so uh actually i think this is a metric ive had a lot of success with. i can't even remember a time that ive misread you (or if i was conflicted, pushed for your lim) when we're both town once it gets into mid/late game
skitter30 wrote:
ok, why did you think that - i was referring to her string of posts 72-74 which were *wild* and completely out of touch with the game that i was reading, especially the implo post
and what maeks it 'disingenuous' vs me just having a different opinion than you
I thought that it was towny that she was dispensing with the rvs humour and just digging her heels right into the game.
From what little I know of Andante's play, I think that she is usually very rapid-fire and spontaneous so the whole 72-74 sequence didn't seem out of character.
And I specifically thought it was disingenuous because frankly I find it absurd to just reduce Andante's posting to just "random stuff".
I agree with the first bit, but
that doesnt make someone town
She can be rapidfire as bith alignments, sure. I don't have an issue with that. My issue is specifically that she was having takes that ~didnt align with the current game~ -> jumping to implosion being sk at post 72 is, actually, wild imo,
do you think that's a typical thought for town to have at that point
?
Bolded 1: Sure, that might not guarantee it, but I'd still argue it's >rand town.
In post 1413, skitter30 wrote:
My issue is specifically that she was having takes that ~didnt align with the current game~ -> jumping to implosion being sk at post 72 is, actually, wild imo, do you think that's a typical thought for town to have at that point?
i think it's a very typical thought for andante to have
I can't remember who it was who said they were suspicious of Andanteslot because she didn't die overnight. I wanted to point out that there may be a simple explanation for that, which is that in a majority of rolls of this setup, scum has a roleblocker. (I'm also like, not completely ruling out that scum could have left the slot alive even without an RB for the wifom, although I think it is much less likely.)
Also in hindsight the "did your slot take an action yes/no" was counterproductive and we should just have asked Merlyn to confirm she was a PR. I haven't thought about this very hard, but I buy her entrance in the game so far as town who's naturally protective of their PR status.
, can you tell me why you decided to push Menalque as one of your first actions in the game?
in 1186, i had seen in the prior post that ceph had him as top town and i was surprised by that so i wanted to talk to him about it, since i leaned town on ceph and it was a significant place where our reads differed
post 1203 was responding to skitter when she asked about it, which was again just me explaining why i wasn't sold on him being cleared for it and why i thought it could come from him as scum
thats about all my thought process was at the time, it was just responding to stuff, i didn't make an active choice to push mena. i think at the time i finished my catchup my plan for the next day as far as active posting was to talk about my issues with implosion, but then i kinda ended up feeling them less strongly as time went on, so i never ended up doing it. im not really sure i scumread implosion anymore fwiw
but then when mena started responding to me i did make an active choice to push him a little bit bc i know that while he is good at realtiming and faking emotional responses as scum, there's a level of "ok im gonna prove myself right now" that can happen as town that i don't think he would pull out as scum there, and so it could be useful to see if it does, even if i don't really enjoy the experience lol
Cool thanks
That was roughly my interpretation of your thought process if you were town, but I didn't want to impose my interpretation in case it was wrong.
In post 1359, Aisa wrote:
The things that signal to me this might be a town!fire post are:
- I like that it's a meta read and that he is able to describe how skitt's play here seems different from her towngame in some detail.
- I find the pacing and trajectory before he made this post convincing. Like, he read the game, thought of a few slots he suspected, but was undecided for a bit about who to push. And then he deconfused himself and decided to push skitter. This is probably isn't all that AI because he says he is good at keeping a consistent and cohesive mindset. But I guess that if he is scum here I can confirm that he is lol
- idk why this is town-indicative, he should be able to explain how he views my game generally as either alignment? and if he's scum and wants to push me he's more incentivized to do that?
