Mini Theme 2290: Open ChatGPT - Game Over

[KittyTacky]

Meow! I remember most of this list. Novel concept BTW.

Also yeah ChatGPT is honestly mid at mafia stuff but that's the gimmick here.

[KittyTacky]

That was ChatGPT vs itself. I like how it plays a serious opening at first, then plays really bad but legal moves before going totally crazy.

Actually it was ChatGPT vs a human. Notice how white doesn't make those weird illegal moves (except at the end).

[KittyTacky]

I once played against it and it played OK but then hung its queen on move 13.

[KittyTacky]

It probably can't, but it's funny to ask it and see what it conjures up.
You can just dump the whole thread as a prompt and ask it to pass a judgment, it may need some poking to get it to say anything other than "not enough information" thou.

IMPORTANT: it has a "memory" of 4000-ish tokns (i.e words). So it will see only the last few pages at best.

[KittyTacky]

I wouldn't rely on it for this due to this.

imo a Mafia bot would require dynamic persistent memory (like AI Dungeon memory but it selects relevant parts to add to its memory to keep notes) to not be mid af.

[KittyTacky]

With the right dataset it'd probably still play better than me since I forget everything tbh...

[KittyTacky]

Porkens' gimmick is mildly anti-town imo, particularly if they keep it up after earlygame. I think it's only slightly scummy at this point tho.

bianco is town imo, on vibes.

[KittyTacky]

Porkens is basically RPing only more extremely bc he’s not thinking about the game he’s just parroting what the bot says to him

I'm not sure that it's true, it's quite plausible that he's trying to get the bot to say what he means it to by manipulating the prompt. In which case the bot would say things in line with Porkens' opinions.

Of course that's why I want Porkens to also post the prompts he's using, instead of just the bot's response

imo if he was doing this in good faith he's have included the prompts in the first place.

[KittyTacky]

Also sorry was busy and my friend had a medical emergency.

[KittyTacky]

Porkens response to accusations is scummy but I'm not gonna rehash what Titus said.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Porkens

[KittyTacky]

Porkens' gimmick is mildly anti-town imo, particularly if they keep it up after earlygame. I think it's only slightly scummy at this point tho.

bianco is town imo, on vibes.

Something noteworthy about intertwining ChatGPT with your play (and something that made me feel like it was going to be useful for me to use in this game). The way that you ask ChatGPT about the game is more important than what ChatGPT says back.

I.e., rather than thinking of ChatGPT as a neutral party that you are "sterilizing" your posts with in order to make them obfuscated and unreadable, maybe the questions themselves that you are posing to ChatGPT can be thought of as the content.

Interacting with ChatGPT is fun. The results ChatGPT gives back are kind of mid and unimportant. But Porkens posts aren't exactly the results ChatGPT gives back, he is posting what he is asking of the AI

Spoiler: Porkens post

Porkens:
I’m in a mafia game on a forum and I have been using chatgpt to make my posts, half as a gimmick and half as an experiment. Unfortunately, some players are pushing me and saying that using chatgpt is somehow detrimental to the town. I don’t believe this is true but it feel I need to respond to this accusation. Write a post explaining these main points. Then express that Titus is suspicious for wagon going, but also that I don’t hate the wagon in bloodb0t. Write in a grumpy, just-woke-up-no-coffee style.

Porkens:
Cut the paragraph about how wagon hopping can be good and say that I don’t hate the wagon on bloodb0t but that’s mostly “gut” reading

Porkens:
Ok good summarize into one paragraph

Porkens:
One more time but don’t say about finding concrete evidence

Some players are accusing me of using ChatGPT to make my posts in the mafia game and saying it's detrimental to the town, but I disagree. I've got my eye on Titus, who has been wagon hopping without any clear reasoning, and my gut feeling is that something isn't right. I don't hate the wagon on bloodb0t, but let's focus on catching the scum. Those still giving me grief about using ChatGPT should focus on their own gameplay.

I cut out all the drafts to make it more easily digestible

You can see that Porkens is engaging in a dialogue with the bot which might be similar to an internal dialogue that someone might write out in a normal mafia post

So really porkens isnt playing in a game shatteringly different way IMO. Especially with regards to Mena saying he's the obvious correct move -- I think that this is something that can be read just like any other player.

When I was playing with ChatGPT this was all but a requirement (like, you had to prod it a bit) in order to get it to say things that sound right. Those things are controlled by a player in this game, therefore, we can read them

Yeah but thing is they only started including the prompts when they came under fire.

