TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[DkKoba]

I don't think there's any realistic chance that we go for a non-Koba lim today, but I'm also not in a rush and don't want to assume that Koba is feigning RL circumstances to stall.

If you were to kill anyone other than me who would it be?

[DkKoba]

I won't have computer until Friday or Saturday likely so please hold off on ending day till then(plus I might be able to clear myself off dayplay)

Nice stalling tactic.

I had a family emergency a week or so ago that put my life in turmoil and I just moved to a new place today and haven't even unpacked yet, I'm not stalling, I genuinely want to go into limlo with what hopefully is a solve, chances of town winning is slim especially considering the joke of PR roles in this setup lol

[DkKoba]

@mastina wouldn't you say the setup so far is way too scumsided to exist with me as scum?

[DkKoba]

@shirou why did you tie me to kowah?

Because I thought both of you were scummy and interacting in a weird way? I already explained myself on D2 and it was a developing read before you quickhammered it.

I don't see how this is relevant for sorting me even in a world where you suspect me though, what good would "tying" you with a townie "soon-to-be-flipped" be for scum!me? If anything it would discredit my read/push on you in the following day.

I'm trying to solve the game believe it or not lmao

What posts gave you that impression?

[DkKoba]

I'd definitely like freedom to like give reads and do stuff that is readable but idk if that's on the cards

Same. But I think its normal for him to be like this fwiw

[DkKoba]

Hmmmm

It's more difficult than I thought to play like this with an obvious suspect and not yet having like actual confirmation of their alignment

I asked this in the hood but i should probably ask here too, does anyone have like elaboration on the DGB meta

Shrug feel free to preflip me and solve off that and I can offer my perspective if it's a good independently scummy slot.
/shirou/dgb sounds reasonable rn

[DkKoba]

dv*

[DkKoba]

I think shirou/freedom is just a difference check

[DkKoba]

I just don’t understand how a multitasker is town
I don’t understand why you RB’d me N1

Rolecop wifom + I scumread you at that point?

[DkKoba]

I basically claimed my role and you legit ducked me

You did not until after the block???

[DkKoba]

At this point we're just doing nothing until Dk is hammered. Why wait.

Look - if I'm scum I'm offering *free spew*.
Free of charge.

Speaking of charge, this is similar as Charge it Up! Where I was fake guiltied (obv different bc this isn't a hard guilty, but a pseudo one) and people decided I was scum(although to this games credit I'm not goating as hard as I was that game)
Extending the day and forcing conversation helped find last scum bc they just fell asleep while we were discussing.

The longer we extend day the more those scum twiddling thumbs will become apparent.

And if I'm scum as I said, free spew.

[DkKoba]

I don't think there's any realistic chance that we go for a non-Koba lim today, but I'm also not in a rush and don't want to assume that Koba is feigning RL circumstances to stall.

If you were to kill anyone other than me who would it be?

is this literally you asking me who I think your buddies are?

Stalling the question?

[DkKoba]

An update to my reads though would be that Koba replaces DV as my strongest SR.
Though it's mainly because of that quickhammer as I feel like Koba could very well be bussed rn.
On the other hand, Koba and DV's interactions don't really look aligned.

Who fits with me then?

[DkKoba]

THIS IS WHAT KOBA WANTS
FOR US TO STALL
SO THEY CAN WIGGLE OUT

NONONONONONOO

THEY ARE BEING LIMMED
THERES NO WAY TOWN HAS A MULITASKER

NOPE

KOBA IS TODAYS LIM

I am on NRG and multitasking is a legal modifier for town, and I would approve a setup like this with a multitasking town. So, no, prepare to eat crow when I flip green.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: dgb
Who townreads this at this point?

[DkKoba]

show me a setup wheres it a town role

When I have my PC setup sometime in the next few days I'll add that to the list of things I'm going to do. I remember an old setup I skimmed that had exactly that. Do you really think a rolecop can just get guilties for free like that? It's the same as putting a pt cop in a setup with a neighborizer and so on.

[DkKoba]

I'm not going to signal to scum I have a PR role either like be serious. I didn't expect to be checked because I traditionally am a player who dodges investigatives (despite being a good target for them lol)

[DkKoba]

Is mastinas role even possible for town here if I'm also town

[DkKoba]

like unless you're arguing scum have 2 goons because 2 guiltyable roles sounds crazy

[DkKoba]

right
ok

and what purpose if I'm going to likely flip anyways and flip red do I have for trying today?

