i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 662, Aisa wrote:
I guess I'm wondering - does anyone here have any familiarity with Kawaii? Is their tone their usual town tone? Is this too easy? What alignment is everyone else? I don't really have a feel for this game so I'm not really aching to flashwagon Kawaii right this very second. But the people on the wagon have points.
All I can say is that I agree about the lurking being meaningless. Also, KawaiiKame is still new, having joined the site less than two months ago, and that makes their play harder to read. Newbies make newbie mistakes, but even so, I feel good about this.
By the way, when I first mentioned switching to KawaiiKame, it was based on nothing more than the off chance that your predecessor had gotten demoralized and replaced out because of their partner. Why I picked them over Goldfish was because they came back and continued to be useless. Given how few people were actively posting, I was fine with getting rid of a lurker, while a replacement could still redeem Goldfish's slot.
In post 675, Abnegation wrote:
I was going to say "why Kawaii green?" and then I realized green is scum.
Is this color thing really this confusing? So many people keep mentioning it. I've seen blue town, red town, green town, grey town, maybe others too. The colors used to vary a lot.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
we have 6 hours left, we need an execution.
could you share reads if you've got any?
I'm liking feysal with what I'm seeing, enchant feels okay, straight up claiming green is nai in rvs is nai to me, rauth feels slight town/null, I'm not liking that furitive is wagon flipping though this might be how town furitive acts, 0 conviction, I feel you okay, we do need an execution
Wait furitive said the momentum is with raith but I'm not feeling it
*rauth
@KawaiiKame:
can you say a bit more about not feeling Rauth at the time?
Feeling, the way Rauth spoke/acted seemed like semi lost town to me, I didn't get the impression everyone else was getting of Rauth so I didn't vote, maybe I missed something with what was being said
In post 582, ActionDan wrote:
my ending thoughts are that Abnegation; Feysal; Hugir are all pretty strong town, for multiple reasons. Massive gap between them and anyone else in the spectrum. I think Ice is scummier than not but very much not certain will reassess over the night.
@ActionDan:
interested in your reasons.
For the town reads I'll speak in mostly generalities: Abnegation: Aside from the fact that the miller claim fits well with the game (and now there is a bene cop) their posting has always been good. Feysal: similar solid posting + the backtrack on Rauth was + town as they reconsidered a decently solid case on him; Scum are not likely to hold back and stay their hand on a juicy target (also if partnered no reason to originally case rauth after an expressed town read with no critical pressure on him); Hugir: slightly weaker than the other two in terms of town reads but their is a fluidity in their posting and their ease of direct town reads (includes my own ) that I have enjoyed plus I thought the attempt to clear Snakelet was + town.
Ice: Most of this read comes down to a poor early series of posts. I can go over specifics but I've done that for half this game already. Since then and rereading a bit over night Ice's posts have markedly improved and I didn't realize just how similar his rauth case was to mine (and others) until reading it for understanding. Perhaps it was done out of necessity but at the very least it shows he can think like a townie.
we have 6 hours left, we need an execution.
could you share reads if you've got any?
I'm liking feysal with what I'm seeing, enchant feels okay, straight up claiming green is nai in rvs is nai to me, rauth feels slight town/null, I'm not liking that furitive is wagon flipping though this might be how town furitive acts, 0 conviction, I feel you okay, we do need an execution
Wait furitive said the momentum is with raith but I'm not feeling it
*rauth
@KawaiiKame:
can you say a bit more about not feeling Rauth at the time?
Feeling, the way Rauth spoke/acted seemed like semi lost town to me, I didn't get the impression everyone else was getting of Rauth so I didn't vote, maybe I missed something with what was being said
Glad you're back.
Anyway, a more pressing question is why you chose Dragon over Rauth to provide momentum near the end of D1. Dragon was bleeding votes when you did, if we needed momentum you'd expect to jump into the raising wagon, not the falling one
In post 582, ActionDan wrote:
my ending thoughts are that Abnegation; Feysal; Hugir are all pretty strong town, for multiple reasons. Massive gap between them and anyone else in the spectrum. I think Ice is scummier than not but very much not certain will reassess over the night.
@ActionDan:
interested in your reasons.
For the town reads I'll speak in mostly generalities: Abnegation: Aside from the fact that the miller claim fits well with the game (and now there is a bene cop) their posting has always been good. Feysal: similar solid posting + the backtrack on Rauth was + town as they reconsidered a decently solid case on him; Scum are not likely to hold back and stay their hand on a juicy target (also if partnered no reason to originally case rauth after an expressed town read with no critical pressure on him); Hugir: slightly weaker than the other two in terms of town reads but their is a fluidity in their posting and their ease of direct town reads (includes my own ) that I have enjoyed plus I thought the attempt to clear Snakelet was + town.
Ice: Most of this read comes down to a poor early series of posts. I can go over specifics but I've done that for half this game already. Since then and rereading a bit over night Ice's posts have markedly improved and I didn't realize just how similar his rauth case was to mine (and others) until reading it for understanding. Perhaps it was done out of necessity but at the very least it shows he can think like a townie.
Ahh I meant to only ask about the townreads thanks for the explanations anyway!
My thoughts: not interested in clearing Abne from the miller claim, but the posting so far does seem maybe a little towny?
Disagree that scum are not likely to hold their hand on a juicy target - or rather, yes in certain situations, but if none of the likely eliminations were Feysal's hypothetical scum partner then holding back on Rauth could easily be for show. I'll have to look at the original case Feysal wrote on Rauth again as I don't remember it. I don't have a strong opinion on anything you said about Hugir. Or Hugir themselves.
