In post 4324, Klick wrote:
Even if I got yesterday wrong they couldn't hammer with an afk Kawaii
kawa wasn't actually afk. i had him lurking in scum chat in the scum game we just finished. I might post it here btw just for some meta if anyone wants to read into that.
IDK why he is not in this thread at all (now he cant post anymore so rip) but I think he actually forgot this game existed, which points to not having a PT maybe.
Keep talking to me I'm town.
You might think I played garbage this game but that isn't an excuse to turn your brain off. I'm town and you can't use my play previously as some shorthand excuse to stop thinking about this game.
The pool of possible scum is very small, and anyone voting at this stage is clearly signaling to the person they are voting for their alignment (if not everykne else) How else do you think this is going to go?
I think the game not progressing with an absent player means something.
Your vote for me does too.
I have no extra info than what is public, but you two to me make the most sense right now, anything else and I've been outplayed completely
on the list of probabilities, i always had GImli and ausuka as least likely to be scum from a few days ago, their play and the results of other's actions just made them more likely to be town than anyone else. as the field narrowed, they were left alive.
your slot i have said previously just looks so scummy, your actions (and i try and go from actual actions when i can over vague feelings) just looked bad before and now have you top of the list.
kawaii - well it is a process of elimination and (here i am using circumstantial feelings like i said i wouldn't) the absence of any progress today is highly suspicious. in the situation we are in, nothing happening when a slot is not present does mean something to me.
before deciding to join I had been tracking the last few pages for a little bit nothing too serious. I started writing my notes as soon as i decided to replace in. So in other words I started reading earlier this morning, before I confirmed my PM tonite, take that as you might. Here is my long review of end of d3 and onwards. If there was something important before there, i wouldnt object to getting a few hints as to where to look
////
Starting from around end of d3 (i think) when mena dies.
Interesting coincidence that skygazer decides to end Mena when the Gera wagon is getting serious. Could have just been when she got online
Correct, Klick. Absolutely filthy hammer
I somwhat believe Gimli claiming he would have killed Mena sooner
Mena is simultaneusly kind of coming off like he trusts Klick but was also paranoid
3824, Gimli, why are you suggesting sacrificing yourself (or Gera) at 4v3 Xylo?
3843 I guess finding Sky's entrance adorably townie made you not want to lim Sky immediately
3844 Klick is also giving Sky a chance so its kind of... weird that Sky would throw away town equity like that? Did she feel pressured to vote to save Gera? I'm using all 5 of my brain cells to point out the most obvious possible conclusion I suppose
In post 3855, Enchant wrote:
Ugh if someone doesh't get it:
Skygazer claims visiting Gimli, but Gimli didn't see Detective visit.
One of them is lying.
enchant is a god amongst mere mortals
I think if Gera is town would you really need to have Sky try to claim bs on Gimli. Why start a 1v1 with Gimli rather than Gera who everyone including yesterwagon was on board with
So the 155th page probably spews Gimli as town from this point on
If I squint really hard this almost could sound deflated at Sky fucking up the mech. This is how I would react when I dont know what to say and am buying for more time
Okay, it was also about Klick going to Enchant. I dont know the context well enough to say if that's odd but it is weird that klick rather than giving an opinion went to see what enchant thought first
In post 3887, Gimli wrote:
sky is outed
gera is nearly outed fmpov, I hope people can interact with what I said about that
I've been clearing you cause you defended kawaii that was basically it
but you've been shielding sky and gera as well
and uhm its just the team that makes the most sense
I also heavily dislike your posting rn. why are you asking enchant for his gut reactions? what about your gut reactions? you seriously think I'm lying? I don't think you'd think I'm lying.
You know that the options are you vs Sky
You know that it's LyLo and I have reason to at least be a little skeptical before jumping to the conclusion that Sky is scum
I'm asking Enchant for his gut reactions to try and get a sense of how he's viewing this situation
I'm not giving my gut reactions because no one has asked for them and I don't think it's beneficial at this time
What's weird about trying to get reads out of this situation? Isn't that what town should be doing here?
In post 3891, Klick wrote:
I'm surprised you come away from Hollow Knight MyLo thinking I'd be immediately open about my gut reactions in this situation.