Speak of the devil ( )

Porkens is basically RPing only more extremely bc he’s not thinking about the game he’s just parroting what the bot says to him

I'm not sure that it's true, it's quite plausible that he's trying to get the bot to say what he means it to by manipulating the prompt. In which case the bot would say things in line with Porkens' opinions.

Of course that's why I want Porkens to also post the prompts he's using, instead of just the bot's response

imo if he was doing this in good faith he's have included the prompts in the first place.

The choice to include / not include the prompts seems pretty arbitrary? What makes you think so?
-Morta

ChatGPT can be manipulated into dispensing certain takes with correct prompting. This doesn't just apply to Mafia, my hobby is convincing it to give e.g illegal advice (for entertainment purposes ofc).

Note that with the correct responses, a prompt can be spliced in to essentially fake ChatGPT's opinion.

[KittyTacky]

It probably can't, but it's funny to ask it and see what it conjures up.
You can just dump the whole thread as a prompt and ask it to pass a judgment, it may need some poking to get it to say anything other than "not enough information" thou.

IMPORTANT: it has a "memory" of 4000-ish tokns (i.e words). So it will see only the last few pages at best.

theoretically speaking there should be no such hard limit on the memory of GPT, since it uses a transformer model blah blah blah. the ~4000 token limit is simply the maximum prompt length for computational/speed processes.

In practice it is there.

[KittyTacky]

1) imaginality's response to us is +++scum.
2) Menalque's talk of 'correct' play being voting Porkens and 'boring' is quite strange, and possibly +scum.
3) KittyTacky seems towny so far.
4) Morning Tweet, why did you vote Bloodbot recently? It didn't look related to the post.

-Mr. Glance

Kitty? Towny? He hasn't said anything new, his only reads were basically parroting thread consensus.
I need to look more into imaginality but for now I'm actually going to VOTE: KittyTacky.

P-edit: Exactly.

Nothing came up then I could really latch on.

[KittyTacky]

It's not lazy hunting, sure you COULD read Porkens but it's harder. Thus it's anti-town to obfuscate your play in this manner. What if in another game I posted only in limericks?

[KittyTacky]

Oh jesus I read that page a bit down and Porkens is giving an example of that (not a limerick but close enough).

[KittyTacky]

But you see my point.

[KittyTacky]

So on what planet is calling someone out for making themself difficult to read lazy hunting?

[KittyTacky]

OK Porkens stopped. The two posts are alright but a bit light, especially after such a long time of basically doing nothing.

[KittyTacky]

Porkens' gimmick is mildly anti-town imo, particularly if they keep it up after earlygame. I think it's only slightly scummy at this point tho.

bianco is town imo, on vibes.

When you can, tell me a bit more about what pinged you town from bianco initially?

Being solvy. I like people who are solvy early on. It's not something I can do very well as town.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah, or make it say an opinion with one prompt and say they used another prompt. Or doctor the output.

[KittyTacky]

I was experimenting and having fun with chatgpt, but it got boring and I agree ultimately anti-town as it was generating useless conversations and making it cumbersome for me to express myself. I will probably use it later to analyze posts when we have more data, but I won’t be having it write my posts anymore unless it would be exceptionally funny. Don’t want to be a pure troll this game so I stopped. Also I started including the prompts because I was asked to, not because I was “under fire.” I feel like kitty is going out of their way to misrep me. Not due to pressure from anyone did I stop, nor am I sheeping Drew’s reads.

I don’t think morning tweet is scummy. I thought posts like 183 use a lot of words to say not much but it doesn’t even really bother me. I brought it up because, out of everything, that was the one tiny rough patch when I run my brain over MT.

Well now that you stopped I don't SR you as much. It wasn't a genuine misrep.

[KittyTacky]

theoretically speaking there should be no such hard limit on the memory of GPT, since it uses a transformer model blah blah blah. the ~4000 token limit is simply the maximum prompt length for computational/speed processes.

In practice it is there.

you could just split the prompts up, it would still retain a good amount of info

No it'd not retain info from more than 4k tokens up its context.

Assuming it works like NovelAI. Which it should, they're both GPT.

[KittyTacky]

Hey imag!
What are your reads at rn?
~Janus

Town leans:
Doctor Drew, Dei Ex Machina, Bloodb0t
Menalque
Porkens

Neutral/mixed reads:
biancospino, Morning Tweet

Need more info:
GrandpaMo
Everyone really (no one has done anything super obvscum or obvtown yet)

Scum leans:
narrow parking
KittyTacky
Titus
Defective Agency

Please explain your reads. In particular I want the scumleans as those are generally more useful for scumhunting ime.