In post 481, Rautherdir wrote:
Actually thinking about it, I should probably try to catch rolestoppers instead of doing random shots in the dark, so I believe I know who my target should be tonight if I live.
I think you are underestimating the potential of your role. I can easily think of half a dozen roles that you could provide direct or indirect evidence of. I would recommend you pick someone you think is likely to be nightkilled, and don't tell who in advance.
What do you think is good about a checker targeting someone who is likely to be nightkilled?
People likely to be nightkilled are also magnets for other actions from town and scum, and a checker could provide evidence for several roles. For example, failure to check could prove the target had been rolestopped or jailed, or the target was hiding. Success would have ruled out other actions, by other players and the target.
I'm starting to get the impression that Rautherdir is posting his unfiltered thoughts, without stopping to think things through, and stumbled into contradictory stances.
UNVOTE: Rautherdir VOTE: IceDragon70
I don't have much on IceDragon, for or against him, but time is running out and we need to pick someone.
ActionDan, Rautherdir, Abnegation, furtiveglance and me, that is two votes short of an execution. I hope he will be back from his V/LA soon to respond.
Interested in what you were thinking around this time. What made Rauth seem unfiltered?
It was the exchange between him and Hell Froze Over starting from post 461, where Rautherdir was wondering whether to check an ascetic IC. Those posts were made in quite quick succession, and it looked like Rautherdir had posted without finishing his thought first.
Ok, I looked at this and it didn't tell me much unfortunately. I knew Rauth had flipped green before I started reading, so I don't have my reaction at the time as a reference point. I'll file this under "no idea what this means".
In post 562, Abnegation wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't think that's ai for them. We could try flashwagoning them though if you want to.
I agree it is null, but right now I think both the alternatives are more likely to be town than a shot in the dark. And there is the theory that when multiple replacements happen, they are
slightly
more likely to be scum, because knowing you lost a partner can be demoralizing. Yes, I admit that is weak.
I'm setting my clock to wake me before the deadline, should I need to change my vote.
UNVOTE: IceDragon70 VOTE: KawaiiKame
How likely did you think this flashwagon was to go through?
Snowball in hell, honestly. I probably would not have even tried it without Abnegation mentioning a flashwagon a couple hours earlier. I saw no harm in trying though, since I made sure I would be there before the deadline.
This is a reassuring reply to me, at least you seem aware that it came across as a bit of a shot in the dark
In post 583, Hell Froze Over wrote:
I think that {Rauth, Ice} is almost surely not all town. If this flips blue I'm pretty confident that Ice is green.
I actually think both of them are town now. If I had to name my best bet for scum heading into night, it actually is KawaiiKame. That instant buddying in response to a hint of pressure was too weird.
What did you think of the mechanical argument for {Rauth, Ice} not both being town?
What mechanical argument? If there was one, I missed it. I thought there was no reason they could not both be town, and in fact believed they both probably were.
There was, here, and in fact I think that's where Hell Froze Over's idea that {Rauth, Ice} would not both be town must have come from:
Mechanically, ID's claimed role would interact wierdly with a Checker I think. Checker's already not all that good, and would quite antisynergyse with an Empowerer. I don't think ID/Rauth are any likely to be both invocation.
A thought came in my mind that, if Benediction has a factional role
stop
, then a Checker would be significantly more useful, and Benediction would be interested in using an Empowerer to neutralize the Checker
~b
In post 684, Aisa wrote:
This is a reassuring reply to me, at least you seem aware that it came across as a bit of a shot in the dark.
Well, "shot in the dark" was the exact phrase I used in that post. I admit it was a lucky shot, there was no way I could have predicted KawaiiKame reacting like that to a hint of pressure.
In post 684, Aisa wrote:
There was, here, and in fact I think that's where Hell Froze Over's idea that {Rauth, Ice} would not both be town must have come from:
Spoiler:
In post 516, Hell Froze Over wrote:
Mechanically, ID's claimed role would interact weirdly with a Checker I think. Checker's already not all that good, and would quite antisynergise with an Empowerer. I don't think ID/Rauth are any likely to be both Invocation.
A thought came in my mind that, if Benediction has a factional role
stop
, then a Checker would be significantly more useful, and Benediction would be interested in using an Empowerer to neutralize the Checker.
Ah, so this was it. I did read it, but Hell Froze Over did not really elaborate why they thought that, and I missed what the point was. I'm still not quite sure I understand, but if the reason was that empowering a checker would cause the checker to get incorrect results, I would not have been convinced by that. There is no reason to expect an empowerer would even target a checker, and there are other town roles that can interfere with each other. Miller and cop, for an obvious example.
Pros: not Enchant, I don't have to develop an original scumread, I blame the hivemind if it goes wrong
Cons: there will still be no sign of any alternative wagon today, I don't get to be provocative and original
See what I mean? Hard choices. Need time to ponder =P
In post 571, Feysal wrote:
Okay, one more reply since I can't seem to get to sleep with this in my head. I mentioned I would not mind switching to KawaiiKame, and suddenly they declare a town read on me, misreading an almost irrelevant anecdote as "deep analysis". I mean... huh? What the hell is up with that reaction?
kind of forgot about this, but i have seen kawaii make the mistake of assuming long post = analysis before, and they were town.
i don't think that means they're town here, actually i'm not sure what it means yet, just remembered.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
so i'm kind of annoyed. i am only 30% done with that readslist that i was talking about, but my brain doesn't like to wake up until, like, 9 pm, and caffeine is not doing it for me today.
i know what to do. more caffeine!
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
) that I have enjoyed plus I thought the attempt to clear Snakelet was + town.
