Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Ausuka]

This is really good content gera!

is that sarcastic?

is that a U8 football coach pepping up the worst player on the team?

I know this probably sounds dumb but tbh quite a bit of my reasoning for thinking it's more likely to be klick than MT slot is this looks really really like a cheeky s/s interaction to me >.>

[Gimli]

I thought you thought this was unpartnered?

[Gimli]

*starts sussing ausuka*

[Gimli]

I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over

push klick instead?

[Ausuka]

I changed my mind when i was reading through

[Ausuka]

*starts sussing ausuka*

This would genuinely be the funniest way to lose the game

[Gimli]

argh

its always hard isnt it even when it feels like it should be obviously the case

anyway wanna hammer, ausuka?

[Ausuka]

Are you around for a next couple hours

I kind of want to iso klick one more time but if that doesn't change anything i'm fine to just end the day and stop going in circles

[Gimli]

yeah i have to get going in a bit so maybe tomorrow or later then

[Ausuka]

sure

[Morning Tweet]

I especifically like how organically sounding MT is slowly realizing she replaced into a 'boring' solve, while simultaneously exploring other possible solves

My wincon is the same as either alignment, just beat Klick, deadlocked 1v1 is a practgically 1 on the fun scale compared to everyone suspects everyone being a 10. Suspecting people you simultaneously trust is the best bit

When someone reads a game at a level of depth before they have a role PM they have a towny thought process because they did solving without a solution
MT literally has access to a towny thought process on the parts of the game she read pre-replacement regardless of her alignment and that influences analysis of how genuine you think her posting and solving is.

I don't have a specific late-game scum replacement game to back up my opinion of MT here - it's a read based on 1. having seen her replace in as

town

previously and a lot of her content from that game admittedly being written before she had her role PM, and 2. believing she is very capable of appearing natural as scum, which I believe based on being really impressed with a scum game of hers that I modded like ages ago

So not the hardline sources you might want for that opinion, but it's one I hold regardless even when I'm not biased and basically know she's scum in this game

It's true, I was solving the game assuming I'm town or you're town that needs mislimmed. At least around when i started. It was the "I'm fking town" area where you were appealing to Gimli that made me hesitate the first time a little and wonder if it was my slot rather than yours

I think one thing that was notable is I actually felt like I was town after reading your posts to Sky. At the beginning I wasn't sure so I wrote ambiguously in some areas so I could cover my ass and change the post later. I stopped doing that after enough time reading though.

I still took an hour or so to revise my post and expand after i got my alignment, take that as you might

[Morning Tweet]

There are a lot of reasons that my replacement is easier to do as scum than if i had started the game. When you rep in you're unbiased as hell it's kind of like starting D1 when no reads are too important yet. You get to look at whatever you choose to respond to, you get to roleplay as a townie when you first are looking at the game, its all true

That's still just an argument for why I'm capable of the repin as scum though. It's not actively tying me to anything it's just a damper on Gimli TRing me. I feel like I have pretty good reasons for Klick being aligned with Sky

[Morning Tweet]

I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over

If ur town and ur just watching me be Gimli or Ausuka or whoever's puppet for hours on end then BRUH \
thats funny as fuck actually

[geraintm]

I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over

If ur town and ur just watching me be Gimli or Ausuka or whoever's puppet for hours on end then BRUH \
thats funny as fuck actually

this is the longest game I can remember playing. 170 pages. And not especially funny

[Klick]

When someone reads a game at a level of depth before they have a role PM they have a towny thought process because they did solving without a solution
MT literally has access to a towny thought process on the parts of the game she read pre-replacement regardless of her alignment and that influences analysis of how genuine you think her posting and solving is.

I don't have a specific late-game scum replacement game to back up my opinion of MT here - it's a read based on 1. having seen her replace in as

town

previously and a lot of her content from that game admittedly being written before she had her role PM, and 2. believing she is very capable of appearing natural as scum, which I believe based on being really impressed with a scum game of hers that I modded like ages ago

So not the hardline sources you might want for that opinion, but it's one I hold regardless even when I'm not biased and basically know she's scum in this game

I posted this and got tumbleweed
Except from MT who fucking agrees with what I'm arguing conceptually and gives as much

[Klick]

I'll only know when everyone flips but this is the world I feel strongest is the case and if I do anything else and I'm wrong it'll be gamethrowing and bad player jail so I'm not about to do that, you know

This kind of mindset limits your potential town play massively. Don't be afraid of finding answers. Don't be afraid of being wrong. Just find the truth.

I told you f7 if you're town what you were doing there would come back to you.