[DkKoba]

i don't really have an issue 'finding koba partners' or whatever - i think they can be being bussed, today but also in general even in the early game scum tend to bus p often

I probably need to re-evaluate xoffy

Ok who is bussing me then?

[DkKoba]

Also, we want something to discuss? Alright.

If we're all so confident Koba is scum, why not assume this is already D4 and Koba flipped Mafia Multitasking Roleblocker already?

What slots would we be interested on pressuring in that likely scenario?

I do have thoughts on this but was hesitant to do this while Koba's still alive, partly because of the (probably very unlikely) town-koba scenario, but mostly because I wasn't necessarily sure I wanted scum knowing where I'd be going. This is probably OTT caution on my part though, so if enough people are wanting discussion today I'm happy to share my Koba-scum-world thoughts.

Can you answer my previous question then?

[DkKoba]

Is mastinas role even possible for town here if I'm also town

So you know mastina is town

No, I know *I'm* town and you will sorely find that out sometime in the next week.

[DkKoba]

I feel like no one is actually trying to use logic beyond the mechanics here and it's frustrating af lol

[DkKoba]

Koba to be completely honest I don’t actually feel that compelled to answer your question after 447.
Am I bitter and mad at myself for letting you get away with it? Yes probably, I’ll admit that. But enough’s enough.

You're not being helpful

[DkKoba]

You must have missed it, but Koba, I wanted to know what exactly did you do last night?

I already outted results but: n1 Mala, n2 shirou.

Was trying to catch a deepwolf killing

[DkKoba]

Okay sure.

I think the Freedom slot is still going to be a big one for me. I was looking back at Arko's posts before and the Koba-read caught my eye, particularly 650 where he provides teammate thoughts and says:
"DKKoba is probably town from a mechanical point of view and I agree but I don't feel it 100%. Plus their general vibe was good to them. For now I'm putting moderate town to them."
Particularly knowing Koba's role I wonder if this is tmi in some way? I don't think we ever found out what he meant by "a mechanical point of view" but it seems like a conveniently empty way to townread a scumbuddy.
I also think Freedom's reaction to this day has been a bit odd. Clarifying that they scumread Koba because of the quickhammer and not Mastina's result seems like trying too hard to "own" the scumread and the immediate thought of "mastina could be bussing" is not... what I would have expected, and not a thought I had.

I'm also looking at DGB because of all the play today it looks potentially the most bus-like to me. The hounding of Koba feels very different from their previous play this game and I think that town may have thought twice about accusing someone of "stalling" when their talking about RL circumstances but if you're in BUS MODE I could see someone just going for it.

I do have niggles of doubt about both xofelf and Ausuka as well but I kind of want to explore that in the neighbourhood overnight.

Bro what

[DkKoba]

Why are you trying to end day early now? I am literally offering spew if I'm scum lmao

[DkKoba]

Why would I claim that I would visit ydrasse unless I knew for some reason that there was a town watcher ?
And with a scum rolecop too?

It was literally just a gambit to draw a kill bc ysrasse claimed investigative.
I looked bad and removing me from poe via nightkill was preferable

[DkKoba]

gg I was town

[DkKoba]

guilty on the koba slot was gamelosing

if you read scumchat i had a major life event around the time and a bus was optimal for me there to not drag down, figured 2 for 1 was good enough.

mastina had it if she didnt... try to get townread by shirou (??) and instead thunderdomed them for not protecting xof


i was in my teamchat just yelling "pls kill xof and visit shirou and thunderdome the one thats relevant"


also this setup was too townsided imo esp for a team mafia format... too much ease of clearing and easy hints at scum roles, with an inability to reliably fakeclaim or block the 2 docs that could follow the cop on eachother, im a bit against setups where scum are intended to magically know what roles they need to aim for and who has those roles in order to not be in a losing scenario instead of being able to just aim for maybe a PR read here and mainly focus on killing people with good townplay.

mafia are supposed to be an informed party and they felt very uninformed here :/

gg tho

mafia got barely lucky with night actions and still couldnt overcome the setup

[DkKoba]

if you read scumchat i had a major life event around the time and a bus was optimal for me there to not drag down, figured 2 for 1 was good enough.