[KittyTacky]

WIll catch up this night, I'm not in a good state of mind today sorry.

[KittyTacky]

I feel ill.

haha ok i see where the imaigne wagon came from it came from defective agency pushing a certain adgenda and bianco voting

doctor drew just "sheeped the hydras"

and then menalque ur the fourth vote, why? you also ask a question in 204 -- what is the implied presumption?

while reading thru the game, i did not like bloodbot at all. but their posting in 210,212,and vote on 213, makes ithard. however i do not like 212 reason. menaluqe could had just been asking to ask, i do this all the time to find someone else that i perceieve as town to have reassurance.

imaginality looks like they are omgussing in a sense?

@dei ex u become the 5th vote. and u vote them because voting Kt is doing nothing. ok lol . i feel like all ur reads have been sheeps so far. especially the vote on me rn

I'm moving this as voting KT isn't really doing anything in the immediate, I assume KT will play whenever they'll play and maybe then there'll be a bit more to discuss. Mind you, Janus said they thought Imaginality didn't look too different from the previous game they were in, where they were Town, so I may have to change this again in <24 hours, but hopefully it'll do for now!

like rlly? especially when u made this quote earlier

Kitty? Towny? He hasn't said anything new, his only reads were basically parroting thread consensus.
I need to look more into imaginality but for now I'm actually going to VOTE: KittyTacky.

nd u talk about me having this type of posting style LOL

Porkens response to accusations is scummy but I'm not gonna rehash what Titus said.

this from kitty seems to programmed imo

this puts porkens ( i think this is a 3rd party role), kitty, bloodbot, and dei in the bottom 4

with bloodbot being a definite scumlean

there has been nothing useful thru out this entire game funny enough which makes me think mafia is probably in the low post counts

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bloodb0t

ill have my vote on u now

Programmed how? I don't really like repeating what people say if I agree with them. Why use many word if few word do trick?

[KittyTacky]

GrandpaMo is town, the arguments seem very town solving motivated. Happy townbinning that.

[KittyTacky]

I'll respond when I get there.

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky, do you have any reads?

I still think Porkens is scummy, I think imaginality is too now tho. I think you're town too. Much of the rest is kinda semi-null-lean-town.

[KittyTacky]

This doesn't seem like scum Drew either ngl.

[KittyTacky]

[...]

KittyTacky

127, I explained, 219 and 225 felt disingenuous, and they’ve done nothing towny imo.
[...]
I want to yeet Kitty but I'll see what Morta and Janus want to do with our vote.

I support putting our vote here (though I am not going to speak in terms of "wanting to yeet" anyone at this point). 219 and 255 did feel a bit disingenuous, and when I asked KittyTacky for elaboration I didn't feel that the answer wasn't very towny either.

VOTE: KittyTacky

@Kitty - let's talk. Any reads? What are your thoughts on this discussion:

Spoiler:

Speak of the devil ( )

Porkens is basically RPing only more extremely bc he’s not thinking about the game he’s just parroting what the bot says to him

I'm not sure that it's true, it's quite plausible that he's trying to get the bot to say what he means it to by manipulating the prompt. In which case the bot would say things in line with Porkens' opinions.

Of course that's why I want Porkens to also post the prompts he's using, instead of just the bot's response

imo if he was doing this in good faith he's have included the prompts in the first place.

The choice to include / not include the prompts seems pretty arbitrary? What makes you think so?
-Morta

ChatGPT can be manipulated into dispensing certain takes with correct prompting. This doesn't just apply to Mafia, my hobby is convincing it to give e.g illegal advice (for entertainment purposes ofc).

Note that with the correct responses, a prompt can be spliced in to essentially fake ChatGPT's opinion.

Sounds to me like you're saying that Porkens could be trying to "pass off" ChatGPT as an actually competent AI, trying to present its opinion as the "correct" opinion. Is that right?
-Morta

Yeah, or make it say an opinion with one prompt and say they used another prompt. Or doctor the output.

given the other players' reactions to the discussion? Do you think anyone was replying to you in bad faith?

-Morta

I don't think anyone here was replying in bad faith.

[KittyTacky]

@KT How do you feel about Mo's announcement of a role announcement? Is that factoring into your town read of him and what do you think is the purpose/benefit of it?

I think it's +town, just doesn't "feel" like a scum action imo. It's hard to explain vibe reads for me.

[KittyTacky]

@KT How do you feel about Mo's announcement of a role announcement? Is that factoring into your town read of him and what do you think is the purpose/benefit of it?

