Newbie 2118 | Terrieresque! - Day 4

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:12 am

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 24, Deltabreedy wrote: Gets us talking, gets us out of random voting and into the good stuff. RVS is a fundamentally useless stage of the game and the sooner we can break out of it, the better.

Scum would would RVS to continue for as long as possible to mitigate the amount of healthy, productive conversation we can all have.
He says while grandstanding and sticking to a random vote to try and stiffle discussion for as long as possible with the excuse of "but other people haven't said anything yet"

Do you want us out of RVS, or do you want to stick to RVS?
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:15 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

Stop mischaracterising it as a random vote. Once I can forgive, twice is being quite deliberately disingenuous.

With that being said, I think it's fairly obvious that I want us out of RVS. Do us all a favour and think critically for a moment about why my (I can't emphasise this enough -
Deliberate
) vote is there and the positive conversation that has come from it.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:16 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

Talk to me more about how my vote has stifled discussion, when it's literally given you something non-random to discuss.

Make it make sense for me Jason, cause I'm struggling with whatever point you think you're making.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:19 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 24, Deltabreedy wrote: Gets us talking, gets us out of random voting and into the good stuff. RVS is a fundamentally useless stage of the game and the sooner we can break out of it, the better.

Scum would would RVS to continue for as long as possible to mitigate the amount of healthy, productive conversation we can all have.
I can't believe that this trope still hasn't been defeated yet. RVS will naturally end, most of the time. You don't need to be a troll to end the thing. You're just trying to gain townie credit in a very greedy and kinda overly defensive manner.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:20 am

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 26, Deltabreedy wrote: Stop mischaracterising it as a random vote. Once I can forgive, twice is being quite deliberately disingenuous.

With that being said, I think it's fairly obvious that I want us out of RVS. Do us all a favour and think critically for a moment about why my (I can't emphasise this enough -
Deliberate
) vote is there and the positive conversation that has come from it.
It's amazing how you want to call it deliberate, but also don't want to commit to the one opinion of a player you have posted.

Also just to be clear, it's random because it doesn't matter who it was, you are just someone who wants to E-2 whoever you can post 1, that's fine, that's your style.

But past that, it's been pure stall tactics all the way down.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:20 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 26, Deltabreedy wrote: Stop mischaracterising it as a random vote. Once I can forgive, twice is being quite deliberately disingenuous.

With that being said, I think it's fairly obvious that I want us out of RVS. Do us all a favour and think critically for a moment about why my (I can't emphasise this enough -
Deliberate
) vote is there and the positive conversation that has come from it.
I mean for all intents and purposes it is a random vote. Even if it had intent, the person that it was for does not matter, aside from the fact that I'm E-2. So like maybe remove that threat?
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:21 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

EBWOP: Yay, Jason and I continue to agree
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:25 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

Why do you feel threatened at E-2? Like you say, it's random.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:25 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

By your own logic you oughtn't feel threatened
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:26 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

In post 28, MafiaSSK wrote: *snip*You don't need to be a troll to end the thing. You're just trying to gain townie credit in a very greedy and kinda overly defensive manner.
I fail to see how this is trolling, and I've done something that's going to illicit reactions from the playerbase. I don't particularly care about townie credit, I just want the game to -start-.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:30 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

Let the record show that I started a discussion on page one of the game, and Jason and MafiaSSK are jumping down my throat for *checks notes* stifling discussion.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:33 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 32, Deltabreedy wrote: Why do you feel threatened at E-2? Like you say, it's random.
Because it could be random, and even in the (maybe) case where you are town, E-2 leaves room for mafia to easily just pile on and then "whoops" an incredibly disadvantaged rest of the game
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:35 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 34, Deltabreedy wrote:
In post 28, MafiaSSK wrote: *snip*You don't need to be a troll to end the thing. You're just trying to gain townie credit in a very greedy and kinda overly defensive manner.
I fail to see how this is trolling, and I've done something that's going to illicit reactions from the playerbase. I don't particularly care about townie credit, I just want the game to -start-.
Illiciting reactions is literally trolling at best, mate. At worst, it doesn't actually garner any reactions and you gain no info. But at best, you get people agitated at you or maybe potentially being like "oh thank goodness, RVS is now over, now we can focus on the metadiscussion around RVS"
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:36 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 35, Deltabreedy wrote: Let the record show that I started a discussion on page one of the game, and Jason and MafiaSSK are jumping down my throat for *checks notes* stifling discussion.
Because it's literally just circles around the same content where nothing is going to change.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:40 am

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 35, Deltabreedy wrote: Let the record show that I started a discussion on page one of the game, and Jason and MafiaSSK are jumping down my throat for *checks notes* stifling discussion.
Let the record show that you are only generating discussion by *checks notes* being a mafia and trying to stall to burn time.

Like seriously, look at your own posts, each of them is an attempt to stop the discussion and stall, they aren't proper discussion questions, they are useless questions meant to stop a conversation then and there.
In post 20, Deltabreedy wrote: Well that's nonsense.

