in your locktowns

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

bianco and Flea

I will make you see Gimli

you didn't play against scum bianco, he was in your team. remember that long convoluted reasoning things? I don't see him doing any of that here, it feels more like in thread solving etc.

I could be wrong ofc I was townreading bianco when he was doing the long convoluted thing too

It's not about style, it's about tone and motivation

maybe I'm pocketed by scum cause he is strong TRing me, but it feels like a genuine impression and not TMI. rn I think it's a genuine impression.

Idk he's not giving any strong arguments

[DragonEater70]

I mean - why did you get off then?

I liked his analysis when he posted it, but you are right, it's easy to fake.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: furtive
@Penguin you know what to do.