Something something self-fulfilling prophecies
This only has to be true if you want it to be true

[Morning Tweet]

Conceptually you're entirely right although it doesnt make me scum it just makes me maybe not town

I think what Gimli's point with the second quote is that he recognized at the time you were scumsiding, tried to tell you, and it still didnt come off like you were wrong town

[Morning Tweet]

I am amused by the level of effort being put into this game when it is so close to being over

If ur town and ur just watching me be Gimli or Ausuka or whoever's puppet for hours on end then BRUH \
thats funny as fuck actually

this is the longest game I can remember playing. 170 pages. And not especially funny

Maybe but the hypothetical where you're town and I'm wallposting and am completely wrong but only Gimli and Ausuka are engaging with me on my lingering questions and you're accepting the loss while allowing me to continuously embarrass myself, that's sort of amusing

[Morning Tweet]

These things are explainable by MT being rather good at sounding organic when she's scum

which is a true statement

This is probably particularly telling because i dont think Klick really thinks that of me

I mean it is explainable by that it just seems less likely

I mean maybe im biased but again i recently had a game where we were both scum and she replaced in and posted nothing and everyone was like "oh MT can't post she's scum lol" and then they killed her and she was scum and like I did check her profile and that's the most recent scum game of hers i can see?

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=55&t=89870&user_select%5B%5D=28527

Idk it just feels like night and day compared to this. Is there any spoecific example of a lategame replace that's similar to this you had in mind?

Oh I forgot about that game lol

I kind of was shooting the shit to try and get into the game without an in depth review and everyone immediately called me scum so i didnt really take it to heart

I dont think I ever had any intention of reading that game after the insanely cold reception to what i thought was nothing

LMFAO viewtopic.php?p=13505915#p13505915 I totally forgot about this that was actually funny as hell someone suggested I claim even-night friendly neighbour as my last bullshit

I don't think this is super indicative of how i would play as scum. The Team Mafia game i linked is a better example of me trying as scum but being miserable at it. The large normal i dont even seem to be present in the building

[Morning Tweet]

It's probably a good indictator of my demeanor as scum but i would say i usually do a review to get into that game even as scum, I don't rlly know what i was doing in that instance

[Klick]

VOTE: Skygazer

Fuck fuck fuck fuck

vote sky

I think sky has been trapped into exposing themselves, I alwaysbthought today scum would be because there were too many night actions to go round and they would be found out. The lack of any votes backing theirs up too.

Whoever is town on Sky, unvote now

Sky is at E-1. This looks like a quickhammer setup. Unvote now please.

unvote

Sorry

I'd appreciate another unvote

Out for dinner with Bella atm, I don't want this to end while I'm out

vote sky

I've seen enough. I am not surebwhy I was told to unvote earlier, as all that has happened is that sky is flailing more and more.
Easter weekend, don't expect much from me

So I really strongly suggest reading back on this yourself and getting full context, things like times and order of events and the context of the discussion happening around this time, because otherwise me providing quotes is just my interpretation of a situation that you'd just have to trust me on. Everything I'm arguing is based on the actual context of the situation, and if you go look at it you should be able to see how I'm reaching the conclusions I'm reaching.

My big question is

what is geraintm actually trying to do?

(And as a related question,

what am I trying to do?

, but I think the first question is more relevant and the main reason we're not viable partners)

When I originally read 4050 followed by 4060, I strongly suspected that a quickhammer was being set up. I think this was a correct read of the situation, just not in the way I thought.

4106 sets up for Skygazer to self-hammer. I believe 4060 was originally intended to do this. I think when specifically trying to get into geraintm!scum's head, what gera wants to do with 4060 is set up for Sky to self-hammer. It's gera's first post after Sky is put on E-2. He does it in a very similar manner in 4106 afterwards.

This suggests a level of coordinated effort on behalf of the scumteam to end the day fairly quickly on a Skygazer lim.

So then my question is,

why

does the scumteam want yesterday to end fairly quickly on a Skygazer lim? Why is that something they desire and play towards? And who makes sense as scum under that lens?

(If you would like, pause the video and attempt to answer this question yourself before continuing on to the answer.)

[...]

So I think at its base, the scumteam thought the best choice they had yesterday was to end the day early. It was a conscious choice made by gera, and then re-made some 19 hours later. It looks planned in both instances. They wanted this and planned it out. Which means they thought it granted them some tangible benefit - otherwise, there's no point. You can WIFOM it, but scumteams generally don't actually do things for no reason.

I think there's a clear benefit for a Sky-gera-Kawaii scumteam to end yesterday early, whereas for a Sky-gera-Klick scumteam there would not only be no sensible benefit, but it would be actively harmful.

I think the benefit for Sky-gera-Kawaii scumteam is twofold: from how yesterday's conversation was going, they were set up to win; and they didn't want the advantage they had to vanish through town communicating further with each other. All three of these players have been rather low-influence and low-activity relative to this game, and Kawaii was AFK. I think it was Gimli who even started saying today that he was thinking of un-clearing Kawaii specifically because of their low activity. That scumteam needs to press their advantage. They want to let Sky hammer herself so that the lasting narrative of the day is town talking about how the team is clearly Sky/gera/Klick.