You're literally talking about it.

You're welcome
Example, there is nothing here, other then grandstanding about how you stopped RVS (you didn't)
In post 22, Deltabreedy wrote: There's more value to seeing reactions from the wider playerbase than placing my vote on you.

Stop misrepresenting my vote. It was not random. I very deliberately placed someone at E-2 in #11 and trying to paint me as doubling down on something random when that isn't the case is a vast misrepresentation of what's being accomplished here.
And here, you are basically telling me to stop talking and let other people weigh in, that's called trying to burn time.

Like hell, your still trying to focus on the theory of how your vote generates content, and not on the fact that you trying to stiffle it by saying "Stop talking this conversation is done"

All while still not voting your real opinion on me and sticking to your semi-RANDOM vote (it's still random if the only aim is E-2).
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:59 am

Post by Merlyn »

In post 17, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 13, Merlyn wrote: Jason, can you clarify for me if your vote is still RVS?
Nope, not RVS, kinda weird to be random past the first vote.
Okay, good to know, thank you.
In post 26, Deltabreedy wrote: Stop mischaracterising it as a random vote. Once I can forgive, twice is being quite deliberately disingenuous.

With that being said, I think it's fairly obvious that I want us out of RVS. Do us all a favour and think critically for a moment about why my (I can't emphasise this enough -
Deliberate
) vote is there and the positive conversation that has come from it.
Leaving aside the whole thing that's going on about when a game should get out of RVS, I want to ask you about this, Delta, and make sure I get what you're saying- your vote is not an RVS vote because it's not random? As in, you voted for MafiaSSK because you think they're scum? I'm asking this because I want to understand what you mean when you say your vote was not random/RVS.
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:24 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

My vote was not random in that it was a vote that was placed to generate discussion.

A random vote would be me popping in, giving some random funny/BS reason for a vote, voting a random slot and dipping.

The assertion that I am stifling discussion with my actions is laughable, and the pressure placed on MafiaSSK is generating discussion and readable content(IE: Content you can generate reads from).

That said,
UNVOTE: MafiaSSK
VOTE: Jason

Post #39 stinks. Here's why:
In post 39, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 35, Deltabreedy wrote: Let the record show that I started a discussion on page one of the game, and Jason and MafiaSSK are jumping down my throat for *checks notes* stifling discussion.
Let the record show that you are only generating discussion by *checks notes* being a mafia and trying to stall to burn time.

Like seriously, look at your own posts, each of them is an attempt to stop the discussion and stall, they aren't proper discussion questions, they are useless questions meant to stop a conversation then and there.
There's no case to answer. If there was a slip, or a misalignment between what I've been saying I want, and what my actions suggest - I'd understand. Since I placed that vote, there's been an OMGUS vote and a panic about hitting E-2, an ongoing discussion about getting out of RVS (We're out of it now - the first posts in the game from anyone else will have some reference to this conversation) and a counterwagon form. Apparently I've stifled discussion, which is just a barefaced lie.

This is what I want, good discussion that comes off the back of an action that breaks us out of RVS early. I find the assertion that '
Illiciting reactions is literally trolling at best
' from MafiaSSK genuinely laughable. Apparently posting content for people to form reads and make decisions on is '
literally trolling
'. I've seen games in the past where RVS and high-level discussion goes on for as much as 2-3 IRL days. We're now out of RVS on page 2. If I seem a bit annoyed, it's because I'm being scumread by two people for doing
literally the most town-motivated actions possible this early in the game
. Weird.
In post 39, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 22, Deltabreedy wrote: There's more value to seeing reactions from the wider playerbase than placing my vote on you.

Stop misrepresenting my vote. It was not random. I very deliberately placed someone at E-2 in #11 and trying to paint me as doubling down on something random when that isn't the case is a vast misrepresentation of what's being accomplished here.
And here, you are basically telling me to stop talking and let other people weigh in, that's called trying to burn time.

Like hell, your still trying to focus on the theory of how your vote generates content, and not on the fact that you trying to stiffle it by saying "Stop talking this conversation is done"

All while still not voting your real opinion on me and sticking to your semi-RANDOM vote (it's still random if the only aim is E-2).
This is the meat of it. Apparently clarifying my position and asking that Jason cease and desist with mischaracterising my vote is telling him to stop talking. That's a vast leap that feels semi-emotional in nature. Scum are going to find it hard to form scumreads for genuine reasons, so they're kind of motivated to make mountains out of molehills, which is exactly what's happening here. You don't get to redefine what random means and try to tell me what is and isn't my motivation? Why are you trying to convince ME that I've done something other than what I know my intention was?

Breaking RVS is great, and every post from here on in simply HAS to pass comment on this conversation from which we as a town can generate reads, cases and discussion. Jason has an issue with me doing that, pontificating by calling it grandstanding when there is either a chronic misunderstanding of the situation, or a scum with motivation to jump on a (baseless) case. At the time I was happy to wait for people to engage (since less than HALF the players had actually posted) but now I'm pretty happy to commit a vote to Jason.