In post 3892, Klick wrote:
You are perceptive though, you do already realise that I'm heavily considering the possibility of you being scum here
I mean, why would Sky ------- Ah, right, we didn't know Sky was scum yet. My bad. I supppooooossee it's fair to not immediately take a side, sure. Hindsight is a strong performance enchancer. I can't fully make a conclusion about whether Klick should have been more confident (3896)
In post 3907, Klick wrote:
If you're town you're starting off this LyLo exactly the same as you did D9 in Hollow Knight and having the same effect of making sure I don't have sway in the thread.
I'm town. I don't see your town perspective in deciding I must be scum here.
I'm not shutting you down, I asked you who was more likely mafia and why and you said nothing.
Basically Klick rather than giving an opinion, he felt unconfident and also happened to ask for Enchants opinion. IT struck me as a little odd.
(((FUTURE MT: I get the idea was to see what Enchant would say because now with hindsight i can see Klick is currently suspecting or "suspecting" Enchant. Klick is not sure about the gamestate and is probing for more))))
I think Gimli is overplaying it but Klick feels a biiiiit too unsure (Even keeping ausuka as a possible suspect) COUNTEERPOINT though, Klick could just bus Sky and hard town the 3p like Mena predicted? Don't know. Gimlis invoking BOP i dont know if fair
The way Gimli argues he's town feels like it's coming from a place where it's quite obvious hes set in that meta, even if i cant actually fact check anything hes saying
In post 3944, Gimli wrote:
fwiw I also didn't think the hammer was conclusive, but there's layers over layers of indicatives that skygazer is scum, from her f tier detective targets to the hammer to, well, I HAVE A RED ON HER (thanks ausuka) and I think you can just read that progression from me as towntelling from back when I read the result
I'm saying its relevant cause its literally what happened: i opened my pms saw that i was visited by invest and checked out with sky's claim. I didn't know what type of invest she was claiming to be clearly, it's one of these things you just don't really lie about... its easy to spot, klick.
as titus once said to dr drew, I'm trying not to be a tunnely asshole klick but my patience is running thin
I've not actually read that much into the claim dispute between yourself and Sky yet
I probably will try to draw my own conclusions from it another time
But I'm going to need a lot of concentration to do that because I get mixed up myself on role stuff really easily
Atm I'm sticking to what I know works
But Enchant himself summed it up rlly well!! This claim dispute felt lopsided ESPECIALLY COMING AFTER THAT HAMMER FROM SKY which i accidentally thought made everyone assume Sky is scum like I'm doing now with my hindsight.
HOLY FUCK its kawaii okay bye kwaii
page 160, nice shade on me sky, also Enchant is pointing out YET ANOTHER THING about Sky's claim that obvscumed it which was that apparently Sky targets a already claimed vig (as detective). I can forgive Klick for missing that at firzt though if that was there but now enchant's pointed it out this case feels more than bulletproof
Detective (check to see if a player has killed) on a player who claims to have shot people as vigilante. uhhh huhhh. Mmmmhhhhhhmmmmm
Star maybe weirdly TMI townreading my slot at top of page 161
In post 3997, Skygazer wrote:
enchants interactions with gimli point towards town enchant
one of their first posts was about them bussing each other and idk enchant real well but as much of a shittposter i am i would never be that brazen w a scum buddy
and their vote on them doesnt rlly feel like bussing to me
In post 3998, Skygazer wrote:
like a lot of the gimli/enchant feel like not partners to me
So my tinfoil assumption atm is that Gimli and Enchant are partners. I have the opposite read of their early-game interaction and think if Gimli is scum, his read on Enchant is determined by how likely he thinks it is to antispew him. The likelihood of a Gimli/Enchant partnership is a pretty large part of why I have Gimli open as potential scum.
In post 4009, Klick wrote:
My best guess at the scumteam atm is Gimli/Enchant/gera, with gera being big question marks
I think Ausuka is town
I think you are town
I think Kawaii is town
If I'm to think Gimli/Enchant/gera is not the scumteam it would necessitate rejection of one of those three being town
O_O
YOU"RE SCUMREADING ENCHANT AFTER HE POINTS ALL THAT SHIT OUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO nononono way
Gimli, I can understand maybe. Skygazer was wallposting and shit and Gimli was being a little hard. But Enchant? No youve gone too far now there are multiple people pointing out the glaring issues here
And Gera is coming back into the thread. If he sides with Klick I'm done. The read thru is over. We got this figured out.
this is my honest reaction to the above quoted Klick posts
The way Ausuka is entertaining maybe Sky being town feeeels genuine. Questioning Enchant's claim of being roleblocked. But also pointing out Sky's bizarre night action choices.