- well, i think that he had to back down from his mena push when mena pushed back and had to find somewhere else to push so like i don't really find this as townie as you do. it looks to me like he just needed to find a new push
- I find that the reads I am most convinced of are often meta reads, so I liked that meta seemed to be behind his convinction that you were scum. If he is scum here he could also have chosen to push you on anything else. For example, he could have just pushed you for your position in the game, without referring to meta as explicitly. I think that would have been an easier route? Or I would find it easier in his position? As for being able to explain how he views your game in general, I'm sure he can do that as either alignment, but for that to translate into a workable push on you he would need to get lucky that you're not playing to your usual meta. Or he's just lying about how he views your game.
- Ok, I accept that he probably needed to find a new push as either alignment.
PS: moving may be my least favourite activity in the whole world, so I hope that goes well.
To those who worried the wagon on enchant was too easy yesterday — look how much more difficult the fire wagon is proving to be and there is a more meaningful effort to counterwagon onto skitt
I go back and forth on ceph as lazy scum and lazy town
Like he pretty much always can be scum here and maybe he’s just cleverly playing on being null
But even if that is what he’s doing it’s kinda working because I wanna kill the players I think are being actively scummy first before I would kill him due to the fact he could be town who can’t get into the game and/or is just being lazy with it
and why do you think my mena push is more likely to come from me as scum
a lot of alianna's takes were questionable at best. she's very obvious of being town when she's town and contributing, here her thoughts felt a lot more forced
i'm also nto sure she would have replaced as town, and the fact that the slot went thru two replacements is questionable to me
for mena: i feel like you tried p hard to read his posts in not good faith. more importantly, i feel like when you realized you couldn't make it stick, you backed down: you didn't 'have conviction in what you were posting, and i found that scummy
I'm dubious skitter actually thinks this about fire pushing Mena. I'm not sure why fire not having conviction in what he was saying is scummy; of course I'm biased because I'm the queen of hedge, but, like townies can change their minds and I'm not sure why fire changing his mind in the way he did is considered scummy. I also disagree about him trying to not read Mena's posts in good faith. A lot of fire's posting on Mena seems like a direct result of
being asked about the read
, it's not like he's was going that much out of his way to cast shade on Mena.
Here's like a post-by-post discussion
Spoiler: fire's initial thoughts on Mena
In post 1184, Cephrir wrote:
here i'll just make a list off the top of my head. maybe i should iso myself later to remember what my opinions are, ive honestly just been waiting for your slot to die
{menalque, mega (where are you tho?)}
{dunnstral, sheep (i think? i forget), implosion}
{egix, aureal}
{skitter, aisa}
{fire}
i am so checked out of this game that i started isoing the enchant slot to remember what my read on it is. wow
In post 1186, fireisredsir wrote:
does the confidence on mena come from his worldbuilding thing he did or is there more to it
i wasn't really that impressed by it but i dunno
In post 1188, fireisredsir wrote:
from my (admittedly not that well-researched) knowledge of mena's scumgame that seems pretty in his wheelhouse
i think of his main skills as being able to vibe real-time and successfully posture/front when he wants to seem confident in a solve
it's more effort than he's put into scumgames recently but eh
In post 1190, fireisredsir wrote:
my biggest issue rn is that the 3 people im most interested in are also people that i think are easier to solve with a "wait and see" approach
thats why i was thinking i was probably gonna vote dunn until i got to his post about andante, and now i think he's probably town
so im not sure what to do
Prior to this interaction, fire mentions scumreading Mena but doesn't really case him. I remember having the exact same reaction of "why is Mena that high" to Ceph's readslist. I think fire's behaviour here is all consistent with a genuine attempt to understand Ceph + Mena and I don't feel like he's going out of his way to discredit Mena.