They benefit from yesterday's conversation ending prematurely.

Meanwhile, Sky hammering herself in a Sky-gera-Klick world is not really a sensible play. There's no point to it. Not only that, but it ends the day with lines clearly drawn

against that specific team.

That team doesn't want the day to end early at all, much less as a conscious choice by them. Sky ending the day when and how she ended the day would be really really bad for a Sky-gera-Klick scumteam.


The optics surrounding the gera-Sky hammer setup spew me town and Kawaii scum as well. Gera

specifically

waits until Enchant has placed a second vote onto Sky, and then right after this happens, gera tries to jump on Sky. If Kawaii is scum, this makes plenty of sense - since Kawaii is AFK, gera and Sky

need

two town votes on Sky before they can hammer her - and so when exactly that happens, gera jumps for it. If it's Sky-gera-Klick, this timing isn't necessary and it's incredibly convenient that that team would wait until right after a second town vote was placed to go for a Sky self-hammer.

Finally,

my posting yesterday was actively anti-synergistic with what geraintm was doing with the quickhammer, as well as more fundamentally anti-synergistic with what the scumteam wanted.

I think the evidence points to gera's 4060 being indicative of gera actually just wanting a quickhammer to happen. I don't think gera intends to unvote when writing 4060, I think gera intends to keep his vote there so that Sky can hammer herself. I don't think 'gera voted in 4060 so that he could unvote 20 minutes later' is a reasonable assessment of gera's decision-making processes as a player. He's a fairly straightforward player.
Meanwhile, my 4061 and 4062 STRONGLY disrupt this play. I push for the day to NOT end and actively stop it from happening. But even if you discount that,

the conversation I'm having throughout yesterday is anti-synergistic with a scumteam that wants the day to end early.

I wanted to talk yesterday! I wanted specifically to talk about the possibility of Sky being town and Gimli being scum. Why would I be choosing to push a load of content out that specifically looks horrible upon a Sky scum flip, if the scumteam is actively seeking a Sky flip? Why am I pushing anything against the status quo at all if the scumteam are trying to end the day prematurely and end conversation?

I wanted open conversation yesterday. I wanted to discuss Skygazer vs Gimli. I wanted to sheep Ausuka for the day. The scumteam wanted none of these things and chose not once, but twice to try to go against these things in an organised manner. They did this because ending the day on a high was better for them than letting us continue talking.

[Klick]

catching up

I was targeted by a blocking action and a protective action last night

I asked klick to target me and he either failed to do so twice now or he is lying and he is mafia

rn I think he is mafia

1st, someone targetted you with a blocking ability? but you've never claimed having a role (you haven't have you? i checked the summary posts of claims and i cannot see you having one) so who did that? makes no sense unless they are town and thought you were scum or are scum and thought you were lying about having no role? {i have more unformed thoughts about this}

2nd - ive just checked the wiki for visitor - and it says that you wouldn't know that a visitor has been to you.

so how did you know that klick didn't visit you?

of course, scum prob has a roleblocker

I'll just say it then: klick could've been rb'ed by maf and they chose to kill off enchant and rb klick to implicate him

not too hard tbh

but you said you were targetted by a roleblocker? the chances of there being 2 roleblockers in the game seem small?

With the true answer being 'I thought I submitted my visit to you at the start of the Night but I failed to do so, and defaulted to my list which had Ausuka at the top of it'

I'm not scum with geraintm because geraintm doesn't really get what was going on with the targeting plan last night and I do

That's probably the biggest evidence that if gera is scum, it's with Kawaii. Anyone else and gera probably has a better understanding of Ausuka/Enchant's role interaction than he currently does.

I still stand by the fact that 4225 is gera genuinely not getting what's going on with the roles at the start of today.

[Klick]

Read gera's posting throughout this day phase and tell me he's worried about losing this game.

[geraintm]

your logic makes no sense. i was suspicious of sky way way before they were anywhere near elimination, i was like 90% going to vote for them from the start of the day unless something magical had happened over night. why would scum me and sky set up things like that? this is why it is all pointless, everyone is arguing among themselves but from the flawed position that i am scum. i literally have no idea why you are all dragging today out when we can all pack up and go home anytime you all want to.

[geraintm]

I still stand by the fact that 4225 is gera genuinely not getting what's going on with the roles at the start of today.

well, duh. i am always miles behind the game, and if a game every requires me to solve a game based on my working out a complex game state then town should not let themselves get themselves into that posistion.
there is a reason i make posts throughout games trying to keep track of claims. i am lost without them, and barely functioning with