Page 162 I'm pretty sure Ausuka is town
In post 4042, Klick wrote:
Screw that. I'm going to make my own assessment of the situation and I'm going to have my voice heard. If you're town, that's great, that means we're probably in a good spot going into today. But I'm going to investigate the alternative and say what I see and you're not going to bully the situation otherwise.
If you're town you need to understand that you're the only town player with full knowledge of the situation. You need to understand that it's important for town to keep their brains on and not happily skip along with the majority opinion without putting significant critical thought into the options available.
Whether you're town who really thinks I'm scum trying to manipulate the situation or you're scum trying to secure a win, you know these things really.
In post 4043, Klick wrote:
If you're town you've got significant reason to consider the possibility that I'm town who wants to make sure we get this right.
If you're town you should be very conscious of the fact that I have reason to be paranoid of losing to you again.
In post 4044, Klick wrote:
The things you're calling scum behaviour from me are how I think as town. You've seen them before, you're aware of how I act in this situation. That's why it's very concerning to me that your response in this situation is 'Klick is definitely scum
and I'm going to try to remove his platform today
.'
Town you doesn't fear me as either alignment. Scum you fears town me.
I believe that Klick is mafia, even though I don't necessarily disagree with anything that's being said. Some of this feels tailored to make Gimli doubt. I'm not sure I'm *seeing* Klick just investigating the alternative, it feels like Klick has to be ignoring some things about Sky.
Page 163 ENCHANT Is very towny here
I think Klick is trying to win the game with gera/Sky rather than have to participate in murdering them.
I think gera watching the discussion enough to know Sky is destroyed, but not having participated in that discussion, and then immediately voting sky, is telling
What I'm trying to say is that he didnt end up saying anything while most of the stuff was being hashed out (although i saw 1 post indicating he was there and he clearly is.) Waiting to see if Sky goes down or not, yes, probably
I disagree with Enchant that Klick is more likely to be town that's wrong, I don't see it
Klick mentions interactings he had with Gera on that day which would be weird as SvS theatre. I didn't see it, but I would be willing to see if you'd show me
In post 4157, Gimli wrote:
you scumsided tf out of this gameday against all evidence and it was SO MUCH EVIDENCE
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Kinda skimming past a lot of mech stuff i dont understand
Cant believe Klick still think Enchant is a ssuspect
In post 4210, Gimli wrote:
I was targeted by a blocking action and a protective action last night
I asked klick to target me and he either failed to do so twice now or he is lying and he is mafia
rn I think he is mafia
In post 4213, Klick wrote:
Do you want the true answer or do you want me to pretend I was roleblocked
In post 4215, Klick wrote:
With the true answer being 'I thought I submitted my visit to you at the start of the Night but I failed to do so, and defaulted to my list which had Ausuka at the top of it'
Do I even need to keep reading? You have to be aware that you reeealy reallly need to not mess up that night action because that last day looked kind of bad for you. I guess confirming your type of role isn't that big of a deal. At first I thought "Klick made the kill therefore no visit", forgot two scum. Still!!
I'm more confident in flipping gera today because skygazer saved him to hammer mena on d3.
i think i am being painted as scummy because of the way Sky hammered.
But if Sky is my partner, then why didn't they vote Menal here when they had every opportunity to do so and not make me look so bad.
The "evidence" against me is circumstantial at best - why not one player took any opportunity in the early game to check me when this always happens is annoying to say the least.
hahahai love the circumstantial at best line. if ur being painted then ur the sistine chapel of sus right now.
Your argument would require that Sky is a future teller? What if Sky had no intention of voting Mena, and wanted to stay off wagon and was gambling on that it would go through? Until her hand was forced. It's not "vote mena or vote mena while gera is a wagon", it's not nearly so black and white, you didnt even have any votes at the time, that kind of decision making it would require Sky knowing for certain you're a future wagon imminently on that day
In post 4253, Gimli wrote:
basically both skygazer and klick were fine being offwagon when the concurrent wagons were town!mena and kawa
your argument - that if skygazer was your team mate, she'd hammer menalque over kawa - doesn't really make sense. skygazer hammered mena not when kawa was the counterwagon, but when you were the counterwagon.