In post 1188, fireisredsir wrote:
from my (admittedly not that well-researched) knowledge of mena's scumgame that seems pretty in his wheelhouse
i think of his main skills as being able to vibe real-time and successfully posture/front when he wants to seem confident in a solve
it's more effort than he's put into scumgames recently but eh
Why do you think mena could/would do that as scum
Like you said right after, i think his scumgame is more abt vibing in real time and buddying people
I think he's less likely to come up with a elaborate multi-day reaction test depending on a town-slot flipping scum if he were scum
because when you look at the actual posts he made most of them were just asking people busy work questions or general theory and not actually doing anything that i think would be difficult to fake
i don't think his progression to get to the point of having the game solved is particularly believable either
i dunno maybe it was due to reading it all at once but it felt a little too on the nose and telegraphed. in 570 he's talking all about how its better to wagon other people than enchant to look for reactions better
then like his next posts are 623 and 625 which look way more to me like someone who just got a fun idea of a gimmick they can pull than someone who has been genuinely planning this since prior to the woo vote
and then he asks people a bunch of questions. and then wowwww he does his big reveal where he says he's being doing that thing which he earlier said would be the towny thing to do
idk im not saying it's a scummy thing to do, i just don't think it's clearing. its like slightly +town but i think his posting overall feels too constructed and i don't see places where i can actually see his thoughts developing and changing. it feels more like he has picked positions to have at certain points and then is doing a pretty good job at working within that framework, rather than those positions developing naturally
Then skitt literally asks about him the read, which is what prompts the elaboration on the slot.
In post 1208, implosion wrote:
I kind of see why Menalque immediately responds that way to fire's 1203 beyond just the post calling Menalque out. It feels like a very overwrought thought process. Like this assertion that Menalque must have had the whole spiel planned out from before the woo vote as town when like, part of what he was doing was asking questions.
like fire, you're saying "I don't find his reads progression believable, it doesn't seem like he genuinely had this planned since before the woo vote and all he does is ask a bunch of questions then give this big reveal" and like. yeah... the point of questions is to change your mind? I think at least part of this is me misinterpreting something but this whole post from fire just feels like either scum having a conclusion that they think they can justify and wanting to justify it, or possibly town who got a gut scumread on Menalque from reading and is now trying to back-justify why that scumread makes sense in the context of his progression without having really thought much about it before typing the words out because the read actually came from gut. And it doesn't sound like that's what fire
thinks
the read is. This probably doesn't make any sense though so alas
i think you're misinterpreting yeah
mena is the one claiming that he had it all planned out and that everything was a reaction test going back to the woo vote (see 889). im saying that doesn't feel right based on his posting, and i don't see the progression to where he got to the point he claims he did
i don't think the questions he asked actually led him anywhere nor do i see places where they changed his perspective, and the way he went about asking them felt performative for the sake of looking like he was investigating stuff
you're right that some of the read is gut, my post wasn't meant to be a mena case or anything it was just me explaining why i'm not very impressed by the thing that people seem to be clearing him off of, and why i think it's plausibly something he could do and may choose to do as scum
In post 1223, Menalque wrote:incidentally, the whole reason why this sold me on fire scum is not even that I don't believe his read on me (although I don't) but mostly the fact that this entire post is simultaneously trying to imply I'm scummy while making the explicit claim that it's not scummy but it's not clearing
the bolded is the most relevant bit because the "wowwww" part is heavily suggesting I'm scum, he's saying the overall thing is town but that I... wouldn't construct posts as town? but it's still lightly +town for me
it just makes no fucking sense
i don't think that anything i said contradicted myself, what doesn't make sense?
