Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Klick]

When someone reads a game at a level of depth before they have a role PM they have a towny thought process because they did solving without a solution
MT literally has access to a towny thought process on the parts of the game she read pre-replacement regardless of her alignment and that influences analysis of how genuine you think her posting and solving is.

I don't have a specific late-game scum replacement game to back up my opinion of MT here - it's a read based on 1. having seen her replace in as

town

previously and a lot of her content from that game admittedly being written before she had her role PM, and 2. believing she is very capable of appearing natural as scum, which I believe based on being really impressed with a scum game of hers that I modded like ages ago

So not the hardline sources you might want for that opinion, but it's one I hold regardless even when I'm not biased and basically know she's scum in this game

[Klick]

I think with access to essentially a town perspective of a game before entering, it doesn't take very much effort to just remember where your mind was before you had the solution to the game and have that massively assist in looking genuine overall

[Gimli]

If gera is town i think i'm fine with just losing here

same. we tried. so I guess you're ready to move on?

[Gimli]

there's a way to 'end' this f5 by forcing a concession through hammer testing MT. is that too much?

[Gimli]

yeah no thats too much

lets just move on then, ready when you all are

[Ausuka]

there's a way to 'end' this f5 by forcing a concession through hammer testing MT. is that too much?

This just seems like the optimal thing to do if we don't want to consider f3?

I mean I'm still having a little bit of hesitance about klick/MT but i don't know how realistic it is that i ever think it's mt over klick here

[Klick]

I'm not a strong scum player but I'm not poor enough to have essentially voluntarily entered a position like this from what would be a strong F7 LyLo position.

Like 'welp I must have been roleblocked you're right Gimli' would be a strictly better scum lie than 'I forgot to submit my action last night soz'.

[Klick]

But I feel like I speaking into a void and you've both decided this isn't really worth much more of your brain energy.

[Ausuka]

I'm not a strong scum player but I'm not poor enough to have essentially voluntarily entered a position like this from what would be a strong F7 LyLo position.

Like 'welp I must have been roleblocked you're right Gimli' would be a strictly better scum lie than 'I forgot to submit my action last night soz'.

I don't think mafia actually have a roleblocker

Like i mean clearly ~something~ interfered with enchant's role and it could be a gated rb at least but I would have been less inclined to believe that you were roleblocked and I am not sure how likely it is that you claim roleblocked with that in mind especially if you're not the blocking role here

[Klick]

Scum not actually having a roleblocker wouldn't be relevant
If I were scum I could have gone 'oh I was roleblocked'
And it would put me in a much better place today than 'I didn't submit my action last night'

[Ausuka]

Putting it another way, i would be more inclined to scumread you that way so i don't agree that you would be in a better place

[Klick]

Do you believe that I as scum would think claiming roleblocked would be a much better choice than claiming no-submit?

[Ausuka]

Um, not especially?

Like maybe gimli can tell me if i'm potatoing or something, but i am pretty sure that would imply a full mafia RB which is like super unlikely to exist in any situation and scum would probably think this through and realise it

[Klick]

The main point I'm getting at is that claiming no-submit would be a particularly poor choice if it weren't true

Heck, I think 'I visited Gimli, I think Gimli is lying scum' is a better choice of lie than 'I no-submitted'

[Gimli]

I think the whole not sending the thing doesn't make you any townier if you actually forgot to send or w/e but can mean you lied about your role which we have no way of ever confirming now. I'd still be scumreading you almost just as much without it, it's not super damning or anything imo.

[Klick]

I don't believe that when like 70% of your discourse with me today has been about the no-submit thing and the tone of your read of the situation changed significantly against me after that reveal

[Klick]

What actually gives you conviction that I'm scum then?

[Klick]

Because I thought it was the whole 'convenient poor choices' thing

[Gimli]

I said you were 100% mafia when you were arguing a whole lot about flipping me over skygazer

my scumread has to do with your scumsiding that felt very unreasonable to me at the time and I still feel as strong about it now then I did then

MT is townie as all hell, that's also something weighing in my solve a lot harder than you allegedly missing an action

[Gimli]

of course there are many associatives at play here

you and gera failed to do any sort of convincing 1v1 against each other in this gameday, even though you're voting one another. that's more associative than what MT is doing which just looks unpartnery, going hard at both slots, harder at you but coming to conclusions that are just as strong and sensible wrt you than wrt gera.

[Klick]

MT is townie as all hell

You're biased as all hell
Otherwise you'd be responding to the points I've made against this as a concept

[Klick]

of course there are many associatives at play here

you and gera failed to do any sort of convincing 1v1 against each other in this gameday, even though you're voting one another. that's more associative than what MT is doing which just looks unpartnery, going hard at both slots, harder at you but coming to conclusions that are just as strong and sensible wrt you than wrt gera.

I think gera's content today spews me hard as town when he flips scum.
My job isn't to convince you of things from my own confbiased perspective. You're not going to see things differently now just because I argue them having all the answers. I don't have particularly strong persuasive skills.

I am able to judge what things you should be able to see from an unbiased perspective. The problem is you aren't unbiased, you're biased in your own current read and have been since I dared to consider you possible scum over Skygazer yesterday.

[Gimli]

I think you tried dunking on me last gameday, it didn't work cause gera wanted to bus and you had to disassemble

also kawa wasn't around to be convinced so it became a weird spot to play out

I'll only know when everyone flips but this is the world I feel strongest is the case and if I do anything else and I'm wrong it'll be gamethrowing and bad player jail so I'm not about to do that, you know

I told you f7 if you're town what you were doing there would come back to you. and that's okay to lose the game if its the case that youre town, because my solve can't go anywhere else reasonably anymore and you're not towny enough for me to suddenly realise you're town or whatever gut read wizardly maybe fireisred would be able to pull here. and I've read enough of this game, I read kawa many times and every single time I came out with a townread on the slot.

[Gimli]

okay how is gera spewing you town?

[geraintm]

I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over