In post 4254, geraintm wrote:
but why would sky hammer to save me when it would implicate the pair of us, and not just sit there and let me go? they could have sacrificed me but instead they made sure that scum lost a player both the next nights?
While you're not wrong, it doesnt change that its scummy. And this is still a bottom of the drawer kind of defense, "Why play scummy when it will look scummy?" kind of makes me question what "scummy" even means anymore.
I made a mistake. Engage with the reasoning that suggests that me forgetting actions is actually an entirely reasonable conclusion. Engage with the fact that I attempted to subvert scum expectations in Hollow Knight exactly hoe I attempted to subvert scum expectations here with my target on Kawaii instead of you.
You're not engaging with actual legitimate reasons that i am town here.
You made a few mistakes (as town). I would say you missed the very bad looking parts of Sky's claim and just said "I didnt read into the claims too much" -- if you listened to Enchant or Gimli screaming "Why the fuck u detective the vig"
Also, you're a compulsive visitor whose sole power is to prove you're not the killer, and you arent targetting Gimli which wouyld apparently confirm that. Twice.
I think you tinfoiling Enchant/Ausuka/Gimli throughout Sky and essentially giving Sky a chance might count as a third.
So that's where im at with why it feels SUPER far fetched beyond just making a mistake.
In post 4323, Gimli wrote:
another reason to flip klick today is that I think skygazer wouldn't self vote if there was at least one townie hitting strongly at flipping me. since klick was arguing for that in the thread, she still obviously had a chance. all scum needed last gameday was one wrong townie.
Not if Kawaii was afk
Even if I got yesterday wrong they couldn't hammer with an afk Kawaii
I'm sorry you think I'm infallible as town
The main reason my thoughts started going to places like Comus and you is because no one was doing anything scummy
It turns out that scum weren't doing anything at all
But I was looking for people who could possibly wrongly convince me you were town and you and Comus were the main ones to come to mind
Maybe, but if Kawaii is town that explains why scum felt they could win with all three of them on that day. You would not have known Kawaii would go *poof* in advance. Makes it a little harder i guess if you're going after one of the active slots and one of the town voters is gone
- Klick almost certainly had to be willfully ignorant of something with regards to Skygazer's claim. I'm finding it hard to buy that Klick was tinfoiling/unconfident/exhausting all possibiltiies, whatever you like to call it, so hard as to err on the side of Enchant/Gimli possibly being the team (back when Sky was trying to stay alive). I don't really buy that.
- Also Klick fails to confirm role twice mistakenly which is a really strange coincidence although not in of itself damning
- I think Klick was trying to win the game with Gera/Sky, the way he interacts with both of them is very charitable. If i look ati t realllly, wayy too hard then it looks like Klick is trying to help them produce content in a lot of places. Sometimes maybe too much
also about gera
- if Gera is town, why does Skygazer pick a 1v1 with Gimli rather than with gera, who everyone on the previous day was on board with and would have been probably the most logical target for an investigator? Path of least resistance to an immediate win, am i missing anything? Just eliminate the previous day who was narrowly not eliminated ooo i dont get it why this mech failure thing
Am I considering Ausuka or Gimli being scum?
no
-
25ish pages that i did read
It's possible i missed something
-
the 150 pages that i didnt read
Gimli seems super unlikely considering Sky tries to pin the suspicion on Gimli/Enchant. and thats what Klick goes along with while gera ghosts the thread. Gera may be able to (truthfully) say he has never deviated from Kawaii/Klick at the bottom of his reads but he certainly wasnt there actively doing anything to show it
I just thought Ausuka was really obviously town with the way she reacted to the prior couple of days, I'll probably have to hash that one out more I guess
So, should be pretty clear where I'm at now I hope
Loose thread i might not have tied
I dont understand why Sky pretends to target Gimli with a detective shot in the first place, if gimli has a role which can confirm this to be false (and Sky is a goon). i generally think of this as just a mistake, I myself have outted myself for smaller dumb slip ups. Maybe forgot Gimli's role. Sky's fake log had a couple mistakes like that, considering the target on the vig.
It's also possible I have the timeframe on when Gimlis role was revealed versus Sky's claim and all that yada yada messed up so a lot of possible explanations for why Sky might have done that. It didnt seem like she was trying to claim a guilty, exactly? A strange mistake I think. I would appreciate help on that
okay, thats enough for now, you all can feel free to school me about how wrong I am
