Mini Normal 2298 - Game Over!

[Cephrir]

gimli opening d2 with "woe is me i voted someone i didn't think was scum" and then lolhammering later is certainly a series of events

[Cephrir]

i really don't regret misyeeting enchant even when i saw he was a vig.
Letting enchant live with vig was never good

Maybe I could've died tho. Which is probably all I'm good for atp

oh hey another crumb

[Cephrir]

1113 - this question to gimli seems like genuine confusion... i had elpis/gimli slot as my leading theory going into this post, but i don't know that elpis would call her partner out like this. going to the scum pt to clear it up seems to me to make a lot more sense

[Cephrir]

i will simply compute a weighted average of dead town's reads giving more weight to players who were nightkilled by scum and who survived longer (i probably will not do this)

[Cephrir]

the neighbor spec people are pretty much all flipped town huh.

that's disappointing

[Cephrir]

i hear random.org is poppin this time of year

[Cephrir]

i think everyone who suspected me today should maybe be mailed to the sun im so town

[Cephrir]

i think there's virtually no chance it's andante & elpis off these day 2 interactions eg 1169


1262 is kind of an interesting post in light of our current knowledge that gimli/elpis/marquis was absolutely not 3 townies and in fact was imo probably two scum


1328
-this gimli townread seems... really really flimsy, no?
-remarkably certain about NM, but i guess they haven't seen him before
-this marquis townread (1330) also seems really flimsy. if you forgot your scumbuddy on purpose, props

atp ive concluded that andante is town and i'm just trying to find the team in the remaining places it can be

[Cephrir]

im fine conceding to an andante/elpis scumteam they're absolute gods if it's them

[Peregrine]

Hello!!

[Peregrine]

1262 is interesting to me in that! I think that if Gimli/Merlyn is mafia, it is a mirror into what Gimli's motivations were this game (which I think will be easier to map out on a better iso!): Gimli, if he was mafia, wanted to play in a very aggressive manner and did not bother avoiding TMI as much as he could have! To me, I know I am town and I believe Elpis is most likely as well.

[Cephrir]

no matter who scum is they are putting out pools of T/T/T teams all game =_=

[Peregrine]

Brian Skies - idk scum?
Andante - town
Marquis - town
Not_Mafia - idk
Gimli - town actually thanks
Cephrir - town probably
Ethel - town
Elpis - town
Save The Dragons - town prob
NorwegianboyEE - scum?
Firebringer - scum?

thats it brian/norwee/FBer

that's a team that kills MT as well 100%

These reads precede that post! And knowing what we do now, if Gimli is mafia (which I am feeling more confident of than before. Or! I have gotten over the discomfort I have for being wrong with my reads and am more willing to state them!) he was indeed picking a few townies to kill off if possible.

I think the Not_Mafia read is the equivalent of hedging your bets on a partner who could go over more likely, or be suspected/pressured more, by virtue of who they are and how they play, given reactions to him!

[Peregrine]

I do think that this game is rather hard!

[Peregrine]

495 - oh, that's why he didn't vote. this should have been obvious to me

514 - i am inclined to think this interaction is not a scumbuddy interaction. interested in others' thoughts here.

maybe i should try some cursory andante meta and see if i can tell the difference. she makes so many posts tho i can't see myself doing the kind of reading it would take to do it properly. im garbo at intentional meta like this anyway tho i guess im just looking for a significant vibe difference

Why do you think that 514 is not a mafia/mafia interaction?

[Peregrine]

It's Ethel btw

I am voice for the dead!

ethel was the neighbour who was ignoring him btw

I do think its ethel (as scum)

ooh ethel was enchant's neighbor? I've never seen town neighbors... also I thought ethel was scummy d1!

also, I think enchant's role was so freaking cool, it was so enchant too!! I really wish he got to use it!!

I! Don't know if I am misreading the context of this but I find this a little unbelievable, never having seen town neighbors, but I do not know how many games Andante has played with neighbors!

[Peregrine]

I actually think Andante's posting during day two is! Pretty bad!

[Peregrine]

It's when a replacement enters the game and immediately comments on the scumminess of their slot

When you rep in do you not look at the top wagon? It's not my fault top wagon just so happened to be me, and like this is all you keep doing? rather than comment on anything else game related it's "get andante!!" but like you're not even voting me

VOTE: Not Mafia

It actually goes back to day one! I think this is going to be disorganized but I want to try and arrange my thoughts!
This was Andante's second vote, in this moment I do not think that there is a lot to say, or was at this point in the game.