I think you getting bussed is fine but the guilty I think would never happen if mastina was actually town. I also thought that was in line for what would happen if you were mafia.
If mastina is a town rolecop I believe they just get roleblocked

i do not fear guilties as scum, i in fact, welcome them if i am suspecting i will die because it chokes the gamestate. shirou was deadass wrong about that fact and it was amusing but also annoying that it was right for the wrong reasons

[DkKoba]

i think normal games should have hoods that are closed during the nightphase btw, hoods are a great balancing mechanic but *forcing scum in hoods to fake solve overnight and letting town leave legacies after flips is so powerful*

[DkKoba]

if you read scumchat i had a major life event around the time and a bus was optimal for me there to not drag down, figured 2 for 1 was good enough.

I think you getting bussed is fine but the guilty I think would never happen if mastina was actually town. I also thought that was in line for what would happen if you were mafia.
If mastina is a town rolecop I believe they just get roleblocked

i do not fear guilties as scum, i in fact, welcome them if i am suspecting i will die because it chokes the gamestate. shirou was deadass wrong about that fact and it was amusing but also annoying that it was right for the wrong reasons

it was me that planted that idea in his head.

if cop wants to waste an investigative on a person who just scumclaimed through dayplay it spews less people town LOL

[DkKoba]

Tbh, not protecting me was the right move, cuz I never would have seen DV. Excellent job of managing I think.

eeeeeeeeh tbh I thought wolves wouldn't shoot you if we threatened the doc on you. I was really surprised to see that you got shot and that wolves called protecting you as a bluff. It's def the right play

between this and the mario game, the lesson is: DO YOUR OPTIMAL ACTION ESP WHEN THERES MECHANICAL BENEFIT.

its like in pokemon trying to predict something weird and end up getting reverse swept when the best play is to just kill whats in front of you so your opponent doesnt get a foothold

[DkKoba]

Also, Koba, even though we were not on the same side, I genuinely enjoyed playing with you. Hope your RL stuff has improved.

thank you! you were a slot I felt I needed to kill in my gut but I just had bigger fish i needed to go for unfortunately.

[DkKoba]

guilty on the koba slot was gamelosing

if you read scumchat i had a major life event around the time and a bus was optimal for me there to not drag down, figured 2 for 1 was good enough.

mastina had it if she didnt... try to get townread by shirou (??) and instead thunderdomed them for not protecting xof


i was in my teamchat just yelling "pls kill xof and visit shirou and thunderdome the one thats relevant"


also this setup was too townsided imo esp for a team mafia format... too much ease of clearing and easy hints at scum roles, with an inability to reliably fakeclaim or block the 2 docs that could follow the cop on eachother, im a bit against setups where scum are intended to magically know what roles they need to aim for and who has those roles in order to not be in a losing scenario instead of being able to just aim for maybe a PR read here and mainly focus on killing people with good townplay.

mafia are supposed to be an informed party and they felt very uninformed here :/

gg tho

mafia got barely lucky with night actions and still couldnt overcome the setup

You oversold it though. You made it all theatrical with the quickhammer which made it obvious.

the quickhammer was purely to not lose one of the very few slots that were actually killable in this game

[DkKoba]

mastina had it if she didnt... try to get townread by shirou (??) and instead thunderdomed them for not protecting xof

I've literally never been limmed as town after my newbie game, good luck I guess...

also this setup was too townsided imo esp for a team mafia format... too much ease of clearing and easy hints at scum roles, with an inability to reliably fakeclaim or block the 2 docs that could follow the cop on eachother

The argument that you couldn't fakeclaim is literal headcannon.

You were neither announcing or loud, you could easily fakeclaim or not claim a PR at all.

Mastina was loud but she wasn't announcing, which meant she only had to claim a PR of sorts, and given she could knew what people role were, it wasn't that hard.

You could only get guilted by the watcher, it was the unique PR you really had to avoid.

I don't think this setup was unbalanced as much as it was a bad idea to trueclaim the scum roles...and also we got lucky that I never targeted the watcher before massclaim I guess.

It's not only about mechanical guilties. Roles strongly implied as town roles, having to guess which PR is a threat to you(jk and doc together with a watcher!)
We had a scumrole *forced* to claim a PR and just visitor would be a scumclaim among 2 FVs

I invite you to rand scum in a setup like this and think about the PoV of scum being uninformed into a massclaim that suddenly invalidates half your killable slots