Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Ausuka]

i mostly agree with gera being the most likely scum flip of anyone and I am glad this point doesn't need arguing.

I would still like more time to read through klick/kawaii but I am leaning towards klick. i think ideally we come to some sort of understanding today so the nk doesn't matter

I did think about a scum!gimli world but i came to the conclusion that if they bussed that well in that situation they can just win tbh

I am slightly worried if gimli is scum the game is getting hard slowrolled but like oh well

I'm waiting for you, I'm leaning klick on f3 very strongly as well

the NK won't matter, unless you're particularly willing to be convinced by f3 arguments. I'm really not, especially if MT continues to post town throughout. she doesn't need to do half of what she is doing here as scum.

i'm unlikely to be convinced by anything in f3 because if i'm there it's cos mafia chose to have me there and i'm less inclined to listen to people trying to appeal to me

the plan to target mt seems like a good idea?

[Ausuka]

I especifically like how organically sounding MT is slowly realizing she replaced into a 'boring' solve, while simultaneously exploring other possible solves

I agree with this fwiw

I think solving kawaii is... sorta difficult because that slot hasn't done a whole lot all game but i do feel like gera / klick is overall the most likely explanation. i don't think tweet is scum here and i think although klick's play has been p good overall he works very well as a partner for gera and sky specifically

[Ausuka]

and i'm fine with yeeting gera? i think broadly, klick/MT does not feel like a very viable team, he has not done a whole lot townie, there is that hammer thing, and just overall his posts in recent days have been thoroughly unconvincing

If gera is town i think i'm fine with just losing here

[Ausuka]

I mean it is explainable by that it just seems less likely

I mean maybe im biased but again i recently had a game where we were both scum and she replaced in and posted nothing and everyone was like "oh MT can't post she's scum lol" and then they killed her and she was scum and like I did check her profile and that's the most recent scum game of hers i can see?

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=55&t=89870&user_select%5B%5D=28527

Idk it just feels like night and day compared to this. Is there any spoecific example of a lategame replace that's similar to this you had in mind?

[Ausuka]

there's a way to 'end' this f5 by forcing a concession through hammer testing MT. is that too much?

This just seems like the optimal thing to do if we don't want to consider f3?

I mean I'm still having a little bit of hesitance about klick/MT but i don't know how realistic it is that i ever think it's mt over klick here

[Ausuka]

I'm not a strong scum player but I'm not poor enough to have essentially voluntarily entered a position like this from what would be a strong F7 LyLo position.

Like 'welp I must have been roleblocked you're right Gimli' would be a strictly better scum lie than 'I forgot to submit my action last night soz'.

I don't think mafia actually have a roleblocker

Like i mean clearly ~something~ interfered with enchant's role and it could be a gated rb at least but I would have been less inclined to believe that you were roleblocked and I am not sure how likely it is that you claim roleblocked with that in mind especially if you're not the blocking role here

[Ausuka]

Putting it another way, i would be more inclined to scumread you that way so i don't agree that you would be in a better place

[Ausuka]

Um, not especially?

Like maybe gimli can tell me if i'm potatoing or something, but i am pretty sure that would imply a full mafia RB which is like super unlikely to exist in any situation and scum would probably think this through and realise it

[Ausuka]

This is really good content gera!

is that sarcastic?

is that a U8 football coach pepping up the worst player on the team?

I know this probably sounds dumb but tbh quite a bit of my reasoning for thinking it's more likely to be klick than MT slot is this looks really really like a cheeky s/s interaction to me >.>

[Ausuka]

I changed my mind when i was reading through

[Ausuka]

*starts sussing ausuka*

This would genuinely be the funniest way to lose the game

[Ausuka]

Are you around for a next couple hours

I kind of want to iso klick one more time but if that doesn't change anything i'm fine to just end the day and stop going in circles

[Ausuka]

sure

[Ausuka]

Hi uh I did reread a bit when I was falling asleep

Unfortunately I didn't really come to any sort of satisfying conclusion because I'm in a position where I'm slightly more skeptical of MT but idk if I can vote for her over Klick like not.commenting on the peditgate

One of the things I was thinking about is that having her teammates be kawaii and geraintm would explain Sky's, well, everything?? Like would Klick let her go out there and claim informed detective who.checked the vig claim