[Cephrir]

495 - oh, that's why he didn't vote. this should have been obvious to me

514 - i am inclined to think this interaction is not a scumbuddy interaction. interested in others' thoughts here.

maybe i should try some cursory andante meta and see if i can tell the difference. she makes so many posts tho i can't see myself doing the kind of reading it would take to do it properly. im garbo at intentional meta like this anyway tho i guess im just looking for a significant vibe difference

Why do you think that 514 is not a mafia/mafia interaction?

hm. i think it wasn't something she was playing up. also nm's call to get andante to e-1 so he can hammer seems like too far to push a distancing interaction so qwuickly

[Cephrir]

yeah I'm not voting out norwee today/tomorrow (whenever we lim)

finally something that makes the norwe kill make even the slightest amount of sense

[Peregrine]

Since I think I should give my own opinion once in a while, I don't feel like scumreading nsg myself. Her explanations made sense to me so far, and if it's true that nsg really doesn't like playing as scum, then this doesn't seem to be the case. Or at least, I couldn't imagine writing as much as her if I hated this game. Of course people are very different in that regard and I'm not saying nsg can't be scum, I just think that the arguments used so far don't necessarily indicate scum. Anyways, that's why I'm voting Andante instead of nsg right now. I don't think bob's slot was particularly scummy, but neither towny, and since other people are voting there who I think are townish, I can't be too wrong with that vote, right? And I don't want to be a straggler, if enough people feel like ending this day I want to give them the opportunity to do so.

you don't sr nsg... for non game related stuff? like you say "and if it's true that nsg really doesn't like playing as scum, then this doesn't seem to be the case." what have you seen thus far that screams nsg is really happy to be here playing the game? like all the words with ceph, those were just whatever, not really related to this game in any way, like, if "all those words" were related to reads this game, sure whatever, but you're just declaring nsg town for this reason that doesn't make sense to actually tr anyone for.

"That's why you're voting andante instead" like what even? "bob wasn't scummy" WHAT GAME ARE YOU PLAYING HERE


like, yes "give your own thoughts" we want that, but like, I'm reading this and it genuinely doesn't sound like you are trying to scumhunt. You are on my wagon simply because others are, not because you SR me. and you literally say you don't think this slot is scummy. SO WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME.

and then you proceed to say you tr nsg for all this personality talk or whatever, and that automatically makes nsg town since they hate being scum. like hello? nsg isn't actively scumhunting, people who love being town significantly more tend to... scumhunt.

honestly the more I think about this, Ethel is simply just scum like, "I don't think bob was scummy" is literally so after I flip green they can go "haha yeah didn't think they were scum"

like sorry not sorry, I wanna flip scum today, and if you want to flip town? I think that's like an actual scumslip here.
I'm never unvoting this,
VOTE: Ethel

But! This post is the beginning of an extended tunnel on Ethel that I do not think makes any sense in retrospect!

I think that Ethel explained reasonably why they voting and acting as they did! They using meta information and comparing it to NSG's posts, and decided it was town behavior for her. They were reasonably null on Bob! But they had townreads on people voting Andante, and so they wagoned.

But looking at Andante's reaction, I do not understand the level of outrage in response. Ethel was townreading NSG for game related reasons, in that her posting level did not match their assumptions of what a mafia-NSG would want to contribute. But Andante dismisses this, and gets loud, and I cannot help but feel! As if this is a way to yell down what I think is a reasonable post, even if it is not married to hard-logic "reads" posting by Ethel. (I think this is an obtuse way to refer to it, using meta and general behavior rather than what another person says, but I think it has merit!)

And then Andante makes a bolder accusation to say that Ethel was preparing to chain eliminations, which! Feels like a reach in this post, and worse with the retrospect of Ethel's flip.

[Peregrine]

Andante ahmished tell'd, get him to e-1

I! Think that this is potentially a post someone can make about their teammate. I do not think that there was much weight behind Not_Mafia's push onto Andante, as it was tied only to this 'tell' from what I can see in his iso.

