Mini 2292: Anything uPick - Game Over!

[Wavelength]

Also, standing questions for pinkball for when ever he is done traveling:

Why did you choose to take Ali>Enchant?
Why did you choose to kill PP, when you seemed pretty convinced that he was town last day phase?

Why is enchant not confirmed last scum from your PoV?
Like, why do you not think that Enchant's "we are in Elo not melo" claim is factually impossible if you are town, because it sure does look factually impossible if you are town from my PoV. (game would end if we are at 2:2, and his blasphemous should be up and running if we are at 3:1)

Why did you land on it being one of Me or Flea over the night?

[Flea The Magician]

Please Flea and Enchant don’t do anything stupid

I would say I didn't realise I was holding up a mirror... but I'm pretty sure this is kingmaker.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm also sure you're 3p

[Flea The Magician]

I’m in a world were either Flea or you is the remaining scum, yes. Your vote on me is damning but I’m not convinced, I started the day thinking it was Flea

Would love for you to expand on why me?

[Flea The Magician]

@Flea, given the facts:

1) The game is currently still happening, and
2) Enchant has claimed that they tried to use their blasphemous ability, and it failed

There are only 2 possible worlds that we live in.

A) We are currently at 2:1:1, and since there is a third party that lives here, it is pink ball. OR
B) We are at 3:1, and Enchant is lying about his blasphemous ability.

That is it.

Those are the only two possible mechanical worlds at this point. However, I don't think that I am ever voting Enchant this day phase, because I am convinced that Pink Ball is third party.

Pinkball is trying to claim that he is town, and that I am scum, which is not a possible world for us, because either the game would be over because me+you/enchant are at parity, and the game would be over, or it is just me, and enchant's blasphemous ability should be on.

Pink ball is once again, just calling me scum, because he needs people to not listen to me.

Gotta love a direct appeal.
I can't win here, as I see it.
So I get kingmaker.
Honestly, for those awful hammers PB doesn't deserve the win and absolutely should've been yeet long before LLD and ngl I'm miffed about that.

[Flea The Magician]

Honestly no-lim is the correct town play here so far as I'm bothered. PB doesn't know who last maf is, last maf is absolutely going to shoot PB

Convince me otherwise if you can.

[Wavelength]

If pinkball's targets do not come back, then we have lost already. And in that case, I agree that PB does not us kingmaking him. But given that is a 0% chance to win world, the right play is to ignore this possibility, and play towards the possible win.

If PB's targets come back (which seems at least plausible since we know that they are all in a hood via LLD), then killing PB directly should give us a chance to win. Like that seems like the best chance at having a path to victory we have left.

-----

If we no elim, and PB eats town, and Mafia shoots the other town, then the game wins with a Mafia win given the Mafia wincon. They would be at 50% of the population 1:1

If we no elim, and there is just the one disappearance (either PB eating mafia, or PB and the mafia hitting the same person), then we come back in tomorrow and just are left needing to vote out PB again.

What is the benefit of the no-elim that you are seeing that I am missing?

[Wavelength]

I guess the PB could eat one of us, and then the mafia shoots pink ball.

And in that case, if Ali/Kokichi fall out and we are fine?

But I don't think that that is better then just guaranteeing that that happens.

If we kill Pinkball, and Ali and Kokichi fall out, we win.

[Wavelength]

If we kill pinkball, and ali and kokichi die with him, then we lose.

But in that world, we have already lost.

[Pink Ball]

Stop speculating about my role if I’m asking to wait. Who’s the last scum?

(Just arrived, I’ll post soon)

[Pink Ball]

Game’s not lost for anyone at this point, I promise (I wouldn’t be wasting your time if that was the case)

[Enchant]

Ah yes. Mafia wins 1vs1 against third party.

... Wait why. It's against all logic.

[Enchant]

No i mean wincons worded really strangely.

[Flea The Magician]

Im genuinely thinking Wavey is the last scum

[Wavelength]

...

[Wavelength]

I might just ride out the deadline, and if you guys want to let it go to no elim, more power to you.

I put everything I had in trying to convince Ali last day phase what we needed to do to win, and if that was not enough for you to see that I am town trying to actually win this game, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

[Flea The Magician]

Tell me I'm wrong at least before yeeting the emotional appeals at me

[Wavelength]

Yeah. My bad.

I am sorry that i responded that way, but last day phase was really frustrating, and feeling like I am still not going to be listened to is frustrating me all over again.

I do feel like my arguments for what we need to do this day phase, last day phase, and even the one before that, were all pretty clearly fighting for a town win condition, but I have kept being ignored / argued against.