i was just recognizing the fact that you are less likely to want to put that kind of effort in as scum. i think its possible you would, but can understand the point that it is kind of a lot to cook up, so as a whole taking that action is lightly +town, but i think it doesn't make sense to treat it as clearing bc i have issues with how you went about it
the trajectory of it still makes me roll my eyes tho which is what the wowww is saying. that part i don't even think is scummy though, the part thats scummy to me is not being able to track the progression that you claimed to have had
i don't get how "you're treating this as clearing. it's scummier than that, and here's why i think so, but it's still lightly town" doesn't make sense to you
Then he addresses stuff other people have said about him. I think implosion misinterpreted what he said, it would have been an odd choice to not correct the misunderstanding. That post in response to Mena I can maybe understand scumreading but I feel like we're still well within the realm of like, plausible town behaviour
Spoiler:
In post 1234, fireisredsir wrote:
i am 100% trying to undermine the perception of you as town because i don't think the actions you've taken are as clearing as people are treating them as and i think it's dangerous to write you off as town for them
In post 1236, fireisredsir wrote:
i mean yeah im currently landing on the side of you being scum
i agree the convo is pointless bc i know you'd omgus as town too so it's not particularly helpful for me sorting you
In post 1239, fireisredsir wrote:
i know you'll say this doesn't make sense bc thinking a scumread has done something towny is crazy
but i do kinda think that it feels closer to a town omgus than a scum omgus for the most part
i am aware you're more than capable of faking that energy though so eh thats why i don't want to attempt to sort on that
In post 1244, fireisredsir wrote:
ill read that more in detail later but i don't think there's any reason that scum mena would feel threatened enough by me to feel like it was necessary to pull that out, even if i think he would be capable of it if sufficiently motivated
he just wouldn't need to
Finally he talks to Mena a bit more, explains his approach then backs down from the read.
In post 1431, Menalque wrote:
To those who worried the wagon on enchant was too easy yesterday — look how much more difficult the fire wagon is proving to be and there is a more meaningful effort to counterwagon onto skitt
still reading but I think this is an unfair point to make as fire is playing the game while enchant did something other than that
In post 1432, Aisa wrote:
Sounds like you're gonna *love* the wall I'm working on, Mena
If ur town can you please just vote fire and we can talk about skitter tomorrow
Look who else is on her wagon vs who is backing the fire wagon
I'm sorry, but I think I'm leaning more towards the counterwagon!
VOTE: skitter E-2
Re people on the fire wagon, when I consider their reasons for voting fire I find myself unconvinced I should be sheeping them. Here's what two of the people on that wagon are saying anyway:
Fireisredsir is being very reasonable but I'm not sure if that makes them town. But I my reasons to scumread their slot weren't that strong in the first place either.
I was townreading GuerillaWoo while they were here.
Ok if this is where we're going i'm just gonna say i would focus on fire + sheep tomorrow, i think that this wagon on me is rather scum-motivated, and i think thw two of them are where to start
I would appreciate if people listen to that after ^
Idk how much more i'm gonna be around before deadline
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
In post 1440, skitter30 wrote:
Also like mena said the fact that thjs is easy should be a red flag
how is it easy
ive been the default assumed lim for a while now and for a bit i just kinda had the mindset of solve things before i go down bc it seemed like nobody wanted to reconsider and several people were barely playing
it took a while for people to shift towards you and it's still not like it's guaranteed or anything
ahhh idk i have doubts when i read things like skitter's latest posts
but the thing i keep coming back to is that
i always have doubts like that. skitter has seen it. there's no way that she should think that a lack of conviction on a read is scummy for me. especially when there's an extremely obvious reason why someone should reconsider their read on the person
like she said herself that the mena post was good and very towny
so why is it scummy for me to recognize that, especially when she knows that i almost never have conviction in anything
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
like if its true you were just busy and moving (gl with the move btw) and weren't able to engage with the thread like you usually do then im sorry and in that case you're probably right on sheep
but that conviction thing + framing the previous game as me being unable to read you when it's literally the opposite of that is just. hard for me to see you believing those things as town
In post 1446, skitter30 wrote:
I don't think you should have found him scummy in the first place
Yes his big post was townie - it took you a while to admit that tho
In post 1244, fireisredsir wrote:
ill read that more in detail later but i don't think there's any reason that scum mena would feel threatened enough by me to feel like it was necessary to pull that out, even if i think he would be capable of it if sufficiently motivated