--

Ask yourself, had I committed a vote to Jason earlier, how would the conversation have turned out? Would that have been alignment-indicative to yield so quickly on a course of action? Now ask where the motivation comes for misrepresenting an argument and doubling-down when called out on the misrep?
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 am

Post by Kowahbunga »

In post 28, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 24, Deltabreedy wrote: Gets us talking, gets us out of random voting and into the good stuff. RVS is a fundamentally useless stage of the game and the sooner we can break out of it, the better.

Scum would would RVS to continue for as long as possible to mitigate the amount of healthy, productive conversation we can all have.
I can't believe that this trope still hasn't been defeated yet. RVS will naturally end, most of the time. You don't need to be a troll to end the thing. You're just trying to gain townie credit in a very greedy and kinda overly defensive manner.
My vote stays, this is scum.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:35 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

Page 2 solve?
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:35 am

Post by Kowahbunga »

In post 35, Deltabreedy wrote: Let the record show that I started a discussion on page one of the game, and Jason and MafiaSSK are jumping down my throat for *checks notes* stifling discussion.
This feels scummy too because of the way you feel you need to bring your good deeds to our attention. We're all in here reading along, we can see what you've done and not done.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:35 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 42, Kowahbunga wrote:
In post 28, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 24, Deltabreedy wrote: Gets us talking, gets us out of random voting and into the good stuff. RVS is a fundamentally useless stage of the game and the sooner we can break out of it, the better.

Scum would would RVS to continue for as long as possible to mitigate the amount of healthy, productive conversation we can all have.
I can't believe that this trope still hasn't been defeated yet. RVS will naturally end, most of the time. You don't need to be a troll to end the thing. You're just trying to gain townie credit in a very greedy and kinda overly defensive manner.
My vote stays, this is scum.
why
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:36 am

Post by Deltabreedy »

What I was doing was being misrepresented, I think a clarification was due.

What are your thoughts on Jason?
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:38 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 41, Deltabreedy wrote:
There's no case to answer. If there was a slip, or a misalignment between what I've been saying I want, and what my actions suggest - I'd understand. Since I placed that vote, there's been an OMGUS vote and a panic about hitting E-2, an ongoing discussion about getting out of RVS (We're out of it now - the first posts in the game from anyone else will have some reference to this conversation) and a counterwagon form. Apparently I've stifled discussion, which is just a barefaced lie.

This is what I want, good discussion that comes off the back of an action that breaks us out of RVS early. I find the assertion that '
Illiciting reactions is literally trolling at best
' from MafiaSSK genuinely laughable. Apparently posting content for people to form reads and make decisions on is '
literally trolling
'. I've seen games in the past where RVS and high-level discussion goes on for as much as 2-3 IRL days. We're now out of RVS on page 2. If I seem a bit annoyed, it's because I'm being scumread by two people for doing
literally the most town-motivated actions possible this early in the game
. Weird.

You have stifled discussion! There's literally no new content in your post. You're revolving around the same ideas and because you've circled around the drain a few times, you've gotten so stuck that you're now hard-set on voting Jason on kinda lacking logic.

But also low-key I like that you said just a page ago that you weren't trying to claim townie-credit and then just explicitly tried to claim townie-credit for doing this.
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:40 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

In post 46, Deltabreedy wrote: What I was doing was being misrepresented, I think a clarification was due.

What are your thoughts on Jason?
Heyyyy, look, finally a new rung of communication. I think Jason is somewhat in the same place that I am. I think the conversation could be better placed and that you continuing to try and come around to this inane meta conversation is getting everyone defensive, including Jason.
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:44 am

Post by Kowahbunga »

In post 45, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 42, Kowahbunga wrote:
In post 28, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 24, Deltabreedy wrote: Gets us talking, gets us out of random voting and into the good stuff. RVS is a fundamentally useless stage of the game and the sooner we can break out of it, the better.

Scum would would RVS to continue for as long as possible to mitigate the amount of healthy, productive conversation we can all have.
I can't believe that this trope still hasn't been defeated yet. RVS will naturally end, most of the time. You don't need to be a troll to end the thing. You're just trying to gain townie credit in a very greedy and kinda overly defensive manner.
My vote stays, this is scum.
why
Your post is from an obvious scum mindset to me. It's not a trope that ending RVS is a good thing. Games do not need a 5 page RVS. The sooner it is over the better for town because the game begins. What is the difference between RVS ending on page 10 or page 1? Why would you ever think it's more natural for RVS to end later than sooner? RVS ended naturally here too but you're speaking like it didn't.

Overall I currently feel you're trying to brute force yourself out of the corner you're in, when I believe a town player would just continue scum hunting on their way to remove the votes. You're not presenting logic, you're presenting excuses.

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