[Pink Ball]

Wave, I'm here

[Pink Ball]

Chill and let me do my thing

[Wavelength]

I do feel like my arguments for what we need to do this day phase, last day phase, and even the one before that, were all pretty clearly fighting for a town win condition, but I have kept being ignored / argued against.

And like, I don't know how to show you that I am town any more then this.

So, yeah. You are wrong.

[Wavelength]

Part of the defeatism of 1990 was that I had already felt frustrated that Pinkball and Enchant were both arguing against what I think is objectively the right move (with very faulty arguments imo), but I had told myself that it was silly to get mad at them for playing to their win cons, and that is why I reached out to you.

But you also came back saying that we should not listen to me again today, and even have me down as scum, and.. yeah.

[Pink Ball]

Wave, you're town, let me do my thing

[Wavelength]

Wave, you're town, let me do my thing

Go for it.

You have your work cut out for you though.

You don't just have to convince me that you are town, but also give me a reason why killing town!you and releasing Ali/Kokichi is a bad outcome.

I am pretty sure they are both confirmed town at this point, so like, trading you for a confirmed town seems like it is always a good deal.

But, you can try to wow me if you want.

[Pink Ball]

It is no surprise that I am, in fact, a 3p in this game. It's not proven (Enchant's role probably works like LLD's and stop working at MELo, which is the current state of the game), but I have no reasons to keep it a secret anymore. Let me embark you in the magical journey that has been this game from my perspective:

Prologue: my real role
When I saw the flavor of this game, the first thing that came to my mind was that kid rambling about being able to do anything. It's a funny video and the story behind it is pretty cool too: the kid was in a casting and tried to impress everyone by quoting a scene from Hercules and did it so badly that accidentally made a masterpiece of a meme. Here's the transcript of that video:

Have you ever had a dream that that you um you had you'd you would you could you'd do you wi you wants you you could do so you you'd do you could you you want you want him to do you so much you could do anything?

Cakez, inspired by the kid, decided to troll me and make me a 3p that can do anything; in other words, I'm three third parties in one.
- I am a Mentor, in which I target someone at night and they become my Mentee; I can have two Mentees at the same time. I get the entire information about my Mentees (role and alignment). Mentees work as lovers too: If I die, they die with me. If a Mentee died from another cause (like Kokichi's role), I'm still alive.
- I am a Serial Killer, in which I can decide to kill one of my Mentees if I want to leave a space for a new Mentee.
- I am a Survivor, in which the only way I win is if I don't die.
Knowing this, I thought "ah, the perfect role to come back to play mafia after a long hiatus: one that gives me 0 pressure to be scummy or scumhunt". So I embraced the madness and started to strategize about how to, with some luck, maybe win this.

Chapter 1: how to survive 101
My D1 was perfect: a 1v1 that put me on the spot to avoid being called out for going under the radar, and a lolhammer pseudo fake claiming being Not_Mafia to avoid being nightkilled. Next day I'd have to deal with the consequences of doing that, but mafiascum.net is not a place that operates by that kind of logic. Anyway, first day and a we got a townie elimination: we are now at a 8v3v1 and it looks like I'll have to scumside to win this faster: I bring Kokichi (obvtown) to the dream dimension and hope that the scumteam will do their part too, so we can start D2 with a 6v3v1 with town not knowing that they're in a potential one more miselimination to lose the game.

Chapter 2: well, well, well, how the turntables...
But alas! I accidentally saved Kokichi from the kill, and we get a scumflip during D2: we are now going to the next night in a 7v2v1 and I'm pretty sure that I know who the remaining scumteam is: PP and Ali. If I can get them in consecutive nights, game's over. I target PP and bingo! I got myself the second scum of the game all for myself (and Kokichi).

Chapter 3: no more lies
Game starts during D3, and the main thread is inhabited by a 6v1v1. The worst thing happens: a massclaim. I'm already against the ropes enough to try to fakeclaim something, so I'll just have to tell the truth and say that I'm the one who's kidnapping people. The 3p accusations were not long in coming. At least my role made no sense as scum, which is true: at this point, I'm either town or 3p, and since town didn't know that I had one of the remaining scum in my dimension, they focused on killing scum, which to be honest I think it was the correct strategy. Remember that, from my point of view, the best for me was to eliminate the last scum and win with town. But Ircher was town too, and another night comes.

Chapter 4: Sophie's choice
What to do? If I kill PP now and bring Ali, I can win, but if I'm wrong about Ali, town will for sure eliminate me in order to bring Kokichi and Ali back. I had no leverage to claim what I'm claiming now at that point: if I said "no wait, if you kill me, they'll both die!" I would be accused of being survivalistic and just lying, and I'd agree, that would be the best way to interpret what was going on from a town point of view. So I decided to not act and get one more chance to eliminate scum. I was convinced that Ali was the remaining scum at this point: it couldn't be either LLD or SAS because the redirector was missing, and Ali's claim was so clumsy and Marashu's push looked so much like a buss that I knew that the only way to win was to push either LLD or SAS and target Ali the next night. Again, this is from my perspective, were I know that PP is scum and town thinks PP is town.