I think it's +town, just doesn't "feel" like a scum action imo. It's hard to explain vibe reads for me.

hey scum! ur late to the afterparty

Lol

[KittyTacky]

we hammered ur scum partner, narrow parking. how do u feel?

Grandpa Mo

has requested replacement

Note: This replacement was requested before day start, I am just late in posting it

Lol

[KittyTacky]

Somehow ngl I doubt that scum would kamikaze like that and then replace out. In fact I don't really like the votes on Mo now.

[KittyTacky]

It's just a bad town play imo. Mo slot town.

[KittyTacky]

Might be 3p hoping to get lucky and hit scum? So town or SK.

[KittyTacky]

But no way scum unless that was literally just gamethrowing.

[KittyTacky]

But no way scum unless that was literally just gamethrowing.

Opinions on Titus?

Town.

[KittyTacky]

But no way scum unless that was literally just gamethrowing.

Why would it be more gamethrowing for scum than for SK? I would've thought the opposite?

SK has more of a chance to hit actual scum and be "confirmed TI".

[KittyTacky]

Yeah I was thinking of bulletproof SK, but also considering ChatGPT's way of designing setups there's almost definitely a TP.

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky agreeing with me is making me rethink a little.

Wrong account.
Like, did scum!Kitty see me townleaning scum! Titus and figure it might be safe for them to do the same?

- Nyx

Orrrrr I'm just town and don't see a reason to scumread Titus.

Warming up to Porkens a bit rn.

[KittyTacky]

Possibly very dumb question, but
how common is it for an SK to signal to scum? I guess it could also be some other kind of strange third party like someone who has to get a specific person dead or eliminated. Just wondering if that's what GrandpaMo's posting yesterday could have meant, I still don't completely understand their motivations. I'm not sure why you would imply so strongly that someone is scum when they... aren't. I see a nonzero chance of this slot being a jester, though if it I guess Grandpa overestimated what seems like our willingness to yeet them today lol

I do agree otherwise the slot doesn't really seem to be scum motivated

-Morta

Or yeah I forgot, executioner is a role ChatGPT knows about so it's conceivable that Grandpa could just be exe.

[KittyTacky]

Actually wait no it doesn't, it thinks exe is the same role as jest lol. I'll try <L-word>er.

[KittyTacky]

It doesn't know that one either. I think we can be reasonably sure there is no condemner/executioner. There could be a jester but I doubt it, I think it's just SK.

[KittyTacky]

I highly doubt it's some strange new role. ChatGPT is unimaginative when it comes to roles.

[KittyTacky]

Actually no it managed to tell me what a <lword>er was after one reset, but considering it took this much I still doubt it.

[KittyTacky]

Actually no it managed to tell me what a <lword>er was after one reset, but considering it took this much I still doubt it.

I mean, one can make the simpler argument that GM most likely could not have been a <L>er since otherwise he should have already won (and so likely have been removed from the game)

Are you sure it would remember to include the "leave the game" thing?

[KittyTacky]

At first I was afraid NM would hammer but then I realized I'm an idiot.

[KittyTacky]

I'm really not sure Titus is scum. Just not seeing it.

[KittyTacky]

Sorry I had personal issues today that led to me not finding enough time to post.

Who do you scumread at the moment? Looking through your iso I didn't see you give any scumreads since Porkens early D1 and me mid D1. Since then it's just been townreads I think?

Menalque and bianco aren't looking good on a quick re-skim. I specifically don't like the GrandpaMo votes. The replace out indicates that it was town and not scum, and thus the votes are likely opportunistic.

I'm really not sure Titus is scum. Just not seeing it.

Pardon me if you have already said why before, but......why?

I just don't get the case.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Menalque

[KittyTacky]

I actually forgot if Titus not posting under pressure is a scumtell or not.

[KittyTacky]

In Warrior Cats she got real defensive when ran up and she was town. idk if she acts like this as scum as I don't remember playing with scum!Titus and what she was like under pressure.

[KittyTacky]

Could just be busy?

[KittyTacky]

I was going to add that this post caught my attention, too:

Sorry I had personal issues today that led to me not finding enough time to post.

Who do you scumread at the moment? Looking through your iso I didn't see you give any scumreads since Porkens early D1 and me mid D1. Since then it's just been townreads I think?

Menalque and bianco aren't looking good on a quick re-skim. I specifically don't like the GrandpaMo votes. The replace out indicates that it was town and not scum, and thus the votes are likely opportunistic.

I've had a similar thought about the GrandpaMo votes. Think this is a bit town-indicative because it's a sus on unusual slots. What do people think?