[Ausuka]

Like I was thinking something along the lines of, oh Klick hates playing scum he said as much himself

But look how much he's done in this game compared to kawaii and I'm not sure it applies

[Ausuka]

If we're both not totally decided, scum don't have much advantage in choosing the F3 at least

It should be fine to vote for Gera right? If it's Klick and kawaii together or with you, I'm okay for it to end

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Geraintm

Whee here we go

[Ausuka]

So true

[Ausuka]

Ok uh I somehow managed to Klick my role last night sorry

I think I just read the fast night thing and read OOH FAST NIGHT and somehow forgot my fucking visionary

So it's my fault MT didn't get anything regardless

That being said uh I'm probably like more likely to vote Klick but it is like a possibility I vote for MT I think? I want to reread again and probably think about the mech talk we had knowing Geras role

I don't know what to do with the nightkill. I think either Klick or MT have reasons to kill gimli here

[Ausuka]

I think I probably have to not scumread the Klick role thing given the circumstances lol

I think kawaii's slot was never all that towny tbh. I wasn't a fan of how they tried to push me in elo and kind of went back on it immediately and wouldn't explain it when I asked. And like I do think Klick at least cares enough about the game to tell sky about the vig

I think the scummiest thing about Klick to me is not really addressing the elephant in the room about sky's hammer in the 7p elo. I think in general it's fine to take a breath and consider all possibilities, but I think when she claimed to not get a pedit on her posts that was just insanely unlikely and I don't think Klick really like considered it at the time at least openly? And like, there are a few other things about Klick I mentioned yesterday

[Ausuka]

This game has multitasking according to rules post so him being visitor wouldn't have like confirmed anything

If it had I would hopefully have remembered it lole

[Ausuka]

Hi

[Ausuka]

I am still tired tbh but.plan to triple check things at some point

Pedit: Hmm I can't disprove that but I don't think I'm too likely to buy into it since gimli seemed like kinda angry you were considering voting for him over sky and also I think I'm a weaker player than gimli in general so the kill makes sense for either of you

I am likely to do what I think regardless yes. Maybe if gimli had a clear opinion before he died but he didn't so

[Ausuka]

I can see the logic there but like.it didn't feel to me like Gimli wanted you to be town

I guess I should reread his posts and see if there's any indication of that

[Ausuka]

But like I feel like you were saying for most of yesterday that Gimli wanted you to be scum and he was seeing everything through that bias?

[Ausuka]

I mean I agree if that helps ^.^

[Ausuka]

Tbh I think this setup is scumsided anyways but that's a discussion for postgame

[Ausuka]

Hm I guess I can see that?

I'm not likely to weigh it too heavily tho sorry

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Morning Tweet

[Ausuka]

Yeah I was genuine about thinking this game is super scumsided and I don't feel like.i played that well

I'm mostly glad it's over and I didn't throw or whatever

[Ausuka]

The visionary thing was a stupid mistake

I would have targeted morning tweet if I wasn't so dumb and just forgot about it. It would have been interesting if it was a situation where I couldn't do that and also kill but it wasn't like that

I guess I got lazy with how drawn out the game was. I could have probably ended it earlier but I felt like it would have also increased the probability of losing by a lot if I had tried that

[Ausuka]

I wanted to vote for you 4 hours ago while I was out and I should have just done that and redeemed myself XD

I would have been so mad at myself if it went like that

[Ausuka]

You put in effort where it wasn't needed. You were the deciding factor at F7 and you chose to bus and also Skygazer disrupted that. The low synergy there along with the setup stuff is what made me just vote

Yeah I didn't think it was worth it trying to pivot away from sky there given how I reacted to that pedit thing

I also think not efforting if it wasn't necessary for scum to effort would have made me obvious over time

With the action thing, I don't think there's really anything realistic that could make it.the case. Maybe if I was a Lazy Compulsive Loud Visionary

[Ausuka]

But yeah I hadn't viewed the visionary as important since I didn't think it would change things based on if tweet knew you were a visitor too, I guess

It was a sloppy mistake and I probably didn't deserve to win but whatever

[Ausuka]

Despite pretending otherwise in parts of this game role stuff has never exactly been my forte lol