Chapter 5: the bait
So I know that LLD will flip town. Redirection resolves before my action, so I need to bait Ali into not redirecting me: if they do, they can either kill whoever between Wave and Flea, or worse, kill me in order to bring PP back. So I claim that I'll target SAS and bring PP back: from scum!Ali's perspective, they only have to kill whoever they want and they'll win, since they'll start the next day in 2v2 (or 2v1v1). Of course, what I really was going to do is to kill PP and target Ali, and once and for all, end the game.

Chapter 6: the baited
The day starts, and Ali has dissappeared. There's no nightkill, and PP has flipped scum. I receive a PM, confirming what I feared the most: Ali is actually town, and their clumsy claim that didn't work on N1 was actually real: the Blue-Eyes White Dragon menacingly looked and the horror of being wrong came suddenly: Pink Ball, once again, has to solve this mistery.

So it's pretty simple: the remaining scum is factually between Wave and Flea. This, because now that I know that Ali is town and that their role was the one they claimed, the existence of the redirector is confirmed. Since neither Enchant or me can be the redirector, and both Kokichi and Ali are conftown, that only Wave and Flea. I'm not making judgements about either of you: it is how it is.

But what about Wave and Flea's roles during the game? Wave have claimed one thing that almost a 100% confirm that he's not lying about his role (he flavor copped me and called me "The Dream Kid" which is the exact name of my role), and Flea has their masks that both Ali and Wave claimed. My problem with that is, the one who brought the redirector to the discussion was Flea, claiming that fae was redirected during N2 to Wave. Did Wave redirect Flea's action to himself so he could get a cool mask like Ali's, or was Flea claiming being redirected when in fact fae was the redirector all along?

If I had to guess, and this is just setup spec, I'd say that Wave could have a scum role that pairs Amici's role: a scum Jack-of-all-trades. Why would Flea claim that fae was redirected if fae's the redirector? Did the scumteam decided not to redirect that night so they could claim this? It's possible, but maybe instead of having a full redirector, maybe it makes more sense that the scumteam has a JOAT with a redirection and a rolecop in their hands.

BUT, Pink Ball knows that Pink Ball is bad at setup spec, so why would he do that? Why wouldn't he just do what he best do, that is reading people's intentions? Wave has been solvey, Wave came to an excellent idea from a town perspective with the information he had, Wave is STILL pushing for the mechanically correct things that will help town win. Flea? If under the radar had pictures in the wictionary...

Wave, what you proposed yesterday was correct. Of course, now you know why I couldn't vouch for it. Ali not vouching for it is what convinced me even more that they were scum and they wanted to follow what I was going to do (bring PP back and target SAS/Enchant). I was wrong: Ali was so convinced that LLD was scum that they went for that, which I don't judge, you don't let scum!LLD live by any circumstances. But Ali was the nightkill and I saved them, and I don't think you shoot Ali in any scenario because you were as paranoid as I was; if you were scum, that would go through your mind and you would rather kill Flea as the safe bet, and Ali had you townpinned too, so if anything went wrong during the night, you'd have Ali the next day to push either me or Enchant and win.

Your frustration was and keeps being real, and that's what makes me believe that both you and Enchant are the remaining town in the main thread. But does it really matter from my perspective?

If Flea is the remaining scum, fae can still make faer case against you, and convince Enchant that you're the last scum. I can hypothetically make a pact with Flea right now that, if we eliminate town today, I won't act during the night and fae'll kill the remaining town, and we both win.

But I'd rather win with town, since after N1 I had to legitimately scumhunt and I've been trying to win with town the entire game, so that'll feel like the better scenario, the "good ending" of this game. So I'll say this and hope that it helps to convince you: I believe that town's best strategy, with the information they have so far, is to not believe me and eliminate me, and hope that Kokichi and Ali will come back to the game. In that scenario, you start the next day in a 1v3 with two conftowns, which is pretty good. Both Kokichi and Ali think that Flea is the remaining scum, too, so from either town or scum!Wave, eliminating me is a gambit that could be the only path.

Problem is, I'm telling the truth, and if I'm eliminated today, scum wins. So all I can say is good luck, I won't judge you whichever decision you make, since I think you've played wonderfully and you were my main pain in the ass this game.

VOTE: Flea the Magician

ps: Kokichi asked me not to make his flavor public and I respected his wishes. He wouldn't die if I claimed from his behalf, but since I dragged him out of the game on N1, I think the least I could do was to do what he told me.