-Morta

Flip side of that, could be scumKT trying to get town points in the event of a GMo town flip.

And why is Bianco scummy (besides the GMo thing? This particular question is more directed at KT.

Pre Edit: What a glowing endorsement of this game we are playing lol 'Mysery Soup'

It's mostly the GMo thing and also them seeming to coast a bit recently.

[KittyTacky]

I done fucked up. I'm still town.

[KittyTacky]

My whole conception of the game kinda crashed down with Titus actually turning out scum. I guess I can sheep the Red wagon.

VOTE: RedFF

[KittyTacky]

I'd say yes and yes considering it's 3-1-1 now.

KittyTacky should pick the mass claim order. Arguably should also decide who's limmed today?

I understand why Menalque didn't name his target last night but if we could be certain he targeted biancospino anyhow then that would clear biancospino also. But the "if red then biancospino" in that last post doesn't make me feel entirely confident about that hypothesis.

Hmm.

I'll need a list of all claims so far. For the record I am VT. But I think we should do it in popcorn order so scum gets less of a chance to prepare their claims than when I post it all at once. Dei should claim first, then pick someone to claim.

[KittyTacky]

I know this is an AI-generated setup, but that feels highly implausible. What mod puts in an SK and two town killing roles?

- Nyx

One that doesn't understand what Mafia setups really look like. i.e an AI.

Still I doubt as we never had 3 kills unless I have suffered a catastrophic memory failure.

[KittyTacky]

Again I say, why are you assuming SK?

I killed Morning Tweet, I tried vigging Kitty(but maybe was blocked by Titus?), and last night I tried vigging Bianco.

Pre Edit: I know there is a role that if an action happens on them it gets redirected onto someone else, but I don't know the name lol

I am indeed VT so this is also questionful.

[KittyTacky]

Randomly awake and thinking about how Drew didn't have to claim vig. He was claiming last so could have claimed VT and had a good chance of not being limmed today.

Claiming vig is a risk for nontown!Drew. It could get him limmed if we don't believe the claim. It also puts a target on him tonight if we mislim today. I don't think it makes sense for scum to take that risk?

So I'm leaning to biancospino and Dei as the two scum remaining.

Do note WIFOM.

[KittyTacky]

Again I say, why are you assuming SK?

I killed Morning Tweet, I tried vigging Kitty(but maybe was blocked by Titus?), and last night I tried vigging Bianco.

Pre Edit: I know there is a role that if an action happens on them it gets redirected onto someone else, but I don't know the name lol

I am indeed VT so this is also questionful.

What is questionable?

I survived your "shot" so your claim is pretty questionable.

[KittyTacky]

I know this is an AI-generated setup, but that feels highly implausible. What mod puts in an SK and two town killing roles?

- Nyx

One that doesn't understand what Mafia setups really look like. i.e an AI.

Still I doubt as we never had 3 kills unless I have suffered a catastrophic memory failure.

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to with "3 kills", but note there must be at least 3 sources of kills in the game:
- The mafia's factional kill
- Porkens's role
- A third role that caused either Porkens's or Menalque's death last night

I also feel it's a bit less likely that there would be a

fourth

killing role, since, as you say, there are quite a lot of missing kills.

Where are you at, KT? As we said at the start of the day, we might look to you for guidance on who to eliminate today. Is this something you're thinking about?

-Morta

This kind of decision, where the whole ass game lies in my hands, makes me anxious.

I suppose we should vote Drew. I'll catch up before I vote in case I cut off discussion.

Ugh. It does seem like a risky play if scum. In TOS it would get you hanged very fast if you claimed it but there players are more impulsive.

[KittyTacky]

Fuck. I'm not sure at all who to trust here. My gut says Drew.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[KittyTacky]

Doctor Drew Kills Kitty Tacky
Menalque Jailkeeps Kitty Tacky
Porkens Targets Kitty Tacky

this is funny lmao

I'm like a lightning rod!

Anyways GG all, I stopped sussing imag and that was my mistake, should have let my gut deathtunnel me.

[KittyTacky]

I'm gonna run an AI-generated game myself later btw, with a slightly different and more batshit approach.

[KittyTacky]

The game continues until either the Mafia or the townspeople win. If the Mafia eliminates all the townspeople

or

the serial killer, the Mafia wins. If the townspeople eliminate all the Mafia members

or

the serial killer, the townspeople win.

Could've been a short game lol!

Also jfc this game is busted.

[KittyTacky]

For once me deathtunneling wouldn't have lost the game for town...

[KittyTacky]

I also sometimes deflate as either alignment. It's really NAI for me.