I do think I have a decent sense of normal.balance and this was very off that, and in practice the town roles.never posed a challenge to us

Pedit: Oh thanks that part was kind of planned

I was actually worried if someone would notice how I showed up and Sky like hammered right away. I said.i thought she could get away with it, because she said Mena was scummier than Gera in her posts and there was like an hour left. I think if she stuck to that line instead of like saying she didn't realise what was happening maybe f7 is more complex, although I guess it's possible that's not a good thing for us

[Ausuka]

The informed detective claim was explicitly not planned

[Ausuka]

VOTE: geraintm
Gimli pushing this isn't great but I think this flips red.more.often than mena.does sooo

i'd rather vote mena than gera and i think a flash wagon would just wind up with a no-elim here, there aren't enough ppl on

also ive always wanted to lolhammer so

VOTE: menalque

24 second time difference

[Ausuka]

Oh yeah no we had absolutely no information

I wanted her to claim a role with a modifier because the roles mostly have modifiers and like, mods include modifiers in roles a lot more often than scum claim modifiers I think. I told her like, all the roles in this game have been claimed with modifiers, which was true except kawaii actually hadn't and I was exaggerating but skygazer interpreted it literally so it was kind of my fault I guess?

I suggested indecisive JOAT

[Ausuka]

It definitely worked out in the end though lole

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't really say either of you played badly

I mean this game was scumsided and you still took it to f3

[Ausuka]

During the early game I thought most of the pushes against me didn't make much sense but like it doesn't really matter what I think and like even if it's mostly NAI stuff having one or two good points is enough to make your reads pretty good

Like gimli was right about me and enchant I think. Like, i would have townread enchant as town, but i would have been significantly less assertive about it. I wanted to avoid the appearance I was trying to take credit for an enchant townflip without fighting it, and I'm not sure whether that was a wrong decision, but Gimli was right that it wasn't natural.

I was sort of surprised by Enchant suddenly going from having like pretty average reads to like SUPER DUPER AMAZING reads at the end of d3 but like, communication and whatever

[Ausuka]

And yeah sorry MT I didn't want to risk losing but I think it's more likely than not if i had pushed to end the game before you replaced in it would have worked and it would have saved you a lot of time >.>

[Ausuka]

this is awfully illegal of me (pls don't ban me I have games to play) but I have to get going in a few minutes and I won't be here to give props to ausuka but I just wanna say ausuka you're the absolute best. I didn't play well nor did town play well but part of it was because you made this game impossible to solve.

klick I'm sorry for the tunnel, it wouldn't matter in the end even if I townread you cause I'd still get it wrong

thanks MT for replacing into a lost position, you're the best

I'm sorry elsa jay, I couldn't make up for that d2 misflip with a win </3

gg all thanks implosion for modding this mess of a game

Gimli noooooo what if Morning Tweet is a town vengeful 2-shot hider

[Ausuka]

(It's something I even considered due to the lack of town power that a vengeful might exist but if the game ends that way it'd be hilarious and I'd be impressed kawaii thought to hide it)

[Ausuka]

yeah no the setup was brutal for you guys

I feel bad for taking advantage of it but it would be against my win condition to not bring it up

poedit: yeah I knew that. sky was ready to die in that day and she said she thought it would make me look good, which ended up working out

[Ausuka]

when HK mafia was ending I was like "what if klick is BP, what if someone can still hide and fuck up my kill and I don't have parity and I outed myself?" and that paranoia was constantly in the back of my head to the point where I was HUNTING FOR A BULLETPROOF by constantly making reference to it in the thread

Yeah i referenced it in this game but i've won a solo scum game before more similar to that and I had similar thoughts there

This is a bit different since even though gera and sky were fine with dying they were actively working to help me as they did

[Ausuka]

I also don't have any objections to releasing the pt

[Ausuka]

With the "scum sucks" thing, shrug there weren't a lot of good kills early

It's not like the hider and visitor claims.need to be nightkilled

[Ausuka]

I'd be interested to see the reviewer thread for this game

[Ausuka]

And yeah thanks for targeting gimli sky lol

[Ausuka]

Ty implo!

I guess you can't expect everyone to agree on balance, shrug

[Ausuka]