And as people are aware of his behavior, from what I've gathered, around being someone who likes to hammer! It makes people wary to do this regardless! Meaning he is far less likely to be in the position to follow through on a hammer, while still looking good from making the post!

[Peregrine]

if you want to persuade me that you're town go do something other than defend yourself

cause all this feels like ceph is trying to push all this non game related talk? idk how I'd classify this, like, why not go push reads? challenge nsg's read on whoever, but these past like 10-20 posts, I'm skimming like "ehhh not a fan"

...non game related? seems very game related to me

how do i challenge the reads of someone who barely has any

why are you trying this hard to find a scumread on me

I tried reading those nsg posts, but I was struggling to understand them, they just felt a lot more like just trying to discourage someone from making reads than "hey you have no reads, what are you thinking" and I had flashbacks to when people would get me going on a tangent and then I'd just be so out of the mood for making reads/caring.
I'm not "trying that hard to find a sr on you"
I'm playing a game with a table of lots of people I know, which I already struggle at reading, so I'm trying to see yall as town, and letting yall know where my concerns are

It's when a replacement enters the game and immediately comments on the scumminess of their slot

When you rep in do you not look at the top wagon? It's not my fault top wagon just so happened to be me, and like this is all you keep doing? rather than comment on anything else game related it's "get andante!!" but like you're not even voting me

VOTE: Not Mafia

look at it? sure. iso it? hmmmm. it is strange that NM didn't vote tho

like, ever since I showed up it's "OFF WITH ANDANTE'S HEAD CAUSE TELL"
and I'm just like, bruh... I literally always look at wagons, I don't think bob was scummy lol he had some posts I liked so yeah. idk I want ethel today. cause if ethel is actively trying to lim people they don't sr? yeah no thanks, I'm not doing lylo with them

ethel said your slot was neither towny nor scummy so she's null on you, not voting who she thinks is town

"I didn't think bob was scummy"
THEN WHAT ABOUT THAT MAKES ME THE BEST PERSON HERE TO VOTE???

I'm not misrepping lol like "I don't think X was scummy" then what makes you think they'll flip scum? we're 500 posts in, no one has done ANYTHING scummy to ethel?

she's saying you're null, not that you're town

you're saying "i'm never unvoting she's voting for someone she thinks is town"

unless i'm misunderstanding you?

I'm saying she said she doesn't think I'm scummy, yet made this whole point about how she's voting me, and has TERRIBLE reasoning for TRing nsg, so "andante slot aint scummy, but I'm voting them cause it's the best option" is like, that screams scum to me

you're not even reading her posts or mine

IM READING BOTH YALLS

honestly, if I shit post and random vote, I feel like my accuracy will go up, meanwhile I think 607's "i have convinced myself andante is town" means fire is scum laughing about how I'm their 4th member. the team is gonna be like fire/norwee/third and I'm missing the party ._.

fire, have we played a single game where we weren't scum together other than this game? lmaoo like, as I think about it, we've literally always been scum buddies XD

my memory is bad XD but I'm thinking back to the penguin one where it was all "haha we're scum" in thread and flashbacks hahahaha not that I wanna lim you d1 here, but yeah

If ur not trying to get a reado n me with that question and im overanalyzing it. Let me know

you are definitely overanalyzing it.

i don't understand why people are townreading cephrir beyond a bias towards townreading high activity slots.

who is townreading me? first ive heard of it. maybe std?

elpis has you at the top.

VOTE: andante

why are you voting andante?

probably cause I said she was scummy tbh

Sorry! I am trying not to clog up the thread with all of Andante's posts but it feels kind of necessary!

From this, and in general, I can gather that I do not think that Cephrir/Andante are a team from the back and forth. I think that she was trying to ingratiate herself to Firebringer (which pops up again in her posts later, which is why I am highlighting this!) And it also highlights a behavior of trying to undercut people who are voting her, but not in a very logical way! It feels more like a low-hanging attack, to accuse someone of OMGUSing like the last post!

[Cephrir]

i cannot help but think that your overuse of exclamation points is an alt schtick

i think im done for now, might look at dead town later

[Peregrine]

And also, that it feels artificial to continue pushing someone on the same idea rather than expanding it! I feel as if a town player, when tunneled, takes everything that someone does and incorporates it into their reasoning! But so far it seems that Andante is focused on what she believes is a logical case that others should follow.